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Comments
they have a manual height adjustment to dip the beams if you have a heavy load in the back. a popular mod is to draw a line on a wall at the stock beam height and then dip the beams 1-2 adjustments --of 3-- it's pretty low at that point. then get a 10mm socket and manually adjust the beam back up to the original mark...
I adjusted mine so that they are 2 adjustments higher now, but that's pretty darn high I think so I just run them dipped 1 notch-- so 1 notch above stock.
the headlights are unbelievable. in combination with the projector highbeams, I definitely don't need driving lights on any backroads.
~c
-Dave
The '00-'04 OB and GT 4 bulb system do indeed work better than the 2 bulb Legacy L. Especially good with the Philips European spec bulbs. This was actually a big consideration for me when I looked at both cars. My Ody (2 bulb) is fair, but no where near as good as the OB.
Steve
Is our eyesight really that bad? How far in front do you need to see when the speed limits are 55-75? Are they truly necessary?
Once in a while I see some old folks driving around in cars rigged to keep both high and low beams on continuously, and I just shake my head. They shouldn't be driving at all if they can't see!
-juice
-mike
-juice
Some interesting comments regarding the Chrysler "Sto-'n-Go" folding middle row seats: While a great idea, apparently they are very uncomfortable, at least for longer trips. This was mentioned by Honda reps (well of course they would say that!), but was also verified by Anita Lienert, the writer here.
I'm pretty sure that type of folding seat could be made more comfortable. I just think Chrysler did their typical mediocre job of engineering them.
Bob
-Frank
That's why I'd opted for a HID auxiliary driving light versus doing a conversion/swapping the OEM.
They came in mighty handy at the last Northeast blackout.
-Dave
Honda's up to 77 complaints, 44 fires, yet no recall still. NHTSA did re-open the case, finally.
Bob - I only sat there for about 15 seconds, but the 2nd row seat seemed OK to me. I have heard complaints about thin padding and such.
Any how, sounds like Honda is making excuses.
-juice
It worked well with SUVs -- who would have thought 10 years ago that luxury SUVs would sell?
Just a thought as I noted how expensive and feature-packed these vehicles are becoming.
Ken
I think you will see it happen. It sounds like the Odyssey Touring model is tip-toeing into those waters. If that trim level proves successful, don't be surprised to see an Acura version in the not-too-distant future.
I believe MB is considering a lux-minivan.
Bob
My Quest has folding mid row seats- and they're quite comfortable for an adult (we just took it on a trip last weekend- 4 hours in the seats- no problems) with lots of legroom and plenty wide to support our, uh, legs. But looking at what they had to do to make the seats collapse makes me wonder how long they are going to last (There are 6 or 8 criss-crossing bars holding the seat up)
The folding mid row seats are very convenient if you need to carry bulky things (I actually moved an executive desk last year) especially if you tend to over buy at Costco. It's not like you can take the seats out and leave them there!
I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before all companies have the folding mid row seats too. Which makes the minivan incredibly practical (enough that I didn't need my full sized SUV anymore).
tom
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Clearly people are willing to pay a huge premium for decked out minivans, but the funny thing is that they are still being branded with their economy-car counterparts.
I'm taking a guess here, but are mini-vans the most expensive models from Toyota and Honda?
Right now, if you want a people hauler in the luxury segment, it's got to be an SUV. But SUVs are not as space efficient as mini-vans. Why not cut loose the upper echelon of mini-vans, throw on an AWD drivetrain and call it an Acura/Lexus/Infiniti?
Ken
Craig
Devil's Advocate here - But but but, I though Anita Lienert was the world's worst auto writer because she didn't overwhelmingly praise the Legacy about 2 weeks ago.
Bob
I think you will see it happen. It sounds like the Odyssey Touring model is tip-toeing into those waters. If that trim level proves successful, don't be surprised to see an Acura version in the not-too-distant future.
I believe MB is considering a lux-minivan.
Friends in Europe consider the ML a mini-van!
The luxo companies have mini-vans:
RX330
FX35/45
ML
MDX
Haaaaa
-mike
I've been saying for a while that the minivan segment has innovated the most, it had to just to survive. Notice that you either innovate or you lose sales, period.
Not so with SUVs, the Explorer is updated ever so slowly yet it still leads in sales.
The Aerostar, then Windstar, then Freestar has changed more than the Explorer has yet it keeps fading. It hasn't been enough.
