is nothing more than a 3/4 ton 2500 model (8600 GVW), badged as a 1/2 ton. Chevy/GMC elected not to badge this as a 2500 model because they thought a "1500" label would appeal more to "families," whereas a "2500" label has a more of a "commercial" ring to it.
They figure commercial customers will more likely buy the 2500HD crew cab, so why not "position" the 1500HD towards the "Harry and Harriet homeowners" instead.
It was a blatant attempt to copy the Tundra. Looks more like the Tundra than SD, anyway. And, well - which would make more sense? As far as the SD copying anything Toyota - ummm, not sure about that one. The 98-00 were the best looking trucks ever, IMO. But there EVERY truck these days has its good points styling-wise. With the exception of the new dodges and ASSalanches. What were those people thinking. Anyone see that the 03 Silverados and Sierras will get the Avalanche front end and fenders? Doesn't look too bad without all the plastic.
I honestly believe that the GM boys are just simply jealous of the Tundra's reliability, no other way to explain it. I'm not gonna say that Chevs. aren't capable of towing or 4X4, because they certainly seem very able. However I think if the Toyota trucks would just start exhibiting engine knocking, tranny failures, shaking cabs., and an all around lack of quality ... then the GM boys wouldn't be so insecure. I can only wait to see the day when Toyota trucks outsell GM = ) .
"I can only wait to see the day when Toyota trucks outsell GM"
Way to keep up that good ole' American spirit.
Tundra profits going overseas, Avalanche assembly jobs going south of the border. Can't say I'd be proud of either one. However, the profits and assembly of my troublefree 2001 Silverado stayed in the USA. Now that is something to be proud of.
By the way, can you please thank your wonderful CA government for the 130% increase in my power bill. I'm glad we here in WA could accommodate your greedy demands!!
My issue with Toyota / GM is a quality issue and has nothing to do with American revenue vs. foreign. Hey, I'm all for supporting the American cause. Plenty of things I own, tools, appliances etc. are produced in the good ole USA.
I'd have to consult Bama or others who keep better tabs, but I do believe theres a few American automobiles produced outside the US, which seems totally inexcusable from a patriotic standpoint. Its kind of a moot point to argue buy American when the American giants themselves CHOOSE to do business elsewhere. It is their choice however.
How much money do American tourists willingly spend in other lands ??? I've never heard anyone bothered by that.
As far as your electric increase, hey join the club. I for one am not going to defend this state. The people here are just as greedy as the utilities themselves. I plan on moving out of here within the next year as it is. My gas bill increased 85% last year, electric increased as well. Prices on everything seem to find a way to creep up here. Hey if you think you have it bad up there, come live down here for a while. I'm thinking you'd be quick to change your mind, for many reasons.
By the way, I'm glad to hear your Chevy is troublefree. I don't know too many of them that are. Not too many trucks period that are.
tundras do have engine knock and the rotors warp but I guess those are only minor annoyances.
Dch, how did GM's profits(or Ford's for that matter) "stay in the USA" if they use those profits to build factories in Mexico???
Unless I'm a stock holder, I could care less where the profits go UNLESS they are going back directly in to the US economy, ie; building factories that employ US trades and auto workers.
If you look at the '01 taco grill they tried to create the effect of 3 separate grills. The one main center and a smaller grill on each side of the main grill. If you look at a Super Duty, it also has 3 separate grills...only 2+ years earlier.
The tundra has the one grill and I actually think it's a good looking truck(don't tell blama) There is an edition(?) of a tundra that is monochromatic where the grill is the same color of the truck. I don't know if it's custom or factory but I think that's a real sharp looker
It is an Ivan Stewart TRD edition truck. I think next year they are gonna make one with the new blower for the 4.7 in addition to the different body panels and all. Downside, a $40k pricetag. As far as the 3 grill separations, I've never noticed that feature. That big flat nose is a feature of HD trucks, and one that I doubt would intentionally be copied on a compact. I do admit there is some resemblance, just doubt that it was meant to be that way. Hell, if Ford and Yota would trade a few more features, I think we would be well on our way to the perfect truck. L8r
I did live in the LA area, but only for two years (1988-1990). Did not like the smog, superficial and greedy people, nor the super fast pace everyone seemed to be in. Did like the weather (wash your car and it stays clean for months), the fact that most people KNOW how to drive, and buying fresh fruit/vegetables at the stands in the fields.
Anyway, can we thank NAFTA for moving jobs across the borders? I'm not happy with GM for choosing to build the Avalanche in Mexico, and I will never buy and Av. for that reason. Wonder what the average GM Mexican assembly worker makes per hour compared to the unionized GM US assembly worker? Anyone have an answer for this?
Also, build 1.8 million trucks and you are going to get some lemons. Even if only 3% of those GM trucks that are built have problems, that makes 54,000 lemons. And when those owners complain loudly about their trucks it can seem like a lot, but for the overall number of those trucks made, it is not. I, like many satisfied owners, do not go around parading loudly on every web site nor in every chat room about how good my truck has been and that it has been so troublefree. And because of that, our 1.746 million voices are seldom heard.
"Tundra profits going overseas, Avalanche assembly jobs going south of the border."
