Did you recently rush to buy a new vehicle before tariff-related price hikes? A reporter is looking to speak with shoppers who felt pressure to act quickly due to expected cost increases; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com for more details by 4/24.
Sports Wagons - The wave of the future?
They seem to be becoming more popular.
More useful than a sedan while only losing a little in performance. I hear they are popular in Europe, but I've never been there.
Audi has a wagon (avant) version of the S4 and S6 and the sports car beating RS4 (and an RS6?).
BMW has a wagon 330 and 540, and used to have an M5 wagon in Europe I believe.
Mercedes has a C32 wagon in Europe, not sure what else.
Does anyone else see these sort of cars coming here, and becoming popular?
Hopefully more popular than SUVs.
More useful than a sedan while only losing a little in performance. I hear they are popular in Europe, but I've never been there.
Audi has a wagon (avant) version of the S4 and S6 and the sports car beating RS4 (and an RS6?).
BMW has a wagon 330 and 540, and used to have an M5 wagon in Europe I believe.
Mercedes has a C32 wagon in Europe, not sure what else.
Does anyone else see these sort of cars coming here, and becoming popular?
Hopefully more popular than SUVs.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Stephen
also the is300 sportcross. i'm sure there are more.
just looking for some comments on my "wave of the future" theory.
Stephen
i think that there are a lot of really cool sports sedans. and i think more to come.
i'm hoping to get some more responses.
i have an s4, sedan. this weekend i was looking at the 2002 a4. however, i didn't really like the look too much. but the a4 avant(wagon) looked good. and it is more practical and gives up so little in performance.
Stephen
for the current s4, i like the looks of the sedan better, a little, but not of the current a4.
plus, as i'm sure you'll agree, a wagon is more useful.
if i had more money than i needed (is that possible?) i'd love to have an audi s6 (only a wagon here in the u.s.). and then some smaller "sports car" for the weekends. pretty cool when the family hauler wagon (not that i have a family) can haul like a sports car when you want it to.
I would love an Integra (RS-X)wagon that maintains the character of my car. Too bad honda doesn't make a Civic SI wagon, or Toyota a Corolla wagon with improved handling (I know they have the matrix - but it is so ugly). I really like light tossable vehicles that handle well and get good gas mileage. Right now the Jetta is probably the closest match out there for me - I am even intrigued by the diesel engine.
Probably the most convincing reason for me was that I like the looks of the wagon better than the sedan. IMHO, I feel the designers kind of left the design studio early when it came to the rear of the WRX sedan. It's too early Kia like for me (read uninspired/bland). The wagon was also $500 cheaper which easily can go to a mods budget. For example, the wagon comes w/a 17mm rear sway bar instead of the sedan's 20mm. I bought the 20mm for the sedan as it fits the wagon no problem. The cost w/tax was about $96. This is one of the biggest bang for the buck mods on the WRX wagon. I still had $400 left from the savings over the sedan. I bought the OEM body colored rocker panels (side sills) for $250 and a Whiteline 22mm front sway bar (to replace the 20mm one) for $112. Leaving about $30.
Anyhow, the wagon's con is that it weighs 85 lbs more than the sedan resulting in a couple 10ths less in the 0-60 times/1/4 mile times. I still get below 6 secs to 60mph if I slip the clutch a bit vs 5.7 or so w/a sedan.
To wrap this long rambling testimonial up, once I did the math I realized the wagon was the way to go for me. I see parallels w/other sportwagon vs sport sedan comparos to my scenario. Go sportwagons! :-)
Stephen
I have owned Utes and several sedans, but I prefer fast wagons. Utes bite! Sedans do not offer the room necessary for my family and my toys. Sport wagons are the perfect combo. I love the functionality of a wagon, but I want it to move. Why should wagons be boring? Just because your practical does not make you dead.
I love the WRX, but it is to small to ever be considered a true family wagon. Even the Legecy is a bit on the small side when you add gear into the equation. If Acura had a TL Type-S Estate version of the sedan I would have snapped that up in a second.
I feel that the U.S. is ready to move in the direction of sport wagons, but it will be slow to take off. Let's face it, even the WRX still has a pretty small following. This car rocks and deserves to be in every driveway in the world. It's size is the only drawback. America is still in love with large lumbering in your face Utes. It appears that we would rather plow through waves than ride them. What a shame. Surfing is way more fun than piloting an oil tanker.
Stephen
I think the WRX has really turned folks on to the joy of wagoning. Europeans have had them for years. I know that some of the more expensive alternatives, like Volvo and Audi, have provided great wagons for a number of years, but more reasonable priced models like the WRX (and even the Impreza Outback Sport), as well as the Mazda Protege 5, are now in the mix. And more are on the way. I think folks are realizing that you can have the handling of a sport coupe with the practicality of a wagon, and power too, all in one good looking package.
