Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

flightnurse

First off attacking what a person drives is the first sign of a weak debater.

The Mileneum at the time was a great car, it was to have been part of the Upper Division that mazda was going introduce (Think Acrua, Infiniti and Lexus) however Mazda has $$ problems so the 929 and Mileneum never got the support from Mazda. Which is too bad since the triple rotor Cosmos would have came here to the states.

The G25 is a great car however it needs more HP, since the entry level 3 series makes more HP then G25. The G37 is no costing very close to that of the 335i when it comes to a few thousand dollars which adds only $10-30/m to payments why get the G37? The engine in the G37 isn't as smooth as the G35 was, or as smooth as the BMW. With the sport package the 3 series is a better handler.

BUT it all depends on what the buyer wants, Would I like a 400hp 3 series, YES, but I'm not willing to pay entry fee into the world of the M3. Cars are so subjective that its impossible to say what is better and what is worse.

kdshapiro

I don't base my purchase decisions on reviews or sales number, but I use them to inject a sense of reality into some of these conversations. Of course, Infiniti, Acura, Cadillac is playing catch-up to BMW in one sense.

On the other hand each of them has their own strong characteristics that would make them a compelling purchase for some lucky buyer.

tlong

Well I think you are not a good car picker and if you worked at a brokerage like you say I would not let you pick a stock either. You bot a Mazda milleneum, nuf said.

Strongly opinionated, aren't we? Apparently some people are ALWAYS right and couldn't possibly consider other opinions. Of course we saw that re: TSX.

ctl

These are all good cars, and different people have different opinions and tastes, so there isn't really right or wrong here. However, to be fair, I think it was billyperksii that thrown the first stone? a cheap shot at infiniti

graphicguy

Wait....let me get my popcorn. This should be a good show! :shades:

sweendogy

Billy,

There is a reason why Mazda no longer makes the car- no one bought it - pretty simple so yes i can bring sales numbers and professional reviews into a conversation - mainly because they are fact. I mean for you to have an option is fine but it's your opinion not the majority - you drove the last sudo lux car built by Mazda -that no longer exists . Infiniti has a car that saved the brand - even with its " harsh engine." For 40k it's a great car loaded. Look at flight nurse she couldn't swing the extra 10-30 bux a month and is stuck in the 328 when she wanted the 335 she keeps writting about. Btw I love when people talk about monthly payment verse actual cost - for me 10k is a significant number if your buying a car. If I was in that situation I would have test drove a g37xs just to actually see how it road.

billyperksii

Sweeny, I love you man but we are not always on the same page when it comes to logic and reasoning- aka-common sense.
If I inderstand you correctly, you are saying that if a professional sates an opinion in their article it is a fact?- really.
So lets take for example, Mr.X states that the Mercedes E63 styling is a little on the Edgy side-is that a fact or his opinion?
Better yet if Mr.Y states in his article that the G37X ride is harsh, tiresome and downright not suitable for the human body is that a fact or an opinion?- let me take a guess-its a FACT because the professional said so!!!!!
Bottom line, I value my own.
Secondly, the Millennia was a great car, I chose it over the I35, I could not live with that rear I BEAM that came with the I35-no love lost.

markcincinnati

You may be correct that the Mazda was a great car. I think the point that was being made was that it was not a commercial success.

My Mazda "great car" was an Audi allroad (2003) -- station wagons are apparently "hip and cool" (who uses that anymore?), CUV's have replaced SUV's somewhat because they are more car-like. The allroad was part station wagon (the cool part?), great CAR-LIKE attributes and it could go light off-roading.

It failed (in the US at least).

It is often a matter of showing the mfgr the money.

This is my concern about Acura. It seems they have sliding sales and somewhat lackluster products. Their next gen refresh is critical. Show them the money!

Drive it like you live. :surprise:

flightnurse

Dude, not all nurses are female, so before placing gender to a name, get your facts.

I never stated I wanted a 335i, I stated I would have gone for the M3, however in May its my partners turn for a BMW and we decided he would get a 535i, so I "settled" for the 328i because of this.

