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Majority opinion...golly I need to change my opinion to go along with everyone else. For the last time, unless they're buying the car for me why the hell should I care what their opinion is? I have to live with it and in my experience the IS300 has numb steering.
40? My car has 235 HP...regardless.
It's the same car, same tranny, same poor BMW reliability.
Actually I have a short-shift 6 speed. Again not the same. Oh and different suspension and different wheels and different differential. Different chip programming. Lets toss in wholly different exhaust system and headers/cams. Oh and my speed is limited to 155 (which I hope one day to try out on a track) rather than 123 (I believe that's the ceiling for the 3 series normally) and my redline is 6800 which is higher than a 325i.
In addition to the performance upgrades from the 325i to the 330i ZHP, I also got a few luxury features I've grown to love...memory seats, tilt mirror. Useless fluff to some but the difference between me happily leaving my car for a wash and being annoyed I have to adjust everything back.
And unless you are a stoplight racer for a living the 0-60mph difference is inconcequential.
I don't know where you live but in So Cal we have annoying freeway lights. 100-200 feet to go from zero to 75.
Am I a stop light racer? No. Do i consistently shift my in the upper region where the engine sings. Redline shifts are common for me on every drive. I bought a performance sedan and I make it perform. I often cruise in 3rd of 4th at around 80 mph so that when the need arises I can punch it and take off. This cannot be done with a 325i. Ask my bro-in-law as he and his 325i simply cannot keep up with my bone stock car.
The 325i has enough power to move that car very well. I personally, think they are both a ripoff, and that's why I went with an A4...but the 330 is by far the biggest insult to one's intelligence.
To each his own. The A4 doesn't offer the handling (especially a FWD one) or power I want when spending over 30k for a car. There's no reason I should EVER have to worry about merging or will I have enough power to shoot a gap if I'm in a near luxury sport sedan. With the A4 (I had a 1.8T) the engine pulls pretty well but not with the ferocious authority I'd expect paying over 30k. Go Quattro and an already slow car is now saddled by an inefficient drivetrain that saps power like crazy. Add the tiptronic and the car's dead in the water.
We all have priorities. Mine were performance, luxury and fun for a price I found reasonable. As the 325i only offered good handling it didn't meet my performance to price ratio. I'd gladly blow 40k again on my sedan as it's a grin producer. The 325i wasn't that big of a step up from my old Jetta. I couldn't rationalize spending 30-32k for a 325i that would leave me constantly annoyed at the lack of punch.
Exactly. We don't need the 200 HP engines and tight suspensions. We want them. Our cars regardless of marketing hype are totally luxury items.
So far you've said nothing to justify the $7,100 difference between the 325i and 330. The difference is 40 horses.
Which means that my response was accurate, if you add back in as much as possible to bring the 325i up to the level of the 330i, you need to add:
Sport Package: $1,400
Harman-Kardon Audio System: $675
On-Board Comuter: $300
Front Dual Power Seats: $995
Total: $2,470
That makes the price difference (still not quite apples to apples) only $4,630. That still leaves you with a car with smaller brakes, smaller engine, and a 5-Speed transmission instead of the 6-Speed on the 330i.
Is $4,630 too much for all of that? For me, it's worth it, for someone else it's not. Is it a rip-off? I don't think so.
Regarding the reliability, like virtually every manufacturer in the world, the reliability has improved dramatically in recent years, and statistically speaking, the E39 and E46 cars have improved to such an extent that they are among the best. How will the E60 fare when the bugs are worked out? Unknown.
Best Regards,
Shipo
There can be differences in two cars. Often one test drive isn't enough. Some specific single cars are lemons. Others just aren't up to the rest. Deviations from the mean.
No it didn't. That's a typical misrepresentation of the facts. BMW owners do it too. Get a 330i and then add the sport package and 18 inch rims and wheels. At this point you're now talking about a 2k difference for an engine that's modified, modded tranny, different suspension, different interior/exterior treatment. Heck Acura and G35 owners pay 2k just to get cosmetic changes to their cars!
