Did you recently rush to buy a new vehicle before tariff-related price hikes? A reporter is looking to speak with shoppers who felt pressure to act quickly due to expected cost increases; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com for more details by 4/24.
That their bank account is overflowing with record sales of the TL.
I guess you meant to say what Infiniti found out. "
ES is the other top seller in the segment. Obviously, most buyers in the segment aren't looking for performance. Or else they'd be looking at G or 3, exclusively.
The good news is that the issues that I've had with my last two cars are really nothing more than nits so to speak, no show stoppers. ;-)
Issues with the 2002 530i:
1) It too has the steering wheel blocking the top of the speedo issue. 2) Adaptive throttle by wire software takes a bit getting used to, I prefer a simple linear throttle. 3) Tire noise as the OEM Pilot-Primacys wear. 4) The space taken up with the silly sliding arm rest could have easily been used for a small storage console. 5) For about 500 miles or so I was bumping against that arbitrary 128 mph speed governor while on the AutoBahn. The car clearly has more legs than that. 6) Cup holders that are so ridiculous that I actually forgot my car even had any (real low priority issue for me anyway). 7) Brake dust.
Issues with the 1999 328i:
1) DING! When ever the OAT hit 37 degrees the display would change and DING at me, forcing me to acknowledge the information by pushing a button or else my chosen display would be stuck on the OAT. 2) No two zone HVAC. The 1998 E36 328i had it, my 530i has it, and even our two Dodge Caravans have it. I like it cool, my wife likes it hot and the 328i was difficult to deal with when we were both in the car. 3) The 128 mph governor, not that I ever felt its influence on this car, at least legally anyway. ;-) 4) Brake dust.
2) 80mph=3500RPM ( not that loud, but gas? ) 80 mph in 6th gear - we're talking over 30 mpg and around 3k with almost 4k more to go.
3) Air cond not enough for five people in new mexico on hot day day. Takes time to cool car even in chicago.
Open the windows and doors remotely. By the time I get to the car it's air temp. Within 2-3 minutes it's an ice box.
4) Paint seems to chip/scratch easier than on my old saturn ( and, i mean, come on )
Your saturn was plastic wasn't it? Isn't that injection molded? Anyway, 1 year, 15k miles not a scratch on the whole car.
5) Cupholder specifically designed to hold no cup in the universe.
Will take just about any cup known to man - though nobody better sip anything in my car or they'll die.
Guess BMW did improve things.
Things that aren't good with my 330i: 1. The parking brake broke. 2. Horrible rearward vision. 3. Clumsy HVAC that require me to spin a dorky dial - it's not an auto system and BMW calling it that is a lie. 4. Lousy Harmon Kardon stereo with no MP3 ability and one disc. 5. Lack of torque until the revs are super high. 6. Not nearly enough power. 7. Handling isn't sharp enough. 8. Double-pull to unlock doors. 9. Small side mirrors.
not many I guess, IDK. Not really interested in that. :-)
So far I think G35 handling+performance is better than 330i but not overall. But I certainly chose G35 coupe over 330 if I really need perfect handling+performance(both)
1. Brembos squeal occasionally but it's much, much better now. 2. Brake dust is excessive (especially the front wheels). 3. OEM summer tires could be better. 4. Wish trunk was bigger, at least the same size as my '00 TL. 5. I solved my squeaks and rattle issues but once in a long while, one will mysteriously occur and then just as mysteriously disappear (very random and difficult to locate). 6. Torque steer - It's mild (not excessive as some people believe) but it's there. 7. I have to be careful with my keys in hand and seat belt buckle because the interior aluminum trim does dent easily. 8. On cold morning starts, the engine may idle rough for a couple of minutes. 9. Rear window visibility could be better. 10. Glove box and center console storage compartment could be bigger, and I really miss the center overhead sunglasses compartment like the one in my '00 TL.
Contrary to what most of you believe, I don't think the TL is perfect or the best car in this class. I simply stated that the TL represents the best value, overall.
As Pat said, these recent posts addressing issues about our own cars is very constructive...and somewhat therapeutic (thanks for suggesting it, dhanley), so let's agree to keep the bashing to a minimum and address the more important issues with a sense of decorum.
