Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

flightnurse

you might be right, however one can not go back. I would think if the current TXS had more HP (and not coming from a V6) the car would be better then it currently is.

fedlawman

What is this "car payment" thing that everyone is talking about here?

It sounds like you give somebody money every month and every few years, the amount gets bigger? And it never goes away for the rest of your life?

This sounds like a horrible idea...

sweendogy

Again nurse I never mentioned anything about specific lease downpayments. I would defer to you on leasing as it seems you are the BMW leasing expert and I'm sure you got great deals on the 328 and the 535 you speak of. The 4k thing was never uttered by me- as I have told you in past posts - remember the ones you rebutted as "leader ads" when I told you they were posted on the company websites.

The fool comment is pretty funny- I think with each post you prove that point on your own.

On the afford comment - its an interesting debate - if you take financing and leasing out of the market place (obv this is not the case) how many people can actually afford in straight cash terms these autos.? Finance rates and used car values really make these cars available to the masses.

Billy market closed up 4% today.

flightnurse

Hey Fed, some people make car payments and come people do not. I have to say, our next purchase will have a payment behind it but not a very big one, should have it paid off in a year and half... Not bad for a 60K car...

flightnurse

Sweeny you have stated that I could have had a 335i for extra $10-20/m if I leased the car, since you assumed I leased it. You kept posting the "Lease specials" from Infiniti however it takes $4K out of pocket to get those lease specials, that is not smart buying... Use someone else's money to lease a car and take that $4K and use it for something else.. Lie maybe the stock market..

BTW, you asked how do people pay cash for cars... Three ways, they saved up to pay cash, second, made a killing in the stock market or third mommy and or daddy gave them the money.

For me it was #1 and #2. When I got out of college, I kept the car I had, a 65 Mustang coupe for about 10 yrs post graduation, at that time I would place $300/m in a savings account, Then bought Harley stock before the stock split (doubled my money) then split again (double it again) and finally split again (doubled it again.)

I was able to buy my first BMW cash, and a house in San Diego (this was before the big boom in housing prices) Since then done very well in the stock market and flipping houses (stopped flipping houses for now.) People can buy cars for cash, but there are sacrifices one needs to make to do it.
So my 2011 BMW was bought cash as well as the 2005. I take what the money payment would be and stick it in the bank so in 6 years I'll have enough to pay cash for the next one.

This is how people pay cash for cars.

BTW, the stock market has been very good to flightnurse the past 2 days, got to love when an airline files Chp 11...

sweendogy

Nice story- wow - I'm out

Kirstie_H

Not everyone can afford to pay cash for each vehicle. However, the key, as in all financial decisions, is to manage your debt. My goal has been to never be upside-down in a vehicle regarding value:debt ratio. Why does the amount have to get bigger?

I financed my last car for 5 years (due to unknown future financial circumstances) and paid it off in 4. When that was done, I had a nice downpayment that I chose to use to pay for an entire vehicle in cash. My SO, on the otherhand, has a vehicle he financed for 5 years, almost 4 years into it and it's almost paid off and he intends to keep it. If you're not upside-down and don't have visions of getting the most you can possibly afford, financing is a reasonable solution to not having the full whack.

(Stock market was nice to me too, especially Ford, which our stock club bought for something like $4 and sold a few months later for $7)

sweendogy

Interesting - what if finance rates were 10% ? Would you have financed or looked for a lesser car?

I agree smart thinking needs to go into taking down a material purchase - and given the current environment of higher used car values and lower bank rates are getting people into cars they would not normally afford. Maybe there is more to this... Thoughts

Btw new car sale numbers very strong for the Americans, Germans, toyo an Nissan. Honda still struggling with the flooding problems.

Kirstie_H

A lesser car. No one NEEDS a fantastic car. I chose to do that this time around and purchased a "lesser car" in lieu of financing, so that I could pay cash. Last time I didn't have quite enough cash for a "lesser car," plus I was driving a WHOLE lot at that point in time. Now I'm not. It was worth it back then to finance, and it didn't come close to stretching my budget.

flightnurse

What do you mean if rates were 10%, they are for many people. When you see those "special" rates from manufactures they are for "well qualified" buyers. Which is terms mean credit score greater then 700.

When it comes to keeping up with the Jones, people will pay to say in the car that makes them feel good... It might not be the top of the line model though.

sweendogy

Interesting pt, I didn't consider people without super credit. Are people walking in and leasing/financing 40k at 10%plus rates still? Or are theses people now saving, given the current Eco climate? Given recent car sales it would suggest they are not saving. If that's the case we are all in big trouble.

tlong

A lesser car. No one NEEDS a fantastic car. I chose to do that this time around and purchased a "lesser car" in lieu of financing, so that I could pay cash.

I read in an article once that if one person buys a new car every three years, trades in the old one, versus another person who buys a 2 yo car and drives it 10 years, repeatedly, and invests the money saved versus person #1s case, then person #2 will retire at 65 with a $million dollars saved by NOT buying new cars all the time.

I'm somewhere in the middle, buying new cars but always driving them 150K miles and 8-10 years or so. But I really do appreciate those who buy/lease new cars often, as it helps the economy. :shades:

nyccarguy

I think a lot of us here do have excellent credit that affords us top tier financing, but yes many people out there are taking out 7 - 8 year loans with 10+ % interest.

fedlawman

I used to be a new car every 3 years kind of guy. That changed once I had kids and a mortgage.

