to another interesting question...For the life of me I cannot figure out why after exchanging two or three emails they would not ask for you. I often wonder what that thought process might be... Do Customers believe those exchanges are somehow automated?
really believe that to be true...What about if no numbers have been discussed? Just colors options, etc.
I find it almost incomprehensible that anyone would walk into Dealership and deal with the usual scenario after they have already engaged the Internet Sales Manager or Fleet Manger...That simply mystifies me...
First of all, you're not shopping like real consumers. Nobody walks in and asks for the "best price" up front.
Why didn't you go in and shove TMV in their faces? Why didn't you go in with reams of paper with invoice numbers on them? If you read your own message boards, you would know that the dealerships expect customers to be informed enough to make a reasonable offer. You're test case isn't very realistic.
May I suggest a part 3? Go to the nearest competitor of the local dealer that quoted you already. Walk the lot, test drive, etc, then go into the negotiation phase with the number that the internet manager at the other store gave you as the "starting point."
See what the results are and then report back. This might be a more realistic scenario for us to read about. Actually, I'm scheduled to do some mystery shopping this week. If you don't feel like it, I'll do a part 3 for you.
well, you know some do walk in and demand your "best price" on whatever car they may be looking at. Most of these "buyers" never buy, have no clue what car and options they are looking at, and have not even driven the car. They get shown the way to their car real quick!
had a "customer" call today about a price quote he had requested from my website. Even sent a stock number with it, even though I post all selling prices with a stock number and description of the car. After I returned his call he tells me the price on the web is $12,988.00 for a 2003 Camry Le. I tell him it's obviously a typo, that the girl that inputs the info into the computer made a mistake. He is adamant about getting this price. So I ask him "Sir, you've been on our website. Now didn't it occur to you that this was an obvious mistake when all the other Camrys like this one are higher priced? I asked. "I kind of thought so. You never know." he responded. "I do have Corolla Ce's starting at that price. Would you be interested in one?" I ask "No, one of your competitors is advertising TO BE CONTINUED... : ) Mackabee
sorry had to cut the story short, customer just came in. SO anyway. He says "one of your competitors is advertising Camrys for $16,100.00" which I know of no one around here advertising Camrys for that price but I humor him anyway. "Well, if they are selling them for that price why haven't you bought one there?" I ask. "I still think that's too high" he says. "Well, thanks for bringing that error on our website. Have a nice night." As soon as I get off the phone I go to our admin girl and tell her about our oversight. "I'll get it corrected, sorry." she says. "No big deal, it happens."
I've had this dingbat telling me for 2 weeks that they are advertising new 03 LE Camry Automatics in Virginia Beach for $16,100. There must be a catch, though, because he hasn't taken my advice and gone and bought one yet. All he wants me to do is meet the price.
Here is my question...How many steps does internet buying encompass at your dealership.
The last two cars I bought, even with price agreed to at interent. I had to sit down at salesman desk and go through paint seal, window etching, etc and then wait to write all up and sit and wait with F&I.
sidebar: do they teach in f&I school not to use the office lights, only a small desk lamp or some other obscure lighting?
I would like next time to be more like OK, come in at 2:00 to inspect drive/vehicle and meet with F&I at 2:30 to sign. I will agree I complicated the process each time buy bringing up the trade-in. But I spent 4hrs at Honda, which is obscene, and spent about 2.5 at Olds.
Do any of you have a "true" internet sales office?
btw- I got in the mail a complete package on the infiniti M45, including CD..this thing must have cost $5 to mail...pretty expensive ad campaign.
the paperwork is preprinted before you get here. The car/ truck/ whatever is full of gas, cleaned, and inspected by 2 or our internet people. 2:00- come in, shake hands, look at car, drive car if you want. 2:15, sit at my desk, have a Coke on us, sign for 5 min, no F&I dance, you're on the road.
Of course, its rare that we meet our customers, we deliver about 80% of our sales outside of our area.
The only problem with the article is that it only deals in quotes. They never actually sat down to purchase these vehicles. I wonder how much the prices would change if they did. Naturally, finances would restrict that experiment, but I bet it would make a difference.
