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My list? A3 2.0/A4 base, Volvo S60, Acura TLX, BMW 320i/328, Infiniti (Q50? they lost me with their model names), maybe a VW GLI loaded up, lexus IS, Benz CLA (C class still qualify with the new model?), Caddy ATS, Buick regal turbo.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
As I wrote before, to me ELLPS doesn't exists anymore. Its original purveyors (3-series, A4, C-class) moved on to chase higher sales volumes from people with thicker wallets, their imitators moved into those leftover niches, but with their own philosophies and the category was stretched and fragmented.
Basically, any given version of those original brand cars has to lose one of the letters. Their true sports luxury versions are no longer entry level, as they cost easily over $50K, sometimes even $60K, their "entry sports" versions lack some features found in $15K Kia or Hyundai, which makes one wonder about the luxury part. The market fragmented into too many sections and subsections for that category to be distinct. Anything that size now can fit.
The closest model to true ELLPS in last 10 years, IMHO, was probably Infiniti G50, especially in its first couple of generations. The engine and suspension made it "performance", pricing made it "entry level", standard leather and other stuff made it luxury. I'm not saying it was the best car for the money, but I think it was closest to the definition of that category.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Do they sell this in the here- USA?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
It's interesting how much difference a few years makes with respect to perception...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2018 430i Gran Coupe
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Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Blurred lines, but from the C&D review, the answer is Jaguar XE. Beam me up, Sir William...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
My first BMW was a 1973 Bavaria 3.0 that my girlfriend-now wife of 29 years-found for me back in 1983, so when I bought the '02 by accident(long story) on eBay in 2008 it really was like going home again. The 2002 is lightweight yet feels solid; all the controls are reasonably direct and the 2 liter four does it's best- but with only 100 bhp it can only do so much. Aside from an Alpine AM/FM/CD?Sirius XM head unit all the modifications on my car are period correct-E21 Recaros, Weber 32/36, Delta CD ignition, Bosch Red Coil, Bilstein HDs-so the original character of the car shines through. Even with a direct top gear it easily cruises at 80+. Grip is good but body roll can be unsettling to those used to modern levels of roll stiffness. Still, I could easily see myself using a 1973 tii(with a five speed retrofit, rotary A/C compressor, and a decent head unit/speakers) as a daily driver. No, an E10 is most definitely not for everyone, but for those it speaks to, it is a revelation.
I consider the E36/5 ti to be "The Last '02" since it was the final BMW four seat coupe fitted with a semi-trailing arm suspension and a naturally aspirated four cylinder. Unlike the 2002, the ti is much more suitable to use as an entertaining(and economical) daily driver. It has a great HVAC system, adequate power(with a Turner/Conforti chip, at any rate), ABS, and front airbags. The only things I really miss(besides 100 extra bhp) are heated seats and wheel mounted audio controls. It weighs in some 550 pounds less than a 228i- and is 10 inches shorter. When BMW Individual was building my Club Sports they tried to make me take the "optional" sunroof but my salesperson stepped up and thus my car was built without a hole in the roof. For me, the car is just about perfect; light, nimble, and a ball to drive. The M42 engine does not suffer lazy driving; if you don't like keeping an engine "on the boil" than this definitely isn't your car. And on a winding road what shines through is the car's lack of mass. I've been reading how Mazda's new Miata will weigh close to what a 1994 Miata weighed. It would be nice if BMW started making weight reduction more of a priority. Speaking of vehicle weight, did you know that US safety standards require that the front airbags, side curtain airbags, and interior be designed to protect an unbelted 160 pound male? That's ridiculous, every state has a mandatory seat belt law, so safety systems should be engineered to protect properly restrained occupants. I'd think that would allow a significant reduction in weight and complexity. And anyway, at some point we need to let the Law of Natural Selection take its course.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I would think we're talking about a particular family of vehicles and that if we really mean LPS (as part of the acronym ELLPS), well you are indeed speaking of the entire family of 3 series from the lowest MSRP version (totally stripped, but, virtually never sold that way) all the way to the fully loaded M3. Where else would you put the M3 if not ELLPS? And, for that matter where would you put the "typical" 335 if not ELLPS, it certainly isn't going to fit in with the LPS cars (where the 5 series family inhabits).
