Subaru Crew Cafe

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Congressional Mazda let me drive one home a while ago. A few months ago.

    I drove back roads and suburbs. You shift constantly. To be honest I think I preferred my 5 speed.

    So I don't feel like I'm missing out at all, especially with a taller overdrive on the 5 speed.

    I like the appearance of the 17" wheels more, but I think I'd rather have 16"s.

    Don't care about the 6CD at all.

    I like the leather shift knob but that is 40 bucks or whatever.

    The price difference is high - about $1500. For an extra ratio I don't really want, and pretty wheels that may hurt ride quality.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Gotta love the internet. I have half a dozen dealers competing for my business.

    I have collected solid price quotes from Congressional, Gaithersburg, Fitzgerald, Browns, Castle, and Rosenthal.

    Rosenthal has the Sport models, along with the best prices.

    Touring prices are all similar but the best price by a very slight margin was from Congressional, which is closest to me.

    I'll probably go to Rosenthal and if they're dishonest I'll try Congressional. What's great is I have written price quotes and I'm ready to walk. I have the minivan so I'm in no hurry, and will take absolutely no crap from any dealer, period.

    Gotta love recession pricing. In 2007 a hard top was $25 grand AT LEAST and that's if you could find one. Most were $30k and even would break 30.

    I'm looking at $20.7k for the Sport about $22.2k for the Touring.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Sounds like you've already made up your mind. ;)

    Bob
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    so what you're really saying is that you can have the hardtop GT with the heated seats for about what you would have paid for the model you're looking at now "pre-recession prices" ....

    either way .... ....

    Brenda (who can't even THINK about looking at another car ...)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, but even then they come in black leather with most colors. I'm not sure I could find a tan interior, not to mention it's about $5 grand extra.

    I can get an upholstery shop to add seat heaters for probably $3-400.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    You can always get an upholstery shop to install tan cloth seats while you're at it :) Shouldn't cost much for just two seats.

    Glad to see you're about to join the hard-top convertible crowd. I've been extremely satisfied with mine.

    As for the 5 vs 6 speed debate, it sounds like the 5 might be a better option for you since it gets better city mpg. One thing doesn't make sense though, if the 5 has a taller final drive ratio, why does the 6 have a better hwy mpg rating? In regards to the 6 having too many gears, I seldom row thru them all sequentially. Instead I may go from 1st to 3rd to 6th. Really depends on how hard I'm accelerating and the traffic conditions. Of course I've got a few more HP to play with ;)

    IRT the 17" rims, it's more the width of the sidewalls rather than the diameter of the rim that is the real concern. What's the tire size with the 17" rims?

    -Frank
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    I agree Juice, the 6 spd is just more work shifting- although I never get past 3rd or 4th in the city anyway. It's funny, sometimes I forget to shift into 6th on the freeway because I forget it's there!

    In a car so light I wouldn't worry too much about the 16/17inch wheels, besides if you bend a wheel you can always buy a better looking set! I think the bigger wheels look much better filling the fenders too.

    I like the miata- was looking at one before I bought the STi. The Mazda dealer here in Seattle was the first Mazda dealer in the states and they get company demo cars that only have a few thousand miles at a few thousand in savings. Was very tempted. . .

    Sounds like a good plan juice! I was just thinking today it would be nice to have a convertible. ;)

    tom
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's funny, sometimes I forget to shift into 6th on the freeway because I forget it's there!

    Tom, I too forget what gear I'm in sometimes. I've asked SOA to include a digital gear indicator on their manual-equipped cars, much like what you find on sport-shift automatics. This is even more of a problem with close-ratio 6-speeds, as it's often difficult to tell what gear you're in without reaching for the gearshift to find its position. I've recently learned that the 2010 6-speed Legacy GT will have this feature; not sure about 5-speed Legacys however.

    Bob
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    That's a really good idea Bob. I remember seeing this in a video of the Crawford Time Attack STi thinking that would be nice to have sometimes. I'm just so used to shifting into 5th as my last gear that I would forget I have one more! The STi is fairly quiet on smoother roads with my all season tires so that I don't notice the higher revs.

    It's kinda strange- it's like this car doesn't know what it wants to be. It's fast, but has lost it's edge. It's comfortable, and reasonably quiet more like a legacy, but not really nice inside. I feel like Subaru should have gone all out performance or made the interior a lot nicer so that it's more comfortable. It's still a blast to drive and fine for my commute, but I'm seriously thinking about making some major suspension mods. I've already bought new wheels and tires which will go on when it gets warmer- we'll see how much that improves things.

    as for the next gen Legacy, maybe they will build a twin turbo 3.6 LGT? It could be an all season M3 killer! ;)

    Oh well, probably not in this economy.

    tom
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Frank: skipping gears is not a bad idea. I have no idea why the shorter 6 speed model gets better highway MPG. For model year 2009 they actually made the 6th ratio taller, so you know owners were complaining.