-actually, the profits generally go to the shareholders, the bulk of which I would suspect are American institutions. (mutual fund companies, investment banks, pension funds, etc.)
"Wonder what the average GM Mexican assembly worker makes per hour compared to the unionized GM US assembly worker? Anyone have an answer for this?"
-Newsweek had an article on this about a year ago. I don't remember the numbers, but it's a fraction of what US union workers make. (of course, the cost of living is much lower in Mexico obviously) Interestingly, the mexican plants had less overall production defects than the US plants.
"Unless I'm a stock holder, I could care less where the profits go UNLESS they are going back directly in to the US economy, ie; building factories that employ US trades and auto workers."
Hey buddy, don't worry, the unrelenting repair bills for the GM products will help foster the US economy by employing more and more GM mechanics, matter of fact more and more mechanics in general. Don't you feel good about that??? ROTFLMFAO!!!
When I brought the Lexus in for service last week, the promised loaner was unavailable. Seems they had a mad rush at the service dept....Just realized, I've spent more time in the Lexus service lounge in the last 5 months than I have for all my Fords. Talk about irony.
I agree with you regarding complaints vs. units produced with regards to GM. It will be interesting to see, when number of Tundras on road is similar to Rados and others for that matter, and then note the different complaints and severity. I would hope Toyota's numbers would remain slightly better, but if nothing else close.
Hey if you thought L.A. was smoggy 12 years ago, you should come back lol. Anyone who has been to Bakersfield knows that the air there isn't exactly clear, downright dirty at times if you ask me. Funny that a recent report labeled L.A.s air quality as 14 times worse !!! than Bakersfield, piece of mind for ya.
As far as moving, Denver won my heart the few times I've visited. Heck after you've lived here for quite some time, ANYWHERE is an improvement. Your area would seem to be nice as well. I do need a big enough of a city to find a quality fire dept. though, so Denver area fits. Not to mention I hear the people are friendlier. And finally, I have to be able to go to Toyota dealer with Quad and be first to congradulate him on his new Tundra purchase = ).
From what I know, yes Tundras do have engine knock but for most part seems to be during cold / startup conditions and only lasts half minute or less. Im sure Ndahi, Jules, Bama, and others can better attest to engine knock. None of the Tundra owners I personally know, 5 of them, have had engine knock. When I refer to GM engine knock, it pertains to knock that occurs in warm engine and is more consistent. There is after all, a whole thread dealing with GM engine knock and many posts to go with.
This isn't to say it doesn't or will not happen in Tundra's, as that is always a possibility. I'm also not saying that all GMs or even the majority knock, but a significant amount do. As far as warped rotors, yes this is a documented Tundra problem, one of the few persistent ones. Hopefully they will come up with a better solution.
Given the number of Rados on road vs. Tundra, its expected that Chevs. will have more reported problems. I still maintain belief that Toyota quality for most part is superior to many makes. To hear a Toyota went 200,000 miles wouldn't be such a suprise. To hear a GM did, well thats more of an eye opener.
TWOWHEELER - Is that engine knockin yet or any warped rotors. I like your theory of GM keepin American money American lol.
Did a business trip for several days in Denver about a year ago. It was snowing, raining, and cold (compared to LA). But the air was fresher, people seemed friendlier, and the traffic wasn't as bad. Well, it was still pretty bad in Denver. Home of the John - forgot his last name(the QB that played for the Broncos forever) car dealerships. Not sure if he has a Toyota dealership though.
BTW, Houston has the worst ozone air pollution at the moment. LA is second. But LA has come along way from the previous several decades. Still is above EPA standards for several pollutants such as particulate matter and NOx.
Pretty creepy to look out the window and think that THIS L.A. is better than the old L.A. lol. Ya I've read thru the numbers too, maybe it is getting better, the traffic however ... NEVER. Still number one in congestion and lovin it. BTW, don't think Elway has a Toyota dealership there from what I remember, he's too much of an American boy for that.
Hey glad to hear no probs. with truck. I'd hate for you to get stuck in the same Toyota dealership that Mods. been growing gray in lol. Cheers
Had the Lexus since Oct. It's a nice car but like I've been trying to say FOREVER (in regards to toy) is it aint the car to end all cars like some toy fanatics want to believe. Lexus was more of an emotional purchase for the wife....I wanted the Lincoln LS and 0% financing!!!
The toy ABS clunk is present, 2 recalls and the oil is a PITA to change.
Emt, dang!!! Thought you almost saw the light!!
"Given the number of Rados on road vs. Tundra, its expected that Chevs. will have more reported problems. I still maintain belief that Toyota quality for most part is superior to many makes. To hear a Toyota went 200,000 miles wouldn't be such a suprise. To hear a GM did, well thats more of an eye opener."
They're all just cars and trucks. Whatever floats your boat is the best vehicle at the time.
It was rare for a truck to last to 200K without an overhaul - BACK IN 1960's. Today most trucks (if maintained) can go 200K and beyond. In my case the mechanical parts - engine, tranny will last longer than the interior. That is the main reason I traded my last truck - the seats were worn out, dash had a crack - even the steering wheel was worn out. Truck was 13 years old and had about 130K - still ran great.
