Subaru Crew Cafe

bluesubie

... And I haven't seen it.
SoA should consult the Edmunds Crew for focus group input.

-Dennis

miksmi

I recall the Washington Post's tag line is something like "If you don't get it, you don't get it." It works well, better on spoken (radio) than printed. If you don't subscribe to the Post, you won't be in the know. "When you get it, you get it." is a reworded, briefer form of the Post's slogan. I think "When you get it, you get it" will work for the same reason the Post's tag line works. I believe this advertising approach is called "fear of loss". I don't have a Subaru, so I must not get it (am I stupid?). Well, I'm a smart guy/gal, I get it, and so I better buy a Subaru.

Now, the slogan implementation is another story. I haven't seen the commercial so I can't comment.

Bob, what's your opinion?

..Mike

locke2c

Dennis,

we could be a very specific focus group but definitely can't represent the market at large.

by definition the Crew is a loyal and interested group. then again if we're not impressed i'm not sure that's a good sign for potential consumers who aren't friendly to the brand.

-Colin

bluesubie

Yeah, I guess we're a little more hardcore than your "average" consumer. :-)

A few years ago, I got paid $75 cash by NJ Transit for my comments for a new Light Rail.

-Dennis

storyteller

Now that Edmunds has rearranged itself, I'm reading boards I never saw before. In one of the Subie-related ones a guy described us here as "cult" members. He actually was pretty flattering as he developed that description, but we are hardly the audience Subaru is trying to hit with its ads.

Steve (fellow cultist)

paisan

40K on the rear brakes and they have bit the dust I guess 40K isn't bad though considering.

Ordered OEM pads for $100 + $12 overnight shipping which isn't too bad I suppose.

Hopefully the one rotor that was down to metal on metal will be able to be turned.

-mike

locke2c

rotors are always metal. you mean you let the pad get to the metal backing? if so, the rotor is almost certainly a throw-away, even if they can true it the result should be thinner than the service limit.

-Colin

paisan

It went to metal on metal no more pad material left

Funny thing is that it just happened on saturday and didn't notice it til I was about 10 miles from home and late for an event and wound up putting on like 100 miles

I'm hoping that the rotors are thick enough that they can cut it for me. If not it's ~$150 for a rear rotor.

-mike

ateixeira

Good point about the Post's slogan, Mike. BTW, I do get the Post, if only on Sundays.

40k "paisan miles" = 100k "juice miles"

So that's pretty good. Hope the rotors are OK.

-juice

rsholland

Excellent point. I agree with you 100%.

Bob

paisan

Is excellent as far as milage. Between slowing down 5500lbs from 115 and towing on a semi-regular basis, it's not that bad at all.

-mike

paisan

Colin is dead on the money. The rotor was a toss away. But on the bright side got 2 new rear rotors from R&S for $40/each instead of $199/each from the dealer. OEM pads are en-route so total cost for rear pads and rotors will be $115.

-mike

ateixeira

$40 rotors? That's cheap. Most local brake shops charge $70 per axle just for pads.

I guess they wore quickly, but I check the brakes at every tire rotation. Still, that may not be frequent enough - we should check it more often.

-juice

paisan

That isn't installed though. But I was pleasantly suprised to see they were $40. So I bought one for each side to keep em even.

-mike

ateixeira

Yep, and keep the good one as a spare.

-juice

rsholland

if it's (AWD) good enough for Subaru, it must be good enough for Bentley too...

Bob

http://industryclick.com/microsites/index.asp?srid=10250&magazineid=1004&siteid=26

locke2c

hey mike,

what's your opinion on a 94-98ish Rodeo? any problem areas to look out for? what do you think about it relative to the competition? (blazer, explorer, cherokee, 4runner, pathfinder)

my wife is considering one to replace her miata. the idea would be to get something bigger, useful, reliable and relatively inexpensive, say under $12k. we figure we can get $15-16k for the miata.

if you have a whole bunch to say drop me an email or two to the address in my profile. if it's not too horribly long fire away here in the Cafe.

thanks.

-Colin

idahodoug

Just noticed the thread, so I'm a bit late on this, but a rotor with a groove in it from the backing plate is still perfectly usable and there's really no reason to turn a scored or grooved rotor. The new pad will simply wear into the same shape.

Obviously if the groove is deep enough to impact structural integrity, that's a different matter.

BTW, is this Paisan from the TrailTalk Forum?? If so, small world.

IdahoDoug

paisan

Yep I'm on the 4x4wire as well.

Apparently they couldn't turn the rotor, it was pretty badly scored but all is good now I still was amazed that the replacement rotors were $40/each and even from a discount dealer on the web the OEM one was $175/each!

-mike

paisan

Well here is my take...

