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Sports Wagons - The wave of the future?
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Also (this may have changed now - not sure) SUV's and trucks (including minivans) do not have to meet passenger car safety requirements. Which means they aren't (maybe weren't) required to have airbags, side impact protection, rear center stop lamp etc. Many of these vehicles did adopt these things, but they are (were) not required.
We will probably end up getting a Yukon XL or something in about a year when gas prices drop. Someone mentioned earlier about kids not wanting to drive what their parents drive. My Son absolutely loves this car. He recently became a volunteer firefighter and when he finally gets his junior license and will drive to respond to calls, this will be the car he drives.
Just my 2 cents. Thought I might try to revive this discussion.
Automan
It seems as if it has moved a bit. I think we can assume that compared to their Sedan siblings they are more Wagon than sport, and compared to their SUV big brothers they are more sport than wagon...I have no idea what they are compared to the crossovers.
Anyway, I love my T5. Kids are starting to get a little cramped in it, but with gas prices approaching 1.70 for premium, they'll survive with a station wagon.
I don't want to compare F1 safety design with the normal road car but the design intent is similar in some of todays road cars. Therefore, I wouldn't necessarily equate bigger is safer in todays designs.
I am sure there will be more sports wagons in the future. I just don't know if it will be a wave.
You also are seeing the palette of wagons expanding just like those of sedans. As more and more people come back to the wagon, manufacturers are realizing that this platform can run the spectrum of sporty fun (Subaru WRX) to almost "truck" like (Acura MDX). A wider palette can only mean more markets for them to enter. More markets means more sales.
I choose to look at it optimistically as a great opportunity to drive more wagons. So buck up camper, more wagons means more sport wagons to drive. See you in the dealers showroom. Vroom, vroom! ;^)
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Unfortunately safety of passengers is often a victim of cost cutting measures just like anything else. I've seen pictures of a MB E-class wagon in which the rear passengers were involved in a rear end collision. The roll cage and crumple zones transferred the energy around the passengers. MB is beyond the price point of most people but that price does buy a very safe vehicle. To MB's credit they do not often patent these techniques and many manufacturers have benefited from this. Regrettably, there are still some that do not.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Anybody know where I can get an Aero Wagon cheap?
(By the way, Boxerlover is about the dog, not the sport.)
Any how, for the most part newer unibody SUVs generally score better at passive safety than frame-based SUVs, so there's no reason to expect sport wagons won't do well at both, which is what makes an all-around safe car.
-juice
Therefore it is not always as simple as saying a bigger heavier vehicle is safer for the occupants than a smaller lighter vehicle.
Yes I agree that safety comes at a cost and all the money in the world won't reduce risk to zero.
BTW, some manufacturers are experimenting with 5 point harnesses. I think Saab is.
Jim
jpscatena@t-one.net
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
finally people are waking up to the beauty of the new millinium vehichle
Once you've owned one it's hard to imagine going back to sedans.
-juice
-juice
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Plenty of room for family, it's fast, and fun to drive...
better yet..zero problems...not like the audi/volvo which have lots of electical gremlins...at least that's what i've heard...
No mechanical gremmies either except a bad suspension bushing replaced under warranty.
This '98 car still looks and runs like new.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Audi's Avants are among the most handsome wagons on the market. Actually make that vehicles, period.
-juice
I agree with you Juice. The A4 Avant (and the S4 Avant) is one beautiful car.
As you can see I've been looking at the WRX, the wagon in particular (for all the reasons people have said they like wagons in this discussion). I've always liked wagons. Used to pine over the '91 Accord wagon, not sure why just liked the way it looked I guess. My first car was an '81 Civic wagon I bought with 190K on it. OK, I admit it was a total beater, but it served me well just out of H.S. and into College. You should have seen it all loaded down with skiis bikes and stuff as I drove it from home to college! LOL!
Now I'm finally in a position to purchase a new one for myself and I'm having a hell of a time deciding. Then again I haven't done much test driving. Unfortunately, it looks like I'll have to wait a few months to check out some of the more attractive choices like the Mazda 6 and the Volvo V70R i've seen here on Edmunds in the Future sections.
