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Comments
I guess I'd ask, if you were in the market for a RWD sports coupe under $30k, what other car offers better performance for the price?
WRX owns the 25k price point, and offers 4 doors and a wagon model. Great for me. But, for those looking for a sporty 2 door, I can't think of something I'd recommend above the Z at this price point.
I also think the S2000 stacks up well because the Z's poor cargo capacity and the S2000's much lower curb weight should produce far better handling. It doesn't have a torquey v6, but you can say the same about the 350Z not having the Mustang's torquey v8. ;-)
-Colin
Colin_ I know you've been posting about the new Nissan 350Z, well, this car is the cover story in both rags. C&D did an actual road test. I haven't read it yet, but the headline stated: 0-60 in 5.4 sec, and under $27K.
Ed_ AutoWeek has a better picture of the rear cargo area of the new GMC XUV/Wagonaire. It appears to be a brilliant idea; much better, IMO, than that of the Avalanche. So far, this is the only LWB version of this platform that I like—except for the estimated price of around $40K! Yikes!!
Bob
Reportedly this car would be targeted at the Maybach, Rolls, etc. There's a good chance that a concept version will show up at the Detroit auto Show this year. I guess, the reaction to the concept, will determine as to whether Cadillac will proceed with the project.
Back in the 1930s, Caddy offered a V-16, so there is historic precedent for such a car.
Bob
The G35 coupe is better sorted, and better looking. There's your competitor, even from the same manufacturer.
But I'd also look at a 325is, stripped. If you allow sedans a whole bunch of options pop up.
But C&D's model was $34k, hardly $27k. And that includes several key performance upgrades, like wheels and tires, brakes, etc. Get a base model and the numbers won't look as good.
Bob: the new Accord puts an Altima nose with a Mercedes rear. Can't blame them, though.
-juice
No.
We drove a 325i sedan on Wednesday night. It stickered for $32k, with vinyl seats. Ouch. It had metallic paint and a moonroof, and a couple of other little things.
She drove. I'd sampled a 330i at the BMW Ultimate Driving Event, so this wasn't gonna tell me anything I didn't know.
As a passenger, then, I noticed materials are nice, but still some hard plastics mixed in. The interior feels a bit cold, the wood in this one was dark. Too many buttons the same size. Vinyl sun visors? They look like the ones in the Forester. The A-pillars are covered in fabric, and the carpets are plush wool.
This one had the extra-cost armrest extension, and that blocked one of the two small cup holders, duh. Foot room was actually great, I wonder if they improved on this recently. But there is less knee and elbow room than in her Legacy, which we drove back-to-back. The back seat was an afterthought, clearly smaller than hers. Much less width, too.
The climate control just didn't cut it. We set it to 65 and put the fan on full blast, and it sounded like the soundtrack from the movie Twister. Seriously loud fans. Kind of odd. We could not use more than the 4th setting of maybe 10 or so. It also did not cool sufficiently, though it was 99 degrees and humid. Still, her Legacy left icicles on my nose immediately after the test drive, with quieter fans.
So, on to the drive. The wife struggles with the steering. Too heavy (for her, I love it). I ask if the feel is good, she's wrestling with it and can't be bothered to tell.
The auto was smooth, shifts nicely. But the engine? I dunno, it's adequate but not fast. This is an auto with 184hp, so I may have remembered that 330 I test drove closely, and this seemed slow in comparison.
So she got back in her Legacy, with no regrets. Sure, it ain't a Bimmer, but it was hard for us to see where that extra $14 grand went. And it wasn't even a wagon, nor did it have the sport package.
-juice
-Colin
Steve
Bob
http://forums.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209027
Stephen
I'm curious as to why a Pleo was entered in the PP Hillclimb? Subie Gal mentioned it was a private owner, but SOA got involved in terms of getting her the ride. I wonder if they're considering offering a Pleo-type car here in the USA for sale, sometime in the future? If so, it would have to have more than a 660cc engine, supercharged or not...
Bob
Bob
http://auto.ascii24.com/auto24/issue/2001/1018/66nsh_kt1018_16.html
BTW, there's an excellent image of the new redesigned "oval/star" grille logo, the new Forester uses, also here on the grille of the HM-01 concept.