$45K - $65K does cover about the widest range for all the cars that are generally considered in the ELLPS family. The thing that seems likely to make the number beginning with the "$4" as the bottom line number is the inclusion of the L & P, there are plenty of "S" (sedans) out there that can be had for $45K at the upper limit, but they are generally not going to be invited into the "LP" club. I would assume that Cadillac actually would begrudge a Regal (a Regal GS) the key to the ELLPS washroom, if the comparison is between the Regal and the ATS. Cadillac probably wants the ATS (all variants) in the ELLPS class and the CTS in the LPS class these days. Buick, based on the test reports of the LSS (Luxury Sport Sedan) Regal GS (starting at $40,195), I would think the Regal "family" can probably qualify. Where it becomes a bit dicey is that the bottom of the line model probably would be considered to be quite a bit less full of the "P" and the "S" of the bottom of the line ATS. And the middle child ATS can easily swim upstream to an MSRP of $55K+ without breaking a sweat.
The point, to repeat, is that the EL apparently seems, more than anything else, to represent the size of the vehicle; but the LP seems to classify the vehicle based on both luxury content and performance abilities. The range, I would think doesn't top out at $45K, frankly it probably starts north of $40K and keeps on going well into the $60's and as long as they are utilizing the same underwear (thinking of the base 3 series BMW at the bottom and the M3 at the top), going all the way into the $70s certainly isn't that much of a stretch.
This is the best range of cars, features and costs there is, methinks.
I'm just not interested in an Impala or a Malibu, no matter how tarted up it gets (but I think they are styled pretty nicely these days.)
I mean, we aren't talking option packages here. These are different models with their own base prices.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
same thing in the normal sedan class. A Civic today is the size of an Accord from a few generations ago.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Where do the "more expensive" versions of a model go if not here -- a 335 or an S4 are certainly very very similar, dimension wise to the 3XX and A4 variant from whose loins they sprung, eh?
EL is, today, a size or internal designation (not price); LPS indicates Luxury (which adds cost and sometimes great cost) and Performance (which adds costs and sometimes ooober cost). I cross shopped an A4 Prestige with most options with an S4 Premium+ with three options, because they were "within reach" of each other financially. I did not cross shop a maxed out A4 Sline with an RS5 (sorry there is no RS4), but had there been one to choose from, I presume I would still have considered the RS4 as an ELLPS since there is no way someone would confuse it with an A6, S6 or RS6 (or RS7 in the case of this line, since the RS6 isn't imported to the US).
The sales rep I deal with told me he had "quite a lot" of S4's coming off lease (that would be the ones prior to the V6 supercharged version, i.e, V8's) and that a number of these customers just couldn't fathom getting an A5 class without a V8, so they went with an RS5 rather than sticking with an S5.
In this class of cars, I think folks look at the size of the vehicle and determine if "this is the size car I see myself driving", then they begin with packages, options and accessories until they have the car customized to their liking.
A fully optioned A4 2.0T Prestige with optional features is very close in price to a somewhat less decked out S4, hence my consideration of both. I assume BMW shoppers do the same thing -- they go in for the 328 and trick one out with the option sheet and then test drive a 335 with a few less options and say, "I'm going to stick with the EL (size) but forego a bit of L for a dose of P in my 3 series Sedan. Happens all the time.
My wife -- set on a Q5 3.0T Premium Plus with about 4 additional options -- test drove an SQ5.
Katie, bar the door -- the 3.0T was super nice -- but the Performance of the SQ was intoxicating.
She did not, however, cross shop with a Q7 or a Q3 -- she wanted the size first, performance second and luxury third. Some folks probably switch second and third -- but there is a cost regardless.
Know too, that some folks (my wife included) checked out the Q5 2.0T first and was "this close" to the buy, until she test drove the 3.0T and was "this close" until she test drove the SQ, and so it goes.
We choose not to afford a Macaan Turbo (which was close to $90K comparably equipped), but within the family, the choice was Q5 2.0T all the way to the SQ5 with the OMG engine.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The first 'real' sport sedan I ever drove was a BMW 2800.
