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Comments
-mike
Thanks.
;-)
(hopefully, full of January issue ladies!)
Back on topic, I'm not sure you are gonna do well with a lease on a sorento, the residual values will be horrible, especially on a first year product.
-mike
I don't plan on buying the vehicle once the lease is up, so.... maybe that'll help, I don't know.
Can any owner report on RPM/MPH numbers.
Like RPM @ 60 MPH
RPM @ 70 MPH
RPM @ 80 MPH
Trying to get a feel for what the noise levels are like at freeway speeds, I do about 100 miles round trip per day, mostly freeway.
That is what test drives are supposed to be for.
When I test drive, I TEST DRIVE!
That means panic stops on the freeway 70-0, acceleration 0-100, cornering, fording snowy streams, cornrows at 10-25 MPH, climbing mountains, loading boxes, etc., etc., etc.
Put that puppy through its paces.
-mike
I have only been for two test drives where they don't just throw you the keys and say "take it out".
-mike
I have to tell you, the ride and handling are VERY different on the two. The Outlander drives like a car and is very quiet and comfortable. Also, the dash is very rich looking and the ride height is perfect... you slide right in. I was totally shocked because I haven't read much about it other than it being attacked for having 'only' 140hp. But while not as powerfull as the Kia V6, it was no slouch. The motor makes a lot of twisting power down low... HP is not the only number to look at here... this motor is torquey. My CEO (that's really funny!!!) likes the look of both but since we NEVER go off road and are looking for something good in snow and rain, the idea of full-time AWD for around $20,000 tilts us in the favor of the Mitsubishi. Not to say the Kia is a bad vehicle.... it's awesome... but unless you NEED 4WD LOW, there is no real advantage to the vehicle.... particularly at $27000 by the time you add the Outlander's features and ABS. I didn't even know the Mitsubishi was out honestly and 140hp sounds low but it handles a lot better than the kia and the CEO and I didn't find it underpowered at all. It seems like the reviewers nowadays trash anything that can't do 0-60 in 6 seconds. it's worth a look.
The 140HP makes it sound sluggish and not worth a look, but I've been reading (and you also) that the torque makes up for it kicking in at 2500RPM. Kia Sorento is good and have come to kick butt, but I'm still debating on price. We'll see... I'll give my feedback once I test drive. So Kia, any AWD option coming...?
-mike
I forgot about the TOD (whatever that means)... Anyway, the 4WD and AWD w/TOD is confusing.......care to explain?!
TOD on the upper/middle model = RWD or 4wdTOD or 4 Low
On the TOD models you can have it in RWD exclusively or if it's in TOD mode you have AWD, where the transfer case will put 15% power to the front wheels >5mph and will vary it up to 50/50 torque split (similar to the subaru AT AWD system, except with a RWD bias instead of the subaru FWD bias)
Also anytime slippage is detected it will shift the power as well (so below 5mph it will shift if there is slippage)
4 Low on the TOD model locks it in 50/50 split and gives you low range.
So TOD mode = AWD mode with a std 15/85 torque split and will vary up to 50/50 split.
-mike
What a wonderful world!!! I guess those will stick with you, ey???
Best regards from my wife, the CEO,
yours very truly,
carspy01
Executive Vice President of Garbage Disposal
Ok....back to subject:
Thanks Paisan for the detailed info. Question... what does TOD mean? I understand the concept but does the letters have any definition?
How's about $390 for a Wax Job
$390 for Interior protection
$350 Insurance policy, in case your car is stollen, they pay $2500 towards the deductable, what a DEAL!
How about the Trailer hitch, the KIA branded one with a retail price of $375, for such a deal, $780.00
There was some other stuff that they had stuck on like bug defectors and other stuff, also way over priced.
All up about $2500 worth of "stuff".
Sales guy did say they are about three weeks behind on shipments, which is how long the docks were closed.
I don't care how good a car is, I don't and won't buy one from dealers that try this stuff, tells you what they will be like in the future.
Consideration 1) You buy a Kia for the perceived value/price ratio. Lots of features, lower cost than the mainstream makers, with probably a lower resale value and some amount of risk the company will be around in 5/10 years and that the car is a quality built product.
An EX 4x 2 Sorento with all the goodies stickers for ~$24,000, fits the value/price requirement.
10/100,000 mile warranty address to some extent the protection of your investment over the “Long Haul” .LOL.
Consideration 2) Kia Resale value will not be the same as the major makers, real or just perception KIA’s don’t hold value like a Honda, or other brands. This may change over time, but that’s reality today.
Consideration 3) GM and Ford are pretty much blowing out their cars, low finance and better resale value than KIA along with some good deals on SUV’s right now. Cars Direct shows an Envoy nicely loaded for ~$30,000, or $5,000 more than a Sorento at sticker.
Seems KIA dealers are getting greedy and blowing the best selling point of the KIA, more bang for the buck.
I really like the Sorento, but West Coast dealers are making it really hard for me to take the risk by buying a KIA. Close to invoice, yep, overpriced by greedy dealers, I don’t think so, the risk/reward ratio is just not good.
Anyone ?
They become just as bad as the Honda dealers once they realize they have something that people will pay a premium for.
The free market at work...sigh.
I went thru santa fe and elantra Gt board and looks like they played the same game when they first came out. Most of the kia dealers are multi brand vehicle dealer so I don't think its specific kia dealer related. I have said it in the past, as long as dealers sense they can get msrp or above, they will not budge until market conditions change.
If you can afford to wait than just wait until they start discounting. The vehcile is still new so I think most dealers are still testing the market.
On a side note, anyone else notice just how ugly the steel wheel and tires are on the LX version?