I had a 97 rodeo it was flawless for 120K miles til I got my Trooper! Only thing I didn't like about it was the door seals weren't the best, you could tell when you were doing 65mph by the wind noise. If I was keeping it any longer I would have added some more gasket material around the door seals. The 97 has a SOHC 3.2l rated at 190hp and weighs in around 3500lbs for the 4x4. It's a no-nonsense truck in that there isn't a CD player, tinted windows, AWD, it has rear leaf springs and rear ABS only. I used to get over 20mpg on the highway even with my lead foot so that is a positive and towed 5000lbs with ease.

The 98 is notorious for having poorly balanced rims causing vibrations at highway speeds. It did get a nice 205hp DOHC engine and rear coil springs. They just instituted a recall on the ABS ECU on 98 and 99 due to over-active WRX-like symptoms of the ABS system to convert it over to the 00/01 ABS computer.

Personally? I'd get a '97. In fact I loved my 97 so much I may try to buy another one someday cause it really was an excellent truck, and as usual since it was the last year for the design they had worked out all the bugs in it.

-mike

bluesubie

My wife leased a 95 Rodeo for 4 years. The only problems she ran into were a dead battery and a rear hatch latch that needed adjusting. She loved the room and the off-roadability (driving on the beach).

The biggest downfall is part-time 4WD. After a couple of scary spin-outs in the rain, she was convinced that AWD was the way to go.

-Dennis

ateixeira

My buddy had one, and the only major repair was the clutch at an early-ish 36k miles.

-juice

kate5000

why not to get her a brand new Forester L? It may look smaller than Rodeo but boy it can fit an elefant (I've tried :-)
I've had a very bad experience with used cars (maybe just a bad luck), so I'm all for new ones. On 2002 L model, you can also get a very good price and 1.9% financing. Forester's advantage will be AWD vs part-time 4WD, and much better handling and gas mileage.

locke2c

kate,

sorry... no new anything, it's just not in the budget. $10k-12k for a lower mileage, good condition SUV is the target.

I have bought numerous used vehicles and had fine luck with them but there are a few tricks. having good mechanical knowledge yourself helps spot problems before you buy and keep things running well after, and I always get a pre-purchase inspection done at a dealer (or in cases of very old vehicles, a trusted independent).

we will look at used foresters though, assuming we can find them.

-Colin

paisan

I'm pretty skeptical on used vehicles myself, but in the case of the Rodeo I abused my 97 sooooooo much and only did oil changes and tire replacement and brake pads over 120K miles, that is why I bought the Trooper cause I knew it could take the abuse. Other used ones I'd look at:

Montero
Trooper (used '98s with TOD can be had for around $14K)
Pathfinder
4-runner (hard to find em cheap though)

All very long lasting tough vehicles.

-mike

ateixeira

A used '98 Forester L costs about $11,500 (private sale price) depending on the mileage, FWIW. Some are still under warranty, too. Car Max sells them for $14-15k or so.

The advantage there would be your familiarity with the powertrain, plus the warranty.

-juice

locke2c

right, but my familiarity with the powertrain tells me that all things being equal I don't want a 2.5L DOHC.

the forester definitely handles better, more car-like than a rodeo but is smaller in every way.

availability is the biggest problem though-- autotrader found 4 foresters less than $12,000 within 200 miles, obviously there were page upon page of rodeos in that criteria.

-Colin

lilbluewgn02

Hope all you dads had a great Fathers' Day. Here is the card Michael made me...

Front, with Mclaren 8B of Denny Hulme



inside with Ferrari 330 P4

barresa62

And it sounds like the feeling may be mutual...Michael is the best son in the world! I hope you had a great Father's Day. By the looks of the card it seems you did! :-)

Stephen

lilbluewgn02

Susan and I had a Bar-Mitzvah to go to...Mikey was home with the dog. We'll go out sometime this week for dinner

PS..for Mother's day he made one with Pluto on it. I'll have to scan that one.

rsholland

to introduce a 230 HP, 2.3L turbo, AWD, Mazda 6!

Bob

http://www.apexjapan.com/

ateixeira

I was about to scream about torque steer, but then I read AWD.

My wife's 626 had a nice V6 engine, but it had torque steer like mad and felt very front-heavy. It also pushed like an insurance salesman. So you can drive her Legacy faster even though the power/weight ratio isn't nearly as strong.

Hopefully AWD will sort it out. The styling is fantastic. The wagon even has a neat push-button feature that folds the rear seats flat. Best of all, it looks like they didn't cut costs nearly as badly as Nissan has lately.

-juice

bluesubie

From the story:
"..the question on our minds is whether they will go Impreza STi/Lancer Evo hunting or a Subaru Legacy B4/Audi S4 route.."

Well with only 230 h.p. it could only go up against a standard U.S. or U.K. WRX.
An STi, Evo, and B4 will all smoke it. :-)

-Dennis

paisan

Isn't the Mazda 6 more legacy sized than WRX sized?

