Subaru Crew Cafe

rsholland

I'm not pushing MBs here at all. It's just not often one gets a chance to drive a multitude of MBs—especially S-Classes or an SLs, let alone thrash them on an autocross course.

Just reporting on a fun afternoon, that's all. I do enjoy driving premium brands however. They offer some very nice features not found on Subies, at least not yet. Case in point, I really like the icon-like power seat switches found on the doors of most MBs. They're very easy to use, much easier than those found on the sides of seats.

Bob

lucien2

the audience was pre-screened for folks who really needed cars...working moms in 1982 Accords and the like.

tsy

Sorry Bob, I didn't mean to sound critical. Just commenting on the cost of these new MBs. It must have been fun tossing around $100K cars and walking away! ;-)

Next time there's a Porsche drive event sign me up!

Loosh- so at least they were given away to people in need. Although some 82 accords are probably running better than some 02 gm cars! ;-)

tom

ladywclass

actually ... according to a story in the local paper ... there were ELEVEN of the people given cars who really NEEDED the cars ... and then the rest of the audience learned THEY would also be given cars .. there were 2 local women in the audience and from what I know about where they live .... they don't NEED someone to give them a car ... lol

subearu

GM/Pontiac gets free advertising (well, not free since the cars cost 'em money) and Oprah gets publicity as well. Even if Pontiac has to foot the bill for the entire audience getting their own G6, that total is probably way less than a Superbowl ad or two. Smart move on their part.

Now, the recipients have some issues though. TAXES. Ol' Uncle Sam is going to want a piece of that 'free' car they just got. What's the tax on a $26k 'prize'? $10k or so. How many people are going to be able to cough that up at tax time? So, either they get a loan for that amount or sell the car.

-Brian

locke2c

if I had $100k to spend on vehicles, I definitely would not buy 3 Subarus and would buy one Mercedes instead.

of course, I'm a former BMW M3 owner.

~c

fibber2

In a way, I guess you are right... For the price of my OBW, I could have certainly bought two Hyundai Accents, plus gas for life. But I could afford to do better, and so I did.

For those with the disposable income, they will find a way to 'dispose' of it!

I didn't truly understand the lure of a lux car until after my Uncle passed away, and I had use of his E300 4matic for 6 weeks. For a few minutes, I considered selling the Subi and buying out the Merc from the estate.

Steve

rsholland

Just checked their inventory, and it looks like all Legacys and Outbacks are now selling below invoice.

On another note, has anyone seen any Outback VDC models? They seem to be as rare as hens teeth this year. I don't recall seeing any listed on FitzMall's site, and they had around 12 pages of Outback/Legacy listings.

Bob

c_hunter

I have not yet seen an 05 VDC, but have seen all the other models on the lots. I agree that they seem very rare.

Craig

subearu

Re-reading some of the articles, it appears Pontiac will foot the bill for the taxes as well. Bravo!

-Brian

tsy

I parked next to a Ferrari 360 Modena yesterday. Nice car, $240K. But is it worth it?

Now supposing you could afford it, would you buy one Ferrari or a 911, S class, and a Subie for your "beater" car?

Perhaps the Hyundai was a bad example. If you can afford it, why would you want 10 hyundais? But we're talking some nice cars here. And most of us don't have incomes like Bill Gates.

Or to go back to the S500 example. How about a Lexus LS430 and a STi (or Evo)? ;-).

Or bag the car and buy a beachfront Condo! ;-)

Just trying to come up with some arguments to use against my wife the next time I need a car. I can't seem to justify an expensive car purchase to her. ;-)

About the Oprah-Pontiac, I'm glad Pontiac is paying the taxes. At least it shows they're trying to be responsible too!

Why are these new cars selling below invoice? That's a bad sign. I guess the Lance Armstrong advertising didn't do it. Maybe they need to give some away?

I have seen a number of these cars on the Rental lots already. Another bad sign.

tom

paisan

Interestingly we had this discussion yesterday. Across the parking lot from our shop the contractor just bought an Aston Martin, $240K, sounds like my SVX sounds and is pretty nifty, but 240k nifty, not sure.

One of our customers just sold his 911 993 AWD Turbo and STi and bought an S4 interestingly his STi was his "train/beater" car.

