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Comments
The PT Cruiser and VW Beetle were hugely popular when they first debuted, not so any more. I fear the same is in store for these products.
Bob
Not much marketing (advertisements) has been done for the new Mustang GT, 300C and others and there's already a growing number of interested buyers. It's very hard to find someone who doesn't admire the 'classical' muscle car, and being able to have one with more technological advances, I would say the muscle era will be the one that breaks the mold. Now with American car companies catching up to foriegn makes in economy and value, it'll make it the more interesting.
In addition, PT Cruisers and Beetles are NOT muscle cars but just a peek of the past. Remember, your typical muscle car not only had performance but had interior space; something that's lacking in today's designs. And with the growing population of advanced body growth rates, what better time than now...
Bob
As for the PT and New Beetle - those you really can't change and keep the name. I see the PT with possible minor updating but the NB is the NB will be the NB. As long as tooling is paid for and they are making some money on it, they'll offer it.
That too...
Bob
tom
I guess time will tell. But my gut says different.
Escalades, Tahoes, Armada, etc.
People are buying them...
Yeah, but you're an old 35.
Bob <ducking and running>
Don't get me wrong I like the the new 300C and Magnum, less so about the Charger. I don't think I would ever buy one, but I do like them.
Bob
Oh I disagree with that. The 300's styling is inspired by several Chrysler concepts from the mid-50s. The Charger harkens back to the charger of the 60s-70s. I'll look for some links...
Bob
Styling cues are one thing - blantant copies of 30, 40, 50 year old designs with some modern touches are another.
http://www.toywonders.net/history/1955%20Chrysler%20Imperial/1955- - %20Chrysler%20Imperial.htm
Being a young (immature?) 59, I remember these cars well.
Bob
Bob
As for the Charger, again I don't see it. The examples you give are coupes and the new Charger is supposed to be a sedan.
Remember, I'm talking wholesale copies like the New Beetle, T-Bird and even the new Stang - not styling inspirations. I really do not believe that the current 300 will even be around in 5 years in it's current form. The market won't stand for it - it'll have to evolve like the Outback has in order to stay fresh.
My experience with a Suburban and a Sequioa is that they were too expensive to take offroad. They never saw more than snow going up to the ski slopes!
Paul- I suppose driving a CXT around would be like going to the supermarket in one of your firetrucks. BTW, how much hp and torque does your average fire engine put out?
tom
Bob
I don't think there's anything mysterious about the attraction of muscle cars. Put enough horsepower in anything and even a Pacer becomes attractive to teenage guys. (ok, maybe not a Pacer). Maybe cars like the STi and Evo will be the collectors items when today's youths become old and successful.
Unfortunately, growing up in the 70's there was a dearth of low cost high power cars. My dream cars of memory were Ferrari's, Porshe's, and Lamborghini's, which I could not afford then and still can't!!!! ;-)
Maybe I could borrow someone else's dream?
tom
Boom - boxy sedan that looks butch and muscular, that should appeal to someone coming from a Durango. At least it won't look wimpy to them.
I think it's a fad. What's next? I don't know. I think Chrysler hopes muscle sedans are, LOL.
The Hemi's DoD feature is a big selling point, fuel efficiency matches the 2.5T but it runs on regular, so here is a full size sedan with a V8 that will cost you *less* in gas than a Subie turbo.
Trade-in Guarantee: actually they offered us this on our 2002 Legacy L. But what is the value based on? NADA wholesale?
So they guarantee a low ball...wow.
-juice
Same reason my daughters think it's cool they're selling Cabbage Patch dolls again ...
Bob
If they can keep the prices down on them, they represent a great value for the average consumer who wants a back-to-basics RWD sedan or wagon. With the technology already amortized (legacy E-class chassis) they cost of production is reduced enough that they can continue to offer them as "newer" E-classes come down the pipe.
-mike
Reminds me of a '60s-era Ferrari.
Bob
Great name!
Appalachian Blue Ridge and Northern Virginia Outlaw Racing Mower League = ABNORML
So they can't spell... waddya expect, they're from the boonies.
Bob
a couple weeks ago, he and the ex made a 6 hour round trip car ride together with one son who will have surgery in a few months (that will come in later posts), but on the trip he commented on several 300's they saw on the road ... she proclaimed them 'dull and boring' and he thought .. yeah, there's one of the reasons we're not married anymore ....