I've always thought the idea of a "hot rod" wagon was a great one. And now we're getting them Bring em on, I say.
volvo, left them out for some reason. plenty of nice volvo wagons.
i think audi has the performance wagon edge right now, in the u.s. but plenty others are coming along. and this is at the higher price range.
the lower price ranges include many hatchbacks, which i don't really know much about. and of course the wrx, a STEAL at the price they charge.
though quite small for a family.
but the wrx and the s4 are, as audi says, like sports cars with a fanny pack.
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
Perhaps in a discussions such as "sedans you're waiting to see" or in other similar topics, people might have an interest in this subject. You could also and copy and paste the url/link, to this discussion, in your message. Btw, here's the proper url to (copy/paste) use:
/direct/view/.ef09472
Hope this is helpful. Good luck. ;-)
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
I was doing some checking on cars about three weeks ago. I was interested in the small 330i model as a replacement. I asked the salesman to let me drive the all-wheel drive model to compare with the RWD I had just tested. He only had a wagon model with a smaller engine(325xiT)available. He thought at least it would give me the feel of the AWD. Neither of us thought the wagon would have interested me. Wow! I was so pleased with the small wagon's capability (for our practical purpose) and its beautiful look, I decided to shop for a sport wagon instead. After checking out the Audi A4 3.0 Avant and the Lexus Spotcross. I ordered the BMW 325xiT. Since the BMW wagon has the smaller engine as the only choice, I am willing to compromise on the power in exchange for the wagon's versatility, nice look and the AWD setup. Is it a trend? I don't know. I am very happy that BMW has offered this SW choice of the right size for my needs. Now the waiting begins.
The other thing I am happy with is that the trend seems to be in every market niche; on the lower end of the spectrum you have the Focus and Protoge all the way up to the Uber Priced machines.
i really expect to see more sports wagons and hatchbacks in the next few years. at all price levels.
What defines a sportscar? Is it different for a sportswagon? To me, any wagon that doesn't have fake wood paneling and seating for 12 in the back seat alone is pretty much a sportwagon, even though it would be easy to say that a wagon with under 200hp is not a sportswagon.
To me, a wagon doesn't have much of a slope on its back. A gently sloped tailgate is to me a fastback so I call the ZX5, Aerio, et al fastbacks not wagons. The P5 is more of a tiny wagon than a fastback to me as it has a near vertical rear door.
To me, crossovers have to cross over to an SUV or minivan. Crossing over to a sports car is not a cross-over, it is just a sportswagon or sporty fastback. To me, a crossover is defined by the ground clearance, step-in height and overall vehicle height. It is a cross between a low car-like vehicle and a tall SUV or minivan-like vehicle. AWD is not necessary, IMO, for a vehicle to be a crossover.
Are sportswagons the wave of the future or crossovers? I think crossovers will do better, at least on this side of the pond. Wagons are still a tiny portion of the market, with I think under 400000 sold last year in north america for all models while the best selling SUVs sell over a million for each model. Most people don't need an SUV but sort of want one so I think crossovers will sell well to that market. Sportswagons are still more for people who want a car that is more practical and useful, and who want the more refined ride of a car rather than the high riding pretend-offroad suspension of an SUV.
As for power, well I don't think there is really a minimum here. The Audi A4 is definitely a sport wagon, but up until recently new ones might have had as little as 150 hp (now minimum of 170 I believe). Likewise, I think that the Protege5, if we call it a wagon, could definitely be considered a sport wagon despite only 130 HP simply because it is so much fun to drive.
I would even take it one step farther and say that handling feel is even more important than absolute grip. It is about the feeling not the numbers.
-juice
and apparently the answer is...
NO!
or maybe it's...
who cares?
My wife always wanted wagons; our first was an old Ford ltd woody; we did move to minivans, but after the kids left, we're back to wagons. She won't have anything else. Have gone through two maxima wagons, the Volvo 850 turbowagon, and now have the Outback VDC for her and the WRX wagon for me.
The moral of this is that (IMHO) mid size sportswagons will remain a niche market with the family haulers remaining as the minivans, the (ugh) SUV's and the crossovers. Most women want to be high, not fast. However, I think the little wagons a4,WRX's etc might catch on as a growing market.
Sorry for the long post. Interesting question and it's too cold to play golf today.