Why do I need 4WD car in Phoenix, AZ? Granted it snowed here in Phoenix 3 years ago, but it melted when it hit the ground. I drove the G37S, and the engine isn't as smooth as the in-line 6 of the BMW, the transmission isn't as good as the one in the BMW, the BMW I bought handles better then the G37S, also Infiniti wasn't willing to deal on the car. The 328i I bought (not leased) was a great bargain, and the resale value of this BMW is higher then the G37S.

shipo

"Why do I need 4WD car in Phoenix, AZ? Granted it snowed here in Phoenix 3 years ago, but it melted when it hit the ground."

I say roughly the same thing here in New Hampshire, "Why do I need an AWD car here in New England? Granted we had over one-hundred inches of snow last winter, but the plows get on it quickly."

From my perspective, a 328i shod with winter tires will be safer than a 328xi with the factory all-season tires when driven in slippery conditions. :shades:

sweendogy

In response - nurse I ment no disrespect by her vs him. Again I don't need the backstory on awd and Arizona my comment was about the actual car not the sub model. You also are quick to respond right after billy- I mean he's got this. . but you do write about the 335 alot thou you have to admit. The 3 year residuals are 49 and 48% with the BMW a touch better- wonder if this will change with the new BMW 3 out soon. My point in all of this is you have to put price in the conversation when talking about these cars- a car with a higher price should be better, right?
And for billy ... What logic and or common sense don't you get? I have stated sales numbers and published articles from professional car drivers. you should know this given your Investment banking background...homework before you buy something - that being said it does come down to taste when buying a car. You went "long" a Mazda - others did not- all about taste. Acura has been walking the milleneum tightrope for 5 years now. I'm "short" Acura "long" Infiniti and right now I'm in the black and am very comfortable with the trade right now.

fedlawman

FWIW, I would choose the 328i over any version of the G37 in a heartbeat.

Who cares about horsepower? Revving a BMW I-6 to redline and shifting that sweet 6MT is such a sublime experience.

I don't care how long it takes to get there, I just want to enjoy the trip.

billyperksii

Wow- you are in the black on a depreciable asset or maybe you meant- you went long on the actual Nissan stock and shorted Honda?
Right- Day Trader?

kdshapiro

Unlike you guys in AZ where it never snows or you guys in NH where the plows are on it like flies on fruit, in the great garden state I might actually have to drive on 10 or more inches of the stuff.

Subaru with all seasons no problem, g37 not holding my breath.

Ive already gone the rwd and snows route, not doing that again.

nyccarguy

Where I live in CT (Stamford, extremely southwestern CT) they don't plow the roads as well as they do in Westchester County, NY where I used to live. They also don't salt the roads close to my home due to the fact that many have well water. Last winter was my 1st "New England" winter & I know it was worse than usual. I've got a 31 mile commute to work & have to be there to open up at 7:30 AM (my name's on the door, can't be late). The 1st 10 miles that I'm in CT before I hit the NY border were treacherous. I'm not saying it can't be ordered, but pretty much every 3,5,&,7 here are AWD. You'd have an easier time finding a stick shift on a dealer's lot than a RWD BMW. Every single MB (not SL & SLK) has 4Matic. I've seen a total of 3 LEXUS IS w/O AWD.

I think every car (AWD or not) should have snow tires. Did I ever get stuck in my '01 Prelude with snow tires? No. Once last year, I had to drive NORTH (10 miles) into a snowstorm because the southbound entrance ramp had a foot of snow that hadn't been plowed yet.

sweendogy

good response- exactly what a person who works in IB and is waiting on his bonus would say. You should put the order in now for the E55 because im sure your going to get paid "size." but please put me on your do-not-call list at the firm you work for- Im sure there is alot of benjamins to be made on biotech, im not interested at this time>

biker4

"Who cares about horsepower? Revving a BMW I-6 to redline and shifting that sweet 6MT is such a sublime experience.
For only a few more months - the I6 is gone from the 328 series next year. :shades:

fedlawman

Yeah, the only thing about the new car that is disappointing. But it was inevitable.

flightnurse

No sweet regarding gender, I use it to my advantage, when I went to the LA BWM track days at Willow Spring raceway, some of the members were expecting a female, however when I drove up in my E90 with the ZHP packaged car the look was classic. Some people assumed since I was a nurse, I had to be a female.