2002TL Type S. 1. Changed Trany after about 15K. 2. Bad paint job on the bumpers. 3.The worst problem is brakes, changed brakes and rotors 4 times( no charge), dealer warned me that they wont do it again for free. Still have the same problem, can't go as fast as I want, but my wife is happy and saved some money on speeding tickets.
Overall I like the car and will consider new TL(6MT and Brembo brakes only).
Cool. I really think it'll help us all speak more constructively once we all realize we're just discussing products with strong and weak points, and that preference will depend on the driver's personal values.
I can't let you pass my list length, so:
(328i)
6) Glove box too small. 7) Seat heaters only cover narrow portion of the seat & seatback. 8) Sterio only so-so. 9) $39K car didn't come with CD player, or aux input 10) Could use a little more isolation on wretched chicago streets.
Blueguy: Actually, i periodically get over 35mpg on trips. But i think i could do better. ; )
Blueguy: Actually, i periodically get over 35mpg on trips. But i think i could do better. ; )
I've snagged 31 on a freeway jaunt over 100 miles. That said, more realistically because I'm only in the car on the weekends I'm getting more like 21 mpg now. If I drove it more often I'm sure I wouldn't be playing with the throttle over 5k on all my shifts.
- Drop the el cheapo hood prop rod! - Needs to use space-saving multi-link trunk hinges to maximize trunk space. - Needs deeper (numerically lower) overdrive top gear. The 0.85:1 5th is too high. 0.75 would boost highway fuel economy. Or needs 6-speed with this deeper overdrive. - Should have at least optional spilt-fold rear seat. - Steering wheel should have radio controls (only has cruise control). - Manual transmission cars should be available with stability control system. - TRD should offer supercharger accessory. - SportCross (touring) should have available manual transmission.
I am still sitting on the fence but 325I is winning. I can get a 325i prepaid 36 month for 23,000 VS 29,500 TL....the BMW list approx 43,500. These nbrs represent all taxes included and nothing down. 325i It does not have all the options TL has but then again I do not want all the options TL offers and charges for.
I'm bored, lets go back to fighting and subliminal slams. At this rate we will soon have people quoting car reviews where Martha Stewart is raving about interior colors and the matching thingies on the dash. :-)
It really comes down to what your needs are. Aside from the personal design preferences, if 184hp RWD and a few options is all you need, the 325i is a fine choice. But to my way of thinking, I got everything I needed including a bigger car, 270hp, 6-speed, Brembos, and all the other features you're familiar with, for a lower list price (CDN$41,800). If you go prepaid, what's the buyout after 36 months?
A few months back, my comparo shopping started with the BMW 330i Sedan. With the all the options I wanted, it didn't take long for the price to reach and exceed CDN$50,000. Then the TL came along and for about CDN$10,000 less, my needs were greatly satisfied.
I know you're on the fence but have you considered adding the Infiniti G35 into the mix?
I like the M45's exterior, except the tail-lights seem to dominate the rear a bit too much. The rest of the car I'd describe as smooth and sleek. I prefer it to the 2006 GS's bulbous styling, although the GS isn't a bad looking car either.
The interior is definitely better than what Infiniti has been offering so far, although we'd have to wait to see the production model in person to judge the quality of materials.
No need to tame the exterior design for the assembly line because it's quite impressive as is. Interior has a nice, fresh look to it but still don't care for the location of the seat controls.
1. OEM tires flatspotting during last winter but it seems okay now (warmer weather). 2. Seat memory lost a couple times(or I thought it was) but not anymore. 3. paint coat on the muffler area chipping 4. No auto lock feature (I'm used to it I guess) 5. Need bigger front hip room 6. The car is too wide, although it fits into my garage but getting in and out is a problem. 7. Nose is too low. 8. Avg city mpg is only 23-24 9. Xenon lights is too bright making the dark area more darker. 10. Suspension is not soft enough compared to my accord.
How the blazes do you drive that car? My friends with G35s get low 20s to high teens! That's with mostly freeway driving too.
10. Suspension is not soft enough compared to my accord.
??? You bought sport coupe that's a stretched version of the 350z, what did you expect?