Anyone out there?
-Ian
Did you see the WRX face-lift? Looks much better. I'm sure lots of people that held out due to styling might jump in now.
You can see the rally prototype at swrt.com.
-juice
I can see why some folks are saying the new look just makes it look like another car from Asia. I do think it will attract far more people who may have been turned off by the styling (is that a good thing?).
-Ian
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
FWIW, I like the Audi better than the Volvo, however I don't have to write a check for it every month.
Let us know what you decide and good luck.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
A6 or V70? Hmm. Audi knows AWD. Volvo is new to it (sort of). You get a V6 vs. a pumped up 5. And the styling is gorgeous.
Then again, Volvo has the "safe" image and noone will think you're a snob for buying one. They're roomy and those built-in boosters are very cool. I can see going either way.
Do peek at the H6 Outback. You can get an LL Bean for a little over $26k, and that's loaded up. The VDC is just under $28k. They just came out with an all-champagne monotone color for the H6 models, if you don't like the two-tone look.
-juice
-Ian
i'm a little nervous that i just spent 5 days in tahoe and didn't see a single audi and every car that wasn't a suv or truck had the volvo tag.
still thinking....
A friend of mine researched this option and shared some info with me. The pricing was very favorable.
-juice
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Right now, I'm really excited about the Ford Freestyle FX. I wish Ford would build it with the trick roof. V6 power, fat tires, all-wheel drive - it looks like it could be a really fun sedan. Go into wagon mode, and you can either haul 8x4 sheets of anything, or have 3 row seating for your passengers!
I think Ford needs to look at the success of the Chevy Avalanche. It's selling very well because it has something distinct about it - the flexibility the midgate offers. Ford should keep the trick roof (assuming it actually works and is water-tight) because it sets it apart from all the other wagons out there. Without it, I might as well consider the Audi Allroad, the Chrysler Pacifica, etc., too.
Ford - if you're listening - if you build the Freestyle FX, it will sell!
Here in Colorado, the mini-utes are becoming increasingly more common on the road. In a state with a pretty substantial amount of yearly snowfall, people here have been buying Subaru Forrester's and Outbacks for a long time. I have several friends who bought those very cars and LOVE them. Denver is definitely a commuter's town and the traffic here is horrendous, but given the amount of inclement weather we get, and people's enthusiasm for skiing and the like, lots of folks see the sport wagons-- especially ones with AWD like the subies --as a preferable alternative to the big clunky, gas guzzling SUVs.
I used to drive a 1999 Isuzu Rodeo, which is one of the smaller SUVs out there, and a week before I traded it in, I was positively humiliated off the line by an A4 1.8T Avant. I was trying to make some bonehead, overly aggressive merge into traffic, and this punk kid in a *wagon* proceeded to summarily kick my butt. My stupid male ego was of course totally indignant... I mean, how could it be? A teenager, out in his Mom's grocery-grabbin' soccer mobile with a tiny engine just completely waxed my precious V-6?
Wha-huh?!?!? Now, The Isuzu has never been lauded as a "performance machine", but it's engine is honestly decidedly too big for it's frame, and so I was flabbergasted that a car that I thought was grossly underpowered was flat out dusting me.
I figured, "wagons are slow, right? People named Ethel drive them to bingo games and AARP meetings, right?" Apparently not... because I encountered similar pastings from Jetta wagons and later the Subie WRX wagons. Now, I could understand getting whipped by the WRX... putting that drive-train in a wagon is nothing more than a ploy to keep your insurance company from gouging you for having a sports car, am I wrong? Honestly, that kind of subterfuge just isn't fair. I hate to admit it, but I was thoroughly fooled by the station wagon stigma. I was genuinely surprised at how well most of these wagons did, in terms of speed. I never doubted a wagon's utility before, but up until recently, I almost always dismissed them as being gutless, homogenized, ungainly things reserved for PTA Moms and guys in flared, plaid pants.
Not so.