Bob
-mike
-mike
Bob
Bob
It's also available with a 6-speed manual over there.
Bob
I have no idea what the original discussion AJ is referring to said, but I can attempt to answer this question.
the 2005 Legacy GT handles better than a non-sport package 3 series, and some of that is definitely the AWD sure-footedness. it doesn't handle as well as a sport package 3 series, with a caveat: they usually come with summer tires. those help enormously (RE92 complaint #41387 on subaru forums I'm sure). tires aside, the sport package 3er is just slightly more performance vs. comfort bias than a legacy GT.
I've never driven a 330 performance pack btw. I think they're stupid since they still don't get the badly needed LSD.
also, I know I've complained about the BMW stability management enough but it is part of the equation for sure: drive hard enough to find the differences from the Legacy and you'll probably find DSC smacking you around, too.
the legacy GT doesn't handle anywhere in the league of my old '95 M3 and it's not just body roll. bone stock E36 M3s have a decent bit of bodyroll due to soft springs, although they don't have near the suspension travel of a subaru.
~c
Is this your opinion or can you cite a review? IMO no Legacy can come close to any BMW with handling. Curiously there's a Legacy print ad in which they claim it handles better than the 530i. Would like to know what they base this on.
Still, replace the SLR's hideous nose with equally exaggerated cats-eye lamps and it doesn't do anything for me.
CR-V diesel sure would bypass the whole engine fire issue. But I guess that is the proper way to burn oil!
Low blow, sorry.
Fabio: my wife and I test drove a 325i with an automatic a year or two ago, the year after the steering went soft and they recalibrated. She found the steering heavy, which is why I remember the year.
Still, that car felt grossly overpriced, at $32k with vinyl seats. The HVAC was loud and struggled to cool the interior. Accleration was leisurly with the auto, and the back seat felt cramped. Handling might have been the sole stand-out feature, and even then it had lost the magical steering feel I'd rememebered from earlier Bimmers.
I suspect most Bimmers are high-end ones, $38k or more, 330i with sport suspension, etc. That's a different story. It's also a different price range.
But my wife got back in her Legacy (not even a GT) and had no regrets about not buying a Bimmer, in fact she left with the impression that they were over-rated.
-juice
it's my opinion having driven them. everything in that last post is my opinion. I see by your profile that you drive a 2003 530, so that explains why you're asking this question.
I haven't driven an E39 530, but earlier this year before I bought my Evo drove two different E39 540 six speeds, both with sport package. they handled nicely but you can feel the weight.
have you driven a manual 2005 Legacy GT? if so what's your opinion?
~Colin
CR complains that Subies fishtail, are you kidding? That's the funnest part of Subies! LOL
But yes, "handling" means different things to me vs. my wife. She wants something that can handle speed bumps without slowing down, jump a curb with no damage, or hit a pothole and not spill her drink.
I will happily slow down for said speed bump in my Miata to get the payoff in the twisties.
-juice
Yeah, once you get used to driving Subies, 5-series seem heavy, especially the 540 but nothing beats them as highway cruisers. They’re locked to the road and incredibly confident at high speed. Never forget the Autobahn and which country it is in. I always thought the H6 Outback felt too heavy. The 2.5 is nimble and light on it’s feet. I feel the same way about the Toyota and Honda 4 cyl vs 6cyl. Don’t like the sixes. I always go for handling over power although the ultimate cars have a great balance of both. Straight line zooming isn’t for me. Curves are where all the fun and skill is... stop, go, turn. This is why I’m longing for the right AT for the WRX.
Will be driving a lot more Subies soon because I’d like to nail this down before the winter. Wish I could take each one for a full day.
Tincup47 you’re right about reviews being someone’s opinions. And in my opinion some of these reviewers are more writer than they are driver. I’ve always said the buyer is the ultimate reviewer. But there’s good and bad info going around. You have to dig and sift through it, then use your intuition to decide. In the case of Subaru claiming the Legacy handles better than the 530i, well, I’d like to know where this comes from, a test, an opinion of a luminary, or is it the wishful thinking of marketers? Or maybe they mean the Legacy handles better than the 530 in snow? Well, that’s the only thing I’ll agree with.
So yeah, make sure to form your own opinions!
-juice