BTW, I wasn't real fond of the ultra-low ride in the 35 coupe. But man oh man was it sexy. they desperately need a convertible version of that bad boy.
Blueguy, I never go to a gas station twice a week, but now I do. The reason I mentioned that bcuz these days gas prices has gone to the roof. And this car need 91+ octane only ($2.09/gallon). My accord's city mpg is 28, no matter how hard you drive, its still the same 28. I drove to colorado twice, it reached 33.4 mile/gallon of regular unleaded not premium!. (my def. of city mpg= 50-50 highway & locals)
I am not fond of the car's suspension, that's all. I like comfort, remember.
I never liked M45 butt, but I do like G35 coupe and M45's interior upgrade.
I figured you must have snatched up a G35 coupe. My bad. Then the mileage makes sense. Honda's engines are from what I've seen and experienced far more efficient than Nissan and Toyota's engines (for luxury lines).
Oh and 2.09 for premium is cheap! I'm paying that for regular. Premium is around $2.30 a gallon here. and my 4 banger Protege gets about 28 mpg if I drive it fast and hard, 30+ if I only do 75-80 on the freeway.
*No compass *Stock all-season tires *Touchy throttle tip-in *Thin paint chips too easily *Stering wheel audio controls allow for volume adjust and track select, but not disc select. *I don't get to drive it often enough
1) Whoever designed the cupholder over the stereo is an complete moron. 2) Sun visors are so small, they are useless. 3)Center console is over the parking brake, so to apply parking brake you need to move the center console. Not very smart. 4) HVAC unit could be a lot more easier to use. 5) When you run out of windshield wiper fluid you get this annoying beep every 10 seconds...and the symbol for "no windshield wiper fluid" takes over the HUD. Audi, engineers!, windshield wiper fluid is not THAT important.
Weird how VW carried over the same design flaws from the Golf platform to the A4's. The parking brake, sun visor and cup holder are common areas of complaint for Golf/Jetta owners too.
BTW, the first time my old Jetta ran low on gas the car let out this horrific shriek. I was certain the whole car would self destruct in seconds. A simple light would have been good enough, not a defcon 4 warning.
I believe I can mention other "mags" if I don't provide links? Motor Trend's latest issue has a wonderful 4 way sport sedan comparo: TL vs 9-3 vs CTS vs G35.
it helps to live out in now wheres vile.... lets see when I filled up today for premium it was 1.69 a gallon.... and regular was 1.45 I think.... or close to it...
but when I go acrost states driving.... thats a different story I hate to pay those gas prices...
Oh forgot one more A4 gripe. If they are gonna make the passanger seat manual at least make it easy to use. The archaic knob and crank system VW/Audi uses is enough to drive you insane if you are the passenger.
6 CD changer standard vs 1 Disc 2 drink holder in center storage box. Deeper storage pockets in front doors. Firmer damping springs to limit bump stop bashes with hard driving on bumpy roads.
Could you pass on your gripes about your G35 coupe? I have heard soooo many positives (except for the interior), I would like an honest opinion from someone who has owned the car for a little while. Thanks!
03 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan: -needs more power -HVAC controls are too flimsy and confusing ('05 interior upgrade seems to have addressed this issue). -I tend to like it, but a couple of my friends who have driven the car find the shifter (shift gates) to be too vague. -low profile wheel/tire package is so low that the it is VERY easy to get a little curb rash on the alloys. Even the treadles at the local car wash can mark up the alloys!! -trunk is too small (I have to pull my driver out and place it on top of my golf bag). -any $30K+ vehicle should have a standard CD player. I had to get the 6 disc changer in the glove box. -after having to have my windshield replaced, the rain sensing wipers have a mind of their own.
6 CD changer standard vs 1 Disc 2 drink holder in center storage box. Deeper storage pockets in front doors. Firmer damping springs to limit bump stop bashes with hard driving on bumpy roads.
1. You can't select or hold 1st gear with the e-shift automatic gear box. If you launch from a stop with something less than 2/3rd throttle it will short shift to 2nd to save fuel.