is right here. (the computer): ) Before I took over the net leads we had a separate office in the building next door where our the phone operators sit. The office was staffed with 4 people who handled all our franchises leads (Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Izusi, VW, BMW, Audi, Jag, AND Saab) Our VP and some customer complaints led to disestablishment of that group and we decided to turn the leads back to one person in each franchise. I do all my work from my terminal at my desk which is in the showroom and sometimes at home when I can get to the computer if Mack jr. is not on it. Our F$I offices (4) are well lit and 2 of them are right in the showroom in the open air, with ficus trees and whatever flowers are in bloom during the season. We have 2 male and 2 female f&i people or rather "financial services officers" as TMS would now like for us to call them. All of them have sold cars on the floor before. 2 have not sold cars in years and sometimes get stuck in what I like to call the "dinosaur mode" the other two have recently left the floor so they are more in tune with what goes on with today's customers. One kid in particular, been in there about six months and he's tearing the place up! He is very efficient and to the point. Gets customers in and out in 30 minutes or less and is outgrossing the rest of the F$I team. It helps that we gave him some advice before he went in there. We told him "Hey, if a customer doesn't want an extended warranty, or mop and glo, etc.. just get them out of there and go to the next one. No sense in spending one to two hours aggravating the customer and yourself." He took our advice and is doing great. : ) Mackabee
The way to convince the dealership you're a serious buyer deserving of a serious quote is to discuss money before you've even decided on the frickin' make?
and to ensure you get a COMPETITIVE quote, you promise NOT to shop it?
in any negotiation, what matters is what the OTHER party thinks.
if one acts and talks like one just walked out of the looney bin, they're going to think you did
and it don't matter if you didn't.
If i wanted to get the highest quote possible, I would act like this...
and the chances it would be lower than the Internet quote would be the same as ET's in a no-holds-barred match with the Alien.
At least by sending an email, you get credit for knowing how to operate a computer (just remember to hit the spell-check button)
Just poked in here for the first time. A good discussion. Since you asked for some customer input:
I'm a typical "educated" customer. I pay cash. I research every aspect of a car before I even go near a dealer. Nine times out of ten, I know more about a car than the salesperson. I don't want to waste any salesperson's time, and don't want them to waste mine. All I want to do is test drive a few models and be on my way to mull my decision over. When I decide on a car, I write down exactly what I want and the price I want to pay and hand it to the salesperson. There's the usual "Let me talk to my manager", but I remain calm and cordial and if they don't come close to my offer within 2 rounds, I say "Thanks for your time. If you change your mind, give me a call," and I head for the door. So far I've gotten my price, or close to it, every time. Don't know if it was the best price in town, but it kept things short and sweet.
However, I only arrived at this method after many negative experiences - the phony "good faith deposit" scheme, the "Yes, we have that car in stock" lie, items added to the invoice without my consent, a car sold out from under me (I sued the dealer and was awarded the price difference for a substitute), etc. Can you wonder why so many of us regard buying a car as something akin to getting an enema? I know there are good, business-like salespeople out there, but I can't do a Google search for them. The first guy to greet me at the door is the guy I get.
Last time, I used CarBargains - for $135 or so they got me six competitive quotes via fax. For me it was worth $135 just to avoid the game-playing, and I didn't have to speculate as much on what the cars were going for.
As you might expect, I'll probably use the internet this time around. I don't know or care if it's the very rock-bottom price if I can avoid the game-playing.
Surely there must be a better way to buy and sell cars than this. All some of us want is a straightforward business transaction.
The simple facts that you pay cash and know all about the car before you buy puts you in the same category as, oh, probably less than 1% of all the customers a dealership will see.
Unfortunately, dealerships aren't set up to cater to such a tiny segment of the market. But it sounds like after some negative experiences you have found a buying process that makes you happy. Congratulations on finding a new approach that works for you. Many people just continue doing the same old thing and getting the same old results.
.... Paranoid .. ? no, not at all, but just like Landru just mentioned you are a 1 percenter .. you are paying cash and basically you know what you are looking for.
Whether someone is buying a Cavalier or a Benz, the vast majority are looking to hit a certain payment (whether they admit it or not), along with that payment they are probably bringing in a nice bunch of negative equity with their trade and little or no money down.
Your the buyer that every dealer would like to see 6/7 times a day .. l.o.l..
That's a good system zigzag. Pretty much what I do, too. I can get a pretty darn good idea of a decent price from Edmunds, offer something less and come to a quick price negotiation with a reasonable car store. If they start to play games or take too long, I walk.
Well, sometimes that doesn't work. Just had a customer buy from someone else even after I gave him everything he wanted. I thought something was up when he didn't show up for our appointment yesterday, didn't returned my calls. I get an e-mail that he sent at 11:05pm last night. I read it this morning. Said: "Thank you for your professionalism, I am sad to report I bought a Camry at a dealership on this side of the water" meaning real close to where he lives. I guess once they have your numbers anyone can beat the deal, I was on a loser deal to begin with. 5 bucks (500) under invoice on a Camry and $21,500.00 trade in on a 2003 Honda Pilot sight unseen. Oh well, no big deal! Just part of the business. On to the next one. : ) Mackabee
CarBargains claims that it gets the best quotes because dealers know that the buyer is serious (since the buyer has invested $190 in the process). I'm curious - does this really pull any weight with dealers? Do you guys in sales take CarBargains quotes more seriously than e-mail quotes? After all, a CarBargains customer can still shop the lowest bid around.
