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Sports Wagons - The wave of the future?

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Comments

  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    Funny about people thinking SUV's are safer. Look at the Consumer Reports auto issue (april) and you will see that they consider the Passat to be the safest vehicle available. They take handling, braking, comfort, ergonomics, crash test results, visibility etc into account. Most SUV's did not do so well in this report.

    Also (this may have changed now - not sure) SUV's and trucks (including minivans) do not have to meet passenger car safety requirements. Which means they aren't (maybe weren't) required to have airbags, side impact protection, rear center stop lamp etc. Many of these vehicles did adopt these things, but they are (were) not required.
  • automan227automan227 Posts: 118
    I also currently own a 2001 V70 T5 which my wife drives. My Wife wanted something that got better gas mileage then the toyota land cruiser that she was driving with a gas fill-up costing upwards of $40. Anyway, she didn't really care which version of the V70 that we got, but I did because there is a fairly good chance that I will end up driving it. So I ordered it with the T5 engine and automatic (wife can't drive a stick) tranny. The car is extremely fast, extremely safe and there is just enough room to fit all the kids in the second seat (got 3 of them).

    We will probably end up getting a Yukon XL or something in about a year when gas prices drop. Someone mentioned earlier about kids not wanting to drive what their parents drive. My Son absolutely loves this car. He recently became a volunteer firefighter and when he finally gets his junior license and will drive to respond to calls, this will be the car he drives.

    Just my 2 cents. Thought I might try to revive this discussion.
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,751
    We can all find reports that give evidence to our perceptions. Ralph Nadars Consumers group rated the L series Saturn as the safest mid sized car on the road. Believe me every Saturn dealer has that report on the wall. The safety issue is as much a perception as anything else. The NTHSA report on size and vehicle accidents in 1997 pretty much comes to the same conclusion as many SUV owners had. When a big car hits a little car the big car wins. When a SUV on a truck base frame hits a Car that is not the SUV is a battering ram and the car is an egg. Eggs do a good job of protecting their contents unless hit with said battering ram. This is also re-enforced when insurance companies insure trucks for less money because they receive less damage and injury in rear end accidents? What difference does that make one might ask? Well it seems as if they have decided that most accidents are rear end accidents and a ladder frame protects better in that particular instance.

    Automan

    It seems as if it has moved a bit. I think we can assume that compared to their Sedan siblings they are more Wagon than sport, and compared to their SUV big brothers they are more sport than wagon...I have no idea what they are compared to the crossovers.
  • automan227automan227 Posts: 118
    I agree with that. No matter how much safety gear is in a small car, a small car is still a small car. The laws of physics still and will always apply to that. Sure having the extra safety equipment is to your advantage, the smaller the car the better the chance of something bad happening in a severe accident.

    Anyway, I love my T5. Kids are starting to get a little cramped in it, but with gas prices approaching 1.70 for premium, they'll survive with a station wagon.
  • mstsscmstssc Posts: 89
    Is it really this simple? If so, can someone tell me how F1 drivers can catapult over other cars, hit barriers and other obstacles at 200-300 kph and walk away? It is because they weren't rear ended by an Excursion or is it safety design of the cockpit?

    I don't want to compare F1 safety design with the normal road car but the design intent is similar in some of todays road cars. Therefore, I wouldn't necessarily equate bigger is safer in todays designs.
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,751
    I agree. A car built with a full roll cage and seats molded to the driver with a safety helmet, neck brace and a price tag of between $500,000.00 to $1,000,000.00 should protect you from a rear end accident from an Excursion. I wonder if it has ever been tried? The NTHSA has tried the tests in 1997 and came up with the conclusion that the driver in the Excursion has a better chance than to one in a sub compact. But we drift off subject again.

    I am sure there will be more sports wagons in the future. I just don't know if it will be a wave.
  • porknbeansporknbeans Posts: 464
    My opinion kind of plays off of what boaz mentioned. I think people are looking for vehicles that are more sport than a minivan or a SUV. They are also looking at a vehicles that are more wagon than a truck or sedan. Marketing is the next big hurdle and that's because calling something a wagon is the "kiss of death" for sales. You see auto manufacturers going to great lengths to call a wagon anything but a wagon. The marketing knife has two edges though. One edge is how the vehicles are presented to the general public and the other is to the government and its' CAFE standards. The PT Cruiser is a prime example of how it's presented to the public as one thing and then to the government as another. If we are willing to see the crossover/sport tourers for what they really are (station wagons), and write off the auto industries tags to symantecs, we can call it a victory for the station wagon.