You had a problem with your Lexus. Poor baby! Therefore all Lexuses (Lexi?)are junk.
You have had no problems with you Furd Stupidity. All Furds are Great!
By you reasoning, all Lexus owners should trade them in immediately on a Furd Stupidity. After all - the Furd Stupiditys must be more reliable and better quality.
Man! the Furd zealots are taking over, and it is getting deeeeeep!
Given the number of Rados / Sierras and other GM trucks on road, I would expect to at least hear about a few that have hit 200,000 on original drivetrain. I don't know anyone personally in many of my years, including my few years in the shop, that have boasted an original GM with 200K or better. Ya I know they're out there. So yes, to me thats an eye opener. Agreed that back in the old days it was far more uncommon.
There's still plenty of old timers who say that the engines now a days don't last as long as those of old. I find it to be just opposite when properly maintained. For Toyota having such a small portion of the truck market, their percentage of 200,000 + mile trucks exceeds GMs.
I agree that in present times, many of the interior contents seem to break before drivetrain. Yours had 130K but theres no proof that it would have ever lasted 200, very well could have since you say it was running good.
I guess I was out enjoying driving around in my Tundra, while you were begrudingly servicing the wife's upscale Toyota. Actually, I only purchased the Tundra about a month ago (sold my problem-free Nissan truck) and that's about when I started understanding the tremendous anti-toyota truck sediment that plagues toy truck owners. Yeah, the 0% financing would have been great. I briefly considered buying a Silverado with the 0% financing (plus many dealers were discounting the trucks up to $5-6k on the ad trucks). But I shrugged off the sugar-coated carrot they were wielding with visions of future pocket and time depleting repair trips to the mechanic. Also considered the F150 but didn't like the crash test results. Didn't like the Dodge. No Nissan "big truck" so, the Tundra was it, although it was a leading contender throughout my evaluation.
I think it's great that you have minimal problems with the fords you have(?) I've also got a '91 5.0 (original owner) thats been fairly trouble-free and the motor is pretty bullet proof unless you double the horsepower and redline it on every shift (doubling the horses are easy to do since there's a crapload of aftermarket pieces out there for the 5.0/4.6. Ford Racing even has a huffer for it that's 50 states legal that I'm seriously considering). What kind of ford vehicles do you have?
I sold the 130K truck to a guy at work (maintenance manager). It was a birthday gift for his 16 year old grandson, that was about 3 years ago - last time I ask he had added about 55K and was trying to work a deal to trade it in on a Mustang. Still ran OK, but he said the kid "drove the hell out of it" and that I would not recognize it if it drove past me on the street. Lift kit, 33" tires, brush guard, paint job.
Good to see a fellow stang owner and cycle rider(?).
I have the Super Duty and 2 early Broncos (one is a basket case) My boy and I are building an '84 with a mild 351 and an AOD with a Stallion convertor. There's a list of other mods if you're interested. We are welding the in floor subs this weekend and it's a PITA not having a lift. I weld like crap laying on my back. LOL!!!
The Cobra was sold this week and the wife, boy and I actually shed a tear or two. It was that good/fun of a car.
As far as the anti-toy sentiment it's the old adage of what came first, the chicken or the egg?
I honestly believe the majority of toy owners run around on some superiority(inferiority?) complex and rip domestics in general. Some of 'em even go as far to call other toy owners liars if they report a problem with their toy. Others can't believe when a domestic owner has never had a problem with their vehicle.
Not that my way is the right way but I don't base any decision on magazines or internet BS. The SD with rebates won over the GM HD. The Cobra was an emotional/fun decision, The Broncos go in the fun category and like the stang there is unlimited aftermarket support for them. The '84 stang was an original 4 cylinder car and should be ez to insure for a 16 year old.
The Lexus was 100% emotional, wife fell in love type deal. The car's interior is gorgeous and except for the initial clunk it is VERY quiet. But I didn't get it cause it was a toy...If the wife liked the Infinity or small Jag or BMW better that's what she would have got.
Do you have any facts to back up the statement you made in post #227... "For Toyota having such a small portion of the truck market, their percentage of 200,000 + mile trucks exceeds GMs." I don't agree. What do you base your statement on? Tom
Good to see a fellow stang owner and cycle rider(?).
I have the Super Duty and 2 early Broncos (one is a basket case) My boy and I are building an '84 with a mild 351 and an AOD with a Stallion convertor. There's a list of other mods if you're interested. We are welding the in floor subs this weekend and it's a PITA not having a lift. I weld like crap laying on my back. LOL!!!
The Cobra was sold this week and the wife, boy and I actually shed a tear or two. It was that good/fun of a car.
As far as the anti-toy sentiment it's the old adage of what came first, the chicken or the egg?
I honestly believe the majority of toy owners run around on some superiority(inferiority?) complex and rip domestics in general. Some of 'em even go as far to call other toy owners liars if they report a problem with their toy. Others can't believe when a domestic owner has never had a problem with their vehicle.
Not that my way is the right way but I don't base any decision on magazines or internet BS. The SD with rebates won over the GM HD. The Cobra was an emotional/fun decision, The Broncos go in the fun category and like the stang there is unlimited aftermarket support for them. The '84 stang was an original 4 cylinder car and should be ez to insure for a 16 year old.