2. The front dash side vents have chrome stripes on the louver directional levers that reflect in the door glass about eye level with the side mirrors. The solution is to black them out with a marker pen.
3. You can't deactivate the skid control. I found VSC to be a little intrusive during a trip to the local race track on a wet day
4. The traction control is way to sensitive. Fortunately you can turn it off so you can take full advantage of the Limited slip.
5. Shock valving. on the e-shift car is a little too soft when you approach the handling limits of the car.
6. The paint chips far too easily. A clear bra is your friend in this case.
7. I have the SportCross version and it doesn't have an internal rear hatch release button or lever. The hatch is manually open from the outside when all the doors are unlocked.
Not as dramatic as the prototype sketches or even the TL but very nice styling for the targeted demographic. Although you really can't tell from the photos, it looks smaller than I expected. It'll be interesting to see how the new SH-AWD system shakes out in upcoming road tests.
With all the hype of A6/M/RL/GS/STS, I think it's safe to say none is a homer. The Italian design boutiques don't have to feel threatened! I'll pick 5 over any of these, at least it's interesting!
Comments
That their bank account is overflowing with record sales of the TL.
I guess you meant to say what Infiniti found out. "
ES is the other top seller in the segment. Obviously, most buyers in the segment aren't looking for performance. Or else they'd be looking at G or 3, exclusively.
Issues with the 2002 530i:
1) It too has the steering wheel blocking the top of the speedo issue.
2) Adaptive throttle by wire software takes a bit getting used to, I prefer a simple linear throttle.
3) Tire noise as the OEM Pilot-Primacys wear.
4) The space taken up with the silly sliding arm rest could have easily been used for a small storage console.
5) For about 500 miles or so I was bumping against that arbitrary 128 mph speed governor while on the AutoBahn. The car clearly has more legs than that.
6) Cup holders that are so ridiculous that I actually forgot my car even had any (real low priority issue for me anyway).
7) Brake dust.
Issues with the 1999 328i:
1) DING! When ever the OAT hit 37 degrees the display would change and DING at me, forcing me to acknowledge the information by pushing a button or else my chosen display would be stuck on the OAT.
2) No two zone HVAC. The 1998 E36 328i had it, my 530i has it, and even our two Dodge Caravans have it. I like it cool, my wife likes it hot and the 328i was difficult to deal with when we were both in the car.
3) The 128 mph governor, not that I ever felt its influence on this car, at least legally anyway. ;-)
4) Brake dust.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I dont think TL is more luxurious than ES.
2) 80mph=3500RPM ( not that loud, but gas? )
80 mph in 6th gear - we're talking over 30 mpg and around 3k with almost 4k more to go.
3) Air cond not enough for five people in new mexico on hot day day. Takes time to cool car even in chicago.
Open the windows and doors remotely. By the time I get to the car it's air temp. Within 2-3 minutes it's an ice box.
4) Paint seems to chip/scratch easier than on my old saturn ( and, i mean, come on )
Your saturn was plastic wasn't it? Isn't that injection molded? Anyway, 1 year, 15k miles not a scratch on the whole car.
5) Cupholder specifically designed to hold no cup in the universe.
Will take just about any cup known to man - though nobody better sip anything in my car or they'll die.
Guess BMW did improve things.
Things that aren't good with my 330i:
1. The parking brake broke.
2. Horrible rearward vision.
3. Clumsy HVAC that require me to spin a dorky dial - it's not an auto system and BMW calling it that is a lie.
4. Lousy Harmon Kardon stereo with no MP3 ability and one disc.
5. Lack of torque until the revs are super high.
6. Not nearly enough power.
7. Handling isn't sharp enough.
8. Double-pull to unlock doors.
9. Small side mirrors.
So far I think G35 handling+performance is better than 330i but not overall. But I certainly chose G35 coupe over 330 if I really need perfect handling+performance(both)
Ummm, is that sort of like saying, "It's a definite maybe?" ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Each car has it's own best and I'm not saying TL has them all. TL is not Wallgreen.
