Subaru Crew Cafe

rsholland

Blat!

Bob

http://www.apexjapan.com/

kate5000

How's house hunting if you don't mind me asking? Rates are good but prices shut up again, from what I hear...

rsholland

Sounds very promising, albeit rather expensive.

Bob

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/65358/article.html

kens

Kate,

No, I don't mind at all (suprised you still remember!) and yes it's still on going. My wife and I looked at a place in San Mateo a few weeks ago and loved the area, but decided not to go any further due to the uncertain condition of the home.

House prices did spike in Jan/Feb but seem to be leveling off a bit. I spoke to a friend who's a new home developer and he feels that we'll see more relaxing of prices in the next 6 months. Basically, increase in Bay Area home prices still outpace the growth in income. Given that the recovery is veeeery slow, it's got to come back down a bit.

We're not in any big rush so we're only looking at the ones that really interest us. Also, the summer typically is a slow period so we're kicking back. I hope to have something by year end, though.

Ken

hammersley

My sister has apparently had enough of the Bay Area rat race - bought a house last week, going to keep it rented for a year, then move up here in time for the '03-04 school year. Then we'll see about getting her to trade her ML320 for a Subaru!

Cheers!
Paul

ateixeira

My Passat wagon owning buddy just bought an ML320 for his wife. Odd thing was he was a radical Acura fan a while back.

Wonder if he would have bought a Toureg.

-juice

ateixeira

I thought the Blackwood was dead a while ago. Sales were dismal, what a flop.

Lesson? You need UTILITY, especially in the luxury class. 2WD only? Closed "trunk" with no midgate? Least-in-class power?

Some surprise.

Haven't gotten the print AN lately, not sure why. Will Honda use the Element?

-juice

paisan

Maybe honda will do the D-max rebadge?

-mike

ateixeira

If they did a big pickup, that would make sense. They have nothing in their parts bin that can twist with 520 ft-lbs of force.

-juice

paisan

I mean the D-max pickup which will be mid-size due out this coming year. They could re-badge that as a honda, although then it would be GM-Honda-Isuzu all sharing the same platform.

-mike

ateixeira

Oh, so it's a whole line of engines, then?

-juice

paisan

D-max is the New Pickup, not the engines. Duramax is the engines. D-max is the name of the pickup

Isuzu D-max
Chevy Colorado
GMC ????

Replacing the S-10

-mike

ateixeira

I thought you were abbreviating, now I get it.

GMC is fighting hard to get those, and they'll win, just wait.

-juice

rsholland

Honda says no to V8 and RWD.
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=39783<

Honda to offer Sport-Trac like truck, and will not be based on the Pilot platform.
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=39784<

No surprise here: The Lincoln Blackwood will become the Lincoln Deadwood as of August.
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=39785<

Bob

paisan

Is getting them. It will replace the Sonoma. Just not sure of the name or if they'll keep the Sonoma name.

-mike

rsholland

Not on my watch! I think Honda learned its lesson regarding badge-engineering.

Bob

ateixeira

I don't know if I'd agree with that. Honda, the manufacturer may think so, but ask a Honda dealer if he'd have given up the Passport without a fight.

No way. They needed something to fill that void in the lineup, otherwise they simply would have lost customers. Customers that switch brands and may never come back.

But yes, just get a Rodeo, was my thinking. Longer warranty, lower price. Pretty simple.

-juice

rsholland

couldn't give away the badge-engineered Isuzus. Not because they were bad vehicles, but because they weren't HONDAS. Now they've got in-house, home-grown SUVs, with customers lining up around the block for, and many paying way over MSRP for.

By the time Honda debuts a pickup, it will be a home-grown, in-house design.

Bob

paisan

They aren't trucks. They are great expanded mini-vans or SAV (Sports activity vehicles) for families. If they want a pickup/truck with a bed, they are gonna need to look outside the honda world. Have they even built a truck with a frame ever?

-mike

rsholland

isn't a (traditional) "truck" either. I'm sure the Honda will also not be a traditional truck.

