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Comments
You Lexus thing is a good idea except to date nothing in the lineup is impressive and I just heard the supra was going to be too expensive and they canned it for reasons similar to the first canning in the 90's. Not a lot of toyota R&D goes into FM type platforms or Sports cars. IT's all subject to change im sure.
"A RWD Acura and better branded RWD Lexus, if done properly, would trounce the Z on the Japan Inc playing field. I hope Nissan is watching, because Lexus knows"
Now you are comparing to cars that don't exist yet...by the time those come off the drawing board - nissan will have the GTR out and and M45. But if there's something out there that rocks the auto world like the G I'll be the first in line. I love a benchmark blaster - bring me more!
Present value of 300 a month for 48 months at 7% is about $12,500.
Correct. That's why some people I know instead of buying Lexus, Infiniti, BMW buy Hyundai. Present value of $25,000 for 10 years is what? You don't have to skip buying a 540 to save money, you can skip buying Infiniti also and save a bundle. At the end, buy that M5 for cash.
Come on chris - People who are really serious about saving money, don't even buy cars over $10/$11K, much less buying a BMW or Infiniti.
You can buy any car which suited you best, compare all the goodness and the bad and get the best value of it.
Some people prefer the best brand name in the market, some people like one of the best brand name and others just doesnt care about brand. Best brand name does not always come with more features, more luxury, better performance etc. Besides there is no absolute answer for which brand is actually the best.
Car is one of the worst investment and investment doesnt mix well with this thread
I just traded my 99 328i (E46) for a G35x. I absolutely loved the 328i, but the ABS pump went and I figured the $2500 repair price was a good excuse to go shopping. Before that, the car was rock-solid. Never a problem, really.
The G35x was just the best value for me out there. It's beautiful (IMHO, of course), has AWD, and a GREAT engine (with more power, but not as smooth-revving as my BMW), while also giving me more room than my BMW. Oh, and it was about $6k less than the comparable 3-series today (330ix), although I don't think the $6k is all prestige - there's definitely something special about a 3.
I test-drove the Acura TL and it's a pretty amazing bargain. Didn't care for the FWD feel or the dealers in my area or I'd probably be driving one today. Interior is AMAZING. Puts Infiniti and BMW to shame. During my test drives, for what it's worth, the engine didn't feel as good as the G35's, but a test drive isn't a great place to evaluate such things. Cars need about several thousand miles on them before the engines loosen up.
Anyway, the BMW (with sport and summer tires)felt lighter and more agile than my new G35x, but the G35x feels more powerful and rides better. Both are awesome cars.
One other note about all of the posted "tests" from magazines. I love reading about cars, but the comparos really are sometimes apples to oranges. For example, BMWs are always tested with the sport package and summer tires (usually Pilots). Most other cars are tested with all-season tires. Mention is rarely made of that difference. It certainly must account for some of the skidpad and steering response results. In BMW's defense, they have the guts to put top-flite performance tires on their cars so they should get credit...not like the crap Turanza EL42s that came on my G35x.
Anyhow, my overall point is that after having owned a BMW 3 for over five years and extensively test driving an Audi A4, Acura TL, and G35x, I can say that I honestly think I could have been incredibly happy with any of these four cars. If Caddy can get their build-quality up I'm sure they will be another player. For those who don't think there's something special about a 3-series BMW, you really need to own one for a while. I fell in love and might very well find myself back in a BMW down the line. The g35x is a different and amazing car, though, and for me, it's the best of what's out there today.
Heck, even if you're looking in the 25k range you have the Passat, Mazda6, Accord, Altima, and Camry!
Whatever you choose in whichever class, what a GREAT time to be car shopping!!!
No problem with the latter part of this, about the G35, but the 540i surely isn't in the G's class, it's several classes above it, and in the hands of a skilled driver the G35 doesn't have a prayer with a 540i.