I used it about 5 years ago (I wasn't yet confident in the internet services) and the results seemed pretty good, although I had nothing to compare it to. It was only $135 at that time.
I guess there is some "poetic justice" after all. I sent a survey to the customer asking if he bought the same car, and what swayed his decision. Customer e-mailed back, said bought same car different trim line, and the dealership was closer to home. Then he confessed he got my e-mail AFTER he made the deal up there where I had agreed to his trade-in value. We were $1500.00 more on his trade. Guy is probably still kicking himself in the behind on this one! : ) Mackabee
21,500 for a nearly new Pilot? I thought they stickered for 27-32, and were impossible to get? Wouldn't think you would have to lose 5+K on one of those in a couple of months (which way to Retail road?)
I've never heard of them, either. Personally, I think ABT and the other major lead providers should charge $25 for someone to be able to submit a lead. We would all take them more seriously then.
Well, they gave him $20,000.00 for it. $1500.00 less than I offered. Too bad he didn't stick around long enough to read the e-mail I sent or return my calls. : 0 Mackabee
This situation kind of speaks to my earlier point...It seems that the best way for the customer to use the internet is to look at the entire picture...ALL of the components, and to bear in mind that old adage..."there is no such thing as a free lunch".
Instead of asking for the Dealer's *Best Price*...Ask the Internet Manager if she/he can meet the customer's Best/Target Price.
And if there is a trade; obviously an accurate number is only a guess or Ball Park number; so there has to be personal contact...That trade has to be seen, touched and driven. Why would anyone think otherwise.
It seems that those with trades have forgotten that the normal practice is for the *Seller* to put a price on the car, and in those situations that are more desperate...the Tag Line..."Or Best Offer". I can't imagine the reaction of most who are trying to sell anything getting really excited about someone saying..."What will you take?" "Well, I see that you are asking $475,000 for your Home...What's your *Best Price*"? What kind of reaction do you think that will bring?
Now, a house is a one of a kind type of thing and a car certainly is not, but it would seem to me that if one is in the market for a car; it should come as no surprise that there is a great deal more involved than simply the price of the car itself. Bottom fishing for a price is never a very effective methodology regardless of the item. But questions like "How am I going to be taken care of tomorrow?" Who is going to help me if I have a problem?", never seem to be considered. Service & Customer Care after the sale have always come at a premium...It's the difference between Nordstrom's & Costco. And yet, there seems to be an attitude out there today where some Car Buyers are looking for a Costco Price & Nordstrom's Service...
I think that while most people naturally look for a low price regardless of service, some of us who are willing to pay more for good service don't see the payoff in the context of car-buying. In my case, I think "Well, if I'm generous to this salesperson (who might not even be knowledgeable about the car), what are the real odds that he/she will still be around in two years, and even if he/she is, what are the real odds that he/she will, or even can, help me with a serious problem?" My conclusion is usually "Not very good odds - if I have a serious problem, I'm pretty much at the mercy of the regional service rep." It might be different in a small town, but in a metropolitan area I'm not sure what it gets you, especially if you only buy a car every 5 years and change makes when you do.
If I'm incorrect, I'd be interested in another point of view. How much power does a salesperson really have after a sale?
And how do I find such a salesperson at a given dealership? If I think the guy I'm dealing with is an amateur, do I say "Sorry - I want to talk to someone else"? Sounds like a good way to get on a dealer's ****list.
CarBargains must not be making much of an impact if you guys have never heard of it. I think they've been around for about 10 years and, like I said, for a flat fee they get bids from 5 dealers, and you can do what you want with the bids. Judging from their website, I guess they mostly do business in the DC/SF areas. They have press clippings showing that they get the lowest prices, purportedly because the dealers take the bidding more seriously. I don't know if that's still true since the internet has become more pervasive, but from what you guys in sales are saying, there might be some truth to it. of course, any price advantage would be diminished by the fee.
If you are dealing with a Retail/Line Sales Rep then your concerns are well founded. If, however; you are dealing with the Manager of the Internet Dept. you are most probably dealing with an individual that has been around for awhile and will most probably be there for you in the future.
People tend to stay in positive, fulfilling environments. 5 Months ago I left a store that is drowning in malaise, and where there was/is no *Passion for the Brand*. After 7 Model years trying to motivate both Management & Employees to no avail, and after a 2 year courtship I moved to a place where 7 years makes you a recruit. Both of our General Sales Managers, one VW and one Suzuki/Hyundai have been on board for almost 30 years divided by 2. Senior Service Advisor for Volkswagen...15 years. Inventory-Detail Manager/10 years...F&I Director/11 years...And so it goes.