    You also are seeing the palette of wagons expanding just like those of sedans. As more and more people come back to the wagon, manufacturers are realizing that this platform can run the spectrum of sporty fun (Subaru WRX) to almost "truck" like (Acura MDX). A wider palette can only mean more markets for them to enter. More markets means more sales.

    I choose to look at it optimistically as a great opportunity to drive more wagons. So buck up camper, more wagons means more sport wagons to drive. See you in the dealers showroom. Vroom, vroom! ;^)
    Porknbeans

    Grand High Poobah
    The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
  • porknbeansporknbeans Posts: 464
    If you want to try and change the radio station or wipe your childs' nose strapped in a five point harness with 1" diameter metal pipe surrounding you good luck. F1 technology helps auto manufacturers in some regards but it's unreasonable to compare the safety of a F1 car to a typical passenger vehicle.

    Unfortunately safety of passengers is often a victim of cost cutting measures just like anything else. I've seen pictures of a MB E-class wagon in which the rear passengers were involved in a rear end collision. The roll cage and crumple zones transferred the energy around the passengers. MB is beyond the price point of most people but that price does buy a very safe vehicle. To MB's credit they do not often patent these techniques and many manufacturers have benefited from this. Regrettably, there are still some that do not.
    Porknbeans

    Grand High Poobah
    The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
  • If you want sport and zoom, check out the 2002 version of the Aero Wagon--250 hp, 238? torque, stiffer suspension, and better tires. It goes zoom. Now, if I could only afford it, as it goes around $37K. The linear goes for $31K. Reliability is also up with Consumer Reports for the 9-5 models since 1999. I don't know why Saab still sells for a discount. The car, while not AWD, gets great gas mileage--EPA 22 C, 30 H. When you look at the competition, particularly Audi and VW, it has much better reliability and also includes free maintenance for the first 30K.

    Anybody know where I can get an Aero Wagon cheap?

    (By the way, Boxerlover is about the dog, not the sport.)
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    Actually the overall safety I was referring to above was mostly about avoiding an accident in the first place. This is where a sportwagon would be much better than an SUV.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Right - there is active safety (collision avoidance) and then passive safety (energy absorption).

    Any how, for the most part newer unibody SUVs generally score better at passive safety than frame-based SUVs, so there's no reason to expect sport wagons won't do well at both, which is what makes an all-around safe car.

    -juice
  • mstsscmstssc Posts: 89
    Whos comparing F1 safety with todays passenger car? I even said in the post I wasn't comparing. The point I was trying to make is that the car design these days is based on protecting the passengers from harm with design and not mass like in the past.

    Therefore it is not always as simple as saying a bigger heavier vehicle is safer for the occupants than a smaller lighter vehicle.

    Yes I agree that safety comes at a cost and all the money in the world won't reduce risk to zero.

    BTW, some manufacturers are experimenting with 5 point harnesses. I think Saab is.
  • mstsscmstssc Posts: 89
    Still off topic a bit, but I looked it up. Saab is experimenting with a 4 point belt harness, not 5.
  • jscatenajscatena Posts: 61
    I have been considering a new Audi A6 4.2 but yesterday I drove the Audi S6 Avant wagon and I'm still walking around with a glazed-over look in my eyes. I've been fortunate to have owned some very nice autos. I currently have a 1999 Miata a 2000 Infiniti QX4 and a 2001 Maxima. This S6 Avant was the finest car I havbe ever driven. 340HP!, the famous Quatro system, ESP, NAV, luxurious interior, fat tires, sits low, rumbling V-8. Only 100 per month sent into the states. if you can find one, drive it!