It really doesn't say much for the G to be compared to the Porsche 928, especially since the car was designed in the seventies. There used to be a website called http://www.4car.co.uk/ and they had all kinds of comparos such as the one you've made here. Before their demise they had a test in which the Audi S6 (Euro model only), XJR (pre 04) and M5 were competing with a used to be untouchable Ferrari, the 512TR, which started out as the Testarossa in the 1980's, and guess what...the M5 beat the Ferrari in every measure. Point being that cars simply advance. I don't know what a 350Z would do other than get humiliated by a 911 GT3. I can mention a SL55 AMG in same breath as an Carrera GT in some areas, bit that doesn't mean the SL55 is comparable overall.
M
I recognize the 5 is a couple notches higher than the G - but I'm stating that performance alone transcends class which is not based on size and displacement, but on lux items and ride quality. Hey I want an M5 as much as anyone..see some of my past posts. The Edmunds home page today has the G-35 review from archives and it specifically mentions the target as the 540i - as well as the m5.
Whoever suggested infiniti has a long way - hello - FX35 and 45 which are porsche beaters fir 40k less, upcoming m45 - which exists in japan now, things we aren't fortuante enough drive here like the Skylines and GTR's ...There's enough here to keep me happy.
"G35 is not better performance car than 3 series "
Have you just joined us?
M
I joined this threat a while ago, maybe before you did. i know that you think G35 is better than 3 series, does not mean that it's true.
$35K sport sedans (all stick shift).
In rank order:
1- Infiniti G35
2- BMW 325i
3- Acura TL (the new one)
4- Lexus IS300
5- Audi A4 3.0 Quattro
6- Saab 9-3 Arc
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Not sure where you got the purported C&D rankings. The C&D comparisons I've read tested the 330i with the G35 and IS300. Are you citing a recent comparison test? Or looking at different tests? Thinking the last published complete C&D test of 325i manual was around January 2001.
And pg is correct also. However, CR did say the handling on the 330i was better. (Now why did I get that model?)
They will not review the 3 series until the next revamp. However, I suspect if the ZHP had been reviewed the TL, would still have won on the value component, but the ZHP would have mopped up the performance/handling aspect. (Now why would one buy a ZHP?)
In the Sports Sedan category the TL gets hurt by FWD. They eliminated the 330 from the test due to price.
The IS300 did well considering it had the lowest price and all the other cars were newer designs.
Ummm, last time I checked, the IS300 came out in 2001 and the E46 3-Series came out in 1999. How does that make a 325i a newer design than the IS300?
Best Regards,
Shipo
http://english.auto.vl.ru/catalog/toyota/altezza/1998_10/photo/
Your right about 1999 for the E46, the first ones were the 323 & 328 and then they changed engines in 2000? Much to the chagrin of the 99 owners.
This is quoted from infinity.com
G35 Wins 2004 Car and Driver 10Best Award 01/06/2004. The G35 is once again recognized as one of the year's 10Best Cars from Car and Driver, which looks for "Stunning styling, terrific technology, and excellent value..." in its winners. According to Car and Driver, "the G35 pushes all the right buttons to renew its 10Best membership."
They eliminated the 330 from the test due to price? They dont want TL cuz of fwd, and they put 325 in second place while its stats for 0-60 is above 7 secs? What were they comparing if not for speed, luxury, price, rwd?
Yes, no?
Best Regards,
Shipo
It's built on the FM platform, the same as the G35 and it's most certainly not an off-roading vehicle. It's closer to what BMW calls an SAV. Semantics...
and second it does not sell that well.
Nissan/Infiniti's consistently moving about 3k FX's a month. That's about the same as the G35 sedan.
M45 did not came out yet
funny, the M45s i've seen on the road seem to say otherwise. Nissan sells only a few hundred a month though. The new M isn't out yet but the same old one is still selling.
I'm a fan of BMW (heck I own one), but there's no reason to make up things about Infiniti.
