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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 12,004
    benjaminh said:

    Luxury VW Arteon hatchback sedan....

    The leather is definitely more Audi-like than Jetta-like.
    Mine's '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD 2.0T, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD 2.0T
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,816
    edited August 2019
    It just made my next car list. Looks very much like A5 Sportsback. Wonder if the 4motion AWD is exactly the same tech as Audi’s quattro, or is it different. That’s often really hard to find out, unless you browse all those Audi/VW geek sites and even there you need to be careful who to believe.

    Even if the package isn’t quite Audi, it looks like it will be 10 grand less, give or take for like configurations, especially in upper trim (mid 40s vs mid 50s), which seems a fair tradeoff if it delivers on essentials. VW has now 6-year btb warranty, probably to win trust back after the scandals, this definitely helps, as long as they make good on it.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 161,611
    dino001 said:

    It just made my next car list. Looks very much like A5 Sportsback. Wonder if the 4motion AWD is exactly the same tech as Audi’s quattro, or is it different. That’s often really hard to find out, unless you browse all those Audi/VW geek sites and even there you need to be careful who to believe.

    Even if the package isn’t quite Audi, it looks like it will be 10 grand less, give or take for like configurations, especially in upper trim (mid 40s vs mid 50s), which seems a fair tradeoff i it delivers on essentials. VW has now 6-year btb warranty, probably to win trust back after the scandals, this definitely helps, as long as they make good on it.

    The 6/72 warranty is over with the 2019 model year.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,816
    You mean 2019 is the last year? That’s a bummer. Wonder what will come after. Standard 3/36? So far no word on the website, probably because there are no 2020 models there yet.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 3,533
    dino001 said:

    You mean 2019 is the last year? That’s a bummer. Wonder what will come after. Standard 3/36? So far no word on the website, probably because there are no 2020 models there yet.

    4 yr/50k, same as Audi. From what I read dealers said selling an extended warranty became difficult with so long of coverage, hitting their profit potential.

    2018 VW Passat w/tech, 2015 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,816
    edited August 2019
    So it's all about dealers and their profit margins, just like those disappearing maintenance programs. I guess people need to get paid, who knew :wink: .

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    Looks like lease is the best bet on WV/Audi. Cost cutting to support past sins might delay quality improvements.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 12,004
    circlew said:

    Looks like lease is the best bet on WV/Audi. Cost cutting to support past sins might delay quality improvements.

    I don't really see any cost cutting. However, it does seem the S is now a rental fodder model trim line, the SE used to be loaded, but is now sort of the base model replacing what the S used to be, and the SEL is now the loaded up tarted model, but still not every bell and whistle, which is either the SEL R-Line or SEL Premium line.

    My wife just got a Tiguan SEL 4-Motion, and it's pretty darn good and loaded. I'd say it's overpriced, but not with a giant discount we were able to negotiate. It was based on the "Costco" deal, which is super aggressive, and I was happy having it matched. Some dealerships wouldn't "match it" and claimed there were probably "catches" to it. Other than having to listen to (waste time) the finance guy sales spiel trying to sell warranty on a 6 year 72K bumper to bumper warranted car, not really any "catches" at all.
    Mine's '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD 2.0T, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD 2.0T
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 39,222
    nice. So the Kia finally went back?

    I have the Tiguan on my "to look at" list. Has to be really nice to get my wife to consider a VW though!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 12,004
    nd
    stickguy said:

    nice. So the Kia finally went back?

    I have the Tiguan on my "to look at" list. Has to be really nice to get my wife to consider a VW though!

    It is nice!

    Digital HD cluster gauges in SEL trim. Once you get that, you never go back. Pano roof. A very nice leatherette, especially in interior gray color. We got the Stone Blue (sort of a grayish bluish hint of green) with the gray interior, a nice combo. Her first choice was ice silver which is like a super light almost white nardo gray, but that seems to have been discontinued as a color. One salesman suggested Audi wanted the color.

    8 speed auto, 2.0T motor tuned for 87 octane. Lots of room vertically and length-wise. Good looking well-designed SUV!

    The 6-year 72K mile bumper to bumper warranty is almost guaranteed to be used and come in handy, even if it were a Honda, which it isn't! It's also a TRANSFERABLE warranty so it's not a gimmick like Hyundai/Kia where the warranty is only good for the first owner. I will say the Alltrack was problem free for 31K miles.