Interview the people you are dealing with...
A seasoned Sales Professional will get things done for you...Why? Because that person creates revenue for the Dealer Principal...And because of fact that I use the word Professional I am saying that he/she will also command respect from the Service Dept. and things will get done...When? NOW!!!!
How do you find this person? If you want to buy in the traditional way; call the Dealership and ask for the General Sales Manager...tell Her/Him that you would like to deal with the Senior/Best Sales Representative he employs and explain why. If you are buying on-line...Interview that Internet contact...if you know more than the person you are speaking with...see Plan *A*...Or go to another store..
Thanks for the input. I can assure you that I'm not in the newspaper biz - just a consumer who likes to learn all he can.
It so happens that I'm presently involved in a dispute with a dealer - they charged me for some work and insisted it wasn't a warranty item, I later learned that it was a warranty item, they admitted it but are giving me the run-around about a refund. The car is 7 years old, the management has changed, and no one wants to take responsibility or talk to me. I'd like to think that the saleswoman I bought it from could help me, but she was gone years ago. So I remain a skeptic.
The lesson is that we live in such a mobile society - dealers change, salespeople move on, customers relocate - that it can be difficult to establish long-term business relationships. And I can see a salesperson getting excited about a customer who buys every year or two, but not a boring customer like me who only buys every 5-10 years.
That said, I'm intrigued by your comments and may act on them - previously, I've always just dealt with the first salesperson to greet me. Also, until I saw this Edmunds article, I had never heard of an internet sales manager.
It's regrettable that people on both sides of the aisle have had so many negative experiences. I'm afraid that the car-buying, selling, and maintaining experience is uniquely complicated and difficult.
Warranty dispute...Contact your local Chamber of Commerce or the City Hall where the store is located and secure the name of the Dealer Principal/Owner...Write him and explain your situation...Resolution should not be far away...:)
How does your store confront the problem of customers you've been suppling answers to online purchasing from floor salespeople? I'm assuming I'm not the only one who sells 12 to 20 cars a month, only to have 5 to 10 more deals go to other salespeople. As it stands right now, I receive no credit whatsoever, and it really effects my income. Any info would be appreciated.
Touching on my previous question, why would you not ask for the person you've been communicating with for a while when you finally come to the dealership? Not to say all Internet shoppers are like this, because most aren't, but what is the thought process of these few? It might be, as stated in a previous post, that these people are the idiot part of the 20:1 ratio of idiots to actual buyers, but I am hoping there is a better explanation.
absolutely NO idea why anyone would exchange one or two emails and then just walk thru the front door and not mention that fact.
The only possible reason is that people feel that it is like checking out at the supermarket...and all they want is to get what they came for and leave...
We are putting sourcing monitors in place to prevent this from happening...will let you know how that goes.
I really dislike the "how much are you willing to pay for it?" scenario. Or the "if i can get you to xxx.xx/mo will you sign today?" Or the "Everyone pays the 2500 AMV/ADM/NW Protection package" errrggghhh.
I really enjoyed my internet buying experience. The main difference that I found was that I had a good price upfront('03 Accord in OCT. 750 over invoice or 1500 below MSRP), straight up talking, he never gave me a quote on my TBlazer, said he needed to inspect it first, which is understandable, and when I went in, it took about 1hour to get the callbacks on the trade. Eventually we were about 200 apart, so he took it off the price. Total time including the initial phone call was like 4hour including the delivery, test drive, etc. Very pleasurable experience, and no tricks. Probably do it again next time, too bad the salesperson got promoted.
that a lot of internet shoppers feel that we are only on the web to provide information. That would be my guess as why they don't come in and ask for you. Although, as I've stated before I have my picture on the e-mail and reiterate IF they should happen to come in before an appointment is set to print the e-mail with the price quote and ask for me to get the internet price. Some still don't do it, and I end up with half deals. : ) Mackabee
I've been ready to buy a car since late October, unfortunately, I'm trying to buy a 2003 CR-V, a very high-demand, low-supply car in my area. Internet exchanges were extremely vague, and on a car in high-demand, I felt like customers who walked in or even who phoned were "ahead" of me. With email, the most I could do was ask for exactly what I wanted, and be told a vague timeframe. When I tried to respond via email when a car actually came in, it was sold before my announced arrival.
Had I been buying a car that was more available, I'm sure this wouldn't have been such an issue, but for high-demand cars like the CR-V, I didn't feel like anyone was looking out for me until I actually walked into a dealer and initiated contact with a salesman. When I did that, I got to see the delivery list for the dealer for CR-V's, I got to see the waiting list, I got a realistic timeframe and now I actually believe I'll get a CR-V within 2 weeks.