[ Precursor to the Bavaria. ]
Straight 6, 4-speed manual trans.
For many years thereafter, this defined 'Sport Sedan' for me.
I would love to have a Bavaria - with the drivetrain from
a BMW M235i.
- Ray
Not likely - even if I win the lottery . . .
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The part that conveys the cost factor is the amount of the content of Land P and a "certain something" that somehow we all understand, but like the word "quality" is a bit more difficult to define. A Chevy with a 110" wheelbase is not a member of the ELLPS club. A BMW 3 series, no matter how tarted up or down, however, is.
If the bothersome two letters are EL, well that is beyond our capabilities to modify. These are smaller LPS cars, and generally they cost less than their LPS counter parts. That, I think, is why a strippie 3 and a fully loaded 335 are both ELLPS cars.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Of course, Acura included!
The category is bigger and better than ever.
Acura TLX V6 SH-AWD
Audi A3, S3, A4
Buick Regal GS AWD
BMW 3 series
Cadillac ATS
Cadillac CTS
Infiniti Q40
Infiniti Q50
Lexus IS
Mercedes-Benz CLA
Mercedes-Benz C-Class
Volvo S60
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
And I don't know about the CTS - it's always straddled the line between the entry-level (however we may define it) and the "next level" - earning comparisons to both a 3-series and the 5. With the intro of the ATS, I'd propose the CTS has been placed firmly into the 5, A6, E-class category.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
I agree with you about the CTS, but some of our own have scored these cars for many thousands off sticker which brings them firmly into the price class.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Perhaps we can then say that a base 3 series and a fully-optioned 335 are both ELLPS cars because they both start out at a price point of $X.
My car, today, is at the Audi dealer for its 25,000 service interval. Since the dealer has a policy of "trying" to match the loaner they provide with the car in for service, I was provided with an S4 for the day. The thing has 1,800 miles on it and is Misano Red Pearl in color (this color is a $500 option); the car also has the B&O sound system upgrade and blind spot monitoring. As a loaner, it also happens to be one equipped with the S-tronic (dual clutch) automatic transmission.
I consider this car below what I would think almost anyone, today, would go for -- but the dealer general manager says no, this car is EXACTLY the base model from a practical perspective, because "they can't sell" a version without some level of equipment above "book" entry level (what I would call a true stippie).
Indeed, since the car does not have MMI, it will probably only sell because it will -- eventually -- come out of the loaner fleet and be subject to very heavy off MSRP discounting. The "on the lot" cars virtually all have MMI+, those that don't were probably ordered specifically without nav with the dealer knowing they would end up in the loaner fleet.
You may or may not chafe at the nearly $3,500 price tag for the MMI+ system, but the take up of that option is, apparently, nearly universal, as is S-Tronic. Yet, sitting on the showroom floor there are a couple of A4's (and one of them, too, is nav-less); I would argue that the base price of these Junior-LPS cars is rarely seen by the actual buyers, since most folks do, typically, go for the "popular" option group.
I must note, too, that one reason for the majority going with the popular option groups and/or packages is that the lease calculations FAVOR the high-content variants over the maxed out variants and the strippie variants. Some car-actuary has figured out what will retain the highest residual -- and that, these days, is medium to medium high loaded.
So, if price, not size, is to be the rule of the day, I would have to submit that the price range of cars that fit the bill of ELLPS must be on the order of $39,999 to $69,999; after all it is possible to start out with a BMW 328 "Walmart" (or TJ Max) version and max out at a 335ix "Bespoke" (so to speak) and spend tens of thousands crossing the chasm from pauper to prince.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
They make it pretty clear what vehicles are the intended competition, or which ones were used as benchmarks. If those include the 3-series, A4 and/or C-class, I'd say it's in the segment. Whether or not they compete well in the segment is a separate argument.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Of course, that being said, the range ($) is now slightly broader.
E.G,
320i Sedan
320i xDrive Sedan
328i Sedan
328i xDrive Sedan
328d Sedan
328d xDrive Sedan
335i Sedan
335i xDrive Sedan
Even:
328i xDrive Sports Wagon
328d xDrive Sports Wagon
And:
ActiveHybrid 3
Finally @ the top o' the BMW ELLPS pyramid, the :
M3 Sedan
And we now have rounded out the range of BMW's ELLPS offerings. I suspect we would exclude the X3, since it is technically in the Premium-SUV (or in BMW-speak SAV) class of vehicles, even though it is based on the 3.