Agree with tom on the Quest's 2nd row - very comfy, I like the fabric they use. They look a bit different but it's clearly designed around the passenger.
Craig: that glare is what I see in the rearview mirror of my Miata. Granted it's very low and the top is down.
robr2: once again I disagree with Anita. Remind me not to bother reading her reviews. And yes, she probably never actually sat in those seats just like she never drove a Legacy. ;-)
-juice
I've definitely experienced this as well. They are really bright.
I can also see shadows of other cars when I'm behind them-- my headlights are brighter than theirs so the road outside of their car's silhouette is brighter than the places where only their headlights are shining. LOL
~c
I hate looking at oncoming traffic with HIDs, especially in the rain. It's almost as bad a someone high beaming. I wonder how many accidents are caused by them each year.
I think it's great if people use them as auxilliary lights, and turn them off when not needed. But clearly halogens are bright enough and the color spectrum isn't as blinding.
Next thing you know they'll be putting them on lawn mowers. ;-)
tom
Those pseudo-SUVs are crossovers or maybe tall wagons.
Pilot was probably the most expensive Honda but the new Ody may change that. Of course that may be because there isn't an Acura version above it to limit what it can cost.
Loaded Siennas are POPULAR, in fact they carry a bigger markup over invoice than stripped Siennas do. People want them loaded, not stripped.
-juice
~Colin
-juice
tom
Oooooo - time to mod the tractor!!
In reality, the T&C and Sienna XLE (and maybe the Windstar Limited) really are not luxury mini-vans - no badge snobbery. I wonder why there isn't a Lexus version of the Sienna?
If anything, they saw how competitive the segment was and had to think twice about entering it.
-juice
IMHO that can be explained in 3 words.
High Gas Prices.
Real world fuel consumption for our Sienna was only slightly worse than my WRX, with the Yukon XL on a different level entirely.
Nicholas
I think that the mini-van market has grown because of competitive offerings from Honda, Toyota, and Mazda. Lots of loyal buyers in those camps were straying from the pack and accepting less than stellar offerings from DC, FMC, and GM or making do with Accords and Camrys. Wouldn't Subie loyalists look at a Subaru mini-van first??
They are great for picking up Bears from afar in the bushes with their reflective paint.
-Dave
Hey wait...you could do the same by buying a Legacy or Outback!
Jim
Steve
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6026041/
~c
-Ty
no need to apologize! ?
~c
Hey, did everyone know that Subaru's coming out with a 7-passenger SUV!!!?? ;-)
Ken
I crawled all over a new EX. Honda did a great job with it. The 3rd-row seat, besides now splitting 60/40, folds much easier into the rear storage well. The only thing missing is AWD. This EX model was an 8-seater, with almost a 1400 lb payload. They even had a new top-of-the-line Touring model, but it was locked up, and stickered ~ $35K, but had an additional $2500 ADM tacked on.
Bob
Besides juice, I ran into Hutch. Good seeing you guy!
Bob
~c
I will say this: MB has that 4-Matic pretty well nailed down. I could barely get those cars to slide at all on the wet and sandy sections.
Interestingly, the E320 turbo diesel has some turbo lag, but when it spools up, it really squirts. It is VERY refined for a diesel. This was the first diesel that I've driven in perhaps 20 years or more, the last being a MB 240D of the early 1980s or so. There's no comparison between the two.
Bob
the Mercedes 5 speed automatic is pretty nice, eh?
~c
I could actually go back again tomorrow and Sunday if I wanted to. The MB folks said it was okay to do so.
Hmmm...
Bob
http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/models/main.jsp&mod- elCode=S500V&src=MODELSELECTOR
Bob
Wow, talk about freebies when going to these shows! I wonder what's next? Start lining up folks!
The new G6 is supposed to be $21K- $29K. Kinda steep for a midsized Pontiac, I think. About the same price range as the legacy- more than a camry or accord- why would you want a Pontiac? It had better be nice.
Bob, let's see, I could buy a MB S500 or 3 loaded Subies and have money left over for gas. Or 10 Hyundais! I just don't see it. I think they're nice cars and everything but I wouldn't buy one (I'm trying to talk my parents out of buying one too!). I'd be interested in driving the E320 diesel though, the last diesel I drove regularly was a 300SD turbo (ha- useless) from the early eighties. I heard the new direct rail injection makes a big difference.
tom