What would've helped me here? A better qualifying process. With high-demand cars (like the CR-V), new models, and signifigant redesigns, perhaps dealers could put their delivery lists on their web pages, with the ability for consumers to put down a deposit immediately using a credit card. This would then take the car off the list, and put their name on it (and of course, would qualify them). Naturally a follow-up from the Internet Manager would be required, and lots of little asteriks would be there telling the consumer that delivery times are only estimates, that the final price is determined at a later time, etc... Is this impossible for some reason?
.... The vehicles that are in demand, are just that .. in demand.
Whether your looking at a G35, 4 Runner, CR-V, Sequoia, these vehicles go fast, especially the SUV's this time of the year ..
*until I actually walked into a dealer and initiated contact with a salesman. -
You just answered your own question, you needed to get involved in the buying process, if you don't, someone else will. The Net is a wonderful means of information, it's changed a lot of things in everyones lives, but a big demand on Any product gets the 1st ones in and everyone else, might just be on the outside looking in.
I did walk into a dealer very early in this process, and it made me nervous to do it again. This Honda dealer had a 2002 in Silver (I wanted a 2003 in Blue) and I told him right away that it wasn't what I wanted. He insisted I drive it, so I did, and despite me telling him over and over that I wanted a 2003 in Blue, he kept trying to sell me this car. He insulted me, saying I was being ridiculous to make such a big decision over color. When I said I was cross-shopping the CR-V with Xterra's (I had driven one earlier that day) he insulted Nissan and the Xterra, instead of praising the CR-V. Despite him leaving me twice to help other customers, when I tried to leave, he kept trying to make me feel guilty and stupid for not buying this Silver 2002 CR-V.
After that, I figured I'd rather not spend 2 hours at every dealer, unless they had my car, or gave me an impression they could get it in a reasonable timeframe. The dealer that sold the car under me at least boosted my hopes by saying "What I'll do is put your name on the next CR-V that comes in, and swap it for a blue one." I thought immediately, "Why didn't the first dealer that was so adamant not suggest doing that for me?"
This process has been extremely frustrating for a first-time new car purchase. My car's sticker expired, so I'm getting rides everywhere, or borrowing friends or parents cars to get to work everyday. (And no, the old car won't pass inspection, long story) I can't drive anywhere but work like that, and it's kept me grounded at home. I think if more car salesmen realized what a hassle this was for the customer, they'd do what they could to make it easy on us, so that we don't go out and buy the highly stocked, highly discounted competition. I know I've considered doing it about a dozen times.
Frankly, it's not a salesman's job to worry that you waited until you had no car before trying to get a new one. That's a situation that you put yourself in. The salesmen of the high demand cars don't need to make it easy on you. Other people are buying their products. If you aren't willing to step up to the plate then you may have to settle for the highly stocked competition.
It sounds like the salesman you ran into was rude. It also sounds like you may need to grab some spine. I'm assuming that he didn't force you to drive a car you weren't interested in. And I'm assuming that you weren't locked inside the dealership with him for those 2 hours. If a salesman doesn't accept a polite "No, thank-you" then that's his problem. Feel free to walk out at that point.
If you can't live without a CRV in blue, how about this: Spend a few minutes on the phone and ask if the store has a CRV in blue. If someone says yes, get in a cab and go buy it.
I made lots of phone calls, but since no one had any, I was looking more to find out how long I'd have to wait, and as I said, I was hesitant to walk into a showroom to get that information, as I was afraid I'd be there all afternoon, only to find out they may not get me a car until February. Phone calls usually amounted to extremely vague target dates. (I heard "Early to mid December about 4 times) The dealer I settled with was very thorough, showing me everything, all in about 15 minutes. The sticker expired this month, so that only became a problem recently, albeit, one I thought I wouldn't encounter, since I was told in early November I'd have my car in a week.
To bring it back on topic, how often do Internet Salesmen typically check and answer emails? I noticed one night when I emailed about about a half-dozen dealers using the forms on their websites, only 1 responded the next day, 4 after 2 days, and 1 waited 4 days. What's typical or reasonable? What's the volume of email a typical Internet Salesman will get in a given day?
Comments
figure out why after exchanging two or three emails they would
not ask for you. I often wonder what that thought process might be...
Do Customers believe those exchanges are somehow automated?
no numbers have been discussed? Just colors options, etc.
I find it almost incomprehensible that anyone would walk into Dealership and deal with the usual scenario after they have already engaged
the Internet Sales Manager or Fleet Manger...That simply mystifies me...
