Subaru Crew Cafe

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Comments

  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I have HIDs but they hit the ground 20-25' in front of the car as delivered from the factory.

    they have a manual height adjustment to dip the beams if you have a heavy load in the back. a popular mod is to draw a line on a wall at the stock beam height and then dip the beams 1-2 adjustments --of 3-- it's pretty low at that point. then get a 10mm socket and manually adjust the beam back up to the original mark...

    I adjusted mine so that they are 2 adjustments higher now, but that's pretty darn high I think so I just run them dipped 1 notch-- so 1 notch above stock.

    the headlights are unbelievable. in combination with the projector highbeams, I definitely don't need driving lights on any backroads. :) I'd have a hard time buying a car with regular headlights, now.

    ~c
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    once you've experienced it, you don't want anything less.

    -Dave
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    a look at the lumins output of 4 bulb systems vs 2 bulb cars does give you a big advantage. Then of course factor in reflector design, physical size and beam spread, etc.

    The '00-'04 OB and GT 4 bulb system do indeed work better than the 2 bulb Legacy L. Especially good with the Philips European spec bulbs. This was actually a big consideration for me when I looked at both cars. My Ody (2 bulb) is fair, but no where near as good as the OB.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Once you experience being in front of a pair of HIDs in a roadster, you'll want them banned. Or facing them at an intersection - in any car.

    Is our eyesight really that bad? How far in front do you need to see when the speed limits are 55-75? Are they truly necessary?

    Once in a while I see some old folks driving around in cars rigged to keep both high and low beams on continuously, and I just shake my head. They shouldn't be driving at all if they can't see!

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    For night driving out on the road, HIDs or very good lights are imperative IMHO for avoiding wildlife etc. I have my Huge Hellas rigged up to my highbeams only in my Trooper. The HID Projectors are setup on a seperate switch on the SVX. I only need them when I'm out on backroads or open highways when there are no cars in front or oncoming...

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You're the exception, though.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=16- - - 130

    Some interesting comments regarding the Chrysler "Sto-'n-Go" folding middle row seats: While a great idea, apparently they are very uncomfortable, at least for longer trips. This was mentioned by Honda reps (well of course they would say that!), but was also verified by Anita Lienert, the writer here.

    I'm pretty sure that type of folding seat could be made more comfortable. I just think Chrysler did their typical mediocre job of engineering them.

    Bob
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    For city driving you certainly don't need HIDs. In fact, hardly an evening goes by that I don't see at least one moron drving around in the dark without any lights on!

    -Frank
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Ya, HID for city driving is over kill.
    That's why I'd opted for a HID auxiliary driving light versus doing a conversion/swapping the OEM.
    They came in mighty handy at the last Northeast blackout.

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good to see Subaru issue a recall quickly and fix the issue right away (after 5 complaints).

    Honda's up to 77 complaints, 44 fires, yet no recall still. NHTSA did re-open the case, finally.

    Bob - I only sat there for about 15 seconds, but the 2nd row seat seemed OK to me. I have heard complaints about thin padding and such.

    Any how, sounds like Honda is making excuses.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    On the topic of mini-vans, how come no near-luxury brand like Acura, Infiniti or Lexus offer their version of a mini-van?

    It worked well with SUVs -- who would have thought 10 years ago that luxury SUVs would sell?

    Just a thought as I noted how expensive and feature-packed these vehicles are becoming.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Ken

    I think you will see it happen. It sounds like the Odyssey Touring model is tip-toeing into those waters. If that trim level proves successful, don't be surprised to see an Acura version in the not-too-distant future.

    I believe MB is considering a lux-minivan.

    Bob
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    A decked out version of the Sienna is about $43K- complete with Xenons, front and rear park assist, nav, and radar cruise control (I dont' know what Toyota calls it) how much more could a Lexus badge cost? I agree, I think there are plenty of people out there who would pay extra for a luxury marque minivan. I'm just not one of them! ;-)

    My Quest has folding mid row seats- and they're quite comfortable for an adult (we just took it on a trip last weekend- 4 hours in the seats- no problems) with lots of legroom and plenty wide to support our, uh, legs. But looking at what they had to do to make the seats collapse makes me wonder how long they are going to last (There are 6 or 8 criss-crossing bars holding the seat up)

    The folding mid row seats are very convenient if you need to carry bulky things (I actually moved an executive desk last year) especially if you tend to over buy at Costco. It's not like you can take the seats out and leave them there!

    I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before all companies have the folding mid row seats too. Which makes the minivan incredibly practical (enough that I didn't need my full sized SUV anymore).

    tom
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Wow! $43K for a Sienna!?

    That's exactly what I'm talking about. Clearly people are willing to pay a huge premium for decked out minivans, but the funny thing is that they are still being branded with their economy-car counterparts.

    I'm taking a guess here, but are mini-vans the most expensive models from Toyota and Honda?

    Right now, if you want a people hauler in the luxury segment, it's got to be an SUV. But SUVs are not as space efficient as mini-vans. Why not cut loose the upper echelon of mini-vans, throw on an AWD drivetrain and call it an Acura/Lexus/Infiniti?