The range, then (in base MSRP) is:
$32,950 - $62,000, not that you could with much certainty even find a "base" version (without special ordering it).
Just for grins: With most options/packages selected, BUT with zero (no) performance options selected, and keeping the car as a 320i RWD Sedan (not ix as more than half of them are configured) a 320i, optioned thusly has an MSRP of $47,325.
My suspicion is that "no one" will option a 320i to $47,325 (and if they do and select ZERO performance options from the order-sheet, that would be even harder to imagine); at that point on the food chain they will, see what could be had with the "28" option added and a few of the "L" options subtracted; and hey, we're at the dealership anyway, "ya got any 335's we could test drive?"
Remember -- assuming a Cincinnati BMW dealer speaks for the US dealer body, generally -- most of these cars are leased and when sub-venting comes into play and "fill-in-the-blank" luxury and/or performance option or package or both are offered up for another $30 a month, well frugal shoppers turn into fanciful buyers.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but my data point would be to note: "most" ELLPS shoppers don't go from whatever they used to drive to an ELLPS to give up such things as Bluetooth phone and audio integration, a backup camera and parking sensors and many other "we take them for granted" features they had in their nicely equipped Accords, Camrys, Nissans, and Passats just for the snob appeal (if there is any) of driving an Audi, BMW, Lexus or Mercedes.
Case in point, again: The loaner Audi S4 (@$52,200) I have today doesn't have a backup camera, park assist or bluetooth iphone audio integration-- who, in the wide, wide world of sports would spend (or expect to spend) that kind of cheese and not get a backup camera, etc? If my maximum spending ability prevented me from having these "essentials," I assure you I would not look at a German, I'd go Asian or American and probably not be looking at the ELLPS class. Hyundai Genesis anyone?
And, if it does count, then so do the 5-series, E-class, and even XF.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Based on a quick look, it seems the top versions of those Germans are pricing themselves out of this segment: S4 starts at $48K, S5 is $52K, C400 sedan is $48K, I'm sure the next generation coupe will me more. It's almost like there is forming a separate segment of "entry level plus luxury sports sedans", however oxymoronic it sounds, slotting itself in high 40s/low 50s base pricing, with options running up to $70K. One could add R-Design trim of Volvo S60 and ATS 3.6. One could easily make an argument for adding IS350 F and some may want to add top TLX, but I don't know about that. This segment would be distinguished by elevated performance bolted on essentially the same frame of their basic versions. Some additional differentiations by unique colors, interior versions, or other aesthetic treatments will separate those trims further.
Then M3/4 and RS4/5 with (future C AMG) could be called "high performance compact luxury sports sedans". ATS-V, if finally released, will surely be aspiring to that club. This segment will mean not only separate special engines, but special solutions related to suspension, weight reduction, chassis design modifications made specifically to support the performance. They'll usually have their own colors, increased comfort features, special interior touches, on much higher level of differentiation then models above. They are in fact, their own models. Call them "poor man's supercars".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
No way anything with a 6 in front of it should qualify as "entry level."
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I know if I were making twice the money I do today, I'd still be buying compact/midsize, but M4/3 or RS would likely make my list. And in that parallel universe, I'd probably think it's still "entry level".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
ELLPS:
Entry Level - what is the most basic model that will get you into the brand?
Luxury - in the eye of the beholder, but can the EL be upgraded to an ELL?
Performance Sedan - will it accelerate briskly, stop safely and take a corner without inducing intestinal distress?
So here is my list:
Acura TLX $31,445
Audi A3 $29,900
BMW 320i $32,950
Cadillac ATS $34,210
Infinti Q40 $33,950
Lexus IS250 $36,550
MB CLA $31,500
Volvo S60 $33,950
These all fit the characteristics I listed above. They all get you into the brand. They all can be upgraded with luxury goodies. They all can have their primary driven wheels upgraded to AWD and offer more potent power plants.