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Sports Wagons - The wave of the future?

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Comments

  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    There was another discussion over in Future Vehicles that turned into a Dodge Magnum discussion. We have since re-titled it and categorized it for the Wagons board.

    2005 Dodge Magnum
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    I wouldrather have a small engine that acts big when needed - turbocharger. Than a large engine that acts small when needed - deactivation. Just more efficient that way.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Same here.

    Look at the WRX, 2.0l turbo, fast as a banshee when you need it and 20/27 mpg with an LEV rating when you don't.

    Beat that with a V8 and DOD. Reliably.

    -juice
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    Actually you can almost beat that without deactivation. A Corvette gets EPA 19/28. : ^ )

    I still prefer the small engine approach in theory, but they tend to never put in a relaxed top gear (while Vette is about 1,400 rpm @ 60 mph)and that hurts highway MPG.

    Of course the AWD hurts the Subaru as well. In FWD form it would do a little better MPG wise.

    The 05 legacy is supposed to have better fuel mileage - maybe that will trickle down/over to other models.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Corvette uses the 1-4 skip shift feature, which is probably the first thing I'd disable if I got one.

    I bet if you survey owners the city mileage is in the mid teens at best.

    A tall 6th does allow for relatively efficient cruising, though.

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    "Corvette uses the 1-4 skip shift feature, which is probably the first thing I'd disable if I got one."

    The CTS-V does this as well. But the only way I know of disabling it is to run 1st gear to about 40 mph!!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Hee hee. I'm sure there's a way to turn that off.

    1st to FOURTH? C'mon, I'd just manually shift to 3rd or something.

    -juice
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    Skip shift is a drag, but with 350 hp you don't have to be going very fast to still have decent response in 4th gear.

    I think starting off in second gear disables/bypasses it as does going from 1 to 3. Never driven a Vette, so I don't know how doable that is.
  • does anyone know if grey will be the only leather colour choice in the magnum? i have to know ahead of time so i can dye my pitbull's hair the right colour. seriously though, does anyone know? all i see is the same picture of the interior all the time.
  • ballisticballistic Posts: 1,687
    Why would anyone care about the Magnum?
  • because it's a great looking vehicle with a great big V8, all wheel drive, and lots of space to stash my board, amp, and guitars, and possibly one bony ballistic body, that's why. :P
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Please ask your question in the Magnum discussion...since you are posting there already, I know you know the way...
  • ballisticballistic Posts: 1,687
    Big V-8s are good. All-wheel drive is good. Lots of space? Remains to be seen, but the roofline slopes down so much at the rear that nothing large or bulky will fit inside, defeating the point of a wagon body.

    And great looking? Egad. It's one of the worst-styled bodies from Chrysler Corporation in the last 40 years. Bulky, blunt, non-aerodynamic nose, bolt-upright windshield, tiny sideglass thanks to too-high bodysides, excessive and contrived detailing, and on and on.

    I've been a Chrysler fan for decades, but with this new generation, they've completely lost their touch.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Because they can say Yes when people ask that thing got a Hemi?

    Like it or not, the Hemi alone is a big selling point.

    Headroom is actually OK, my only problem with them is visibility is poor.

    -juice
  • those are exactly the reasons why i like it. i like it because it's not a design slavishly kneeling at the altar of the almighty areodynamic coefficient. i want a tank, and i'm going to reupholster the entire interior of my black hemi awd magnum tank in blood red leather.
    now you can hear the song on the radio.
  • Jason5Jason5 Posts: 440
    If you want to see the different interior colors--which don't differ dramatically--visit the Dodge.com site and use the "Build and Price" feature. You'll be able to change colors for exterior and interior.
        Ballistic...let's wait a bit and see. The cubic footage exceeds that of the Intrepid--which is certainly roomy. I own one so I know of what I speak. Having seen a Magnum in person at the Philly auto show--I believe the rear will prove useful for carrying certain items. I am rather a fan of the Intrepids cab-forward styling. Frankly I would have rather seen a new, updated LH chassis, powertrains and transmissions. However, on balance, Mercedes E-class inspiration "ain't too bad". And remember that those blunt looking E-class sedans of the 80's and 90's still had good drag coefficients..
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    << And great looking? Egad. It's one of the worst-styled bodies from Chrysler Corporation in the last 40 years. >>

    Hide the women & children! JB and I agree on this design fiasco! :)

    Bob
  • ballisticballistic Posts: 1,687
    The cubic footage exceeds that of the Intrepid--which is certainly roomy.

    Does the cubic footage calculation take into account that the Magnum is a wagon, and there never was an Intrepid wagon? (sigh, sob, too bad).

    I own one so I know of what I speak.

    I have a Concorde, and have loved it since day one.

    I believe the <Magnum> rear will prove useful for carrying certain items.

    No doubt, but what it will hold will certainly be more restricted than if the body shape had been designed form-before-function, instead of style (which, in this case, I intensely dislike)-way-before-function.

    I am rather a fan of the Intrepids cab-forward styling. Frankly I would have rather seen a new, updated LH chassis, powertrains and transmissions.