Bob
I know there's a lot to be said for having a bottom-feeder in the lineup, but they sell so few, I wonder if it's really worth it? I would think an RS wagon would have much more appeal in the marketplace. Just my $.02.
Bob
the RS features would appeal to some but I think they need something priced like the TS.
-Colin
Perhaps they could add a RS wagon, and keep the TS too?
Bob
Bob
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_maybach_bows_new/index.htm
There have to be at least two issues here. One involves the image of the badge, and that seems to be what you were addressing. You'd like to see Honda offering a range of levels of cars, but all under the Honda name. But are there not specific advantages in dealership networks that become possible when you create a new badge? Or is it self-defeating to have Honda dealerships competing with Acura dealerships?
Steve (I'm rummaging around under the sofa cushions for enough change to reserve MY Maybach)
-mike
I like the HM-01 much more than the Pleo, too. It's modern and quirky, like a Subie should be. The Pleo just looks like a Honda concept made for the Tokyo show, or even a Scion model.
Lexus is an unqualified success. I think they're the benchmark. Infiniti has struggled, and Acura is hardly even competing.
-juice
PS Bob - next to that BMW dealer in Rockville was a used car dealer with Mini Coopers on the lot. $25,900 for slightly used samples, and they were not the S models!
Is Acura that bad off? Infiniti I can agree on, but I see Acura's, especially CL and TL. MDX's are out and about south of the WI border.
-Brian
• Unlike Lexus, all "Acuras" are sold outside North America as Hondas. My feeling is if you are not consistent with your "world-wide" marketing, it seems (to me) a bit phoney.
• By having a premium brand, like Acura, that puts a ceiling on just how high Honda can reach. Hondas will never be able to be marketed as the best, because that's Acura's role.
• I also find it ironic that Honda has such a splendid record in motorcycle racing, yet because of their very conservative mass-market marketing of their cars, have a very different image. As you know, BMW markets both cars and motorcycles. Yet both their cars and bikes have a consistent and similar marketing theme, that being premium products. A BMW car owner can easily relate to BMW motorcycles (or vice-versa), because the marketing message is the same. I don't think Honda car owners can relate to Honda motorcycles, as easily as BMW car owners can.
Now whether what I just mentioned means a hill of beans or not, who knows... I just like a consistent marketing theme to be applied to all products, across the board, like what BMW does.
Bob
Interestingly, they were right next to the BMW dealer, but I don't think that dealer is certified to sell Minis. I'm sure the dealership owner is absolutely peeved about that.
Acura did well with the TL and the MDX, but that's recently. Their problem is a mostly FWD lineup for a supposedly luxury make. The RL needs fixing, fast, it's almost embarassing.
-juice
Bob
-Brian
-mike
I hear BMW is considering changing that, starting with a GP motorcycle using a 990cc inline 3. Apparently it's 3/5ths of one bank of a BMW F1 engine? Anyway, the rumors then portend that this racing effort would spur BMW's entry into modern powerplants in motorcycles. They have an inline four but it's longitudinally mounted and leans to the left... the rest of the lineup uses the old doggy flat twin, which is heavy and can't corner worth a darn.
-Colin
In terms of styling, suspensions and frame construction, I think all new BMW bikes are pretty much state-of-the-art. Except of course that idiotic BMW "cruiser" that they now offer.
In any case, I still think that the marketing of BMW bikes and their cars are aimed at a very similar audience. I don't think the same can be said of Honda.
Bob
www.iihs.org
-juice
• GMC Envoy XUV (Wagonaire, as Ed would call it) pixs and info. Other than the Honda Pilot, this is the first (barely) mid-size SUV that can handle 4x8 paneling flat inside!
• Quadra-steer make its way into 3/4 ton Suburbans/Yukons, and into more Chevy/GMC pickups.
• All-new Class IV - Class VIII commercial trucks.
http://www.gm-trucks.com/ART_2003_previewmain.shtml<
Juice, you were asking about a new Subie screen saver; check the Sube Directory, bottom left column.
http://home.earthlink.net/~gndiamant/subaru.htm
Bob
The opening is positively enormous, though. I think you could fit 2 or 3 refridgerators in there, sticking up out of it.