Mike
They're built on car platforms. Manufacturers are making them slightly taller and promoting them as "suvs", "crossovers", "sport tourers", "urban activity vehicle"... can you think of any other terms? Anything but what they really are: station wagons. ;-)
Btw, in case people weren't aware, Edmunds' refers to the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix as "sport wagons" in their new Vehicle Pricing guide.
To jdbtensai- To respond to some of your posts. We have many discussion here that will have no activity for quite some time, then all of a sudden things will pick up.... I've been hanging around message boards for quite some time, and I've yet to figure out the mystery of what makes some discussions popular or not....
I wouldn't spend too much time worry about it though. Most of the discussions here, including this one, are set by default to automatically close/move into our Archived discussions folder if no one posts a message in 45 days (or so). Once a message is posted, the cycle starts over... at the beginning.
And now back to the subject of Sports Wagons. Talk to everyone later. ;-)
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
We may get a turbo Forester when that comes out.
-juice
Thanks for starting this board. I love wagons and hatchbacks, and I HATE SUV'S!! I was car shopping last year, looking for something used in the $5,000 range. I was very discouraged to find that there were very few small wagons and hatchbacks out there. The car companies abandoned the wagons at some point, I suppose due to poor sales. And I blame it all on minivans and suv's. Most people use suv's as stationwagons anyway, so why not drive a wagon? I guess they don't look cool enough. I'm hoping that the new trend in sportwagons will change all that.
Toyota dropped the Camry wagon, but you can't blame them when they're selling Highlanders at much higher prices. Honda ought to bring back a wagon, though. The CR-V isn't really sporty, and the Pilot won't be either. Europe gets a nice Accord wagon with some interesting variations.
-juice
Stephen
What most people don't even realize is that wagons have evolved. Station wagons used to have full frames, big guzzling engines, and live axles. Kind of like many of today's SUVs. ;-)
But now they are unibody in design, with high tech efficient engines, and independent suspensions. They are sportier than some coupes were back when the older wagons were popular.
-juice
The trend is definitely toward sportswagons. Look at all the new vehicles that are coming out now. Most of them are wagons, and expect more to come out in the next few years. I think wagons are the most versatile vehicle you can buy.
You probably mean PT Cruiser, Matrix, Vibe, Aerio, and Protoge5. Lots of nice choices. I'd like to see more mid-size choices, too.
-juice
OK, then I blame the SUV buying public, and the car companies. Most SUV drivers have bought into this "SUV's are safer" ruse. And the car companies just love the larger profits they make off of SUV's.
I just want people to buy more wagons. Higher wagon sales this year will mean even more wagon choices next year. Sportwagons are a step in the right direction.
When they started downsizing cars the wagon lost that multipurpose ability and a person was "Forced" to look for another vehicle. You had to have a Truck to haul anything of any size and a Car for every day use. Today you will still need two vehicles if you own a boat or jet skis or even a camping trailer. Because of that wagons cannot expect to ever regain their place as a substitute for an SUV or Truck. Their biggest inroads would most likely come from Sedans. Here is where the new breed of wagons will have a problem becoming the next wave. If you buy a "sport" wagon and you have a boat you will still need a Truck. If you have a truck anyway what does the extra space in the wagon get you? I have a truck for hauling so a wagon is a reasonable option for me. I have a hard time putting "sport" next to a heavier version of most people's sedan. I would get a wagon because I want a bit more room. However if I could only afford one Vehicle a wagon just wouldn't do. Not for me and not for many of the 4.5 million SUV drivers today. I think I once read that wagons once were about 20 percent of the total car market in the US, today they are supposed to represent about 2 percent. If they get back to that point we would have plenty of choices. I am sure they will make a comeback, I just don't know if I would call it a wave?
Then there's this guy I work with who commutes in a Chevy Suburban. Seating for 8, but it's just him commuting. I asked him why, he said he goes camping once or twice a year. And he doesn't tow anything. I'm in Queens NYC, and parking is at a premium. He takes up the space of 1 and 1/2 cars, which means two.
I've asked several suv owners why they chose suv's. I usually get an answer like "they're safer" or "I like being able to see over everyone". I really love that one.
My point is this: of the 4.5 million SUV drivers today, most of them don't tow, don't offroad, and just don't need suv's. Wagons would suit them fine. I realize that you and many others need trucks, but come on! Wagons are ideal vehicles for most situations.
The silly thing is, if there weren't so many darned SUVs and minivans out there (mostly with one person in them 90% of the time) we wouldn't NEED to see over them. There is always going to be a taller vehicle out there unless you drive a real truck -- sometimes you just have to wait until you can see around a vehicle to make your left turn. I know it's annoying but it isn't the end of the world. Perhaps what we really need is an optional periscope???
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
-juice