Ed
First of all, you're not shopping like real consumers. Nobody walks in and asks for the "best price" up front.
Why didn't you go in and shove TMV in their faces? Why didn't you go in with reams of paper with invoice numbers on them? If you read your own message boards, you would know that the dealerships expect customers to be informed enough to make a reasonable offer. You're test case isn't very realistic.
May I suggest a part 3? Go to the nearest competitor of the local dealer that quoted you already. Walk the lot, test drive, etc, then go into the negotiation phase with the number that the internet manager at the other store gave you as the "starting point."
See what the results are and then report back. This might be a more realistic scenario for us to read about. Actually, I'm scheduled to do some mystery shopping this week. If you don't feel like it, I'll do a part 3 for you.
Ed
: )
Mackabee
TO BE CONTINUED...
: )
Mackabee
: )
Mackabee
Small world.
Ed
The last two cars I bought, even with price agreed to at interent. I had to sit down at salesman desk and go through paint seal, window etching, etc and then wait to write all up and sit and wait with F&I.
sidebar: do they teach in f&I school not to use the office lights, only a small desk lamp or some other obscure lighting?
I would like next time to be more like OK, come in at 2:00 to inspect drive/vehicle and meet with F&I at 2:30 to sign. I will agree I complicated the process each time buy bringing up the trade-in. But I spent 4hrs at Honda, which is obscene, and spent about 2.5 at Olds.
Do any of you have a "true" internet sales office?
btw- I got in the mail a complete package on the infiniti M45, including CD..this thing must have cost $5 to mail...pretty expensive ad campaign.
Hey, it just hit me, perhaps the natural is where f&i got there inspiration!!
Of course, its rare that we meet our customers, we deliver about 80% of our sales outside of our area.
Ed
Before I took over the net leads we had a separate office in the building next door where our the phone operators sit. The office was staffed with 4 people who handled all our franchises leads (Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Izusi, VW, BMW, Audi, Jag, AND Saab) Our VP and some customer complaints led to disestablishment of that group and we decided to turn the leads back to one person in each franchise. I do all my work from my terminal at my desk which is in the showroom and sometimes at home when I can get to the computer if Mack jr. is not on it. Our F$I offices (4) are well lit and 2 of them are right in the showroom in the open air, with ficus trees and whatever flowers are in bloom during the season. We have 2 male and 2 female f&i people or rather "financial services officers" as TMS would now like for us to call them. All of them have sold cars on the floor before. 2 have not sold cars in years and sometimes get stuck in what I like to call the "dinosaur mode" the other two have recently left the floor so they are more in tune with what goes on with today's customers. One kid in particular, been in there about six months and he's tearing the place up! He is very efficient and to the point. Gets customers in and out in 30 minutes or less and is outgrossing the rest of the F$I team. It helps that we gave him some advice before he went in there. We told him "Hey, if a customer doesn't want an extended warranty, or mop and glo, etc.. just get them out of there and go to the next one. No sense in spending one to two hours aggravating the customer and yourself." He took our advice and is doing great.
: )
Mackabee
The way to convince the dealership you're a serious buyer deserving of a serious quote is to discuss money before you've even decided on the frickin' make?
and to ensure you get a COMPETITIVE quote, you promise NOT to shop it?
in any negotiation, what matters is what the OTHER party thinks.
if one acts and talks like one just walked out of the looney bin, they're going to think you did
and it don't matter if you didn't.
If i wanted to get the highest quote possible, I would act like this...
and the chances it would be lower than the Internet quote would be the same as ET's in a no-holds-barred match with the Alien.
At least by sending an email, you get credit for knowing how to operate a computer (just remember to hit the spell-check button)
I dunno..
Maybe i'm missing something.
ET does pack a pretty mean head-butt.
I'm a typical "educated" customer. I pay cash. I research every aspect of a car before I even go near a dealer. Nine times out of ten, I know more about a car than the salesperson. I don't want to waste any salesperson's time, and don't want them to waste mine. All I want to do is test drive a few models and be on my way to mull my decision over. When I decide on a car, I write down exactly what I want and the price I want to pay and hand it to the salesperson. There's the usual "Let me talk to my manager", but I remain calm and cordial and if they don't come close to my offer within 2 rounds, I say "Thanks for your time. If you change your mind, give me a call," and I head for the door. So far I've gotten my price, or close to it, every time. Don't know if it was the best price in town, but it kept things short and sweet.
However, I only arrived at this method after many negative experiences - the phony "good faith deposit" scheme, the "Yes, we have that car in stock" lie, items added to the invoice without my consent, a car sold out from under me (I sued the dealer and was awarded the price difference for a substitute), etc. Can you wonder why so many of us regard buying a car as something akin to getting an enema? I know there are good, business-like salespeople out there, but I can't do a Google search for them. The first guy to greet me at the door is the guy I get.
