When are you going to learn that recommending the use of a TACO for towing a 3500 pound trailer in mountains of 10,000 feet is not only ignorant, but dangerous as well. The fact that you and the person who asked for recommendations both rule out diesels, does not make the Taco the best remaining choice. Now, go complain to the moderator that I used the word IGNORANT when replying to you, again. Tom
I had nothing to be embarassed about in the other topic. You are the one who can't read, and then delete posts because your shorts are showing. Did you get your mommy to read the post in the other topic to you? I don't have any problem understanding that you recommended a TACO V6 S/C for towing 3500 pounds in 10,000 ft mountains and said there was nothing better being offered by the Chevy and Ford guys. You best leave the advice about towing in the mountains to guys that have towed more than a wagon behind their tricycle. I have wasted too much of my time responding to you. I won't make that mistake again. You are a joke. And, I would consider a true 3/4 ton Toyota if it had true 3/4 ton capabilities. Tom
I can say Hummer. But then I'd have to say "to heck with the creditors, I'm riding in style!" Then I'd file for bankruptcy. The Hum's a fine machine, and (in my limited perception) its got a reputation for a rough and tuff and probably reliable, go all/do all. But for $83k+ (civilian model), it had better be. I'd hate to price a military version. Probably triple the cost of the civilian. No cup holders, but hey you get the fancy 50 cal machine gun mount! Unless I win the lotto or someone wills me a Chevy dealership that I can then turnaround and sell, I'm sticking with the next best thing - drumroll please.....A TOYOTA!
I agree with you. Of the various countries that I have visited, both third world and first world, I did not see ANY American made trucks. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough or didn't notice, but I did not see one! Firstly, you are right in that the cost to operate a domestic abroad is higher because of parts availability and lack of authorized mechanic shops as well as probably the cost to purchase due to trade tariffs. Secondly, the perception that the world has about american autos is that they suck and breakdown too often, and that the Japanese made auto is very reliable.
American cars in Saudi Arabia hold the same prestige as Mercedes does here. The well to do families pay TOP $$$$ to import large American sedans and SUV's. Suburbans were a favorite last time I saw a story on this.
Tariffs, dealer networks, trade imbalance and a general distaste of AMERICA(not American cars) is what causes the POS toys(again, not the same product available here) to dominate an otherwise wothless market.
As far as European countries and domestic trucks.......does $5+ a gallon for gas mean anything???
<< The well to do families pay TOP $$$$ to import large American sedans and SUV's. Suburbans were a favorite last time I saw a story on this. >>
How many "well-to-do families" are there in relation to the general population in Saudi Arabia? 1% if you're lucky...
Maybe the rest of the world has a more realistic grasp of what trucks should be. Their decisions are much more based on "economics" (what it costs to buy, own and operate), than on "image."
>How many "well-to-do families" are there in relation to the general population in Saudi Arabia? 1% if you're lucky.<
No poverty. Government subsidized housing, (or free housing), subsidized education and healthcare, and the cheapest gas prices in the world. Saudi is a very small population, but very wealthy per capita. They are not Afghanis.
what about the rest of the world? Africa? Australia? Asia? South America? Full-size American pickups are few and far in between. They're just too large, and too expensive to own and to operate.
is GM/Ford doesn't bother with economies that can't support the product. I believe australia has a large Ford/GM(holden) base. Not the same products as here ( just like toy) but I've seen a documentary with some vetrenarian(sp?) traveling the bush in a Ford that looked funky.
The Turtle Expedition travels the most grueling non-roads in the world. Vehicle of choice????
Ford F-series.
The gist I'm getting here is the down trodden poor countries HAVE to drive toys......Ok, let's be like them!!!
just like Ford or Chevy are "imports" in Asia, Africa, etc. Yet Toyota, etc. sell worldwide, and our domestic pickups don't. There are more factors at work here than just tariffs. Yeah, they don't like American pickups, and it has more to do than whether they like our politics.
As I said, they're too expensive to operate. If GM, Ford and Dodge offered 1/2 tons with diesels, well then that might change.