With my experience on asphalt and concrete I'm concerned about what a harsh experience I would encounter if I were to take a Sorento off of pavement! The thing was so bad that after ten minutes I even started to feel a little queasy....
Has anybody else experienced a harsh ride in one?
Oh, the dealer had about $2000 in rustproofing and scotchgarding which was described as "Group A" on the dealer's window sticker. Didn't even both trying to haggle based on my ride experience and I just don't deal with those kind of salesmen. Basically, I stopped by to check the vehicle out and go for a test ride.
Will look to lease or purchase in late December or early January -- could be a Sorento, or something else. By the way, the salesman claimed that Kia does not offer a lease program.
-mike
I'd not pay more than $100-120 for a hitch, installed. I bought a new bumper with integrated receiver hitch, for less than $200!
-mike
TOD = AWD TOD IS available in the US.
Go to Kiasorento.com Look under the Luxury package. It clearly lists TOD AWD there.
-mike
Look up a Honda CR-V on Edmunds and you'll see it's listed as 4WD too. But it's really 2WD, not even AWD, as power shifts from the front wheels to the back wheels, but never are the 4 wheels all spinning at the same time.
-mike
Besides, what's the problem with RWD/4WD anyhow? I live in Taxachusetts. If you start slipping so bad in RWD, shift it into 4WD.
The TOD just does this for you automatically. No problem! (Alf.)
diploid - I'll have to disagree about the CR-V. It's normally front wheel drive, until front slippage occurs (relative to back) and the Real-Time 4wd system delivers torque to the rear wheels in addition to the front wheels. There is no mechanism to stop torque from going to the front wheels. The only variable is how much torque goes to the rear.
I've confirmed this myself, stuck in deep snow, front and back tires spinning at the same time.
That's not the case. What TOD does is put 15% power to the front wheels once you start moving, this way you are less likely to slip in the first place. The std torque split on TOD is 15/85 and it will use clutch plates in the transfer case to vary it up to 50/50 depending on which axle has more traction. The Sorento also has a rear LSD which will apply the power to the rear wheel that is not slipping.
-mike
Some insurance companies dictate where test drives can occur and what streets and intersections to avoid. Your salesperson may have just been following the rules (and could have saved everyone some grief by saying so if this was the case).
Everyone all over Town Hall is jumping on salespeople today, but you only have to put up with them a few hours. I'd suggest ignoring the crap and focus on the car until you decide to talk numbers, or just ask for a different person to help you.
/rant
Steve, Host
Streets? I thought you were talking about test driving SUV's here!
;-)
And what choice does the dealer have anyhow, when he's sitting behind his desk and you are out on the test drive?
OK. With you so far....
"... You cannot drive a car in 4WH or 4WL on dry pavement as the front and rear wheels are locked and are forced to rotate at the same speed (a problem when turning the wheel....)"
Why would you WANT TO put it in 4hi or 4 lo on dry pavement? You lost me on that one.
"...CR-V's, Santa-Fe's, Escapes and others for thousands less... and they all have independent suspension and are front wheel drive primarily."
Yeah, but those are a totally different CLASS of vehicle. They have no low range, and the independent suspension is a liability, not a plus for serious SUV work. Front wheel drive is another minus. What kind of towing capacity again?
Now, if you go off road alot, well, 4WD is the vehicle for you. But if you don't... and like I said, most don't (they drive on the road like any other car) then independent suspension and Front wheel drive are awesome as you get a car-like ride. As for independent suspension, ask owners of 2003 explorers, expeditions and navigators about their ride vs. the ride of 2001 models. On the Road, drive an explorer vs a trailblazer. The Chevy is great but the Explorer handles like a car.
AGAIN... if you need off-road capabilities, there is no substitution for 4WD... AWD is ok but not in extreme situations. However, if you drive on the road, maybe a light trail, some sand..... but mostly road.... the Sorento (or any other truck without AWD and Independent suspension) is not the best choice.
I see it differently than you on that one...
"... The reason I mentioned dry pavement is this: AWD is active all the time. If there's light rain, patches of snow..... ONE wheel slips on a patch of ice..... "
So? There are 3 others holding you to the road. If it is a drive wheel, just put it in 4wd to get unstuck. I don't require 4wd or even awd for rain! (rolls eyes)
"...all reasons AWD is great for general driving as it is on all the time and reacts instantly."
Haven't really been in those kind of in between situations. You either need it or you don't. I usually wait until I am spinning in 2wd and then go to 4hi. If the road is dry, I'm not spinning.
"... and like I said, most don't (they drive on the road like any other car) then independent suspension and Front wheel drive are awesome as you get a car-like ride."
So, why not just get a car then? Or 4wd van? You get all the benefit, and better space use and better MPG. ?????
"As for independent suspension, ...but the Explorer handles like a car."
Because it IS basically a car. (rolls eyes again!)
It has a FRAME so you can put more weight on it, it will handle a towing load better, it will put up with city street abuse better etc. It's wider than the cute-utes. Higher ground clearance.
-mike
If you don't want a truck, then don't look at the Sorento.
-mike
The Sorento is NOT a small SUV. It is a Midsizer packaged in a smaller wrapping, kind of like what Dodge did with the Durango, only the Durango is slightly bigger.
A few days ago, some of the people bashing dealerships were reflecting nostalgically on the ‘good-old-days’, when every new car came with a full tank of gas. Well, right there on the window sticker, on the left hand side as the last line under “Standard Features”, in bold type and upper case letters, is this notation: “EVERY NEW KIA INCLUDES A FULL TANK OF GASOLINE”.
After spending less than 3 days with our new Sorento, I can say that it is everything we expected AND MORE!