-mike

c_hunter

Hertz has been renting Outbacks and Foresters for years, so it's nothing new. It's an upgrade option, and they are popular out west in the ski regions. My mother in-law works at Hertz in Richmond, VA, and they rent Outbacks too. They are very popular with the staff -- the manager almost always uses one as his company car in the winter.

I don't know how GM can also pay the taxes, unless they give the people an additional cash prize to offest the overall taxes (on the car and cash combination).

Craig

subearu

yeah, I guess I'm not clear on the tax thing either. Perhaps they're only footing the state sales tax portion. I really can't see how they'd fork over an additional $10k per car 'bonus' without that getting taxed as well.

*shrug*

My guess is many won't know their pending tax fate until tax time...

-Brian

locke2c

$240k for a 360 Modena? No way. You can get into one for about $150k, and can't possibly option it beyond $185k even in Spyder (convertible) form.

Of course considering that not that many years ago the 355 started at $110k, that's still a big chunk of change for the cheapest Ferrari.

~c

jimmyp1atwork

http://www.expocarsusa.com/details.php?id=1200

Jim

locke2c

that is a dealer marking it up a ton in order to clobber someone who wants to bypass the waiting list. same thing happens for Vipers-- you will sit on the list for more than 1 year if you want one at sticker.

doesn't mean the Viper is a $100,000 car and nor is the 360 a $240,000 car.

~c

tsy

Something is worth what people are willing to pay for it. That doesn't mean it's sensible. ;-)

OK, even at $160K if you were to somehow get a hold of a 'base' model at this price, it's still quite a bit of money for a car that's going to give you a lifetime of mechanical trouble and cost fixing it.

Oh well, I guess I'll just pass on the Ferrari for now. ;-)

tom

p0926

Tom- I can't imagine any vehicle being worth over $100k much less me spending that much but then I'm not a rich (insert sport here) player making millions of dollars and looking for ways to spend it ;-)

-Frank

rsholland

Just heard on Internet radio, that for every pound you gain in weight, your body generates about 200 extra miles in capillaries! Unbelievable!

Bob

tsy

Actually if you could line up all the blood vessels in the average human body it would stretch from earth to the moon. (Supposedly, or so they taught us in med school)

tom

kens

Avis and Budget also rent out Outbacks too. I travel to Denver on business a few times a year and I always ask for a Subaru.

It's nice driving in something you're familar with, especially in snow.

Ken

njswamplands

i could see 10 lbs of fat standing around leaning on a shovel as 1 lb of carbos does all the work and put up huge signs saying i could only use 1 finger for the next 4 months during construction.

jfl

Swampy, they have actually gotten more efficient. You no longer see the guys standing around leaning on shovels. Now, you see just the barricades and absolutely nobody at the partially started construction for months. Then, they do a bit of work and are gone again for a couple of months! Of course, the barricades remain...

Jim

fibber2

rents OBW's. Had two this Spring on business trips.

Steve

fibber2

Refering to "Ultimate Oil" on PBS. They were coming down hard on Texaco for their polution of the Ecuadorian rain forests, etc. Not sure it is exactly even handed reporting (as the Ecuidor government played a role in the mess), but it is certainly one heck of an environmental disaster.

(Colin: sorry for the tongue-in-cheek title. I am sure that you have some thoughts on the validity of their reporting.)

Steve

locke2c

actually, I'm not familiar with that issue at all.

~c

ateixeira

200 miles in capillaries, but more importantly you need to use "premium" blood and it costs 20 cents more per gallon. ;-)

I too was WOWED by the Benz diesel but also notice the turbo lag. It is *dead* at first, nothing, nothing, then WHAM! It's a bullet train that just keeps pulling.

Not at all linear, though.

And the RWD diesel spun like crazy on the wet tarp, it hiccup'ed again and again and basically stuttered until it go to pavement.

4Matic fixed that quick. Plus the gas engine is more linear to no sudden turbo boost.

Still, I really like the diesel.

I'll write a review if I ever get time!

-juice

ateixeira

We talked about this in another thread, basically it is a gift from GM. They didn't win one like you win the lottery, it was gifted.

What that means is that GM is actually liable for the gift taxes, not the recipient.

A truly free car, no strings attached.

Wow.

-juice

paisan

I'd trade it in ASAP on something with RWD

-mike

ateixeira

Maybe the "catch" is it has FWD disease.