    Jim
    [email protected]
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,751
    Did you drive it home and kick your other cars to the curb?
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,636

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • loujoloujo Posts: 12
    I just bought a BMW 323i Touring, best automobile I have owned so far, handles better than my wife's Audi A4 2.8Q. Don't see any point to buy a SUV.
  • mauislickmauislick Posts: 107
    wagons rock.....practicality and invisible to the police.......the audi 's' series are beautful sleepers and rockets to boot..............

    finally people are waking up to the beauty of the new millinium vehichle
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm waiting to see the 2004 Forester turbo, and then will likely choose between that and a WRX wagon. Wife just got a Legacy wagon.

    Once you've owned one it's hard to imagine going back to sedans.

    -juice
  • dtwleungnycdtwleungnyc Posts: 188
    I think there's a mis-conception out there that think station wagon are slow. I only have my A6 Avant under 2 weeks. But it seems every mini-van and sub-compact on the road is trying to pass me Thinking they are faster than me? 8)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think of wagons as sedans with a back-pack.

    -juice
  • porknbeansporknbeans Posts: 464
    I've talked to a gentleman on another thread who has a S6 Avant. I bet that not too many people can pass him. Your cars are awesome, like a wolf in sheeps' clothing. Nice analogy juice.
    Porknbeans

    Grand High Poobah
    The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
  • rickpctrickpct Posts: 71
    Have owned a Saab 9-5 for about one year now..best overall wagon in my mind, more cargo room than the V70 and A6, more passenger room than the Passat (although the Passat is not in same leauge as the saab/volvo/audi).

    Plenty of room for family, it's fast, and fun to drive...

    better yet..zero problems...not like the audi/volvo which have lots of electical gremlins...at least that's what i've heard...
  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Posts: 890
    No electrical gremlins here, after 20,000 miles! Just got back from a 400 mile fishing/offroading trip "up north" - the car towed beautifully, plus up to 8.2 inch ground clearance when the suspension is raised over the rough stuff. This is one versatile (and fast) vehicle!
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,636
    nearly 82k on my A4 Avant except a cooling fan motor that failed @77k (there's a backup fan).

    No mechanical gremmies either except a bad suspension bushing replaced under warranty.

    This '98 car still looks and runs like new.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    9-5 wagons are nice. My college buddy is dying to get one for his wife, but she won't bite on the idea of a wagon. Shame.

    Audi's Avants are among the most handsome wagons on the market. Actually make that vehicles, period.

    -juice
  • I just stumbled on this discussion and read the whole thing. Is everyone back from their summer vacations now? ;^) I hope so.

    I agree with you Juice. The A4 Avant (and the S4 Avant) is one beautiful car.

    As you can see I've been looking at the WRX, the wagon in particular (for all the reasons people have said they like wagons in this discussion). I've always liked wagons. Used to pine over the '91 Accord wagon, not sure why just liked the way it looked I guess. My first car was an '81 Civic wagon I bought with 190K on it. OK, I admit it was a total beater, but it served me well just out of H.S. and into College. You should have seen it all loaded down with skiis bikes and stuff as I drove it from home to college! LOL!

    Now I'm finally in a position to purchase a new one for myself and I'm having a hell of a time deciding. Then again I haven't done much test driving. Unfortunately, it looks like I'll have to wait a few months to check out some of the more attractive choices like the Mazda 6 and the Volvo V70R i've seen here on Edmunds in the Future sections.

    Anyone out there?

    -Ian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm still here, it has been quiet though!

    Did you see the WRX face-lift? Looks much better. I'm sure lots of people that held out due to styling might jump in now.

    You can see the rally prototype at swrt.com.

    -juice
  • Hi there. I'm finally buying a new car after 10 years in a Nissan Sentra. Not totally ready to give up a small manual car but it's time to go the wagon route with a spoiled dog and a baby on the way. I've narrowed it down to either the A6 or Volvo wagon. Any input would be greatly appreciated - I loved the bells and whistles nad the 4 years maintenance on the Audi but is it really worth the extra $$.
  • wrxsoon1wrxsoon1 Posts: 158
    Honestly, the bug-eyes are growing on me, but since I have to wait until late winter/early spring anyway (wedding first, then new car) I was hoping they'd bring over the new look sooner. I like it, looks very sharp! I don't think I can wait until '04 for the new look as the wait until Jan/Feb is already testing my resolve.

