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Sports Wagons - The wave of the future?



  • mayberryguymayberryguy Posts: 145
    There is no way the Magnums can compete with Legacy GT in the handling department. I will take a better all around car any day than one that is only faster in a straight line. The Magnum has to handle like a tank judging from it's size and F/R balance.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    Well, the legacies of the Camaro, GTO, Mustang and Charger were forged in an era when foreign offerings weren't exactly tremendous alternatives, by and large, either. Yeah, there were imports that handled much better, but mostly had less reliable sewing machines under the hood, and people who actually enjoyed real driving used these and convinced themselves that as a whole they were better. Pretty small minority when you get down to it. Of course there were exceptions, like the E-Type and a few of the Italians, but exceptions they were, IMO.

    The later raping of those names should not be held up in evidence of actual foreign superiority at inception.

    As for today, going straight fast, on a consumer level, indeed takes less thought, sophistication and crafted equipment than real driving, I agree. But with regard to force-fed four-bangers, you can keep 'em, even the best of them. I may not need a Hemi, but four cylinders is still two shy of a real engine in my small, narrow-minded book! :-]

    As for the Magnum, I'm impressed overall with the direction DCX has taken here. Yeah, it's bulky, styled like a truck up front, too big to be seriously fun in the right ways and it's not a car I would ever buy for myself, but it's a great step forward for Dodge and frankly one of the better offerings I've seen of any US marque for its intended purpose.

    I think the comparo is silly at best, though.
  • juswheelsjuswheels Posts: 42
    I'm about to purchase a Maxx - Here's my respectful reasons why:

    I wanted good utility and safety features. An engine with a little energy and good gas mileage - Most who have posted about and rated the Maxx give it good marks for the mileage. It has received the JD Power award for quality and earned top marks, along with the Audi in a side impact crash test.

    This car has 4 wheel anti-lock disk brakes - Side Impact Air Bags - Traction Control - Remote Starter - V-6 - Adjustable Pedals - Great Utility - and all the normal stuff , Stereo, Air Power Windows, Power Locks etc. It rides much quieter than my Taurus and has more pickup. The power is smooth and the tramsnission shifts responsively. With the GM Discount and it still has a $2,000 rebate on top of that - This car, fully equipped, is $19,300 out the door and I think you would have to look quite hard to find a better value.

    I test drove the new G-6. It drove about the same as the Maxx and the styling was better than the Maxx. However the trunk is extremely small and access awkward. To have it equipped with side impact air-bags raises the cost about $2,000 more than the Maxx. Since both are built on the Saab framework, it's hard to justify the additional cost for what is mechanically, the same car.

    I also test drove the Hyundai Santa Fe and Mitsubishi Galant. The Hyundai was OK but is known for poor gas mileage and the handling, although secure was vague and a little sloppy. The brakes also had a slight spongy feel to them.

    The Galant really isn't in the same league with any of the above - It has a tempting warranty but to equip it with a V-6 and Anti-lock Brakes costs thousands more than the others. Anti-lock has to be purchased with an equipment package that contains many add-ons, you may not want and this package is expensive. Actually full side impact air-bags aren't even available on the Galant - There is an option (another equipment package) that gives you a smaller head protection side air-bag but this offers no protection to the torso.

    For me the choice was the Maxx - Very safe car, good handling, good mileage, good quality and a super price. Hard to beat it. Also cost per mile to operate it for 5 years is one penny more than the Accord and equal with the Camry. Just my respectful reasons for choosing the Maxx.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'd pick the Legacy for a curvy road, but the really long wheelbase on the Magnum ought to yeild a pretty comfy highway ride. Haven't driven one so feel free to add your thoughts.

    Maxx prices are great, I recall seeing one with rear DVD entertainment for under $20 grand. You'd probably spend $10 grand more for an SUV with that feature.

    The SS looks better, too.

  • enygma6enygma6 Posts: 35
    I purchases a Magnum RT nearly a year ago, and I do have to agree, it is quite a comfortable highway cruiser. I 'upgraded' from a '97 Impreza Outback Sport at that time, and had the Magnum not come to market, I would have gone for the new Legacy Outback.
    I personally don't need all of the space/power of the Magnum, but it is fun to have at times. It was the exterior styling that really caught my eye and had me watching and waiting for the Magnum since seeing pictures of the concept car a year earlier.
    While I did give up some of the fun on twisty roads with the Impreza, the Magnum is definitely more comfortable when relaxed driving is called for, and it can still hold it's own when needed. It's also much quieter at highway speeds as well (~2,000rpm at 70mph -- a definite advantage of the V8), and the gas mileage isn't much lower than what I had been getting with the Impreza.
    It does weigh almost 1.5 times as much, but with 2.5 times the horsepower, the Magnum is no slouch (no marshmallow suspension, either -- this was a key item I had to check in the test drive). The weight and RWD configuration (I didn't wait for AWD) definitely do cut into the handling a bit (lots of mass = lots of momentum), so I have to take it a bit easier on the twisties, but it's definitely cruising in style.
  • krzysskrzyss Posts: 849
    "2.5 times the horsepower"