-juice
PS Did you watch that DVD I lent you (F&F)? What'd you think?
BTW, I need to get that back to you somehow.
Bob
-juice
Bob
http://www.crcarpriceservice.org/upcoming.asp
Come on Subaru, we need this stuff too!
Bob
http://www.hondabeat.com/news/accord2003.cfm
1)It does sorta look like the CRV, but reminds me of the Suburban(slight rear end styling cues, of course it is a lot smaller)
2) It looks fairly capable- the towing is pretty limited, but as a people mover, should definitely fit the bill with the "family set"
3) I expect to see Pilots-a-plenty with soccer moms yacking on their cell phones here in the Dallas area very soon.
4) Its the oddysey for people who would never consider driving a minivan(since its the same platform anyway.)
Rachel
-Brian
Bob
I saw my first (and second) Pilot in the flesh, too. Man are they boxy, in a good way. The front end has some resemblance to the CR-V, but the rear is quite different IMHO. No spare, much wider.
-juice
Drove the XL7 today. Hutch and I actually kind of liked the shorter Grand Vitara we drove at Edmunds Live. The only major short coming was the way it did the back-axle-boogy over the bumps at the end. So expectations were high.
Well, this was not nearly as fun. Man does it feel big. Long and tall, actually. It should beep when you put it in reverse. The long wheelbase meants wide turning circles, tough parking. I hopped a curb pulling out of the tight driveway.
And it LEANS, man, it's the opposite of sporty. Body roll is borderline ridiculous. Take a fast turn and you feel afraid you'll roll over.
The V6 is peppy, but loud and not very refined. 17/20 mpg for an auto 4WD V6, not too bad. The tranny was way too eager to shift early. It started in 2nd often, and only used 1st for the first couple of mph. Gotta re-think those gear ratios. There is a low range if you need to crawl, so no need for such a short granny first gear.
Inside, poor workmanship. Look at the top edges of the door frames - visible body welds! Not since my '91 Escort had I seen those. The carpets were more like molded cardboard with lint sprayed on them. Plastics on the door moldings had sharp edges. Seat fabric was nice, though, a velour, that was also used on the doors. The rear doors open wide and are huge, so access is good.
The seat bottom cushion was way, way too short. Even the wife complained. The arm rests are nice, but not long enough. It's an automatic, so make it bigger, Suzuki.
Headroom left acres above my 6 foot frame. Leg room was plentiful front and rear. The 3rd row is for kids, but even they won't like the leg room. Move the 2nd row up, and you can really only seat kids in the 2nd and 3rd rows. Plus cargo space is virtually nil with them in place. Still, in a pinch, for a car pool to the day care, it would be handy.
The cabin's biggest problem was a lack of width. Very narrow. I could reach over and touch my wife's door, which is a few inches closer than in the Forester (compared back to back). The driver's arm rest didn't go far back enough, and generally it wasn't all that comfy.
Loved the commanding view though. Above the other cars. But that's probably what contributes even more to the tippy feeling when cornering.
They had them for $20 grand with very basic stuff, $23 grand or so well equipped, so prices are good. But you could see where they cut corners, you definitely get what you pay for.
Not my type of vehicle. I guess for a person on a budget that needs to haul his 5 kids...no, wait. Get a minivan. They are much better.
-juice
..Mike
..Mike
Bob
There's a good article in there about rally cars, they specifically focused on all the trick differentials that the various racers use. It's a good read.
Bob
Wherever there are visual changes, they get a Photoshop guru to update the images. The PS guru is really excellent, but still...
Speaking as a graphic designer, I find this approach to brochure design disappointing. I guess it's cheaper to have someone go in and retouch the images, than to do a new photoshoot... Still, it comes off as looking like Subaru "cheaped out."
Bob
I still have the 2000 Outback brochure - it's fun to look at the new brochures and see the similar pictures. It's kind of like 'which one of these IS like the other'...
-Brian
I should mention that the rear doors are nice and wide, so access was easy.
Bob: I bet the main reason is that they don't want spy photographers spilling the beans to folks like us. But the 2003 was shown at NY, so what's the big deal?
-juice