Last time, I used CarBargains - for $135 or so they got me six competitive quotes via fax. For me it was worth $135 just to avoid the game-playing, and I didn't have to speculate as much on what the cars were going for.
As you might expect, I'll probably use the internet this time around. I don't know or care if it's the very rock-bottom price if I can avoid the game-playing.
Surely there must be a better way to buy and sell cars than this. All some of us want is a straightforward business transaction.
Am I being too paranoid?
Unfortunately, dealerships aren't set up to cater to such a tiny segment of the market. But it sounds like after some negative experiences you have found a buying process that makes you happy. Congratulations on finding a new approach that works for you. Many people just continue doing the same old thing and getting the same old results.
Whether someone is buying a Cavalier or a Benz, the vast majority are looking to hit a certain payment (whether they admit it or not), along with that payment they are probably bringing in a nice bunch of negative equity with their trade and little or no money down.
Your the buyer that every dealer would like to see 6/7 times a day .. l.o.l..
Terry.
: )
Mackabee
Ed
I used it about 5 years ago (I wasn't yet confident in the internet services) and the results seemed pretty good, although I had nothing to compare it to. It was only $135 at that time.
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Mackabee
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Mackabee
I have seen an influx of buyers with pre-approved drafts from peoplesbank.com though.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Ed
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Mackabee
Instead of asking for the Dealer's *Best Price*...Ask the Internet Manager if she/he can
meet the customer's Best/Target Price.
And if there is a trade; obviously an accurate number is only a guess or Ball Park number; so there has to be personal contact...That trade has to be seen, touched and driven. Why would anyone think otherwise.
It seems that those with trades have forgotten that the normal practice is for the *Seller* to put a price on the car, and in those situations that are more desperate...the Tag Line..."Or Best Offer". I can't imagine the reaction of most who are trying to sell anything getting really excited about someone saying..."What will you take?" "Well, I see that you are asking $475,000 for your Home...What's your *Best Price*"? What kind of reaction do you think that will bring?
Now, a house is a one of a kind type of thing and a car certainly is not, but it would seem to me that if one is in the market for a car; it should come as no surprise that there is a great deal more involved than simply the price of the car itself. Bottom fishing for a price is never a very effective methodology regardless of the item. But questions like "How am I going to be taken care of tomorrow?" Who is going to help me if I have a problem?", never seem to be considered. Service & Customer Care after the sale have always come at a premium...It's the difference between Nordstrom's & Costco. And yet,
there seems to be an attitude out there today where some Car Buyers
are looking for a Costco Price & Nordstrom's Service...
Where did that come from???
If I'm incorrect, I'd be interested in another point of view. How much power does a salesperson really have after a sale?
And how do I find such a salesperson at a given dealership? If I think the guy I'm dealing with is an amateur, do I say "Sorry - I want to talk to someone else"? Sounds like a good way to get on a dealer's ****list.
If you are dealing with a Retail/Line Sales Rep then your concerns are well founded. If, however;
you are dealing with the Manager of the Internet
Dept. you are most probably dealing with an individual that has been around for awhile and will most probably be there for you in the future.
People tend to stay in positive, fulfilling environments. 5 Months ago I left a store that is drowning in malaise, and where there was/is no *Passion for the Brand*. After 7 Model years
trying to motivate both Management & Employees to no avail, and after a 2 year courtship I moved
to a place where 7 years makes you a recruit. Both of our General Sales Managers, one VW and one Suzuki/Hyundai have been on board for almost 30 years divided by 2. Senior Service Advisor for Volkswagen...15 years. Inventory-Detail Manager/10 years...F&I Director/11 years...And so it goes.
Interview the people you are dealing with...
A seasoned Sales Professional will get things done for you...Why? Because that person creates
revenue for the Dealer Principal...And because of fact that I use the word Professional I am saying that he/she will also command respect from the Service Dept. and things will get done...When? NOW!!!!
How do you find this person? If you want to buy in the traditional way; call the Dealership and ask for the General Sales Manager...tell Her/Him
that you would like to deal with the Senior/Best
Sales Representative he employs and explain why.
If you are buying on-line...Interview that Internet contact...if you know more than the person you are speaking with...see Plan *A*...Or go to another store..
It so happens that I'm presently involved in a dispute with a dealer - they charged me for some work and insisted it wasn't a warranty item, I later learned that it was a warranty item, they admitted it but are giving me the run-around about a refund. The car is 7 years old, the management has changed, and no one wants to take responsibility or talk to me. I'd like to think that the saleswoman I bought it from could help me, but she was gone years ago. So I remain a skeptic.
