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Comments
This is hard to do on a conventional 4:3 screen!
Craig
Bob
It has an optional 115v/400w grounded outlet in the bed for power tools! Just what I've been asking for in the next Baja.
Bob
That picture of the back seat clearly shows the 3rd headrest, and I'll bet the new Tac has the 3rd shoulder belt arrangement they put in the Tundra. Wonder if the gas mileage still stinks with this new engine. The old V6 was only marginally better than the 4.7L V8.
Nicholas
Pathfinder's 4.0l V6 is rated at 270 hp and 291 lb-ft! 6000 lbs towing, Bob.
If they can nail the quality down better than the Armada/Titan had at launch, it'll be solid.
The old Frontier is a little frumpy so it'll be a big improvement.
As these keep growing the true "compact" segment is empty. Is there even a market for those any more?
-juice
~c
On my drive into work this morning I saw a car pulled over by a local policeman (township, not state trooper). The vanity tag on the car read "CARNET."
Ed
• It's shorter, and has a shorter wheelbase than the outgoing '04 model.
• It's a bit wider than the outgoing model
• Acura compares it to the medium European cars, E-Class, 5-Series, etc. I would have thought it would go up against the larger S-Class, & 7-series, even though it doesn't have a V8.
Since that's the case, one can only assume that the smaller TL is pitted against the C-Class & 3-Series. Following that thought, the TSX & RSX must be pitted against yet-to-be-announced US-spec A/B-Class & 1/2-Series.
This makes you wonder where current/future Subies fit into the picture. Right now I see the Legacy GT as a TSX competitor, not a TL competitor.
Bob
Subaru competes at the small end of each segment. Some actually still consider the Legacy a compact. That would mean Subaru does not even make a MID-size car.
-juice
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=265410
CRV gets a 5-speed automatic, and it may be standard if I read that PR correctly. Also 16" wheels and upgraded 4WD.
Bob
Look at the rear door camo. I swear it has 2 door handles, and 2 (highly-masked) openings.
Bob
These things will command full MSRP for a while, though, so it might be an alternative to a TL.
CR-V gets VSA. VDC still MIA on the F-XT.
Enough acronyms for ya?
Disappointing, though, Subaru has always led the safety charge and now they are behind both Toyota and Honda.
5 speed auto, too. 16" rims finally.
On paper, this is gonna make it very hard for Subaru dealers to sell the Forester. They'll really have to get people behind the wheel or they are toast.
<insert jokes about CR-V engine fires making toast here>
-juice
Since that's the case, one can only assume that the smaller TL is pitted against the C-Class & 3-Series. Following that thought, the TSX & RSX must be pitted against yet-to-be-announced US-spec A/B-Class & 1/2-Series.
I see them as value options against their stated competition. The RL looks like it matches up nicely against the 6 cylinder E/5/A6.
I see the TL as a value option for the low end E/5/A6 and high end C/3/A4 shopper.
The TSX again is a value option for low end C/3/A4 shoppers and looks like it will do the same for the high end B/2/A3 shopper.
BMW gets away with a comparatively small lineup, but only because of their performance.
-juice
I don't agree. Foresters still handle better than the CRV and the FXT still blows it away performance wise. IRT stability control, personally, I see it as a "nice to have" option and it would be far down on my list when shopping for a new vehicle. Perhaps that's because I've never owned a vehicle with stability control and don't know what I'm missing? then again, I can't recall the last time I needed it either! :-)
-Frank
VSA is nice to have, but safety sells, and it's something Subaru now lacks while both Honda and Toyota will have it standard.
The average Joe doesn't know the difference between the various AWD systems, either. Honda dealers will pitch VSA as a traction advantage.
Honda improved the AWD system and added a temp guage, and now heated leather is available. Forester has at a mininum lost a lot of ground.
I'd still buy an XT, but it'll be harder to explain why to non-enthusiast consumers.
-juice
Bob
I'm not talking about XTs, I'm talking about the X and XS models that do most of the volume, automatic at that. 4 speed, vs. Honda's 5 now.
-juice
The Legacy GT is most definitely their peer and competitor. It also competes with the TSX but definitely not the RSX, which has never strayed far from its Civic/Integra roots. The RSX is at most an Impreza WRX competitor.