    I can see why some folks are saying the new look just makes it look like another car from Asia. I do think it will attract far more people who may have been turned off by the styling (is that a good thing?).

    -Ian
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    You should also try asking (copy/paste) your question in our Help me Select A Wagon discussion. Good luck with your decision.

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • IMO, two very nice choices. They both have their plusses and minuses and drive and ride slightly different from one another. I would take them both for a test drive and go with the one that you like better based on that. I feel that I should let you know that both of these cars will probably (not necessarily) spend more time in the shop than your Nissan did. You may also want to check out the Subaru Outback with the 6 cylinder engine. It is reliable, AWD, comfortable and several thousand dollars less than the Volvo and Audi.

    FWIW, I like the Audi better than the Volvo, however I don't have to write a check for it every month. :)

    Let us know what you decide and good luck.
    Porknbeans

    Grand High Poobah
    The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Ian: I agree. I like it better, but it's far less distinctive. The bug eyes will have a cult following, watch. In fact, the people that don't like the new look are mostly current owners.

    A6 or V70? Hmm. Audi knows AWD. Volvo is new to it (sort of). You get a V6 vs. a pumped up 5. And the styling is gorgeous.

    Then again, Volvo has the "safe" image and noone will think you're a snob for buying one. They're roomy and those built-in boosters are very cool. I can see going either way.

    Do peek at the H6 Outback. You can get an LL Bean for a little over $26k, and that's loaded up. The VDC is just under $28k. They just came out with an all-champagne monotone color for the H6 models, if you don't like the two-tone look.

    -juice
  • wrxsoon1wrxsoon1 Posts: 158
    LOL! I think you're right about there being a bug-eye cult. Maybe all the current owners could start wearing those huge Bono shades to match their cars. ;^)

    -Ian
  • thanks for all the ideas - i've gotten so obsessed with my decision i stop people on the street who are getting out of volvo and audi wagons. so far no restraining orders.

    i'm a little nervous that i just spent 5 days in tahoe and didn't see a single audi and every car that wasn't a suv or truck had the volvo tag.

    still thinking....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Here is another idea - have you considered European delivery? Check out Volvo's web site, prices are right there. You can save a bundle - enough to vacation for free, and drive your car in Europe while you're at it.

    A friend of mine researched this option and shared some info with me. The pricing was very favorable.

    -juice
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,636
    about the new wave of sport wagons. I feel that they may be exaggerating the extent to which people are turning to them instead of SUVs but still there's something happening. www.nytimes.com (registration required but available @ no charge), click on automobiles and you'll find it.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • immovableimmovable Posts: 14
    I love wagons - my first car was an 84 Toyota Tercel wagon. It ran forever, got great gas mileage, could carry tons of stuff. Now, I own a 96 Accord wagon. Love it, too. It does just about anything I ask of it. I think it has only about 7 or 8 more years left in it though... :)

    Right now, I'm really excited about the Ford Freestyle FX. I wish Ford would build it with the trick roof. V6 power, fat tires, all-wheel drive - it looks like it could be a really fun sedan. Go into wagon mode, and you can either haul 8x4 sheets of anything, or have 3 row seating for your passengers!

    I think Ford needs to look at the success of the Chevy Avalanche. It's selling very well because it has something distinct about it - the flexibility the midgate offers. Ford should keep the trick roof (assuming it actually works and is water-tight) because it sets it apart from all the other wagons out there. Without it, I might as well consider the Audi Allroad, the Chrysler Pacifica, etc., too.

    Ford - if you're listening - if you build the Freestyle FX, it will sell!
  • I just bought an Audi A4 1.8T Quattro sedan, but I can attest to both the popularity and performance of the "sport wagons", at least in my neck of the woods.

    Here in Colorado, the mini-utes are becoming increasingly more common on the road. In a state with a pretty substantial amount of yearly snowfall, people here have been buying Subaru Forrester's and Outbacks for a long time. I have several friends who bought those very cars and LOVE them. Denver is definitely a commuter's town and the traffic here is horrendous, but given the amount of inclement weather we get, and people's enthusiasm for skiing and the like, lots of folks see the sport wagons-- especially ones with AWD like the subies --as a preferable alternative to the big clunky, gas guzzling SUVs.