Mine is a 1.8T Frontrack and CVT. The car pulls with tremendous authority and the CVT is a awesome tranny. Previous to my A4, I had a 2K Nissan Maxima (I like a car with power) and I am very impressed with the power of and fuel economy of the 1.8T engine. BTW...I live in S. Florida.
I'm glad you like it. I couldn't live with a CVT or the 1.8T engine again. They're gorgeous cars with excellent interiors and the 1.8T pulls nicely. But I love the neck-snapping ability mixed with the docile nature I can get. With a shift to 3rd I can go from 60 to 95 in a blink and transform my comfy little cruiser into a brutish thug. That's part of why I love my Jekyll and Hyde car.
If only BMW let us get that 3.2 in our 330i's...sigh...M3 sedan, yummy.
When it comes to what I prefer with my money I don't even understand how you'd have the temerity to toss up journalists as to proof a vehicle should feel a certain way to me. I never said the rest of the world should bow down to the BMW or Acura or any car. I expressed my opinion on what was worth my money.
Why would I or anyone else take into consideration what dozens of others might have indicated in their published reports when you have spoken?
I honestly don't know why anyone believes a word written in car mags. Or reviews of anything. I judge for myself and make my decision from there. Experience for yourself and build your opinions from that. Repeating quotes from car mags is nothing more than parroting the opinions of someone else. You can tell me X car is horrible but I must experience it for myself.
Good example, I'm a huge movie buff. I've had netflix for near 4 years. I see movies constantly (watch zero TV) and because of my love for film I'll give just about everything a shot - b movies, iranian film, japanese, so-called bombs, etc. With some friends one night we saw an ad for Swept Away on pay-per-view. The common consensus among critics it was horrible. Someone snorted, "who would see that?!" I said I had on DVD and it was quite bad. Another friend added, "Leave it to you to confirm that the universally hated film was bad." It wasn't good enough that others liked it or disliked it, I had to experience it firsthand.
There can be differences in two cars. Often one test drive isn't enough. Some specific single cars are lemons. Others just aren't up to the rest. Deviations from the mean.
That's why I've driven two of them. You can keep trying but in my experience with the IS300, the car felt numb and disconnected. The engine didn't offer the power I prefer. Like it or not, these are my opinions and I will not deviate from tham.
This is opinion based on actual comparative ownership. Not just a short test drive or two. (I also loved the steering in my former Infiniti G20t and my former Lincoln LS8 Sport.)
I find your following comment fascinating:
"I honestly don't know why anyone believes a word written in car mags. Or reviews of anything."
Aren't you writing? And essentially providing a review of something? Guess we shouldn't believe a word? I'm a strong proponent of the value of good automotive journalism and subscribe to nearly two dozen automotive publications.
But rather than expand this disagreement into more of the same with a slightly different background, let's just move on.
Thanks.
2. The sheet metal will not change but the front and rear bumpers will be totally redone and incorporate the aero kits, or something very similar to them, on both the coupe and sedan models. For those of you with 03 model sedans that have been wanting to buy an aero kit Infiniti has just reduced the price 23%. They are closing them out because next year they will be standard.
3. Don't look for a horsepower increase because there won't be one BUT you can certainly look for a price increase.
M
Perhaps they did us a service those infiniti guys and instead of spending more money on the G concept and making it pricier, they figured out that what matters is not the interior its perfect balance and a rigid RWD platform. Get that right first and then improve the fluff stuff.
Jan 2004 5036 units ES330 5254 units
feb 2004 6274 units ES330 .... units
Acura TL sales up by 1238 units compared to jan sales and over lexus in jan:)
G35 sedan sales for
Jan 2004 3382 units
feb 2004 3439 units only up 57 units
Feb2004 for G35 coupe is 2145 units.
TL sedan sales is more than G35 sedan and coupe combines lol, good REPUTATION heh?
Lucky Acura didnt learn from people who know so much about sports. 47% up in jan, 57% in feb,...
G35 sedan sales up 42% from Feb 2003 sales of 2,410. That comparison is more meaningful.