The Lexus was 100% emotional, wife fell in love type deal. The car's interior is gorgeous and except for the initial clunk it is VERY quiet. But I didn't get it cause it was a toy...If the wife liked the Infinity or small Jag or BMW better that's what she would have got.
What I'm trying to convey to blama is that there is no perfect automobile..not even the upscale division of toy which some seem to worship.
Poor blama, trying to convince everyone that toy is the only choice. The goof would try to tell you if you took 2 wheels off a corolla it would be the best motorcycle.
I feel your pain on the loss of the Cobra. The '84 sounds like a great project. 351 power should keep those pesky Camaros at bay. If I ever sold the '91 GT (and 99.99% sure I never will unless forced to), I think I'd be a bit depressed. But its pretty much my play/project car now and I plan to pump several $k into it in performance enhancements over the next several years.
Bikes have been a part of my life over the last 25 years. But with so much to do and too little time now, the bikes (one rice rocket, one dual sport, one dirt only enduro) collect their share of dust. Oh to be a teenager again!
I like all types of vehicles be it cars, trucks, bikes, domestics, import, whatever. The Tundra did it for me since one of the deciding factors was that it actually fits nicely in my garage. I don't care if its a little smaller than the competition. It suits my needs just fine.
I find that this forum is simply just entertainment to me. It's fun to read what others have to say, then dishing it out with the best of them. Good luck on the Stang project.
It's been a few years since I left the engine shop I worked at. Since we dealt with primarily engine overhauls, we would get all kinds of news, stats, and related info about the different engine makes (GM, Ford, Toyota etc.). I don't recall exactly what publication it was, but every few months we would get stats about engine mileages and so on. Toyota, Nissan, and Honda were consistently noted for having original engines in excess of 200,000 miles.
Now the stats were somewhat generalized, something to effect of 100K+, 200K+, 300K+ and so on. Heres the variable ... these records were based on customers voluntarily reporting mileages which were later verified, and dealers who verified these mileages on routine service visits as well as trade-ins etc. . Toyota and Honda were usually on top followed by Nissan then the domestics scattered in. This was true for autos and trucks.
To be honest, the stats were good for promotions, but there were quite a few variables involved, so we took them with a chunk of salt. I have no idea how many dealers were even participating, or much else any of the other particulars. They compared units produced vs. mileages reported and came up with a %. The imports almost always showed a higher % in regards to longevity of engines. I don't think I kept any of that garbage or I'd post a page or two.
I'm not a number cruncher and have stated so time and time again. I prefer real life experiences. Like I said before, I know plenty of Toy owners with 200K+ trucks, I know not one GM owner. I know they exist. The raw number of 200K+ engines may indeed favor GM due to sheer units produced, yet in my post I say percentage, which based on my experiences has usually favored imports.
Well hey, it sounds like you took pretty good care of that good ole truck. Heck, if a kid got his hands on it with over 100k and still managed to put another rough 50k+ on it, sounds like the thing did ok for itself. Thats just about the first story I've heard of a GM truck creeping to 200K with original engine. See I knew they existed !!!
There were numbers for the number crunchers. If I still had them I'd post them. Someone found it lucrative enough to do these studies. Furthermore to sum things up, yes that is indeed my opinion based on experiences. Even if I could find the numbers, which I still might, there just seemed to be too many variables to be fair either way, domestics or imports.
A friend of mine raises Peruvian Pasos(horses).He has a '89 Chev 2500 ex cab LB 4x4.He's one of those annoying people that won't spend the extra $ for a big enough engine if there's a smaller one that can do the job,his truck has a 350.This truck is used to tow a 4 horse trailer and hual more that a ton of hay at a time.I helped him put a new "crate motor"in his truck at 233k last('00)summer.I've never been a big GM fan but his experience made it a lot easier for me to buy one last year.
I sold the Taco in Jan to a close friend.It had 106k+ .It was recalled for head gaskets but I can't see why.I abused the hell out of it and it didn't fail.I never had any trouble with it at all.
This is my first GM ,as I said ,I've never been a GM fan and I'm not too likely to buy another.The engine knocks and I can't imagine that it'll go the 100k GM warrantied it for.
What size engine do you have in your HD. My dad is looking at buying one with the 6.0L. He was planning on getting a 1/2 ton z71, but then saw that the 4wd HD with the 6.0 (not sure on cab size) was just about $1500 more. He basically wanted to know about the mileage I think. He didn't know much about the engine and I told him it was not anemic by any means. Any input on this engine.
I have the 8.1/allison and avg 13+ on the hiway and pretty bad in town (7-8)cuz I got a lead foot.The guys with the 6.0 are getting 14-15.I don't know about city mpg ,but if you're not doing any HEAVY towing the 6.0 is a better choice.The 8.1 requires the Allison which is another $1200.Unloaded the 6.0 is probably as quick and if you supercharge both the 6.0 is quicker according to Whipple.
Considering the engine knock problem, would this be an intelligent thing to do. I mean, how widespread is this problem. I don't wanna steer my dad in the wrong direction and he is one of those who accepts nothing less than getting what he pays for. Know what I mean.