    I used to drive a 1999 Isuzu Rodeo, which is one of the smaller SUVs out there, and a week before I traded it in, I was positively humiliated off the line by an A4 1.8T Avant. I was trying to make some bonehead, overly aggressive merge into traffic, and this punk kid in a *wagon* proceeded to summarily kick my butt. My stupid male ego was of course totally indignant... I mean, how could it be? A teenager, out in his Mom's grocery-grabbin' soccer mobile with a tiny engine just completely waxed my precious V-6?
    Wha-huh?!?!? Now, The Isuzu has never been lauded as a "performance machine", but it's engine is honestly decidedly too big for it's frame, and so I was flabbergasted that a car that I thought was grossly underpowered was flat out dusting me.
    I figured, "wagons are slow, right? People named Ethel drive them to bingo games and AARP meetings, right?" Apparently not... because I encountered similar pastings from Jetta wagons and later the Subie WRX wagons. Now, I could understand getting whipped by the WRX... putting that drive-train in a wagon is nothing more than a ploy to keep your insurance company from gouging you for having a sports car, am I wrong? Honestly, that kind of subterfuge just isn't fair. =) I hate to admit it, but I was thoroughly fooled by the station wagon stigma. I was genuinely surprised at how well most of these wagons did, in terms of speed. I never doubted a wagon's utility before, but up until recently, I almost always dismissed them as being gutless, homogenized, ungainly things reserved for PTA Moms and guys in flared, plaid pants.

    Not so.

    Apart from the IS300 "Sport-Cross" or whatever they're labeling that insipid, glorified Toyota boy-racer debacle... I have to say I'm impressed with the lot of wagons that's been coming out.
    Did I not have such an irrational, childish aversion to them and the damage they might inflict on my shameless Peter Pan complex, I'd seriously consider buying one...

    In the meantime, I'll be here with my pride... trying to sort out how the Hell I'm going to cram my full-size upright bass into the trunk of my A4 Sedan... and two electrics... and two speaker cabinets... and an amp head... and a rubbermaid box full of pedals... and giutar stands... and....
    well, *me*.

    Crap.
    Time for a roof rack. =)

    Damn my Audi and it's diminuatively elegant lines!
    Curse it and it's sporty charisma! Grrr....

    Maybe my sister will let me borrow the Isuzu I sold her.... =)
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    Can't believe you didn't buy the wagon if you need its utility. I think the wagon looks better, and why be concerned about what others think anyway.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think the A4 Avant is very handsome. In fact to me it looks better than the sedan. Just one opinion.

    -juice
  • wrxsoon1wrxsoon1 Posts: 158
    Sounds to me like your salesman didn't do his job. Aren't they supposed to ask you about what you like to do when you're not working (i.e. hobbies)? All he did was take your order. I'd report him to the BBB. ;^)

    -Ian
  • I thought about getting the wagon, but utimately my decision came down to percentages; i.e., how often would I need to lug around my musical gear, versus how often would I be in the car commuting between clients, going out, just driving around, etc. In years past, I was a pretty serious musician, gigging almost 3 nights a week, every week, which is why I had the SUV. But now that I'm a little older and have scaled back on playing music in favor of -- gasp! -- a "real" job (web development), I decided I wanted something a little smaller and a little sportier. I think the wagons are great too, but as of now, I have no wife or kids, so passenger concerns didn't rank very high up there either. Also, I live downtown and there was just something enormously appealing about being able to zip in and out of parking spots and things like that.

    I think I just wanted something different. I had owned my Rodeo for 5 years and I felt like it was time for something that was a radical departure. Rational or not, to me, the wagon just seemed too similar to an SUV. Plus, for whatever reason, I just like the visual character of the sedan a bit more. It's more emotive than anything. I admit it's not the most pragmatic choice, but it's the one that made me happy, so "oh, well", right? I suppose there's always that "X" factor or personal preferences and idiosyncracies that comes in to play when buying anything. The practical side of me knew the wagon was the way to go, and the purely emotional, esthetic and eternally bachelor-minded part of me wanted to get something like an M3 coupe, or the TT, so I ended up splitting the difference, I guess.