The lesson is that we live in such a mobile society - dealers change, salespeople move on, customers relocate - that it can be difficult to establish long-term business relationships. And I can see a salesperson getting excited about a customer who buys every year or two, but not a boring customer like me who only buys every 5-10 years.
That said, I'm intrigued by your comments and may act on them - previously, I've always just dealt with the first salesperson to greet me. Also, until I saw this Edmunds article, I had never heard of an internet sales manager.
It's regrettable that people on both sides of the aisle have had so many negative experiences. I'm afraid that the car-buying, selling, and maintaining experience is uniquely complicated and difficult.
Steve.
Thanks.
The only possible reason is that people feel that
it is like checking out at the supermarket...and all they want is to get what they came for and leave...
We are putting sourcing monitors in place to prevent this from happening...will let you know how that goes.
I really enjoyed my internet buying experience. The main difference that I found was that I had a good price upfront('03 Accord in OCT. 750 over invoice or 1500 below MSRP), straight up talking, he never gave me a quote on my TBlazer, said he needed to inspect it first, which is understandable, and when I went in, it took about 1hour to get the callbacks on the trade. Eventually we were about 200 apart, so he took it off the price. Total time including the initial phone call was like 4hour including the delivery, test drive, etc. Very pleasurable experience, and no tricks. Probably do it again next time, too bad the salesperson got promoted.
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Mackabee
Had I been buying a car that was more available, I'm sure this wouldn't have been such an issue, but for high-demand cars like the CR-V, I didn't feel like anyone was looking out for me until I actually walked into a dealer and initiated contact with a salesman. When I did that, I got to see the delivery list for the dealer for CR-V's, I got to see the waiting list, I got a realistic timeframe and now I actually believe I'll get a CR-V within 2 weeks.
What would've helped me here? A better qualifying process. With high-demand cars (like the CR-V), new models, and signifigant redesigns, perhaps dealers could put their delivery lists on their web pages, with the ability for consumers to put down a deposit immediately using a credit card. This would then take the car off the list, and put their name on it (and of course, would qualify them). Naturally a follow-up from the Internet Manager would be required, and lots of little asteriks would be there telling the consumer that delivery times are only estimates, that the final price is determined at a later time, etc... Is this impossible for some reason?
Whether your looking at a G35, 4 Runner, CR-V, Sequoia, these vehicles go fast, especially the SUV's this time of the year ..
*until I actually walked into a dealer and initiated contact with a salesman. -
You just answered your own question, you needed to get involved in the buying process, if you don't, someone else will. The Net is a wonderful means of information, it's changed a lot of things in everyones lives, but a big demand on Any product gets the 1st ones in and everyone else, might just be on the outside looking in.
Terry.
After that, I figured I'd rather not spend 2 hours at every dealer, unless they had my car, or gave me an impression they could get it in a reasonable timeframe. The dealer that sold the car under me at least boosted my hopes by saying "What I'll do is put your name on the next CR-V that comes in, and swap it for a blue one." I thought immediately, "Why didn't the first dealer that was so adamant not suggest doing that for me?"
This process has been extremely frustrating for a first-time new car purchase. My car's sticker expired, so I'm getting rides everywhere, or borrowing friends or parents cars to get to work everyday. (And no, the old car won't pass inspection, long story) I can't drive anywhere but work like that, and it's kept me grounded at home. I think if more car salesmen realized what a hassle this was for the customer, they'd do what they could to make it easy on us, so that we don't go out and buy the highly stocked, highly discounted competition. I know I've considered doing it about a dozen times.
Frankly, it's not a salesman's job to worry that you waited until you had no car before trying to get a new one. That's a situation that you put yourself in. The salesmen of the high demand cars don't need to make it easy on you. Other people are buying their products. If you aren't willing to step up to the plate then you may have to settle for the highly stocked competition.
It sounds like the salesman you ran into was rude. It also sounds like you may need to grab some spine. I'm assuming that he didn't force you to drive a car you weren't interested in. And I'm assuming that you weren't locked inside the dealership with him for those 2 hours. If a salesman doesn't accept a polite "No, thank-you" then that's his problem. Feel free to walk out at that point.
If you can't live without a CRV in blue, how about this: Spend a few minutes on the phone and ask if the store has a CRV in blue. If someone says yes, get in a cab and go buy it.
To bring it back on topic, how often do Internet Salesmen typically check and answer emails? I noticed one night when I emailed about about a half-dozen dealers using the forms on their websites, only 1 responded the next day, 4 after 2 days, and 1 waited 4 days. What's typical or reasonable? What's the volume of email a typical Internet Salesman will get in a given day?