I'm sure the TL did much better this month when compared to its sales in Feb 2003, but you also have to consider it is an outgoing model vs. a brand new model comparision.
After two years in the market, with all of the complaints about the lack of a manual in its first year, plus ongoing criticisms of the interior (some valid, some not), whether or not the styling will remain "fresh", the G continues to sell.
But if I'm a TL owner, I wouldn't necessarily be happy with this, since this means that there are TL's all over the place.
It seems the Maxima increased in sales by a bit (5200). For many Nissan buyers, the Maxima is a viable alternative to the G35 if one is willing to sacrifices some sport for room and FWD (for snow), and is not willing to pay extra for AWD. A fully loaded Maxima and a G35 offer similar features for almost the same price.
BMW sold 2492 325i and 467 330i. This isn't surprising since the 3 is near the end of its model run. Sales will pick up when the next 3 is introduced, but BMW will have to do an excellent job. The TL has been a big success, the G35 will only get better with the redone interior, and Lexus seems serious about the next IS. 3-series domination is no longer a gimme in this segment, as it once used to be.
merc1,
He didn't say when the 05 G35 would be released. But since the 04 G35 and G35 Coupe were released in August 2003, I would guess that the 05 would be released around the same time in 2004.
The only thing that can stop people from buying car are limited edition car, expensiveness or less quality.
Comparing maxima to TL, that is the only thing that you got? Maxima is a failure in nissan LOL no offense but is the truth. gtg.
All subjectivity about looks aside - whats wrong with it other than oversteer problems. Its fast, big and while not as nimble - its a FWD sporty sedan just like the acura...
The fact that they compare the acura to the G actually says quite a bit for the TL I will concede. I wouldn't go too far with it tho as the platforms are very different even if the TL drivers cant tell...
"I Stirred it up good this time ma"
valuable discussions regarding sales within a model line would probably be either year-to-year monthly comparisons, or cumulative comparisons - for example fall/winter 2003-03 to fall/winter 2003-04 or total yearly sales.
Lucky Acura didnt learn from people who know so much about sports. 47% up in jan, 57% in feb,...
That's an interesting thing. You're basically saying the Infiniti which hasn't enjoyed good sales over the past 10 years isn't doing well by moving 50-60k units of the G. Most struggling manufacturers would love to offload 30-40k cars in those kind of numbers.
I'd say both cars are a hit. Fair enough?
I'm just itching for an AWD TL 6 speed by May 2006. I couldn't stomach a wrong wheel drive car, so maybe Acura will meet enthusiasts half way with AWD and give us a reason to defect. Ideally let us split the power with a CPU ala the WRX STi...85% rear, 15% front...oh yummy.
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000214337.cfm
I don't think that the interior layout/styling wchange will be too dramatic though, because the G35 has to remain on the Nissan family tree...that polarizing, funky, French tree.
How do you like your TSX? Sometimes I wish I'd bought it over my ZHP.
I dunno bout you but experts in C&D, motorweek, CR did compare TL with 330i,325i and G35. Chris maybe you are more of an expert, sort of. Who's right then? Whereis maxy?
In fact in edmund 2002-2003 comparison G35 couldnt outsell the previous 3.2 TL, and considered a tie(if not second) after BMW. How can a G35 win over the new TL, how absurd.
G35 is not as fast as TL
G35 is not as well equipped like TL
G35 is cheaper than TL
G35 is not as luxy as TL
G35 does sell less than TL
G35 is not as high tech as TL
What else is wrong with this car, to me is a lot and so to other 6 thousand people who chosed TL, lol. Thats is why only 3 thousands people choose G35, isnt that sad for a so called "better"/"sportier" car than TL and its cheaper too, lol. Why dont they buy?
Blueguy, cheerioboy I respect your opinions.
I like stirring the pot lol, tee hee ..
Disagree. The C&D comparo found the TL to be faster 0 to 60, but the average of the entire sample of tests seems to say that the two cars are a dead heat 0 to 60, and the G35 is slightly faster in the 1/4 mile.