-mike

rsholland

on the showroom floor. Every Mazda sold, is one less Subaru sold.

No word as to whether it will come to North America, however.

Bob

paisan

What kind of AWD system will it get? the 100/0 like the crv or more like the VTD system?

-mike

ateixeira

Mazda is a bit on the fringe, not quite mainstream like Honda and Toyota. They'll have two wagons (P5 and this) and with AWD they would definitely get cross-shopped with Subies.

paisan asks a good question - what type of AWD will they offer? The Tribute uses a part-time RBC for light-duty, so that wouldn't really cure the torque steer. In fact I bet that's what it'll get, since it's going to share engine blocks.

-juice

rsholland

that I decided to cut out early and took a drive out towards western Maryland. I stopped by the Subaru dealer in Hagerstown, and had an interesting chat with a long-time Subie salesman there. A guy, who met Patti some time ago, BTW, and spoke highly of her too.

In any event, a couple of interesting tidbits:

• He mentioned that VDC models prior to the '02 model, those without the VDC cut-off switch, could—if the VDC control module goes bad— stop the car in its tracks, making it unable to drive! The new model, with the on-off VDC switch is not subject to that problem, thank god.

• Also, he recently had a chance to drive a new '03 Legacy GT and an '02 Legacy GT back-to-back, and said that the '03 model handles better. He said there was a very noticeable difference between the two. Remember the up-dated Japanese Legacys got some suspension upgrades? I bet our '03 Legacy got those same upgrades.

Bob

locke2c

I remember that the Japanese market Legacy B4 RSK got some suspension tuning courtesy of Porsche's engineering arm, but I doubt that made it to our Legacy GT.

Was there some other upgrade?

-Colin

rsholland

Yeah, the whole Japanese Legacy lineup got revised suspensions. Same with the recently upgraded Aussie models. I don't know the specifics, however.

Bob

ateixeira

Interesting about the VDC, but noone in that thread reported being stranded.

Subaru does minor tuning revisions, I'm surprised he could feel a difference. On the Forester, for example, they revised the suspension in 2001 to reduce dive and squat, and in 2003 they revised it yet again, for the same purpose.

I bet they made the sways 2mm thicker, something like that.

-juice

rsholland

I was under the impression that the changes were more substantial than just thickening the sway bars. I think it even included revised mounting points of suspension components, but I'm not sure.

I was looking for the links that stated the upgrades on both Aussie and Japanese (and probably New Zealand models too), but I couldn't find them. Anybody remember for sure?

Bob

rsholland

http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=38243&dm=yes

barresa62

Found this is today's issue of USAtoday. Interesting that the State of WA has dropped its support of this particular study because it doesn't take into account metered on-ramp lights or HOV lanes. The study admits to changing how it reflects data in the future.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/06/20/traffic.htm

Stephen

ateixeira

Not much, Bob, and nothing to us. I bet Subaru will simply sell rebadged models in their dealerships in some Asian markets.

DC is 4th worst, we used to be 2nd. We can do better! ;-)

BTW, test drove a 2002 Miata yesterday. I was surprised that I didn't like it more. I was a base model, 5 speed, cloth. Smoother ride despite 15" rims (mine are 14"), more quiet, refined, but you know what? That doesn't matter to me in a roadster.

I like the styling less than mine. The trunk seems to have a blister on top, and the cat's eye headlights don't do anything for me. I drive mostly in day light so the barn doors (pop ups) don't bother me, and the styling is cleaner.

Improvements? A bit more torque, but it felt heavier and that negated most of the extra foot-pounds. Spare and battery are better placed in trunk. Top goes down easier, and glass back window is nice.

Dislikes? Glass window is smaller. Feels heavy. No more leg room. Seats felt lumpy.

I could not push the handling much with an 8-month pregnant wife beside me, but it felt as good or better.

But I got back in my '93, and honestly? Didn't miss the 2002 at all, in fact I seem to "fit" better in mine. So I'll keep it. :-)

-juice

p0926

Bob- Yuck! It's bad enough being associated with GM. Now they want to add Daewoo?

-Frank P.

Karen_S

kate5000

although we can came in only 2nd worst (after LAlaland), we beat LA -- and everyone else for that matter -- on real estate prices.

Today the overturned truck spilled nitric acid (it's HNO3, right?) on I-880, and HazMat closed the freeway. It was commute from hell today, really.

Still want to move here, anyone?

ateixeira

Maybe if I didn't have to work "normal" hours. The West Coast is gorgeous.

-juice

kens

Well, I noticed that San Jose is listed as 8th so no other metropolitan area has TWO cities in the top ten other than the Bay Area.

Yeah, that nitric acid spill caused a huge mess today. Yesterday, the Bay Bridge was almost shut down because of a truck overturn. I'm glad I commute down the Penninsula!

So, what's "normal" juice?

Ken