-juice

ateixeira

Posted my reviews in the Test Drive thread, can someone link that for me? I konw how to do photos and web sites but not an Edmunds thread.

Basically I liked the diesel minus the turbo lag. 4Matic helped a ton, and the SLK's steering is its biggest improvement.

-juice

locke2c

right click on the message number hyperlink, properties, copy the URL listed, paste into new message.

like this: ateixeira Sep 22, 2004 11:58am

~c

rsholland

On a motorcycle!!

Rider doesn't have license!!!

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apfeature_story.asp?catego- ry=1120&slug=205%20mph%20Ticket

Holy crap!!!!

Bob

Karen_S

Ack!

The next Evel Knieval.

rob_m

ateixeira

Let me see if this works:

locke2c Sep 22, 2004 12:21pm

-juice

ateixeira

That's so easy I feel stupid that I asked!

Linking photos is a lot tougher now that some sites require registration. Papa Bear figured a way around that, though.

-juice

locke2c

there's a long thread on nabisco OT about the 205 mph motorcycle...

no question the rider was speeding excessively but 205 is absurd.

someone pointed out a little bit of math that showed being off by less than a second with the stopwatch would reduce the calculated MPH from 205 down to 165-ish.

one news source said it was a 2004 Honda CBR 1000. that bike is power limited to about 170, and even if altered to run nitrous or a turbo, it would be rev-limited well before 205 mph on stock gears. however if you could install nitrous or a turbo, you certainly could change sprockets.

technically it's possible but I think well under 180 mph is more likely. and a bike doing 'only' 160 mph or so just wouldn't be much of a news story, eh?

~Colin

subearu

ateixeira Sep 22, 2004 1:00pm

Yep, examples of linking to imagestation are in my profile.

-Brian

kens

I couldn't even begin to comprehend what it would feel like to be hanging on a bike at speeds over 100mph.

Ken

rsholland

http://www.subiegal.com/images/rallies/wildwest2004/wild_west_int- ernational_rally.htm

ateixeira

Heck, my Miata starts feeling a bit wild with the top down above 70 or so. It's happier on twisty roads at lower speeds.

A motorcycle? Sheesh. I bet Colin's right about the speed. I don't think a hand-held stop watch is all that accurate.

-juice

locke2c

handheld stopwatches themselves are plenty accurate. it's being capable of using it with precision and accuracy that is the problem...

~c

njswamplands

bigelm

Well, suck it up because although GM paid State and Local Tax, they didn't cover individual income earnings tax....

http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/22/news/newsmakers/oprah_car_tax/ind- ex.htm?cnn=yes

"Should I keep the car, should I not... should I keep the car, should I not..."

-Still, the car is free... lol!

ateixeira

I think if he grunted like I did at 200mph, he'd have wrecked for sure. ;-)

Wild, so GM dogged them. I guess they did consider the cars "winnings" and not gifts. Minor technicality that costs them $7 grand! Ouch.

Did anyone else choke on their breakfast when they heard the G6 price? $28,500? You could get a Grand Am for mid teens, about half as much. In fact the free car isn't really that great of a deal! LOL

-juice

locke2c

that sounded like rubbish to me, so I priced one out. there's a s-load of options, some weird ones too really. anyway, yes it is possible to option a G6 GT north of $28k.

3.5L pushrod V6, woohoo. what a piece of crap.

~c
would sell it no matter the loss

ateixeira

I'm all for high tech, but I'm tellin' ya, the same 3500 engine in the Malibu would really surprise you. Torque is very good down low, it's not great at breathing at very high rpm but for your Aunt Edna the available torque is basically ideal.

Also, it's a fuel miser. EPA and mag tests confirm that.

So not a bad powertrain for the masses.

The catch? Well, the G6 is supposed to be sporty, and when you're talking $28.5 grand, and not $16 grand like a fleet Malibu would cost, well, then I'd have to agree with your summary. ;-)

It's supposed to get a 3.9l engine but that will likely also have pushrods. It deserves the nice 3.6l from the CTS.

Again, it's a good $18k car, maybe, just not $28k, not by the wildest stretch of the imagination. Lutz must be high on something. Or he built in $5000 in rebates. At least.

-juice

locke2c

the base GT is only like $22k MSRP. like I said there are tons of options!

even still for $22k, my money definitely goes elsewhere but I realize I'm not the target market.

~Colin