John Elway DOES sell Toyotas out here in Denver on Arapahoe Rd. But please don't blame #7, because they just use his name. He sold all his dealership franchises to that Miami Dolphin owner Wayne Huizinga, boss of AUTONATION.
Come to Denver. I will show you more +200k mile original engine Chevrolets in fifteen minutes than toymotas you'll meet in a lifetime. They are Astro Vans used in commercial duty, many drivers. The fleet average is about 175,000 miles, many over 200k, and some are over 250k. They are equipped with the 4.3L V6, 2/3 the venerable 350 small block.
Well I planned on coming out so we could go to Toyota dealer together and get you all set up big guy. I'd hate for you to be last guy in Co. driving a domestic truck lol. In all seriousness though, I would certainly believe that theres plenty of GMs out there with high mileage still running. Im not an expert with the 4.3L V-6 but it always seemed to be a steady engine, especially in a lot of the Blazers our shop repaired. The 350 speaks for itself time and time again.
As far as showing me more 200K+ Chevs in 15 minutes than Toyotas I'd see in a lifetime ... well lol, Im yet to see a GM with over 200K, plenty of Toyotas though, so theres a bit of catch up to do. Although in the engine shop, we saw a considerable amount of Chevs. with mileages somewhere around low to mid 100s, so I'm sure its possible.
This is solely my opinion here, but it seems one can beat a Toyota up for most part, even with little maintenance, and owners have still come accustomed to usually getting 100K by virtue, and still some above 200K and so on. While I don't doubt Chevs and other GMs alike are capable, it seems in my experience that they require more attention to reach levels routinely attained by Toyota engines. This is why over the many years, the terms "Toyota Quality" and "Toyota Realiability" have come to be.
With exception to the latest sludge controversy, Toyota continues to make a sound product with marked reliability. I welcome any other thoughts regarding performance of domestic engines vs. imports within the realms of this topic.
Lucky you. My uncle had a 1993 S10 Blazer with the 4.3L engine. He drove it all over the states, loaded and towing maybe around 80% max payload/tow. He bought the truck used, and year later sold it to me (needed more payload). I was there when the truck was sold to him. Year later I could not recognize the Blazer anymore, when I was selling it. Yes, it went to 193K miles, mostly highway. In a year that I had it, I had to 1. replace muffler, cat. 2. replace fuel injector unit. 3. distributor cap cracked. 4. starter. 5. ball joints upfront.
By the time I sold it there was audible knock in the engine, fuel stink from the exaust, and an undiagnosed problem with fuel injector unit leaking. Not what I would call a tough truck. It was nice when it worked properly, but in the year that I owned it, I got maybe 2-3 month of actual trouble-free driving. It's left me stranded twice as well.
The first mistake is buying used and expecting new vehicle qualities no matter what make it is. You were the third owner, at minimum.
You were the third owner of a vehicle, boy thats a way to judge a brand of vehicles.
Anyone can go out and be the third owner of just about any car or truck, but to expect it to be like new is rediculous, the first two owners most likely let things go knowing they were going to sell it.
And you never saw a GM go 200,000 miles, you were close, and please dont try to tell everyone that a Toyota would never wear out a muffler or a cat, fuel injector unit, distributor cap, starter, ball joints or anything else on its way to 200,000 or more miles.
I know someone who's Camry had alot of annoying little problems, at @115,000 miles they sold it.
Does that mean all Toyotas will have alot of problems before making it to 115,000 miles?
Using your logic it must.
You were the third owner at best of a Chevy, you had problems, all Chevys must.
So I guess Toyotas cant go past 115,000 miles. Where are these Toyotas that go over 200,000 miles?
They might be out there but I havent seen one they cant exist.
Hey I agree that someone such as yourself who's made an effort to provide good maint. to a vehicle, can expect 100K+, 200K+ and so on. Definitely a good job getting over 300K out of your Chevy. I dont want this turning into a "is it possible" discussion, cause I think that most can agree that most any make will go on and on given right circumstances.
What I'm saying is, in reference to trucks at least. Toyota having such a smaller % of trucks on road, seems to boast a better % of their trucks lasting longer than similar domestics. The sheer numbers should favor the domestics', as they make up a greater % of trucks on road. So no I'm not gonna have a heart attack lol, but I will when it gets to point of domestics outranking imports in reliability.
Comments
Are you guys ready for a Chrysler truck? Rumor has it there may be Chrysler version of the Dodge Ram at the NY Auto Show!
Bob
http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/buzz/b032102.htm
They figure commercial customers will more likely buy the 2500HD crew cab, so why not "position" the 1500HD towards the "Harry and Harriet homeowners" instead.
It's nothing more than "marketing games."
Bob
You shouldn't fib like this. You'd better hope that there are no thunderclouds nearby.
To say a 150 looks like a tacoma past or present would only imply that the poster is dipping into issteel's moonshine.
Way to keep up that good ole' American spirit.
Tundra profits going overseas, Avalanche assembly jobs going south of the border. Can't say I'd be proud of either one. However, the profits and assembly of my troublefree 2001 Silverado stayed in the USA. Now that is something to be proud of.