If only more people knew how liberating it feels to pay off a car and keep driving it payment free. Every time I think about owning a new car (Audi TT RS anyone?), I go in the garage and appreciate what I already have.

We are a brainwashed, instant gratification, consumer society.

shipo

We used to do the new car thing every three years as well. It's hard to point a finger at exactly what changed, but we ended up driving our two previous cars to nearly 200,000 miles each. Funny thing, we now have two relatively new cars (one bought in November of 2008 and one bought last month), and the interest rate on them is so low (2.9% and 1.9% respectively) we would have been foolish to do anything beyond putting the trade-in value of the old car "down" on the two new ones.

wireless

Are you saying you've gotten better than 1.9/2.9% on your money (that you didn't use to buy the cars) since buying the cars? Where have you got it then?

kyfdx

Kept a car for 6-7 years, well after it's paid off.... and leased every three years, with zero down....

Can't say that I felt superior to anyone else, either way...

If you have good credit and are responsible, then the difference is not that important. It's not a character flaw to buy what you can afford. Plus, if you don't put any value on driving a newer car, then why buy new in the first place?

Some people play golf, some buy cars...

shipo

"Are you saying you've gotten better than 1.9/2.9% on your money (that you didn't use to buy the cars) since buying the cars?"

Decidedly so.

nyccarguy

I completely hear ya on that front my friend. I wrote a check for my 2001 Prelude back in April '02, I financed my '10 TSX (5.65%) when I bought it back in August '09 & refinanced it @ 3.44% a year later. When we bought our '11 Pilot back in May (in anticipation of our baby girl, Whitney who was born on Tuesday), I financed it for 60 months @ 2.9%.

I've only got 3 years left on the TSX. As much as I would love to trade it in or sell it one day for a CPO 335xi, I know the smart thing to do is to try & keep it for 10 years (5 w/o payments).

Once I pay off the TSX, I'll be able to double up on my Pilot payments & pay that off early.

fedlawman

Tuesday, as in 4 days ago? Congratulations!

sweendogy

Congrats on the kid. Exciting times enjoy. Tsx 2010 wooh - well atleast you have the kid.

nyccarguy

Thanks for the kind words guys. Yes, this past Tuesday my wife gave birth to our little princess who happens to be the 1st girl & 3rd child in our family.

Sween - buy me a G37X & I'll gladly dump my TSX. If the G37 X would have gotten 1 more stinkin MPG (combined), I would've bought one back in '09. I bought my TSX using a $3500 cash for clunkers credit.

sweendogy

I would not call the tsx a clunker but again congrats on the baby girl. They are the best.

nyccarguy

The clunker was a 1990 E30 BMW 325iA coupe. It only had 82,000 miles on it, but was neglected. I had a new radiator put in, a new set of tires, & an alignment. The car drove great as a BMW should, but it had trouble passing New York State inspection. After it passed, the mechanic said to me that I should either find a donor engine or start paying him to rip out things & replace them with new parts. I knew it was time to "throw the towel in.". Cash 4 Clunkers came out & I had a 2007 X3 with 38,000 miles (with a year to go & 45K miles allowed for the lease).

I loved the 3 series, but it was out of my price range & too small.

I drove a Mini Cooper S w/ a 6 speed & didn't like it at all.

The G37X which I really dig didn't meet the gas mileage requirements for me to get the $3500 credit.

I drove by the Acura dealer & drove the TSX. I thought it drove like a big, 4 door version of my beloved 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH. I didn't like the electric power steering, but the car was to be my wife's daily driver. It has a huge trunk, room in the back for child safety seats, had thickly bolstered seats, a great engine & transmission combination, transmitted some road feel, I was impressed with the suspension dampening. I bought the car and am extremely happy with it.

Is a 328i a better driver's car? Absolutely. Is the G37 a balanced handling road rocket? You bet.

Is my TSX 75-80% of those cars on public roads? I certainly think so.

flightnurse

When I bought my BMW I was talking to the sales guy he told me that BMW will finance without stellar credit of a score of 640, but you pay, he quoted me about 8%. However used cars are higher.

People will buy just to keep up with others. Now an on interesting note, the same sale guy told me that when it comes to the 6 and 7 series cars, he will have more people pay cash for those car then fiance them or lease them.

5 series its a 50/50 split buy vs lease.
3 series is 70/30 lease vs buy.

sweendogy

Makes sense - would guess 7 series closer to 70 owned vs lease.

kdshapiro

People will buy to keep up with others? How about "I specifically know of a case where my (friends, neighbors, cousins, uncle etc) bought x car because they were jealous that y person bought z car". Smh.

dino001

Possible interpretation is 3-series is "entry" level, which attracts more people who don't really have the money, so they buy it on payment and 5-series is already out of reach for them.

It would be interesting to know what is percentage of those 3-series leases with terms like 10K/yr with 4K down - that would be a giveaway of "bologna sandwich budget with caviar taste, I have no money, no clue, but I really want that stuff" people.

dino001

People would not admit that openly. All you can do is read the signs, such as how much they make and how much they buy. I know personally several people who would buy stuff they shouldn't - all on debt. Zero savings, zero hedges, just good stuff in the house and house well beyond what they can afford, too. All they talk about is next boat, next sound system. Then occasionally they mention paying off the debt, but it lasts for about two minutes.

sweendogy

Good point- one of the reasons American economy is failing.