    Wife says she got the 4-motion because it felt and drove better than the 2-wd model which she tested back to back. Says the AWD felt lighter/peppier, probably due to better acceleration, even in the dry. Something about the feel of AWD, which she said reminded her of the Alltrack drive, which is a good thing.
    Mine's '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD 2.0T, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD 2.0T
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 12,004
    andres3 said:

    nd

    stickguy said:

    nice. So the Kia finally went back?

    I have the Tiguan on my "to look at" list. Has to be really nice to get my wife to consider a VW though!

    It is nice!

    Digital HD cluster gauges in SEL trim. Once you get that, you never go back. Pano roof. A very nice leatherette, especially in interior gray color. We got the Stone Blue (sort of a grayish bluish hint of green) with the gray interior, a nice combo. Her first choice was ice silver which is like a super light almost white nardo gray, but that seems to have been discontinued as a color. One salesman suggested Audi wanted the color.

    8 speed auto, 2.0T motor tuned for 87 octane. Lots of room vertically and length-wise. Good looking well-designed SUV!

    The 6-year 72K mile bumper to bumper warranty is almost guaranteed to be used and come in handy, even if it were a Honda, which it isn't! It's also a TRANSFERABLE warranty so it's not a gimmick like Hyundai/Kia where the warranty is only good for the first owner. I will say the Alltrack was problem free for 31K miles.

    Wife says she got the 4-motion because it felt and drove better than the 2-wd model which she tested back to back. Says the AWD felt lighter/peppier, probably due to better acceleration, even in the dry. Something about the feel of AWD, which she said reminded her of the Alltrack drive, which is a good thing.
    We still have the Kia.... 4 cars is way too much though. Need to schedule the return. We are under-miles and she promised to drive it at least twice this week to work (tomorrow and thurs.). Probably should return it this weekend. Due date is Sept. 3rd.
    Mine's '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD 2.0T, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD 2.0T
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 39,222
    well, the Hyundai BtoB is transferable and that is 5/60. So only one year different. And in 2020 VW ditched the 6/72 anyway.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 12,004
    stickguy said:

    well, the Hyundai BtoB is transferable and that is 5/60. So only one year different. And in 2020 VW ditched the 6/72 anyway.

    Lots of 2019's left right now though.
    Mine's '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD 2.0T, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD 2.0T
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 39,222
    I should go see what they will offer on a lease!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 5,284
    stickguy said:

    Henry, I am with you. No spare tire is a hot button issue. Last blow out I had was at night, on a holiday, in the middle of nowhere. At least with the donut on I could get to a hotel, then next day find a tire store. The tire was shredded so yeah, no can of fix a flat was helping.

    I believe the TLX (at least prior to 2018 redesign) had a spare as an option. The ILX definitely did. Heck, if you pulled out the tray insert, the bracket with the screw hole to attach the tire bold was already there. And at one point they listed it as an accessory option on the build it page.

    the new RDX at least still has a spare. I would have to check a TLX to see if the tire well is still there.

    stickguy: Did you end up retrofitting your TLX so that it would have a spare? So far no problems with my tires. But I did renew my AAA membership recently, even though Acura has a tow service included with the car.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,896
    It's a Lazarus moment. The board is coming back to life after six months. Perhaps others will as well.

    Perhaps not.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 39,222
    I did add the spare when I got the car. The tire and kit is a dealer installed accessory. Probably a waste of money, but what can I say, I worry about stuff like this!

    Pretty sure I could take it out at the end of the lease and they wouldn’t notice but I didn’t keep all the foam filler parts so I’m not likely to bother.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 5,284
    The person in this video calculates that over 10 years a mid-level Camry with an msrp of c. $28k will have ownership costs of about $54k, while the lowest cost Tesla Model 3 over 10 years will cost about $52k. The basic argument is that it makes sense in the long run financially to get a Tesla. Maybe. But one thing that isn't taken into account is that a good discount off of msrp can be achieved with the Camry, while in contrast a Tesla I think always sells for full msrp. And so that right there more than erases the difference. And if you're really looking at lowest ownership costs over ten years, my guess is that a Camry hybrid, Accord hybrid, or Sonata hybrid will beat the Model 3 by a significant margin over ten years. Hmmm. The Tesla 3 is still an awesome and appealing vehicle, but it has a highway range of 250 miles, while my Acura TLX has a highway range of over 550 miles using the EPA rating, and since I often get c. 3-4 mpg over the epa rating in the real world, my actual highway range is about 600. But it is true that a Tesla goes from 0-60 a lot faster.