    Ken
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    One downside I noticed last night in my wife's TSX -- they reflected off the truck in front of us which had a large chrome bumper, and were blinding.

    Craig
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Some interesting comments regarding the Chrysler "Sto-'n-Go" folding middle row seats: While a great idea, apparently they are very uncomfortable, at least for longer trips. This was mentioned by Honda reps (well of course they would say that!), but was also verified by Anita Lienert, the writer here.

    Devil's Advocate here - But but but, I though Anita Lienert was the world's worst auto writer because she didn't overwhelmingly praise the Legacy about 2 weeks ago.
  • ozman62ozman62 Member Posts: 229
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I often disagree with her too, but she may be right here.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Bob - I'm not saying she's wrong but the criticisms a couple of weeks ago was that she really didn't drive the Legacy. The article linked doesn't say that she sat in the Stow n' Go seats either. She's only passing on second hand information as far as I can tell.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Ken

    I think you will see it happen. It sounds like the Odyssey Touring model is tip-toeing into those waters. If that trim level proves successful, don't be surprised to see an Acura version in the not-too-distant future.

    I believe MB is considering a lux-minivan.


    Friends in Europe consider the ML a mini-van!

    The luxo companies have mini-vans:

    RX330
    FX35/45
    ML
    MDX

    Haaaaa :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Minivan segment was already shrinking by the time the luxury brands really started to hit it big and expand. SUV segments were growing so no surprise there, they went after the big bucks and succeeded.

    I've been saying for a while that the minivan segment has innovated the most, it had to just to survive. Notice that you either innovate or you lose sales, period.

    Not so with SUVs, the Explorer is updated ever so slowly yet it still leads in sales.

    The Aerostar, then Windstar, then Freestar has changed more than the Explorer has yet it keeps fading. It hasn't been enough.

    Agree with tom on the Quest's 2nd row - very comfy, I like the fabric they use. They look a bit different but it's clearly designed around the passenger.

    Craig: that glare is what I see in the rearview mirror of my Miata. Granted it's very low and the top is down.

    robr2: once again I disagree with Anita. Remind me not to bother reading her reviews. And yes, she probably never actually sat in those seats just like she never drove a Legacy. ;-)

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    One downside I noticed last night in my wife's TSX -- they reflected off the truck in front of us which had a large chrome bumper, and were blinding.

    I've definitely experienced this as well. They are really bright.

    I can also see shadows of other cars when I'm behind them-- my headlights are brighter than theirs so the road outside of their car's silhouette is brighter than the places where only their headlights are shining. LOL

    ~c
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Ken- Toyota makes the Landcruiser ($50K) and Honda makes the Pilot- which probably just edges out the Odyssey (although I don't know about the new one)

    I hate looking at oncoming traffic with HIDs, especially in the rain. It's almost as bad a someone high beaming. I wonder how many accidents are caused by them each year.

    I think it's great if people use them as auxilliary lights, and turn them off when not needed. But clearly halogens are bright enough and the color spectrum isn't as blinding.

    Next thing you know they'll be putting them on lawn mowers. ;-)

    tom
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    mike: nah, by American standards you need sliding doors, not just a 3rd row.

    Those pseudo-SUVs are crossovers or maybe tall wagons.

    Pilot was probably the most expensive Honda but the new Ody may change that. Of course that may be because there isn't an Acura version above it to limit what it can cost.

    Loaded Siennas are POPULAR, in fact they carry a bigger markup over invoice than stripped Siennas do. People want them loaded, not stripped.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    oncoming HIDs don't bother me in the least unless the vehicle is unusually tall-- i.e., a luxury SUV.

    ~Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    All right I'm coming after your lights, Colin. If your HIDs get stolen it wasn't a thief. I guess technically they would have been "confiscated". ;-)

    -juice
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Do you wear sunglases at night? ;-) Oooh, eighties flashback.

    tom
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Next thing you know they'll be putting them on lawn mowers. ;-)

    Oooooo - time to mod the tractor!!
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Actually, the mini-van market had stalled at about 1 million units per year IIRC. Since the new Ody came out, it's jumped to about 1.2 million. Now it's not all Ody, but a 20% growth for a moribund segment ain't too shabby.

    In reality, the T&C and Sienna XLE (and maybe the Windstar Limited) really are not luxury mini-vans - no badge snobbery. I wonder why there isn't a Lexus version of the Sienna?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The luxury SUVs started coming out before the Ody.

    If anything, they saw how competitive the segment was and had to think twice about entering it.

    -juice
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Actually, the mini-van market had stalled at about 1 million units per year IIRC. Since the new Ody came out, it's jumped to about 1.2 million. Now it's not all Ody, but a 20% growth for a moribund segment ain't too shabby.

    IMHO that can be explained in 3 words.

    High Gas Prices.

    Real world fuel consumption for our Sienna was only slightly worse than my WRX, with the Yukon XL on a different level entirely.

    Nicholas
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    The 20% growth has been over the past 5 years. Gas prices have only really increased in the last 12 months.