    But now that the deal's been made and I'm actually in the driver's seat of the A4, I can honestly say that every minute I've spent in it has been an absolute joy... and I suppose that's what matters most. To me, it's worth it to spend the extra ten minutes hazarding some creative geometry to get my amp in the back seat.

    And when I was test-driving, I actually brought along a tape measurer, just to be sure, so I guess I wasn't entirely impractical.

    Now... if I can just work on this weird impulse to fervently over-jusitfy my decisions to strangers, I'll be in good shape. =)

    Oh-- my sales guy was pretty funny... he swore up and down that the absolute end-all-be-all, penultimate selling point of the enitre Audi line was the "visor-ette", the little mini visor that comes down above the rear-view mirror. According to him, the "visor-ette" was the root of all the car's power and sex appeal. I quote him, "Chicks dig the 'visor-ette'. They love it. ".

    I had a date last weekend, and tried repeatedly to tap this shadowy, inexplicable hypnotic force.
    Several times on the way to dinner I calculatedly waggled the "visor-ette", slowy and deliberately pointing out its location above the mirror in hopes of brandishing its secretive, unlettered powers. But try as I may, I cannot of yet attest to the mighty "visor-ettes" magnetic sway on the fairer, gentler, Fallopian ilk. Alas, my efforts with this magical piece of plastic yielded no fruits. So, despite what my car-dealer said, I have found no evidence to support his nebulous theory that "chicks dig the 'visor-ette'."

    That Charalatan.
    Big fat liar.
    I want my money back. =)
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    Lol, you're too funny! Thanks for the laugh.

    So has anyone here determined whether sports wagons are the wave of the future? Imo, seems to be the current trend. Talk later. ;-)

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    So, it's a total babe-magnet? Do they come aftermarket? ;-)

    -juice
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,751
    there might be a slow rising water level but not a wave. People that are interested in the utility of a wagon aren't fooled by the marketing tool of calling them a "Sport" wagon. It isn't how one runs against a SUV but rather how it runs against a Sports Sedan. So what it will all come down to is how many people have a need for a bit more room over a bit less sport? I can't see the BMW 3 series buyer deserting in any wholesale lots from their sedans. If we call crossovers wagons then they may have a much brighter future. The real question is are Crossovers sporty compared to a sport sedan or a sports coupe? It is doubtful if the above aggressive merge maneuver had been duplicated between a sports sedan and sports wagon that the result would be the same.

    There is every reason to believe wagons will enjoy a degree of success but a wave may just be a bit of a stretch.
  • icvciicvci Posts: 1,031
    With a nice price and a boat load of performance, it'll make some waves.

    When they build it, it will sell.
  • ms_mayorms_mayor Posts: 113
    I'm sure there are 'purists' out there who think that if a vehicle is called a sports wagon it should be comparable to a performance or sports car. I beg to differ.

    I'm a mom who doesn't need to accelerate to 60 mph at the drop of a hat. I don't need to 'race' to the grocery store. I'm not looking to beat out the car next to me at the light.

    I think that's why the Pacifica fits me to a tee. Its got all the utility of my previous wagon but is WAY more sporty and fun to drive than my old Volvo. The handling is just sporty enough to make me feel like 'the cool Mom'.

    For me, and I'm sure for others, its not just about what's under the hood.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Mazda has been slow, slow in getting those models out. I saw then at the NY Auto Show, LAST YEAR, April 2002! Where are they? I mean, c'mon!

    They are lookers, the hatch and the wagon. Cool how the rear seats spring forward and down at the press of a button, too. But get them into dealers, already!

    I feel mixed about the Pacifica. Dunno, I'm undecided. I have to drive one to see.

    -juice
  • icvciicvci Posts: 1,031
    January juice.

    The 6 wagon won't compare with the Chrysler Pacifica. The Pacifica is a minivan with hinged doors. The Mazda6 wagon is a sport wagon. Hard lines and great handling.

    I can't imagine people cross shopping the two.
This discussion has been closed.