The saturn was plastic, but it was painted too.
dave
On a scale of of 1 to 10:
Styling: 3
Acceleration: 9
Luxury: 6
Comfort(based on just ergonomics/driving position): 8
Prestige: 1
1. Brembos squeal occasionally but it's much, much better now.
2. Brake dust is excessive (especially the front wheels).
3. OEM summer tires could be better.
4. Wish trunk was bigger, at least the same size as my '00 TL.
5. I solved my squeaks and rattle issues but once in a long while, one will mysteriously occur and then just as mysteriously disappear (very random and difficult to locate).
6. Torque steer - It's mild (not excessive as some people believe) but it's there.
7. I have to be careful with my keys in hand and seat belt buckle because the interior aluminum trim does dent easily.
8. On cold morning starts, the engine may idle rough for a couple of minutes.
9. Rear window visibility could be better.
10. Glove box and center console storage compartment could be bigger, and I really miss the center overhead sunglasses compartment like the one in my '00 TL.
Contrary to what most of you believe, I don't think the TL is perfect or the best car in this class. I simply stated that the TL represents the best value, overall.
As Pat said, these recent posts addressing issues about our own cars is very constructive...and somewhat therapeutic (thanks for suggesting it, dhanley), so let's agree to keep the bashing to a minimum and address the more important issues with a sense of decorum.
2002TL Type S.
1. Changed Trany after about 15K.
2. Bad paint job on the bumpers.
3.The worst problem is brakes, changed brakes and rotors 4 times( no charge), dealer warned me that they wont do it again for free. Still have the same problem, can't go as fast as I want, but my wife is happy and saved some money on speeding tickets.
Overall I like the car and will consider new TL(6MT and Brembo brakes only).
I can't let you pass my list length, so:
(328i)
6) Glove box too small.
7) Seat heaters only cover narrow portion of the seat & seatback.
8) Sterio only so-so.
9) $39K car didn't come with CD player, or aux input
10) Could use a little more isolation on wretched chicago streets.
Blueguy: Actually, i periodically get over 35mpg on trips. But i think i could do better. ; )
I've snagged 31 on a freeway jaunt over 100 miles. That said, more realistically because I'm only in the car on the weekends I'm getting more like 21 mpg now. If I drove it more often I'm sure I wouldn't be playing with the throttle over 5k on all my shifts.
- Needs to use space-saving multi-link trunk hinges to maximize trunk space.
- Needs deeper (numerically lower) overdrive top gear. The 0.85:1 5th is too high. 0.75 would boost highway fuel economy. Or needs 6-speed with this deeper overdrive.
- Should have at least optional spilt-fold rear seat.
- Steering wheel should have radio controls (only has cruise control).
- Manual transmission cars should be available with stability control system.
- TRD should offer supercharger accessory.
- SportCross (touring) should have available manual transmission.
http://press.nissan-global.com/EN/EVENTS/autoshow.html#NEWYORK
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmView- Id=news_view&newsId=20040406005372&newsLang=en
There is an interior pic available, but I can't post it on this site. Let's just say it's definitely better than the current G and M's interior.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/concept_cars/2004/4/04- _ny_auto_show_preview_2/
325i It does not have all the options TL has but then again I do not want all the options TL offers and charges for.
A few months back, my comparo shopping started with the BMW 330i Sedan. With the all the options I wanted, it didn't take long for the price to reach and exceed CDN$50,000. Then the TL came along and for about CDN$10,000 less, my needs were greatly satisfied.
I know you're on the fence but have you considered adding the Infiniti G35 into the mix?
The interior is definitely better than what Infiniti has been offering so far, although we'd have to wait to see the production model in person to judge the quality of materials.
My issues are :
1. OEM tires flatspotting during last winter but it seems okay now (warmer weather).
2. Seat memory lost a couple times(or I thought it was) but not anymore.
3. paint coat on the muffler area chipping
4. No auto lock feature (I'm used to it I guess)
5. Need bigger front hip room
6. The car is too wide, although it fits into my garage but getting in and out is a problem.
7. Nose is too low.
8. Avg city mpg is only 23-24
9. Xenon lights is too bright making the dark area more darker.
10. Suspension is not soft enough compared to my accord.
No rattle/squeaks/brakes problem so far.