    Not too big a deal, I don't do much highway driving.

    I'm used to 116hp (on a good day) so I'm sure 166hp will seem like plenty. It's very light, remember. Is your a SLK320 or 350?

    I drove one with Bob at Taste of Lexus and loved it. 6 speed manual. Around here all the used ones are auto, I checked. $22,900 for a 2005 SLK350 is not bad, actually, but like I said it's autotragic.

    Sidewalls...let's see.

    Sport gets 205/50R16, so 102.5mm sidewall height.
    Touring is 205/45R17, so 92.25mm sidewall height.

    Not quite half inch, or 10%. That's not too big a difference.

    I think the bigger wheels look much better filling the fenders

    Ain't that the truth - the base wheels leave an SUV-like wheel gap. No wonder so many people lower 'em.

    Read my next post for an update...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Now I remember why I hate traditional dealers, even the ones offering e-quotes are playing games.

    I have prices on Touring models from Browns, Fitz, Congressional, and Gaithersburg. All within $200 or so.

    So I call Tysons Rosenthal, because they have the cheaper Sport, and the guy says he can give me similar savings.

    When I provide the hard numbers, as well as my estimate for his should-be price, he backs out of his promise. Crazy. I was asking for a price about $1400 lower than the Tourings, and the MSRP is a good $1700 or so lower. I think they should be able to do it.

    He can't even come close. Then he says he doesn't know how the other dealers are doing it (if FOUR dealers can offer deep discounts why can't he?). :mad:

    So I call their other store, Arlington Rosenthal. The fast-talking salesman is quoting great figures, but when I ask for an out-the-door price his quote is you-must-be-crazy high. Close to the Touring prices, actually. They haggle down a little, but it's still not at my target price and only about a grand less than the Tourings with the Suspension Package.

    So....

    Now I'm thinking the Touring package would be worth the extra cost. For a grand, I'd get the nicer rims, the 6 speed (even if I don't use all the gears), the 6CD changer, the leather shift knob, and best of all - Bilstein shocks and a Torsen rear limited-slip diff.

    What's actually selling me on it is the Torsen. Those are sweet. I recall Colin recommending a diff to someone and quoting prices of $700-900 or so for the diff alone, plus install.

    The Bilstein shocks are appealing because to be honest that's one reason I sold the old one - I was gonna spend nearly a grand on new shocks and didn't want to invest any more in it.

    So let's see. I have Congressional working on an out-the-door price.

    I have a message to Gaithersburg Mazda, we'll see.

    I have a fall-back - Fitz Mazda in Annapolis is hassle-free, so worst case scenario I may just go there.

    So right now it's looking like a Touring Hardtop, 6 speed, 17", Bilstein + Torsen LSD.

    If you think about it, the highest performance model there is. :shades:
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    In the 48+K driving I've done with 17" tires, potholes have not been a problem, at least not yet.

    My '06 WRX (215/45x17) had a bit over 43K on it when it was totaled.

    My new '09 WRX (225/45x17) is fast approaching 5K.

    Yeah, the ride may be a tad harsher, but they do handle better. So it's a trade-off, depending on what's important to you.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, the 17"s are actually bigger overall. 16" vs. 17" (the first number applies to the 16s):

    Stock Tire - 205/50R16
    Tire 1 - 205/45R17

    Section Width: 8.07 in 205 mm
    Section Width: 8.07 in 205 mm

    Rim Diameter: 16 in 406.4 mm
    Rim Diameter: 17 in 431.8 mm

    Overall Diameter: 24.07 in 611.37 mm
    Overall Diameter: 24.26 in 616.20 mm (bigger overall)

    Sidewall Height: 4.03 in 102.36 mm
    Sidewall Height: 3.63 in 92.202 mm (0.4" less sidewall)

    Radius: 12.03 in 305.56 mm
    Radius: 12.13 in 308.10 mm

    Circumference: 75.61 in 1920.4 mm
    Circumference: 76.21 in 1935.7 mm

    Revs per Mile: 864.1
    Revs per Mile: 857.3

    Actual Speed: 60 mph 100 km/h
    Speedometer1: 59.5 mph 99.2 km/h

    Speedometer Difference: - Speedometer Difference: 0.793% too slow
    Diameter Difference: - Diameter Difference: 0.79%
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Does that have summer tires? I saw a sport suspension option, is that what you're looking at?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good to know...