    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 28,115
    benjaminh said:

    The person in this video calculates that over 10 years a mid-level Camry with an msrp of c. $28k will have ownership costs of about $54k, while the lowest cost Tesla Model 3 over 10 years will cost about $52k. The basic argument is that it makes sense in the long run financially to get a Tesla. Maybe. But one thing that isn't taken into account is that a good discount off of msrp can be achieved with the Camry, while in contrast a Tesla I think always sells for full msrp. And so that right there more than erases the difference. And if you're really looking at lowest ownership costs over ten years, my guess is that a Camry hybrid, Accord hybrid, or Sonata hybrid will beat the Model 3 by a significant margin over ten years. Hmmm. The Tesla 3 is still an awesome and appealing vehicle, but it has a highway range of 250 miles, while my Acura TLX has a highway range of over 550 miles using the EPA rating, and since I often get c. 3-4 mpg over the epa rating in the real world, my actual highway range is about 600. But it is true that a Tesla goes from 0-60 a lot faster.



    66% RV after 5 years on the model 3? And 40% at 10 yrs? HAHAHAHAHA

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 52-car history and counting!

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 5,284
    I really enjoy the precision all wheel steering on the TLX. To me, that one feature alone is worth at least a grand, but actually it's standard. As far as I know, 4-wheel steering isn't available on any car costing less than maybe $70,000 or so, although I'm not sure what cars are available with 4WS even at that price. I do now that four wheel steering is available on a $90k Porsche Panamera, but it's an option that costs an extra $1600....

    https://www.porsche.com/usa/modelstart/all/
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 39,222
    My car has 4 wheel steering? I probably should have known that. It does have nice handling.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 5,284
    edited February 21
    stickguy said:

    My car has 4 wheel steering? I probably should have known that. It does have nice handling.

    https://www.acura.com/performance/modals/precision-all-wheel-steer

    There's a little video about it that you can click on here....

    https://www.acura.com/tlx/features#power-handling
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 5,284
    edited February 22
    Here's an article about the vehicles that have 4 wheel steering available, which includes some high end sports cars, and the Audi A6, A7, and A8. It's usually an option that costs a bit extra.

    https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2018/11/what-vehicles-have-rear-wheel-steering-.html

    And although it's buried in a deluge of all sorts of other info on the TLX, there is a section on Acura's 4-wheel steering in the TLX press kit for 2018....

    https://acuranews.com/en-US/releases/release-4ab1e0fb10674d7791526ba08c42d93f-2018-acura-tlx-overview
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 5,284
    edited February 22
    qbrozen said:



    66% RV after 5 years on the model 3? And 40% at 10 yrs? HAHAHAHAHA

    ALG apparently puts the RV of the model 3 after 5 years at 31%. 31% is almost certainly too low, but 66% seems too high. In any case, after 10 years the RV on a model 3 is maybe going to be at most 30%, which means that the calculation is off by another $4000 or so in saying that a Tesla model 3 is as cheap to own in the long run as a Camry.

    Also missing from the calculation is the cost of the Tesla home charger, which costs $500, with maybe an additional $500 to install. So that's another $1k where this calculation is off.

    The bottom line is that the model 3, rather than being around $2k less expansive than a Camry over 10 years, is probably closer to being $6k more expensive.

    But, if you compared a Tesla with a Mercedes A220 or BMW 3-series, it seems like the Tesla might come out on top in terms of 10 year costs.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 39,222
    wonder if that took into account the tax credits? another wildcard.

    one other thing with the 10 year comparison. The Tesla is basically a PC. in 10 years, the batteries may or may not work, and the car could be out of date and not upgrade-able. At least you know the Camry will be perfectly fine to just keep driving!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 5,284
    edited February 22
    stickguy said:

    wonder if that took into account the tax credits? another wildcard.

    one other thing with the 10 year comparison. The Tesla is basically a PC. in 10 years, the batteries may or may not work, and the car could be out of date and not upgrade-able. At least you know the Camry will be perfectly fine to just keep driving!