Mike, I will bet you a "Philly Cheese Steak Sub," from that place in Philly we went to, that the Honda pickup won't be a rebadged Isuzu!

Bob

paisan

Well can we expand that to include the GM siblings? I'll take that bet even though it's probably a losing one!

I agree they may do something small like a baja, but anything that is bigger will need a frame etc. and I see them getting a large portion of the parts from one of the big 3.

-mike

rsholland

I say it will be a home-grown Honda product. They may build it off the Element platform, or the next-generation Odyessy. Who knows, but I bet they won't go outside.

Bob

ateixeira

Bob: yes, but a key point - I bet a LOT of those people in line bought a Passport while they were waiting.

In other words, they did not buy a 4Runner, and are not buying a Sequoia now. Once they sample another brand (Toyota), they may not come back.

Is that steak "wit" onions?

-juice

rsholland

My treat if I lose...

Bob

paisan

I need to revive the thread with the towing capacities for the Baja, since it's not officially out yet we can still see who's closest to the proposed #s.

-mike

ateixeira

I say unchanged, 1000/2000.

Though I was wrong about the Forester. Who said 2400 (for the manual)?

-juice

rsholland

is making me hungry. What was the name of that (world-famous-but-I-forgot-the-name) place in Philly where we got those cheese steaks subs?

Bob

paisan

I think we went to Pat's.

-mike

rsholland

I wonder how many heart attacks that place is responsible for!?

Bob

ateixeira

All of them. ;-)

Just read the Touareg review. Those are some low profile tires. My main concern? It seems like they are aiming for both off-road and sporty, luxury and practical. It's a box full of oxymorons.

I wonder how it'll turn out. Though it's out of my price range.

I'll give 'em this - they do offer something for everyone. Lockers and 6 piston brake calipers? Low range and a 12 cylinder?

I still say Piech has lost his mind. Audi will suffer most.

-juice

rsholland

Yeah, of all the new SUVs, that's the one I'm most interested in, not that I could ever afford one. But it's got all the (functional) bells and whistles that I've been waiting for.

I'll be real interested in how it shakes out. I look forward to seeing it compared with all the established SUVs, both on and off the road.

Bob

rsholland

If I'm known here for being terminally anal about towing, juice will be known for: "I still say Piech has lost his mind."



Bob

paisan

be very careful when they use "lockers" in marketing. The Envoy/Trailblazer has "lockers" but they are not really lockers at all, just LSD units set to an early lockup rate. Currently the only vehicles sold with true lockers from the factory are the G-wagen.

-mike

bluesubie

The 3 day spell of food-poisoning was unbearable! :-(

-Dennis

fibber2

To get a better idea of the impact of the Passport, I checked sales figures on Autosite's web page. In summary, Honda sold a little over 5000 Passports last year, compared to Rodeo sales of some 22,000 (or about 22%). By comparison, Honda sold 35,000 CRVs, and 15,000 Acura MDXs. So badge engineering did not net them much benefit in terms of customer retention.

When you factor in the incredible cost of parts stocking and technician training for handling a non-branded product, the situation was probably downright draining on them.

Another intangible is the increased level of customer dissatisfaction. Badge engineered vehicle owners often suffer increased service frustration (parts availability, misdiagnosis due to unfamiliarity), and associate it more with where they bought it rather than who actually made it.

Steve

rsholland

not only that, but I've heard from numerous sources, including Honda mechanics, that the Isuzu-sourced Hondas/Acura were more trouble-prone than "real" Hondas/Acuras, thus putting a somewhat of a dent in Honda's image.

That's not to say they were "bad" vehicles, because they weren't. They just weren't as trouble-free as in-house engineered Hondas.

I would be really surprised if Honda ever goes that route again.

Bob

locke2c

I think the profitability just isn't there for the Passport compared to Honda-developed vehicles.

Thus Honda wastes no time or effort on it. The idea was originally a good one though, considering the Rodeo was the #1 selling import SUV throughout the 90s.