When it comes to lease prices, the leases are better on the BMW then G37 and usually by a great deal.

Regarding your comment about if its more it has to be better, if the sum of all the parts are better, then yes its better. This is why BMW has been picked over the G series car over and over. The BMW pedals are set up for heal and toe, the transmission is smoother, the engine is smooth, the brakes work better. I haven't taken my 3 series on the track, this will change in 2 weeks, I'll be able to tell you more than.

Regarding the new turbo 4 in the 3 series, I was able to drive a new Z4 with the engine in it, have to say, the power build up is better then the I6, its harsher then the I6 but the Z4 is faster with the I4. So I suspect the new 3 series will be faster too.With a few bolt on's the new turbo 4 should be able to make 300HP with out breaking a sweat.

I wonder when Infiniti will up the HP on the G25, to me that is what is hurting the car...

sweendogy

"When it comes to lease prices, the leases are better on the BMW then G37 and usually by a great deal. " see below, these are from both infiniti and bmw websites-- i did some calculations..

2012 infiniti G37
$379 /month Lease for 39 months
$2,499 initial payment (includes first month)
2012 G37 Sedan Journey RWD with Premium Package - msrp 41k
comes out to 433 a month all in if you include initial payment

2011 BMW 328 msrp 38k- 36mth lease
• $349 First months payment
• $2,500 Down payment
• $0 Security Deposit
• $725 Acquisition fee
• $3,574 Cash due at signing
verse 438 a month all in for the bmw- plus you have to pay
At lease end, lessee will be liable for disposition fee ($350.00)

love the passion for the bmw- but your great deal comment is incorrect- Infact with the infiniti your getting an more expensive car thats one model year newer for less per month if my math is correct.

nyccarguy

Gotta pay for G37 maintenance

sweendogy

Yep - 4 or 5 oil changes and a couple of tire rotations - or about 100 bux less in maintence then the BMW return lease fee, next. Let's be a little creative people- also noticed the S60 now is part of the group which is a great add, still can't believe we have 2 acuras on the board Thou

Kirstie_H

Honestly, if someone is cross-shopping the two, intending to lease, there's not enough difference in price for PRICE to be the deciding factor. Plenty of people do like the BMW included maintenance. I think a few oil changes and tire rotations is a bit of an underestimate - it'll probably chew through brake pads (and rotors) as well.

flightnurse

If anyone put's down that kind of money for lease then they do not deserve to lease a car. Those leader ad's are just that, leader ad's. When I bought my BMW I could have signed and driven away with nothing out of pocket ZERO and payments of $599/m.

So if people are shopping and price is a factor then they can't afford either car.

m6user

So if people are shopping and price is a factor then they can't afford either car.

Price is always a factor to one degree or another. If you mean that $20 or $30 bucks a month or so shouldn't be a factor when buying cars like those discussed here then maybe I could understand where you're coming from. But what you said....ridiculous.

flightnurse

I disagree, there are two types of people who buy luxury cars, one who can afford it and the other are ones who think they can afford it. If people put down $4K on a lease to buy down the payment, these are the people who can not afford it. Then they shouldn't lease one. It's pretty simple... this is how America got into problem it is in....

nyccarguy

So many people DO NOT understand leasing. It is just an alternate method of financing (thank you kyfdx), not a cheap way of getting into a more expensive vehicle.

wireless

I think mostly it is a way for people to get into an expensive car they couldn't otherwise afford. But also it's a way to get a new car more often. Either way, I think it's mostly become popular due to the car companies pushing it. They can put a car out there for two years or so and take it back and resell and make a good profit; much more so than they can on new cars. Used it where the money is now for car salesman.

flightnurse

Interesting, if people lease car's the correct way, with no money out of pocket the price difference is more then $20-30/m. However if someone lease's the cheap way by using their own money to buy down the monthly payment then yes the price difference is $20-30/m.

When you are paying $500/m for a car it is nice to have maintenance included.

sweendogy

Leader ads? The information I posted is from each manufactures "special offers" web page. Im a little lost with your comments. Deserve to lease a car? theBorrow Rates are very low and used car prices (rresidual Val) made leasing avail for the masses. Imagine if you had to go to the dealership with a check for the car in full - your BMW 328 would be as common as a Mazda mulenium.