    Tesla has apparently used up all of their tax credits, and so those are no longer available:

    https://insideevs.com/news/390520/today-federal-tax-credit-tesla-gone/

    Tesla claims, however, that the battery on the Model 3 is designed to last at least 300,000 miles in regular use, and in few years that might be well over 500,000:



    https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-may-soon-have-a-battery-that-can-last-a-million-miles/

    The Tesla Model 3 at this point gets "free" software updates over the web:

    https://www.tesla.com/support/software-updates

    The current model 3 motor is designed to last perhaps as long as 1 million miles:

    https://electrek.co/2018/10/15/tesla-drive-after-million-miles-test/

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 3,533
    stickguy said:

    wonder if that took into account the tax credits? another wildcard.

    one other thing with the 10 year comparison. The Tesla is basically a PC. in 10 years, the batteries may or may not work, and the car could be out of date and not upgrade-able. At least you know the Camry will be perfectly fine to just keep driving!

    It’s the horror stories that I’ve read of owners with cars out of warranty or needing collision parts but can’t get them or have a long wait could be a big negative compared to owning a Camry or main stream vehicle.

    2018 VW Passat w/tech, 2015 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 5,284
    edited February 22
    sda said:


    It’s the horror stories that I’ve read of owners with cars out of warranty or needing collision parts but can’t get them or have a long wait could be a big negative compared to owning a Camry or main stream vehicle.

    Agree. My city of Louisville has about a million people, and yet we don't have a Tesla service center here. And so for service Tesla owners here I guess go to Cincinnati or Indianapolis?

    https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/services/United States
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 12,004
    sda said:

    stickguy said:

    wonder if that took into account the tax credits? another wildcard.

    one other thing with the 10 year comparison. The Tesla is basically a PC. in 10 years, the batteries may or may not work, and the car could be out of date and not upgrade-able. At least you know the Camry will be perfectly fine to just keep driving!

    It’s the horror stories that I’ve read of owners with cars out of warranty or needing collision parts but can’t get them or have a long wait could be a big negative compared to owning a Camry or main stream vehicle.
    Agreed, Tesla must not have realized how much $$$$ there is in replacement parts due to bad drivers out there.

    Probably little after-market supporting them so far too.
    Mine's '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD 2.0T, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD 2.0T
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 39,222
    the software updates (or lack of same) are what could easily render the car useless.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 13,719
    I'm still giving a hard look to the Stinger GTS. Normally you would have to beat me with a stick to consider an AWD car, but the GTS D-AWD system allows the driver to select the default F/R torque split all the way up to sending 100% of the power to the rear axle, which is also fitted with a mechanical LSD- a feature rarely found in AWD cars. My only real gripe is that the GTS isn't any faster than my 2er. I was hoping to get something legitimately quicker- running the quarter in the mid to low twelves.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 5,284

    I'm still giving a hard look to the Stinger GTS. Normally you would have to beat me with a stick to consider an AWD car, but the GTS D-AWD system allows the driver to select the default F/R torque split all the way up to sending 100% of the power to the rear axle, which is also fitted with a mechanical LSD- a feature rarely found in AWD cars. My only real gripe is that the GTS isn't any faster than my 2er. I was hoping to get something legitimately quicker- running the quarter in the mid to low twelves.

    Am I remembering correctly that the KIA Stinger is build on the same basic platform as the Genesis G70?

    And did I also hear that the Stinger has lease incentives of up to $10k?

    Sounds like an amazing deal on an impressive car....

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 28,115
    benjaminh said:



    Tesla claims, however, that the battery on the Model 3 is designed to last at least 300,000 miles in regular use, and in few years that might be well over 500,000:

    Yeah, and I’ve got a house full of LED lightbulbs that are supposed to last 10 yrs, yet I have to change them every 2, if I’m lucky.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 52-car history and counting!

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 13,719
    benjaminh said:


    Am I remembering correctly that the KIA Stinger is build on the same basic platform as the Genesis G70?

    And did I also hear that the Stinger has lease incentives of up to $10k?

    Sounds like an amazing deal on an impressive car....