Until statistically proven otherwise, I suspect reliability claims are overblown. It is very possible that Honda technicians aren't as good at fixing and supporting Passports compared to "their own", this happens often with "badge engineered products". Hint: if you own a Dodge Stealth turbo, bring it to a Mitsubishi dealer.

-Colin

paisan

I dunno but the 98 Troopers AKA SLX was #2 right behind 4-runner in it's class for reliability in both JD Powers and Consumer Reports. It doesn't get much more reliable than that. '98 Passports/Rodeos had problems cause they were new vehicles. The biggest problem was poorly balanced tires.

-mike

rsholland

Even if that's the case, it doesn't bode particularly well for Isuzu-Honda owners, especially for warranty issues.

All I can say is what I've read and heard. I've spoken to several local Honda dealers, and both the sales staff and mechanics have commented (off the record, of course) that their experience with Isuzu-sourced Hondas is that they were more problematic than other Hondas. I have no statistics to back that up, however.

Bob

paisan

No offense bob, but you were probably talking to die hard honda lovers, so of course any non Honda product will be less reliable in their eyes. Stats show the 92-97 Rodeo and the 99->02 Rode and the 92->02 Troopers are probably one of the top 5 reliable SUVs in their respective classes.

-mike

lark6

"No offense bob, but you were probably talking to die hard honda lovers"...as opposed to die-hard Isuzu lovers?

Sorry, paisan, you set yourself up for that one. ;-)

Ed

rsholland

a topic of intense interest on my part, so I never followed up on it in terms of seeking out statistics, one way or the other.

Bob

paisan

as soon as I hit "Post" that thought crossed my mind

-mike

rsholland

http://www.auto.com/industry/may25_20020625.htm

cb70

http://www.mazda.com/publicity/public/200206/0620e.html

paisan

is a big small IMHO
but otherwise looks good.

-mike

fibber2

and it was a major headache. In '87, Corollas were still selling at a premium, so I went to my local Chevy dealer and bought a Nova. Both made at the NUMMI plant, but the Nova was clearly the orphan of the two. Big mistake. At the time, the service dept stocked nothing for the Toyota or Suzuki products they sold, had little in the way of diagnostic equipment, or training. No wonder customer sat fell to incredible lows, and resale went with it.

Same goes with same make imports. I also bought a new Ford Fiesta in '79. They stopped importing them in '81, but even when they sold the car, they had no support. Mercoure (?) owners (XR4 and Sierra ??) owners fared no better. Capri has come and gone twice (Germany, then Australia).

OK, I will get off of my soap box now..... But I learned a valuable lession (too bad I had to do it twice).

Steve

ateixeira

I guess the term "lockers" is slang. I think of them as zero slip, an axle where both ends spin at the exact same speed no matter what. No Subie fits this definition.

Bob: Piech's down fall will be the first recession. VW's fixed costs are high.

Passport sales are low now, but what about 3-5 years ago? Also, the Pilot is based on the Odyssey, and those trannies are weak. They break often, and cost $2-6 grand to fix.

Honda agrees, mandating a tranny cooler for any towing at all. A power steering cooler, too. What's up with that?

My point is, don't just assume a Honda product is better. The Trooper is much, much more reliable than the Odyssey, like night and day. paisan actually refers to the JD Power 5 year durability study, which indeed the Trooper aced. I seriously doubt the trouble-prone first year Ody minivan would ever make that list.

Honda's own products may be better for the non-off roading target audience, and no doubt will sell better. But we should assume reliability will be only average, i.e. what the Ody does. Heck, with VTM and the extra complexities it brings you might even assume it'll do slightly worse than average.

-juice

kate5000

let's just all agree that Trooper is the absolutely best vehicle ever made, and clearly had a divine intevention in both the design and production stage, yes, mike? :-) :-)

Too bad CR irreversebly damaged the T's rep.

rsholland

reporting what I've heard from folks who actually work on these things...

Bob