Apart from the IS300 "Sport-Cross" or whatever they're labeling that insipid, glorified Toyota boy-racer debacle... I have to say I'm impressed with the lot of wagons that's been coming out.
Did I not have such an irrational, childish aversion to them and the damage they might inflict on my shameless Peter Pan complex, I'd seriously consider buying one...
In the meantime, I'll be here with my pride... trying to sort out how the Hell I'm going to cram my full-size upright bass into the trunk of my A4 Sedan... and two electrics... and two speaker cabinets... and an amp head... and a rubbermaid box full of pedals... and giutar stands... and....
well, *me*.
Crap.
Time for a roof rack.
Damn my Audi and it's diminuatively elegant lines!
Curse it and it's sporty charisma! Grrr....
Maybe my sister will let me borrow the Isuzu I sold her....
-juice
-Ian
I think I just wanted something different. I had owned my Rodeo for 5 years and I felt like it was time for something that was a radical departure. Rational or not, to me, the wagon just seemed too similar to an SUV. Plus, for whatever reason, I just like the visual character of the sedan a bit more. It's more emotive than anything. I admit it's not the most pragmatic choice, but it's the one that made me happy, so "oh, well", right? I suppose there's always that "X" factor or personal preferences and idiosyncracies that comes in to play when buying anything. The practical side of me knew the wagon was the way to go, and the purely emotional, esthetic and eternally bachelor-minded part of me wanted to get something like an M3 coupe, or the TT, so I ended up splitting the difference, I guess.
But now that the deal's been made and I'm actually in the driver's seat of the A4, I can honestly say that every minute I've spent in it has been an absolute joy... and I suppose that's what matters most. To me, it's worth it to spend the extra ten minutes hazarding some creative geometry to get my amp in the back seat.
And when I was test-driving, I actually brought along a tape measurer, just to be sure, so I guess I wasn't entirely impractical.
Now... if I can just work on this weird impulse to fervently over-jusitfy my decisions to strangers, I'll be in good shape.
Oh-- my sales guy was pretty funny... he swore up and down that the absolute end-all-be-all, penultimate selling point of the enitre Audi line was the "visor-ette", the little mini visor that comes down above the rear-view mirror. According to him, the "visor-ette" was the root of all the car's power and sex appeal. I quote him, "Chicks dig the 'visor-ette'. They love it. ".
I had a date last weekend, and tried repeatedly to tap this shadowy, inexplicable hypnotic force.
Several times on the way to dinner I calculatedly waggled the "visor-ette", slowy and deliberately pointing out its location above the mirror in hopes of brandishing its secretive, unlettered powers. But try as I may, I cannot of yet attest to the mighty "visor-ettes" magnetic sway on the fairer, gentler, Fallopian ilk. Alas, my efforts with this magical piece of plastic yielded no fruits. So, despite what my car-dealer said, I have found no evidence to support his nebulous theory that "chicks dig the 'visor-ette'."
That Charalatan.
Big fat liar.
I want my money back.
So has anyone here determined whether sports wagons are the wave of the future? Imo, seems to be the current trend. Talk later. ;-)
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
-juice
There is every reason to believe wagons will enjoy a degree of success but a wave may just be a bit of a stretch.
When they build it, it will sell.
I'm a mom who doesn't need to accelerate to 60 mph at the drop of a hat. I don't need to 'race' to the grocery store. I'm not looking to beat out the car next to me at the light.
I think that's why the Pacifica fits me to a tee. Its got all the utility of my previous wagon but is WAY more sporty and fun to drive than my old Volvo. The handling is just sporty enough to make me feel like 'the cool Mom'.
For me, and I'm sure for others, its not just about what's under the hood.
They are lookers, the hatch and the wagon. Cool how the rear seats spring forward and down at the press of a button, too. But get them into dealers, already!
I feel mixed about the Pacifica. Dunno, I'm undecided. I have to drive one to see.
-juice
The 6 wagon won't compare with the Chrysler Pacifica. The Pacifica is a minivan with hinged doors. The Mazda6 wagon is a sport wagon. Hard lines and great handling.
I can't imagine people cross shopping the two.