    I think that the mini-van market has grown because of competitive offerings from Honda, Toyota, and Mazda. Lots of loyal buyers in those camps were straying from the pack and accepting less than stellar offerings from DC, FMC, and GM or making do with Accords and Camrys. Wouldn't Subie loyalists look at a Subaru mini-van first??
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    and help feed a poor starving Hoosier. I see lots of Siennas locally. Maybe that is because the Toyota plant that makes them TMMI is 20 miles north of where I live. Right now Susan and I are toying with the idea of a new wagon (she is interested in the Saabaru because leather, cold weather package and sunroof aren't on a WRX) and the word minivan is not in our vocabulary. After all each of our siblings have kids and they must own minivans! So until the STi minivan comes along......,
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    locke2c Sep 16, 2004 3:40pm

    They are great for picking up Bears from afar in the bushes with their reflective paint.

    -Dave
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,399
    and help feed a poor starving Hoosier.

    Hey wait...you could do the same by buying a Legacy or Outback!

    Jim
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    No kidding, Bob. I reported that 6 weeks ago (here and on the Ody board) after putting 1100 miles on a '05 T&C (rental replacement while my Ody was having it's tranny replaced). It is a neat idea, but terribly executed. Perhaps a whole 'clean sheet' platform might provide sufficient space to fit a proper adult sized seat, but not on this round. It is like a 'kiddie beach chair'. Within minutes, I began to squirm about trying to get comfy. And at 5'11", 172 lbs, I don't have an exceptional sized frame.

    Steve
  • This is for anyone who complains about Subarus not having enough towing capacity. Finally, a vehicle that will suit your towing needs (sorry if this has already been posted here or in one of the other forums):

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6026041/
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    wow it's a WTLW kinda day between this and Mr. Suzuki spotting Lucien's letter to the editor. :)

    ~c
  • Did someone already post that link, Colin? Sorry if they did. It's been awhile since I logged on to Edmunds and I only scanned back a couple of days to see if anyone already posted.

    -Ty
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    yep, we already teased Paisan about it. I think he said he'd buy one if it had an SUV body instead of a truck. LOL

    no need to apologize! ?

    ~c
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    WTLW. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    Hey, did everyone know that Subaru's coming out with a 7-passenger SUV!!!?? ;-)

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    to a MB event at FedEx field today, I saw a truckload of new Honda Odysseys. After the event, I stopped by my local Honda dealer out of curiosity, and sure enough, they had several there!

    I crawled all over a new EX. Honda did a great job with it. The 3rd-row seat, besides now splitting 60/40, folds much easier into the rear storage well. The only thing missing is AWD. This EX model was an 8-seater, with almost a 1400 lb payload. They even had a new top-of-the-line Touring model, but it was locked up, and stickered ~ $35K, but had an additional $2500 ADM tacked on. :(

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    rsholland "Town Hall Test Drive Team" Sep 17, 2004 8:03pm

    Besides juice, I ran into Hutch. Good seeing you guy! :)

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    that sounds like fun! sight unseen I'm not at all surprised which one you enjoyed driving the most. they're all boats, very nice boats mind you, except the SLK and there was no C-class present.

    ~c
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Especially true of the S-Class models. There was far more swinging of the steering wheel with the S430/S500. Not exactly the best cars for an autocross course. Even so, they did pretty well, especially considering their size and weight.

    I will say this: MB has that 4-Matic pretty well nailed down. I could barely get those cars to slide at all on the wet and sandy sections.

    Interestingly, the E320 turbo diesel has some turbo lag, but when it spools up, it really squirts. It is VERY refined for a diesel. This was the first diesel that I've driven in perhaps 20 years or more, the last being a MB 240D of the early 1980s or so. There's no comparison between the two.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    people always think I'm crazy when I say I'd buy a new C32 AMG (now discontinued) over an M3. neither of them is a Corvette; for that, you should buy a Corvette or a used 911 perhaps. But for gran touring, comfort and USABLE power, the C32 gets the nod easily.

    the Mercedes 5 speed automatic is pretty nice, eh?

    ~c
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Actually, if I'm not mistaken, the S-Class has a 7-speed automatic!

    I could actually go back again tomorrow and Sunday if I wanted to. The MB folks said it was okay to do so.

    Hmmm...

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Did anyone else hear about Pontiac giving away their new G6s on the Oprah Winfrey show? Apparently they gave away one car per audience member! ($8 million worth) It seems as an advertising gimmick it worked and their website had 8X as many hits after the show with people calling dealers asking about the 'Oprah' car.

    Wow, talk about freebies when going to these shows! I wonder what's next? Start lining up folks!

    The new G6 is supposed to be $21K- $29K. Kinda steep for a midsized Pontiac, I think. About the same price range as the legacy- more than a camry or accord- why would you want a Pontiac? It had better be nice.

    Bob, let's see, I could buy a MB S500 or 3 loaded Subies and have money left over for gas. Or 10 Hyundais! I just don't see it. I think they're nice cars and everything but I wouldn't buy one (I'm trying to talk my parents out of buying one too!). I'd be interested in driving the E320 diesel though, the last diesel I drove regularly was a 300SD turbo (ha- useless) from the early eighties. I heard the new direct rail injection makes a big difference.

    tom
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