By the way, can you please thank your wonderful CA government for the 130% increase in my power bill. I'm glad we here in WA could accommodate your greedy demands!!
Keep on truck'in.
I'd have to consult Bama or others who keep better tabs, but I do believe theres a few American automobiles produced outside the US, which seems totally inexcusable from a patriotic standpoint. Its kind of a moot point to argue buy American when the American giants themselves CHOOSE to do business elsewhere. It is their choice however.
How much money do American tourists willingly spend in other lands ??? I've never heard anyone bothered by that.
As far as your electric increase, hey join the club. I for one am not going to defend this state. The people here are just as greedy as the utilities themselves. I plan on moving out of here within the next year as it is. My gas bill increased 85% last year, electric increased as well. Prices on everything seem to find a way to creep up here. Hey if you think you have it bad up there, come live down here for a while. I'm thinking you'd be quick to change your mind, for many reasons.
By the way, I'm glad to hear your Chevy is troublefree. I don't know too many of them that are. Not too many trucks period that are.
Dch, how did GM's profits(or Ford's for that matter) "stay in the USA" if they use those profits to build factories in Mexico???
Unless I'm a stock holder, I could care less where the profits go UNLESS they are going back directly in to the US economy, ie; building factories that employ US trades and auto workers.
The tundra has the one grill and I actually think it's a good looking truck(don't tell blama) There is an edition(?) of a tundra that is monochromatic where the grill is the same color of the truck. I don't know if it's custom or factory but I think that's a real sharp looker
Did not like the smog, superficial and greedy people, nor the super fast pace everyone seemed to be in. Did like the weather (wash your car and it stays clean for months), the fact that most people KNOW how to drive, and buying fresh fruit/vegetables at the stands in the fields.
Anyway, can we thank NAFTA for moving jobs across the borders? I'm not happy with GM for choosing to build the Avalanche in Mexico, and I will never buy and Av. for that reason. Wonder what the average GM Mexican assembly worker makes per hour compared to the unionized GM US assembly worker? Anyone have an answer for this?
Also, build 1.8 million trucks and you are going to get some lemons. Even if only 3% of those GM trucks that are built have problems, that makes 54,000 lemons. And when those owners complain loudly about their trucks it can seem like a lot, but for the overall number of those trucks made, it is not. I, like many satisfied owners, do not go around parading loudly on every web site nor in every chat room about how good my truck has been and that it has been so troublefree. And because of that, our 1.746 million voices are seldom heard.
Where do you plan on moving to once you leave LA?
-actually, the profits generally go to the shareholders, the bulk of which I would suspect are American institutions. (mutual fund companies, investment banks, pension funds, etc.)
"Wonder what the average GM Mexican assembly worker makes per hour compared to the unionized GM US assembly worker? Anyone have an answer for this?"
-Newsweek had an article on this about a year ago. I don't remember the numbers, but it's a fraction of what US union workers make. (of course, the cost of living is much lower in Mexico obviously) Interestingly, the mexican plants had less overall production defects than the US plants.
Seriously;I looked at Tundra 2 years ago and IF it was as overbuilt as the Taco I wouldn't have bought a 3/4 ton
dch0300 RE 1.8 million;I know 3 others with the 8100/Allison and 2 Duramax/Allison.Mine is the only one with ANY problems.Sucks to be me!
kip
Hey buddy, don't worry, the unrelenting repair bills for the GM products will help foster the US economy by employing more and more GM mechanics, matter of fact more and more mechanics in general. Don't you feel good about that??? ROTFLMFAO!!!
When I brought the Lexus in for service last week, the promised loaner was unavailable. Seems they had a mad rush at the service dept....Just realized, I've spent more time in the Lexus service lounge in the last 5 months than I have for all my Fords. Talk about irony.
Hey if you thought L.A. was smoggy 12 years ago, you should come back lol. Anyone who has been to Bakersfield knows that the air there isn't exactly clear, downright dirty at times if you ask me. Funny that a recent report labeled L.A.s air quality as 14 times worse !!! than Bakersfield, piece of mind for ya.
As far as moving, Denver won my heart the few times I've visited. Heck after you've lived here for quite some time, ANYWHERE is an improvement. Your area would seem to be nice as well. I do need a big enough of a city to find a quality fire dept. though, so Denver area fits. Not to mention I hear the people are friendlier. And finally, I have to be able to go to Toyota dealer with Quad and be first to congradulate him on his new Tundra purchase = ).
This isn't to say it doesn't or will not happen in Tundra's, as that is always a possibility. I'm also not saying that all GMs or even the majority knock, but a significant amount do. As far as warped rotors, yes this is a documented Tundra problem, one of the few persistent ones. Hopefully they will come up with a better solution.
Given the number of Rados on road vs. Tundra, its expected that Chevs. will have more reported problems. I still maintain belief that Toyota quality for most part is superior to many makes. To hear a Toyota went 200,000 miles wouldn't be such a suprise. To hear a GM did, well thats more of an eye opener.
TWOWHEELER - Is that engine knockin yet or any warped rotors. I like your theory of GM keepin American money American lol.