Shipo, yeah the current BMW 3 has been kicking around for eons. The first ones to hit us shores were in 98. BMW sure takes its time with redesigns. Not that I'm upset as I love the look of my 3.
kd wrote: but the ZHP would have mopped up the performance/handling aspect. (Now why would one buy a ZHP?)
Not sure why any fool would buy a ZHP. Oh wait, maybe we love the 3 package but wanted something a bit more raw and as close to an M3 as we could get with 4 doors.
Best Regards,
Shipo
just a question?
Gotta have it factor
Fun to drive
Okay i will give them the fun to drive one as a valid point to have in a comparison but what the hell is the gotta have it? They ranked the audi below the infiniti which I am sorry i think it is much more prestigious to have an audi vs an infiniti. But these 2 categories bumped the tl down 2 spots.
I think my automatic 03 TLS will beat this car in most category.
Oh by the way, that is why I did not renew my subscription with them.
Too partial to Bimmers.
May for a reason that you and I miss?
Jaguar X-type 3.0
Prestige? It's a CAR. You might make a case for a Bentley, Lambo or a Rolls carrying some cache but that's about it. That's only because they're handcrafted, not stamped, assembly line chunks of metal.
It's this prestige/snobbery that makes me lie to people about what kind of car I own. I mention my Mazda when people ask about my car because I'm sick of the stupid comments people make about my Bimmer.
CR, R&T, C&D, etc. all hold the IS300 in high esteem! It is a great car. High value for the money. Maximum smiles per mile!
Exactly! Maybe I'll talk about how much I love my neighboors Accord coupe!
But I don't necessarily read them for their opinions, I read them for specs, tests, pics, etc.
kdshap and riez - not everyone need restrict themselves to what they own. I, for instance, am very happy and proud of my vehicle, but I am a staunch supporter of many others out there. I have had countless occasions where someone says "oh, you MUST be a Widget owner because you are singing its praises" and, in fact, I am not an owner of said vehicle. Here i have been singing the praises of the TL, but don't own one. Go figure.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
That's the end all and be all. I could care less if a magazine named a car to the top 10 or named its engine one Ward's 10 best or made it the Motor Trend Car of the Year. That has ZERO bearing on how I feel about the car.
When it comes to rating cars, like movies and food, nobody else can really tell you what's good until you test it yourself.
I guess I'll be avoiding Audi brand forver...
Isn't the a-4 a passat? Not much prestige there sharing platforms with the peoples car! And the 05 passat is on its own better platform....get's less prestigious from there.
Either you want a badge or a killer car with performance...or a combination. There's no way an a-4 is anywhere near as fun as a g35. I went from a passat to a g35 so I speak from experience even if by proxy...and went VW back then to save money and avoid the snooti factor...who wants people acting like I should buy them lunch all the time?
And just for fun I'll throw in that my 02 indigo blue passat got way more compliments than my g35 - so maybe the prestige thing really is not there for the G - THANK GOD
I have said this several times but let me repeat.
I remember when I was researching the Mazda Millenia back in 1998-all the Car Forums including Edmunds gave this car negative reviews.
I test drove the car and leased it for 36 trouble free months, the car was SOLID AS A ROCK.
No sqeaks or rattles just well built-lots of compliments from people.
I do read and check out car forums but in the end I am Master and Commander of what I buy.
I agree. In my neck of the woods it's more S500s than Civics.
I'll pass on that opinion. Where there is advertising, there are sycophants. Also, too much political correctness, not enough candor.
There are some guys in these forums who know what they are talking about. There's nothing like figuring out who they are and communicating with them (like everyone in this particular thread ;-). This, on top of separating the wheat from the chaff in auto reviews, then coming to one's own conclusion based on research and test drives is where it's at IMO.
BTW, I know the following isn’t exactly a cogent example but ever read the reviews in Gannett papers? They're virtually useless.
"I got news for you, comparos are 'subjective, all you are getting is some car writer's opinion about what car he likes."
Now you're talkin'!