"G35 is not as well equipped like TL"
Depends. The G has some features that the TL lacks, and vice versa. Personally, I prefer the exclusive features of the G, since Bluetooth, DVD-audio, and voice operation (Navi isn't worth it) is useless to me.
"G35 is cheaper than TL"
The base G is cheaper than the TL. But very, very few people get the base G. Similarly configured, the G35 costs a bit more. But I would think that this is a plus for the TL, not a minus.
"G35 is not as luxy as TL"
If by "luxy" you mean better interior, then yes.
"G35 does sell less than TL"
No doubt about it.
"G35 is not as high tech as TL"
Yes, the TL has more "high tech" features.
Again, I really like the TL and would personally get it over the G35 (depending on how good the 2005 G35 interior changes are.) I just don't think that either is "better" than the other in any quantitative sense of the word.
jrock65,
I hope August is correct. Sure would be nice.
M
Both of these cars are great, naturally you have to open with that line.
The TL looks better (imo), has a better interior, is a hair faster, is fwd (+/- depending) and has more features.
The G35 handles better, stops better, and is rwd (+/- depending).
I think it's really pointless to argue reliability here. Neither will match that "other" Japanese luxury brand, per the surveys. They are both competing for 2nd place here.
Price is pretty much a non-issue too, at least around here.
I think it comes down to whether you want more luxury/features or more performance (straight-line speed isn't everything) and rwd handling characteristics.
Neither one of these cars clobbers the other overall.
M
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/bmw_conceptm5.asp
500 hp.
I think it'll be a tad faster than the TL or G35.
Who cares? It's still ugly!
Styling aside (which I'm starting to like), this new M5 is going to inhale the cars in its segment in dynamics and performance.
M
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Beyond not liking the tranny or the stigma of owning a BMW the car's a blast. It's way too much fun. Yet there was something smooth, purposeful and subdued about the TSX that I really liked. As I've said before if the TL has AWD in 2006, it will likely get my business. It's been almost a year since I got the BMW and I'm still not comfortable with the attention it gets. I'm fairly certain now that I flat out could never be comfortable with something like a Porsche or Ferrari.
Who cares? [The M5 is] still ugly!
Screw the appearance of the car. It's beautiful for what it can do, not what it looks like. I couldn't care less about the sheetmetal. That thing will flat out obliterate any other sport sedan made. Seating for 4, a decent sized trunk and enough power to plaster a grin on your face.
I agree. It's just going to take me awhile to get over the Bangle affect.
Actually, I'm really an Acura/Honda man more than Lexus, I enjoy the more sporty aspect and connected feel, but I love the Lexus quality and tight workmanship like the old SC400. I still think the G35 coupe is darn sexy and love that angry snarl when you hit it. My old 94' Prelude Vtec was a blast to drive and also had that snarl when the Vtec kicked in around 4500 rpm. I think Acura finally is coming back to life after being neglected by the parent company for so long. The new NSX looks real promising(about time) and the new RL should really ignite the segment but then there's the new M35/45 which are basically a scaled up and more plush G35.
That is surprising. Since here in S. Florida a BMW 3 is as abundant as a Toyota Camry. Baby Beemers barely raise an eyebrow, now drive in with a Ferrari and you have everybody's attention.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
My friends used to call my gray Stanza the undercover car as it could move about unnoticed. The Jetta too felt that way. In my Protege I'm as anonymous as a speck of sand on the beach. In fact this morning I passed a friend of over 12 years on the freeway and waved and got nothing. I called her cell seconds laster and she said she didn't see my car anywhere. Which car? The BMW.
The only attention I used to get in a 328 in south florida was the bird - I go for 6 months without even getting honked at but in sunny FLA the guys sitting on back of work trucks with nothing to do on thier way to job site flick cigarettes on the car or simply scream and flip you off - this happened weekly. My choice for infiniti has paid off - no one seems to really notice it lately...the coupe sticks out tho - like Yasser Araafat at a Briss..