BTW, Houston has the worst ozone air pollution at the moment. LA is second. But LA has come along way from the previous several decades. Still is above EPA standards for several pollutants such as particulate matter and NOx.
Hey glad to hear no probs. with truck. I'd hate for you to get stuck in the same Toyota dealership that Mods. been growing gray in lol. Cheers
The toy ABS clunk is present, 2 recalls and the oil is a PITA to change.
Emt, dang!!! Thought you almost saw the light!!
"Given the number of Rados on road vs. Tundra, its expected that Chevs. will have more reported problems. I still maintain belief that Toyota quality for most part is superior to many makes. To hear a Toyota went 200,000 miles wouldn't be such a suprise. To hear a GM did, well thats more of an eye opener."
They're all just cars and trucks. Whatever floats your boat is the best vehicle at the time.
It was rare for a truck to last to 200K without an overhaul - BACK IN 1960's. Today most trucks (if maintained) can go 200K and beyond. In my case the mechanical parts - engine, tranny will last longer than the interior. That is the main reason I traded my last truck - the seats were worn out, dash had a crack - even the steering wheel was worn out. Truck was 13 years old and had about 130K - still ran great.
You have had no problems with you Furd Stupidity. All Furds are Great!
By you reasoning, all Lexus owners should trade them in immediately on a Furd Stupidity. After all - the Furd Stupiditys must be more reliable and better quality.
Man! the Furd zealots are taking over, and it is getting deeeeeep!
There's still plenty of old timers who say that the engines now a days don't last as long as those of old. I find it to be just opposite when properly maintained. For Toyota having such a small portion of the truck market, their percentage of 200,000 + mile trucks exceeds GMs.
I agree that in present times, many of the interior contents seem to break before drivetrain. Yours had 130K but theres no proof that it would have ever lasted 200, very well could have since you say it was running good.
I think it's great that you have minimal problems with the fords you have(?) I've also got a '91 5.0 (original owner) thats been fairly trouble-free and the motor is pretty bullet proof unless you double the horsepower and redline it on every shift (doubling the horses are easy to do since there's a crapload of aftermarket pieces out there for the 5.0/4.6. Ford Racing even has a huffer for it that's 50 states legal that I'm seriously considering). What kind of ford vehicles do you have?
I have the Super Duty and 2 early Broncos (one is a basket case) My boy and I are building an '84 with a mild 351 and an AOD with a Stallion convertor. There's a list of other mods if you're interested. We are welding the in floor subs this weekend and it's a PITA not having a lift. I weld like crap laying on my back. LOL!!!
The Cobra was sold this week and the wife, boy and I actually shed a tear or two. It was that good/fun of a car.
As far as the anti-toy sentiment it's the old adage of what came first, the chicken or the egg?
I honestly believe the majority of toy owners run around on some superiority(inferiority?) complex and rip domestics in general. Some of 'em even go as far to call other toy owners liars if they report a problem with their toy. Others can't believe when a domestic owner has never had a problem with their vehicle.
Not that my way is the right way but I don't base any decision on magazines or internet BS. The SD with rebates won over the GM HD. The Cobra was an emotional/fun decision, The Broncos go in the fun category and like the stang there is unlimited aftermarket support for them. The '84 stang was an original 4 cylinder car and should be ez to insure for a 16 year old.
The Lexus was 100% emotional, wife fell in love type deal. The car's interior is gorgeous and except for the initial clunk it is VERY quiet. But I didn't get it cause it was a toy...If the wife liked the Infinity or small Jag or BMW better that's what she would have got.
"For Toyota having such a small portion of the truck market, their percentage of 200,000 + mile trucks exceeds GMs."
I don't agree. What do you base your statement on?
Tom
I have the Super Duty and 2 early Broncos (one is a basket case) My boy and I are building an '84 with a mild 351 and an AOD with a Stallion convertor. There's a list of other mods if you're interested. We are welding the in floor subs this weekend and it's a PITA not having a lift. I weld like crap laying on my back. LOL!!!
The Cobra was sold this week and the wife, boy and I actually shed a tear or two. It was that good/fun of a car.
As far as the anti-toy sentiment it's the old adage of what came first, the chicken or the egg?
I honestly believe the majority of toy owners run around on some superiority(inferiority?) complex and rip domestics in general. Some of 'em even go as far to call other toy owners liars if they report a problem with their toy. Others can't believe when a domestic owner has never had a problem with their vehicle.
Not that my way is the right way but I don't base any decision on magazines or internet BS. The SD with rebates won over the GM HD. The Cobra was an emotional/fun decision, The Broncos go in the fun category and like the stang there is unlimited aftermarket support for them. The '84 stang was an original 4 cylinder car and should be ez to insure for a 16 year old.
The Lexus was 100% emotional, wife fell in love type deal. The car's interior is gorgeous and except for the initial clunk it is VERY quiet. But I didn't get it cause it was a toy...If the wife liked the Infinity or small Jag or BMW better that's what she would have got.
What I'm trying to convey to blama is that there is no perfect automobile..not even the upscale division of toy which some seem to worship.
Poor blama, trying to convince everyone that toy is the only choice. The goof would try to tell you if you took 2 wheels off a corolla it would be the best motorcycle.