On my "worldwide" tour last year, the Baltic..Russia, Finland, Estonia, Belgium, Netherlands, France, Sweden, Norway, I didn't see pickups of ANY manufacturer, be it Nissan, Toyota. They just may not consider them practical. Panel vans are another story. Most every family car has a hitch, and that seems to be the vehicle of choice for the street vendors to pull the kiosk behind the Audi. Other problems are narrow streets, limited parking, and expensive gasoline.
I saw about as many or more domestic pickups as any other, but darn few of any brand. I had other things to do than count cars, but it seemed to me that Japanese cars weren't all that plentiful in Europe either. An American muscle car, vintage Mustang, is VERY prized.
Regardless of what they drive or don't, I wouldn't trade our way of life to be like them.
Japan hasn't made a huge dent in Europe, although they are gaining ground each year. They're much more plentiful in Asia (naturally), Australia, and Africa.
Of all the other continents, I'd say Australia, and perhaps South America, have the highest percentage of American pickups. Perhaps the Mid East too? Even so, I'd say there is a much larger Japanese truck presence in those markets than there is an American truck presence.
which is why diesels are so popular. I just read that this past year, roughly 35% of cars (not trucks, but "cars") sold in the UK were diesels. Virtually all taxis are diesels. I'm sure this is pretty much true in other countries too, especially 3rd world countries.
the Discovery channel the other day and they had a feature about Antartica. During the course of the program, it showed Icelandic (sic?) explorers in Antartica four-wheeling with Toyota Landcruisers with huge, aired-down tires. Apparently, these hardcore explorers chose Toyota when equipment and its reliability mean the difference between life and death.
As far as what sells overseas...nothing "domestic" has been a world best seller like the VW Bug or Toyota Corolla. Go figure.
Gee, the explorers in the Turtle Expedition must not worry about life and death. What's funny is the truck used in the Turtle Expedition YOU CAN BUY HERE.
Click "vehicles" at the top of the page. hmmmmmmmmm....No toys.
I saw the same Discovery program that you did. Did you forget the part of the program where they completely outfitted almost the entire Toyota Landcruisers with different and better equipment to handle the Antartic trip? They were far from being what you and I could buy at a local dealer.
Don't shoot the messenger, if you don't like the message.
It has nothing to to do with whether I (or others) have an anti-American sentiment or not. The fact is, outside of North America our domestic pickups are few and far in between. There are real reasons for that, much of which are related to economics, and/or related to the fact that they are not well suited to other markets because of their large size. They are often viewed by the locals as being too large and too inefficient (costly) to operate.
And for the record, if I were in the market for a new pickup today, my choice would probably be a new Dodge Ram, with the Silverado and Tundra on the short list too, and in that order of preference.
I agree, Americans have a penchant for size and power that is unique to America. Other countries don't even understand it. economics is the reason our trucks are rare outside the U.S.
Over the internet the "tone" does not come across well.
Your reasoning I agree with. It's the theory that the only reason toys are in these far off lands is because they're such superior vehicles overall, to this I say BS.
For their needs, the those vehicles are superior. You can't rule out the economics of the situation. If a large American pickup is too large to negotiate narrow streets and allys, then a smaller vehicle is superior. If gas or diesel fuel is triple what we pay, then those smaller vehicles are superior.
People buy what suits their needs best. So it all depends on your definition of what superior is. By your definition, American trucks are better. If, however, you lived in an area where the streets are narrow and it costs (you) over $100.00 every time to fill your tank, you might have a different perspective as to what is best.
Just be happy that you're lucky enough to live in America, where there are good wide roads and gas is cheap.
Well...I'd not go as far as say the roads are good. I've had my share of driving in Missouri on I70, and in some places it's dangerous to speed because you might just hit a pothole and send your car flying down the side. The roads are still better than in other countries, but I'd not call them good.
Obviously certain vehicles fit the needs of certain countries/environments better. I wouldn't want a convertible in Alaska.
You've come here spouting obvious reasons why certain vehicles are chosen over others in a region. To this I've NEVER argued.
It's when toy zeolots come here spouting it's life or death and only a toy will make it or my toy is soooo tough because the taliban uses 'em without looking at all the factors that you(and I thought I) have brought up is when it gets real deeep.
If you look closely at that picture, you will see Chebby tranny shrapnel under the lead truck. The one on the trailer was on the way to the shop to get its allison tranny replaced(again!).