Regarding stability management-- I do believe it's useful for most mundane drivers. for a vehicle with sporty intent though, it *must* be defeatable and the vehicle driveable with it defeated. an example: the G35's open differential helplessly spins the inside rear tire when stability management is off, and it instantly pimp-slaps any attempt at fun when it's on. a similar problem exists with the BMW 330.
~c
I say potentially because it depends on how they sort out the RT4WD, which is also revised. I bet they had to revise it for VSA to work.
Hyundai has traction control but it works only on the front axle, and when AWD engages the traction control is disabled.
So it gets a little complicated.
Still, Honda has a big selling point. You buy an SUV for the perceived safety, and VSA only adds to that.
-juice
If someone has to resort to bad mouthing the competition rather than emphasizing his strengths - major turn off to me.
Look at Bob's example, here is an extremely well informed Subaru fan, and he could not convince his daughter to get a Subie.
CR-V has advantages that are more obvious, like the huge back seat. The Forester's advantage are under the skin.
Most customers don't look deep enough. They buy then they come here to Edmunds and ask "did I get a good deal?".
-juice
Oh I could have applied more pressure, but that's not my style. I'd rather her be happy with her choice, not mine. She could have done a whole lot worse than a CRV.
Bob
~c
-juice
So far she loves the car. No complaints.
Bob
http://www.media.subaru.com./
Bob
The turbos aren't enough. I would like to see them sacrifice luxury for performance in the way of steering, handling and braking. No interior was more spartan than Porsche. This didn't bother the buyers, only the critics.
I can't see how you can own a Forester and Legacy yet criticize the X3 for roll. I can see someone liking a softer ride but roll comes with the soft ride, there's no way around it. The X3 has a stiff, flat sporty ride. Don't know if I want to spend that much in this category though.
Bob
-Dave
I would love it if the next Impreza offered this hatch body style.
Bob
-mike
The 350Z's automatic will blip the throttle when downshifting. That may be a first for automatics?
Bob
Bob
Might be. I know the SVX cuts 3 cylinders on upshifts.
-mike
New Miata spy photos are up in that thread, if anyone is interested.
designman: I found the GT's suspension was fine on the Las Vegas Motor Speedway infield course. Not loosey-goosey like you describe. On the oval with a pro driver we were over 120mph.
Perhaps you did not like the Blotenza tires, definitely the weak point in that setup. Still, it's way beyond the Forester and Outback's handling.
The X3 is tighter than the Forester but my complaint is the stiff ride. I noticed plenty of body roll on the course while driving, and while observing others drive.
The Forester probably rolls even more. I put a fatter sway bar in mine. But I can forgive it because the ride is 100% more tolerant. Bumps that whack your kidneys on the X3 are not even felt in my Forester.
You want a spartan interior with a stiffer ride? Mazda6 is the ticket, IMO. Maybe an Altima. No - Lotus Elise, that's the ticket.
Colin - what do you think, you had an M3 and tested the Legacy GT recently. We were comparing handling in the context of the 3 series, 325 and 330, do you think the Legacy gives up much to these?
Golf looks dorky. Like paisan I thought Civic Si, in my case from the profile.
The looker is the A3. It's almost like they had to uglify the Golf so the A3 could look better.
blip the throttle when downshifting
Not the first, Tiptronice by Porsche matches revs beautifully. May be the first mainstream brand to do that well.
-juice
I don't know about the current gen M3- haven't driven one yet, but the previous gen M3 was noisy and bumpy, but handling was a better, perhaps due to stickier tires. The current 3 series without the sport package drives softer than my GT, but again I think may pull the same grip because of stickier tires. I haven't driven one with the sport package.
My not asked for $0.02 ;-)
tom
hope it's nicer than it looks.
tom
-Dave
I gotta wonder, however, if these new Dodge/Chrysler muscle cars will have any real staying power, or are they nothing more than a 1-night stand?
Do you think they will still be around in say 10 years? Brands that have real success in the marketplace have been able to keep car lines for years. Witness Accord, Camry, Suburban, etc. These model lines have been around 20 years or longer. I'm not sure if the new Charger (or 300C, or Magnum) will be around anywhere near that long.
Bob
You'll probably see most of them being offered with the 6 - the Hemi will be marketing prose.