Bikes have been a part of my life over the last 25 years. But with so much to do and too little time now, the bikes (one rice rocket, one dual sport, one dirt only enduro) collect their share of dust. Oh to be a teenager again!
I like all types of vehicles be it cars, trucks, bikes, domestics, import, whatever. The Tundra did it for me since one of the deciding factors was that it actually fits nicely in my garage. I don't care if its a little smaller than the competition. It suits my needs just fine.
I find that this forum is simply just entertainment to me. It's fun to read what others have to say, then dishing it out with the best of them. Good luck on the Stang project.
Now the stats were somewhat generalized, something to effect of 100K+, 200K+, 300K+ and so on. Heres the variable ... these records were based on customers voluntarily reporting mileages which were later verified, and dealers who verified these mileages on routine service visits as well as trade-ins etc. . Toyota and Honda were usually on top followed by Nissan then the domestics scattered in. This was true for autos and trucks.
To be honest, the stats were good for promotions, but there were quite a few variables involved, so we took them with a chunk of salt. I have no idea how many dealers were even participating, or much else any of the other particulars. They compared units produced vs. mileages reported and came up with a %. The imports almost always showed a higher % in regards to longevity of engines. I don't think I kept any of that garbage or I'd post a page or two.
I'm not a number cruncher and have stated so time and time again. I prefer real life experiences. Like I said before, I know plenty of Toy owners with 200K+ trucks, I know not one GM owner. I know they exist. The raw number of 200K+ engines may indeed favor GM due to sheer units produced, yet in my post I say percentage, which based on my experiences has usually favored imports.
kip
This is my first GM ,as I said ,I've never been a GM fan and I'm not too likely to buy another.The engine knocks and I can't imagine that it'll go the 100k GM warrantied it for.
kip
kip
Come to Denver. I will show you more +200k mile original engine Chevrolets in fifteen minutes than toymotas you'll meet in a lifetime. They are Astro Vans used in commercial duty, many drivers. The fleet average is about 175,000 miles, many over 200k, and some are over 250k. They are equipped with the 4.3L V6, 2/3 the venerable 350 small block.
As far as showing me more 200K+ Chevs in 15 minutes than Toyotas I'd see in a lifetime ... well lol, Im yet to see a GM with over 200K, plenty of Toyotas though, so theres a bit of catch up to do. Although in the engine shop, we saw a considerable amount of Chevs. with mileages somewhere around low to mid 100s, so I'm sure its possible.
This is solely my opinion here, but it seems one can beat a Toyota up for most part, even with little maintenance, and owners have still come accustomed to usually getting 100K by virtue, and still some above 200K and so on. While I don't doubt Chevs and other GMs alike are capable, it seems in my experience that they require more attention to reach levels routinely attained by Toyota engines. This is why over the many years, the terms "Toyota Quality" and "Toyota Realiability" have come to be.
With exception to the latest sludge controversy, Toyota continues to make a sound product with marked reliability. I welcome any other thoughts regarding performance of domestic engines vs. imports within the realms of this topic.
P.S. - Long live # 7
Just oil changes, tune ups and brakes.
My uncle had a 1993 S10 Blazer with the 4.3L engine. He drove it all over the states, loaded and towing maybe around 80% max payload/tow. He bought the truck used, and year later sold it to me (needed more payload). I was there when the truck was sold to him. Year later I could not recognize the Blazer anymore, when I was selling it. Yes, it went to 193K miles, mostly highway. In a year that I had it, I had to
1. replace muffler, cat.
2. replace fuel injector unit.
3. distributor cap cracked.
4. starter.
5. ball joints upfront.
By the time I sold it there was audible knock in the engine, fuel stink from the exaust, and an undiagnosed problem with fuel injector unit leaking.
Not what I would call a tough truck. It was nice when it worked properly, but in the year that I owned it, I got maybe 2-3 month of actual trouble-free driving. It's left me stranded twice as well.
The first mistake is buying used and expecting new vehicle qualities no matter what make it is. You were the third owner, at minimum.
You were the third owner of a vehicle, boy thats a way to judge a brand of vehicles.
Anyone can go out and be the third owner of just about any car or truck, but to expect it to be like new is rediculous, the first two owners most likely let things go knowing they were going to sell it.
And you never saw a GM go 200,000 miles, you were close, and please dont try to tell everyone that a Toyota would never wear out a muffler or a cat, fuel injector unit, distributor cap, starter, ball joints or anything else on its way to 200,000 or more miles.
I know someone who's Camry had alot of annoying little problems, at @115,000 miles they sold it.
Does that mean all Toyotas will have alot of problems before making it to 115,000 miles?
Using your logic it must.
You were the third owner at best of a Chevy, you had problems, all Chevys must.
So I guess Toyotas cant go past 115,000 miles. Where are these Toyotas that go over 200,000 miles?
They might be out there but I havent seen one they cant exist.
What I'm saying is, in reference to trucks at least. Toyota having such a smaller % of trucks on road, seems to boast a better % of their trucks lasting longer than similar domestics. The sheer numbers should favor the domestics', as they make up a greater % of trucks on road. So no I'm not gonna have a heart attack lol, but I will when it gets to point of domestics outranking imports in reliability.