    Let's look

    WRX Sti 300 -> 750
    Legacy GT 250 -> 625

    I do not think that Magnum R/T has that much power. Even Viper might have problems.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 27,625
    he said 2.5 times the power of his impreza, NOT an STi or Legacy GT.

    '19 Ioniq plug-in, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 50-car history and counting!

  • krzysskrzyss Posts: 849
    I thought he is comparing Magnum with new cars not old one.

  • 1997montez341997montez34 NJ, USAPosts: 202
    137hp x 2.5 = 342hp. The Magnum has 340, so we'll spot him the 2hp.

    Don't forget 390 lb. ft. of torque to move you out quite smartly.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The 2006s have 173hp in the base engine now, not bad for starters. It's a light/small car.

  • cwesleygcwesleyg Posts: 64
    It looks like a monster... but that area under the hatch is very small... the cool styling sacrificed a lot of space. Externally it sizes up with the Freestyle, not the Legacy. I'll take my Malibu Maxx... second choice Pontiac Vibe. the Audi A3 is cool looking though and proabably will hold up well. Subaru makes nothing but ugly cars. The WRX STI is very fun to drive... but what a dog!
  • cwesleygcwesleyg Posts: 64
    My buddies 1984 IROC Z28 cornered like it was on rails... Eagle GT's... it was fast and fun. More recent versions of the Camaro... 1999 Z28 w/ LS1 and 6 speed handle just as well, and none of your sport compacts at comparable price could even think of keeping up with it... no way, no how. And if you want to dump a lot of cash lets compare your favorite entry with any late model Corvette.
  • cwesleygcwesleyg Posts: 64
    And made in the USA...
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    I think it looks like a hot rod.

    check the link

    Magnum RT
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I don't see how that fits into a thread about sport wagons. Those were barely a 2+2. And the Corvette? :confuse:

    Camaro was great in a straight line, but throw some curves at it...last time I went too Summit Point on a track day the live axles were the ones sliding off at the carousel.

  • cwesleygcwesleyg Posts: 64
    Read 459 and then 471 makes sense in that context... probably haven't driven the cars I've mentioned or you would not have made the "in a straight line" comment... "84 and "99 Camaros corner extremely well...

    Summit Point huh... most of us drive on actual roads...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    With curves, I presume? ;)

  • Compacts are where it's at.

    Yes they are until you get creamed by a larger vehicle. :surprise:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You can't play that game, though, else we'd all be driving around in Excursions. There's always something out there bigger than you.

    Size is one factor, but not necessarily as important as many people think. Look at my Miata, for instance, tiny as it is the actual death rates are average, no worse. Then look at Corvettes, Mustangs, and Camaros - horrible death rates, far worse than average.

    Driver demographics have a bigger effect, by far, than the size/weight of the car.

  • yes when was the last time you saw a minivan throwing it sideways around the corner? ok ok i promise to stop doing that.

    juice it is also what the vehicle invites you to do. i am sure you bring more speed to your miata because it invites you versus the forester which does not enjoy high speed cornering. i notice my personality changes depending on the vehicle setup.

    in the minivan, the handling makes me drive really sane. the forester xt makes me have fun in bad weather and straight line acceleration. my supercharged mr2, well it just brings out the devil in me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm actually much more likely to drift in the Forester because it's easier to control, plus I do it in the snow where it's not ruining the tires.

    The Miata will snap to oversteer if you let off the throttle and aren't very careful, since it's harder to control.

    We got some snow so I did some tail-wagging in the Forester just yesterday. :D

  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    I am ashamed to admit that I was doing 4 wheel drifts with opposite lock in the snow with my old minivan (first gen Odyssey). Sure is a lot of fun with snow tires.

    Warning though - I tried it once with snows on just the front, and that really makes the vehicle tail happy. The back tires constantly want to pass the front. I would never advise anybody to use just two snows on a fwd vehicle - must use 4.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Were the kids in the van?


This discussion has been closed.