I'm sorry that I didn't correctly identify the trucks in your poor quality picture. The one on the trailer looked like the large-mouthed bass look of a GMC. Now you are telling me it is a Furd Stuporduty? They are both incredibly ugly, but then that is a different topic.
haha i am taking bets now as to if bama will ever answer my question or keep scooting around it.
Funny story
I once seen a tundra hauling a four runner on a flatbed trailer. He pulled into the same toll rest plaza as me. He pulled up alongside of me. Honest to god his receiver was 1" from dragging on the ground. He got out and was looking at the rear end shook his head and went in to eat. Funny thing was my gf said "I think he needs a bigger truck"
Trolls don't answer questions,debate,or give factual information,so I'll answer for him.Yes Tundra will tow 7k+ but it'll warp the rotors when you TRY to stop,and don't try to go uphill. kip
Funny fact: On Chebby V8s you have to buy different tires and suspension just to be able to tow over 5000#. You can't buy a Tundra that will tow less than 7100#. Those wimperados obviously weren't designed to be worked. They can haul a couple of bags of groceries well. With that spacious back seat, they are perfect for soccer moms.
Muddy, The Tacoma was out WAYYYY before the new style Stuporduty and F150s. I consider it a compliment that Furd chose to copy Toyota. GM should do the same.
KG - My original brakes work great. In fact they easily outbrake any Chebby. In a Motor Trend comparison, they preferred the Tundra brakes over the Chev 1500HD. Chev had a lot of nerve calling it a "HD". Just another Chev grocery getter.
Comments
Now, go complain to the moderator that I used the word IGNORANT when replying to you, again.
Tom
You have not been reading and comprehending my posts.
I have been stating since the beginning of MR12's posts that turbodiesels are a good choice.
MR12 has said that he does not want a diesel.
I can understand him because I currently own a turbodiesel and it is very expensive to purchase and maintain.
Please read this info again.
I'm sure you can eventually get it! Good Luck!
And, I would consider a true 3/4 ton Toyota if it had true 3/4 ton capabilities.
Tom
Tariffs, dealer networks, trade imbalance and a general distaste of AMERICA(not American cars) is what causes the POS toys(again, not the same product available here) to dominate an otherwise wothless market.
As far as European countries and domestic trucks.......does $5+ a gallon for gas mean anything???
How many "well-to-do families" are there in relation to the general population in Saudi Arabia? 1% if you're lucky...
Maybe the rest of the world has a more realistic grasp of what trucks should be. Their decisions are much more based on "economics" (what it costs to buy, own and operate), than on "image."
Bob
No poverty. Government subsidized housing, (or free housing), subsidized education and healthcare, and the cheapest gas prices in the world. Saudi is a very small population, but very wealthy per capita. They are not Afghanis.
Bob
The Turtle Expedition travels the most grueling non-roads in the world. Vehicle of choice????
Ford F-series.
The gist I'm getting here is the down trodden poor countries HAVE to drive toys......Ok, let's be like them!!!
Mod answered that better than I can in post #158.
As I said, they're too expensive to operate. If GM, Ford and Dodge offered 1/2 tons with diesels, well then that might change.
Bob
I saw about as many or more domestic pickups as any other, but darn few of any brand. I had other things to do than count cars, but it seemed to me that Japanese cars weren't all that plentiful in Europe either. An American muscle car, vintage Mustang, is VERY prized.
Regardless of what they drive or don't, I wouldn't trade our way of life to be like them.
Of all the other continents, I'd say Australia, and perhaps South America, have the highest percentage of American pickups. Perhaps the Mid East too? Even so, I'd say there is a much larger Japanese truck presence in those markets than there is an American truck presence.
Bob
Bob
Lack of market
lack of diesel offerings
Extreme gas prices
(I still believe anti-American sentiment has a vote)
Quad has made the best statement yet, last sentence #166.
BUILT TOY TOUGH........NOPE.
BEST BUILT, LONGEST LASTING...NOPE.
How about; THE CHOICE OF THIRD WORLD NATIONS(and gnomes) EVERYWHERE!!!
Toyz RULE!!!