How the blazes do you drive that car? My friends with G35s get low 20s to high teens! That's with mostly freeway driving too.
10. Suspension is not soft enough compared to my accord.
??? You bought sport coupe that's a stretched version of the 350z, what did you expect?
BTW, I wasn't real fond of the ultra-low ride in the 35 coupe. But man oh man was it sexy. they desperately need a convertible version of that bad boy.
I am not fond of the car's suspension, that's all. I like comfort, remember.
I never liked M45 butt, but I do like G35 coupe and M45's interior upgrade.
Oh and 2.09 for premium is cheap! I'm paying that for regular. Premium is around $2.30 a gallon here. and my 4 banger Protege gets about 28 mpg if I drive it fast and hard, 30+ if I only do 75-80 on the freeway.
*No compass
*Stock all-season tires
*Touchy throttle tip-in
*Thin paint chips too easily
*Stering wheel audio controls allow for volume adjust and track select, but not disc select.
*I don't get to drive it often enough
1) Whoever designed the cupholder over the stereo is an complete moron.
2) Sun visors are so small, they are useless.
3)Center console is over the parking brake, so to apply parking brake you need to move the center console. Not very smart.
4) HVAC unit could be a lot more easier to use.
5) When you run out of windshield wiper fluid you get this annoying beep every 10 seconds...and the symbol for "no windshield wiper fluid" takes over the HUD. Audi, engineers!, windshield wiper fluid is not THAT important.
BTW, the first time my old Jetta ran low on gas the car let out this horrific shriek. I was certain the whole car would self destruct in seconds. A simple light would have been good enough, not a defcon 4 warning.
Brian
but when I go acrost states driving.... thats a different story I hate to pay those gas prices...
6 CD changer standard vs 1 Disc
2 drink holder in center storage box.
Deeper storage pockets in front doors.
Firmer damping springs to limit bump stop bashes with hard driving on bumpy roads.
Thanks!
-needs more power
-HVAC controls are too flimsy and confusing ('05 interior upgrade seems to have addressed this issue).
-I tend to like it, but a couple of my friends who have driven the car find the shifter (shift gates) to be too vague.
-low profile wheel/tire package is so low that the it is VERY easy to get a little curb rash on the alloys. Even the treadles at the local car wash can mark up the alloys!!
-trunk is too small (I have to pull my driver out and place it on top of my golf bag).
-any $30K+ vehicle should have a standard CD player. I had to get the 6 disc changer in the glove box.
-after having to have my windshield replaced, the rain sensing wipers have a mind of their own.
6 CD changer standard vs 1 Disc
2 drink holder in center storage box.
Deeper storage pockets in front doors.
Firmer damping springs to limit bump stop bashes with hard driving on bumpy roads.
1. You can't select or hold 1st gear with the e-shift automatic gear box. If you launch from a stop with something less than 2/3rd throttle it will short shift to 2nd to save fuel.
2. The front dash side vents have chrome stripes on the louver directional levers that reflect in the door glass about eye level with the side mirrors. The solution is to black them out with a marker pen.
3. You can't deactivate the skid control. I found VSC to be a little intrusive during a trip to the local race track on a wet day
4. The traction control is way to sensitive. Fortunately you can turn it off so you can take full advantage of the Limited slip.
5. Shock valving. on the e-shift car is a little too soft when you approach the handling limits of the car.
6. The paint chips far too easily. A clear bra is your friend in this case.
7. I have the SportCross version and it doesn't have an internal rear hatch release button or lever. The hatch is manually open from the outside when all the doors are unlocked.
http://hondanews.com/CatID3046?mid=2004040738738&mime=asc&- ;amp- ;archives=t
Conservative but pleasing styling outside. Good job on the interior as well.
3.5 V6 w/ 300 hp and AWD.
RL = big Accord
BTW...I feel the same way about the new M45. Looks like mix between a Q45, G35, Altima and Maxima.
1 When passenger seat built cover is left in an upright position it rattles against side of the car
2 Engine sound gives more of a whining noise than a roar like my previous CLK430.
3 CD takes too long to change cd's
4 Brake dust is excessive
5 no memory seats
6 Bose system lacks quality in the mids and highs area