    Exactly. If your Intrepid is a late model, it is (IMO) the best-looking 4-door sedan ever built by any automaker. Even the prior generation, like my Concorde, is still very easy on the eyes. Both generations were among the best Chrysler (or anyone else) has ever designed. This new Daimler--influenced stuff is garbage by comparison.

    Mercedes E-class inspiration "ain't too bad".

    Nothing that looks even slightly like an M-B E-class will ever find its way into my garage.

    And that definitely includes the Magnum and the new 300. No more Chrysler products for this long-time Chrysler buyer until they come back to their senses.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They're sharing more and more parts and hoping the image will rub off a bit. Don't be surprised to see them selling fewer units at higher profits.

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Posts: 1,687
    ...the way these ugly new designs look, fewer units at lower profits! In other words, there won't be many takers for cars that look this bad, until they offer huge rebates.
  • the fewer they sell, the less i pay, the fewer i see on the road--all good for me.
  • The irony is that Chyrsler is not "stepping up" to the reputation of the Benz.... the Benz is being dragged down to the level of Chrysler. And that's the opinion of a die-hard Chrysler fan who has owned only Chrylser products for the last 2 decades. I took a look at the Pacifica and Magnum, and ended up buying a new Chevy Malibu Maxx instead, and for enough money that I could have had either DC product. I've been a detractor of the General for years.... not design and no inovation - well, they still need work on design (the Maxx is a box, no doubt about it), but DC really needs help, but there's enough inovation in the Maxx to keep me very happy. And what's with the 300C and Magnum..... and for that matter, the Pacifica - oversized boxy, bulbous and ugly with a capital "U". and a Hemi that lets 4 cyl. rest at highway speed - anyone who's owned a DC product in the last 10 years must realize that this fiasco is akin to the GM disaster of a few years ago with the Caddy 4-6-8 engine - it SUCKED! I'm starting to understand why Toyota is the biggest up and coming star on the automotive horizon. I'm still buying American, but it's getting harder and harder.
  • people should buy what they like. i happen to like the dodge magnum, the new mitsubishi galant GTS, the new subaru legacy wagon, and the new ford mustang GT. whether people think they're ugly, or stupid, or dusty is not really important. i'll decide when i take each one for a test drive and figure out how i feel behind the wheel.

    i'd include the mazda 6 wagon on my list, but there's something about it that doesn't quite sit right with me. but to each his/her own.
  • ballisticballistic Posts: 1,687
    definitely not on the Magnum. My prediction: With excessively-heavy vehicles that look as bad as these do, DaimlerChrysler is in for some very tough times until they return to bodies that look more like the current Intrepid.

    And that's coming from one who has been buying Chrysler products for 40 years.
  • there were so many loyal LH fans out there. a used 300M is a great deal imo.
  • Jason5Jason5 Posts: 440
    Ballistic... Because of my educational background, I tend to be data driven. I think you and I agree on far more about the current LH cars than we disagree. When I talk about E class inspiration--I mean technology and systems. A suspension and some other select systems inspired by Mercedes technology "ain't bad". If you are aware of automotive technology that's considerably better than that--please enlighten us all..
        The PASSENGER volume of the Magnum and 300C exceeds the 104.1 cu ft. of the Intrepid--not by much--but that still qualifies as a large car interior. The Magnum's "trunk" is about 28 cu. ft. as I recall--that's quite a bit larger than the 18.4 of the large Intrepid trunk. The deep opening APPEARS to offer much more utility than a conventional trunk.
         I was horrified by the sketches released a few years ago which previewed the 300. In the flesh they do look heavy--but not bad--just different. I'm not excited about the switch to rear wheel drive, but I AM excited about the option of AWD and a Hemi V-8. Frankly I find the comments about the Hemi and the Cadillac V8-6-4 to be without merit. Umm...25 years have past?...
         Maybe they ought to have used a modified Intrepid platform to create a new "mid size" Stratus replacement... Ah well...time marches on..
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    When a manufacturer changes directions in design, you're bound to see the buyers change. I'm not surprised one bit. If you liked the sleek, raked look of the Intrepid, you'll hate the blunt and boxy Magnum.

    DCX felt not enough people were buying Intrepids, so they changed the design to appeal to different people. And I do think the Stratus will grow to fill that FWD mid-size gap.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    I'm not a fan of RWD vehicles. The only saving feature about the new Magnum and 300C is that it will be available in AWD too. If it were not for that feature, I would say Dodge and Chrysler have clearly shot themselves in the foot.

    Here they have now spent two decades of selling the traction benefits of FWD, and are now going to tell customers who live in the snow belt that RWD is the way to go. If they didn't offer AWD, I'd say they're nuts.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think they're going to try to sell the Hemi V8 + RWD at an affordable price.

    Plus, they'll just grow the Stratus to fill the gap left by the Intrepid.

    -juice
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    It seems to me that the only competitor out there right now for the 300C is the Mercury Marauder. Considering its lackluster sales, one has to wonder how the 300C will do. It should do well if people like the styling, not if they don't.
This discussion has been closed.