    Yes, it shares the same platform with the G70. The Stinger is a bit bigger than the G70 but I think it looks much more interesting. And the current lease incentive is $10k- at least on 2019 models. On one Stinger forum there is a thread devoted to the process of leasing the car and then buying out the lease.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 5,284
    edited February 22
    So with the 10k lease incentive and a dealer discount is it possible to get a c. $45,000 Stinger for close to 30k?

    https://www.kia.com/us/en/stinger

    And since the base Stinger starts at c. 35k, would it be possible to get that model for as low as c. 25k?
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 13,719
    The Stinger I'm looking at is $48k- I'm shooting for $36k-$37k.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 5,284
    edited February 24
    When it comes to entry-level luxury vehicles, the list prices can often be deceptive.

    For instance the Audi A4 has a starting msrp of c.$38k, but as far as I can tell no such models are ever built or sold. The least expensive A4 at my local Audi dealer has an msrp of c. $45k.

    And then we have the example of the KIA Stinger, which seems like a very impressive car, the equal to something from BMW or Mercedes if they offered something like that, but at an msrp of thousands less. And because of the huge lease incentives the msrp of the Singer is deceptive on the other side. You might think that with an msrp of $45k or more that a loaded Stinger is out of reach, but since it's actually c. $10k less it becomes quite good deal.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 5,284
    edited February 25
    Alex on Autos likes the 44 mpg Lexus 300h, which gets the highest mpg for any luxury car that isn't a plug-in. Probably won't happen, but I'd like to see Acura come up with faster competitor for this model with the next generation TLX.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,816

    I'm still giving a hard look to the Stinger GTS. Normally you would have to beat me with a stick to consider an AWD car, but the GTS D-AWD system allows the driver to select the default F/R torque split all the way up to sending 100% of the power to the rear axle, which is also fitted with a mechanical LSD- a feature rarely found in AWD cars. My only real gripe is that the GTS isn't any faster than my 2er. I was hoping to get something legitimately quicker- running the quarter in the mid to low twelves.

    Cause faster is something everybody desperately needs. Without it we will all be lost... :wink:

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,816
    edited February 25
    benjaminh said:

    When it comes to entry-level luxury vehicles, the list prices can often be deceptive.

    For instance the Audi A4 has a starting msrp of c.$38k, but as far as I can tell no such models are ever built or sold. The least expensive A4 at my local Audi dealer has an msrp of c. $45k.

    And then we have the example of the KIA Stinger, which seems like a very impressive car, the equal to something from BMW or Mercedes if they offered something like that, but at an msrp of thousands less. And because of the huge lease incentives the msrp of the Singer is deceptive on the other side. You might think that with an msrp of $45k or more that a loaded Stinger is out of reach, but since it's actually c. $10k less it becomes quite good deal.

    My local dealers have several of $39.5K-40.5K A4s in their stock (within 50 miles), so it is possible to get one if you really want it (I wouldn't). In upscale German brands equipment levels is mostly a decision of a local dealer's inventory manager (within model allotments) and their view of the market. I've been following BMW's inventory at my local dealers once every so often and they can't be any different from each other. For example, one dealer may have majority of strippers ready for low-end leases, another may have mostly fully loaded stuff for 20 grand more. They may say they order "what sells", but nobody will convince me that markets 20 miles apart are so different from each other than you'll sell only white cars here and black cars there. It's all what these guys think sells and what they personally think looks nice and fits. It's all their taste and "feel". Then they sell it and as long as they hit their target, their confirmation bias will tell them they made correct decisions. If they don't, they'll blame slowdown, four seasons, drought, snow, rain, wrong Moon phase and current president of the United States. I don't think there is any science there at all.

    Kia's MSRPs are pure fantasies drawn by accountants in the beginning of the model, later brought to reality, just like domestic manufacturer's.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 39,222
    That’s a plus (or minus, depending on your perspective) of the traditional Asian packaging model. Like Acura. Just a few trim levels (option packages), so a a spec at one dealer is exactly like one at he next dealer. Just about everything is standard. And in this case, with base/tech/advanced, you can get a lease special strippo, a well equipped model, or almost silly level of gizmos. Plus a sport trim.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,816
    edited February 25
    stickguy said:

    That’s a plus (or minus, depending on your perspective) of the traditional Asian packaging model. Like Acura. Just a few trim levels (option packages), so a a spec at one dealer is exactly like one at he next dealer. Just about everything is standard. And in this case, with base/tech/advanced, you can get a lease special strippo, a well equipped model, or almost silly level of gizmos. Plus a sport trim.