As far as what sells overseas...nothing "domestic" has been a world best seller like the VW Bug or Toyota Corolla. Go figure.
http://www.off-road.com/tlc/body_styles/
Gee, the explorers in the Turtle Expedition must not worry about life and death. What's funny is the truck used in the Turtle Expedition YOU CAN BUY HERE.
Click "vehicles" at the top of the page. hmmmmmmmmm....No toys.
http://www.turtleexpedition.com/
BTW, the Escort was the world's best selling vehicle during its run(not cumulative, I'd bet the Model T may still hold that distinction.)
Nothing special about toys, they're just cars like the rest of 'em.....except for my Cobra which I'm mourning the loss of as I type.
Did you forget the part of the program where they completely outfitted almost the entire Toyota Landcruisers with different and better equipment to handle the Antartic trip?
They were far from being what you and I could buy at a local dealer.
It has nothing to to do with whether I (or others) have an anti-American sentiment or not. The fact is, outside of North America our domestic pickups are few and far in between. There are real reasons for that, much of which are related to economics, and/or related to the fact that they are not well suited to other markets because of their large size. They are often viewed by the locals as being too large and too inefficient (costly) to operate.
And for the record, if I were in the market for a new pickup today, my choice would probably be a new Dodge Ram, with the Silverado and Tundra on the short list too, and in that order of preference.
Bob
Your reasoning I agree with. It's the theory that the only reason toys are in these far off lands is because they're such superior vehicles overall, to this I say BS.
People buy what suits their needs best. So it all depends on your definition of what superior is. By your definition, American trucks are better. If, however, you lived in an area where the streets are narrow and it costs (you) over $100.00 every time to fill your tank, you might have a different perspective as to what is best.
Just be happy that you're lucky enough to live in America, where there are good wide roads and gas is cheap.
Bob
I've had my share of driving in Missouri on I70, and in some places it's dangerous to speed because you might just hit a pothole and send your car flying down the side.
The roads are still better than in other countries, but I'd not call them good.
You've come here spouting obvious reasons why certain vehicles are chosen over others in a region. To this I've NEVER argued.
It's when toy zeolots come here spouting it's life or death and only a toy will make it or my toy is soooo tough because the taliban uses 'em without looking at all the factors that you(and I thought I) have brought up is when it gets real deeep.
Look at the top pic on the left. Gotta love that ground clearance.
"It's when toy zeolots come here spouting" Spoken by a true Furd zealot.(who doesn't know how to spell "zealot") LOL!
"when it gets real deeep." It sure is!
Toyota trucks are legendary for the ruggedness. All I hear is high pitched whining from the Big2 boys. Must be their trannies.
Can your tundra do the following
If by that you mean, "ride on a trailer being pulled by a Chevy", then I think we all know the answer to that!!
Yup, those head gaskets; warped rotors; rusted beds are legendary.
The one on the trailer couldn't POSSIBLY have an Allison. Wonder if BT will figure it out?
Since when did the ford superdutys come with an allison tranmission?
Care to explain this one?
You forgot to answer this question
eagle63 - I just never have liked the way Fords look. They tried to rip off the Tacoma styling and got it wrong. Call it personal preference.
Funny story
I once seen a tundra hauling a four runner on a flatbed trailer. He pulled into the same toll rest plaza as me. He pulled up alongside of me. Honest to god his receiver was 1" from dragging on the ground. He got out and was looking at the rear end shook his head and went in to eat. Funny thing was my gf said "I think he needs a bigger truck"
kip
"eagle63 - I just never have liked the way Fords look. They tried to rip off the Tacoma styling and got it wrong. Call it personal preference."
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Since the Super Duty came out in late '98 as a '99 and the tacoma changed its grill in '01 to copy the SD......Hmmmmm, who's copying whom???
Of course, this self proclaimed truck expert can't even tell a Ford from a GM.
Toy boys should distance themselves, sometimes one bad apple...........
Muddy, The Tacoma was out WAYYYY before the new style Stuporduty and F150s. I consider it a compliment that Furd chose to copy Toyota. GM should do the same.
KG - My original brakes work great. In fact they easily outbrake any Chebby. In a Motor Trend comparison, they preferred the Tundra brakes over the Chev 1500HD. Chev had a lot of nerve calling it a "HD". Just another Chev grocery getter.