    I like long standard equipment and short comprehensive packaging approach in Acura (Lexus and Infiniti are much more elaborate). My only beef is that their model lineup is short (no hatchbacks, wagons, or any other "special" type of vehicle) and their color combinations are very limited in comparison with Germans. They are all about playing it safe, whereas Germans are willing to take chances, make some special models for individuals with "off-beat" tastes, and pare it back when necessary. I haven't seen Acura taking any real chances in their model lineup, Lexus made some efforts in high end performance range, but generally they are all a bit too oriented for the average buyer in that segment. Basically cookie cutter. Very well made, very well appointed, but cookie cutter nevertheless.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 13,719
    dino001 said:


    I like long standard equipment and short comprehensive packaging approach in Acura (Lexus and Infiniti are much more elaborate). My only beef is that their model lineup is short (no hatchbacks, wagons, or any other "special" type of vehicle) and their color combinations are very limited in comparison with Germans. They are all about playing it safe, whereas Germans are willing to take chances, make some special models for individuals with "off-beat" tastes, and pare it back when necessary. I haven't seen Acura taking any real chances in their model lineup, Lexus made some efforts in high end performance range, but generally they are all a bit too oriented for the average buyer in that segment. Basically cookie cutter. Very well made, very well appointed, but cookie cutter nevertheless.

    I generally like Toyota trucks and SUVs, but the only Toyota/Lexus car I would seriously consider is the Supra.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 10,937
    but the only Toyota/Lexus car I would seriously consider is the Supra

    Well that makes sense as it's mostly a BMW anyway B)

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 13,719
    dino001 said:

    I'm still giving a hard look to the Stinger GTS. Normally you would have to beat me with a stick to consider an AWD car, but the GTS D-AWD system allows the driver to select the default F/R torque split all the way up to sending 100% of the power to the rear axle, which is also fitted with a mechanical LSD- a feature rarely found in AWD cars. My only real gripe is that the GTS isn't any faster than my 2er. I was hoping to get something legitimately quicker- running the quarter in the mid to low twelves.

    Cause faster is something everybody desperately needs. Without it we will all be lost... :wink:
    What can I say? It all goes back to-as I call it- my "misspent street racing youth."

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 13,719
    tjc78 said:

    but the only Toyota/Lexus car I would seriously consider is the Supra

    Well that makes sense as it's mostly a BMW anyway B)

    I also like the 86- I just wish it had abou 100 more hp.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,816
    edited February 25
    BTW, I looked into incentives on Stinger. Up to 9.5 grand, but only if you take the specific lease through a captive program (24 month for the highest rebate) plus 1.5K conquest and whatever else may come, which can still be a great deal, considering the residual will likely be inflated vs. real value. That's insane. I think they overproduced big time, especially those "GT+" models.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 161,611
    dino001 said:

    BTW, I looked into incentives on Stinger. Up to 9.5 grand, but only if you take the specific lease through a captive program (24 month for the highest rebate) plus 1.5K conquest and whatever else may come, which can still be a great deal, considering the residual will likely be inflated vs. real value. That's insane. I think they overproduced big time, especially those "GT+" models.

    $12,200 lease cash for 24 months on GT2 AWD.

    6 trim levels have lease cash at or above $10K for 24 month terms.

    Many, many people are "leasing", then immediately buying out the lease.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 5,284
    Michaell said:

    dino001 said:

    BTW, I looked into incentives on Stinger. Up to 9.5 grand, but only if you take the specific lease through a captive program (24 month for the highest rebate) plus 1.5K conquest and whatever else may come, which can still be a great deal, considering the residual will likely be inflated vs. real value. That's insane. I think they overproduced big time, especially those "GT+" models.

    $12,200 lease cash for 24 months on GT2 AWD.

    6 trim levels have lease cash at or above $10K for 24 month terms.

    Many, many people are "leasing", then immediately buying out the lease.
    That's a jaw-dropping lease incentive. Amazing deal.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,816
    wow

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

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