    I just hope they don't play games with pricing like Rosenthal did. :sick:

    Got mine sold, collected the cash today, new owner already has plates for it!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    That's great juice! Now you can focus on getting the new one. :)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep. Don't want to drive the minivan to work. That thing is huge! What's the opposite of nimble?

    Plus it won't fit in half the parking spaces in my garage.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    I think the word you want is LUMBERING.

    Good luck with the process. I never did understand why the Sport version of the MIata, a supposedly sporty car was less sporty than the Touring. I could understand if it was really a GT vehicle, but the Miata is not.

    I think $1k for Bilsteins and LSD would be a no brainer for me if the M6 wasn't too busy in traffic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thanks, I need all the encouragement I can get. Definitely spending a bit more than I'd planned. It should be well worth it, though.

    Got an out-the-door price on a Touring+Suspsension pkg under $24k, may buy this weekend....
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well, look at it this way: Now is the best time to buy ANY vehicle. Also, I think in the long run you will be happy with the model upgrade. Now if only it had heated seats... ;)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes it is.

    You know me, I've been shopping for...oh, since the day after I got my 1993. :D

    In 2007 hardtops were high 20s to low 30s.

    Last year they were still mid-high 20s.

    I'm paying $22k and change (plus tax) on a well equipped mid-line model. It was 24033+99 at Fitz back in September. I'm $1900 lower 6 months later.

    It's pretty much a done deal. In fact if it falls through I have a backup 2nd deal that's very nearly identical.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    When are you picking it up? We'll have to get together to compare our new rides. :)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not as bad as with the Sienna, but the packages on Miatas make no sense.

    06 had Club Spec, Base, Touring, Sport, GT, and LE.

    For 07 they added a couple of option packages.

    For 08, for some inexplicable reason, the Sport and Touring models changed places.

    That makes it ultra-confusing to shop used. A Sport could be well equipped (06-07) or very basic (08).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Missed that post - not sure about summer tires, but I'd be OK either way.

    When it snows I steal the wife's Forester! :D

    Yes indeed we have to compare rides. I'll find a way to come out to see you if I get the thing, you know how obsessed I am with cars, I haven't slept for 2 nights! :surprise:
  • hammerheadhammerhead Member Posts: 907
    I never thought I'd ever hear of a minivan referred to as huge! :)
    I guess it's all relative...

    Minivans don't fit in a parking garage? They must be making the spaces way smaller these days!

    Congrats on the new ride, Juice - whichever one you end up with!

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Gotta love this...

    MSRP on mine is $28,010, invoice $25,891, TMV is $26,335.

    The catch is that is for 2009 models.

    So you can see how they're really clearing out the 2008s.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yes indeed we have to compare rides

    Yikes, I better get mine washed (again) and vacuumed...

    Bob
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Under spirited acceleration do you find the power seems to drop off past about 5500rpm? Power certainly feels more meaty in the mid range than my 04, but the old WRX would pull fully to redline in 2nd without letting up. I know that had been one of the criticisms some had for the 08 models, but thought that the bigger turbo and programme in the 09 was supposed to address that. What I notice is that I used to accelerate to 60 in second, but now I shift up to 3rd just above fiftty or it feels like it's running out of oomph.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Yes indeed we have to compare rides

    Hey wait until the first of April when I get there. It would be an interesting contrast driving a WRX, a Miata and a SLK350 back-to-back-to-back :)

    -Frank
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    MSRP on mine is $28,010, invoice $25,891, TMV is $26,335.

    And you're paying $22k for a new 2008? You should report yourself for stealing! :P
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    To be honest, I haven't noticed, as I don't spend much time above 5500 rpm. The few times that I've redlined the '09, it seems to deliver strong power right up to the limit. It definitely pulls better past 5K than my old '06 model.

    I do think the gearing is different. Either that or the engine is more flexible than my old '06. That car I couldn't really use 5th much under 50 mph; not so with the new model, as I can use 5th as low as 40 mph.

    My sense is that the 2.0 engine, like your '04, is happier at high revs than the 2.5. At least that's the feeling I get when comparing the JDM 2.0 STI vs. our 2.5 STI, as the write-ups seem to suggest that. Whether that carries over to the WRX as well, I don't know.

    Bob
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    For the record, I've only been near red line a couple of times myself. I just noticed it when accelerating all out after pulling onto a 2 lane highway. Redline is higher on the 09 than my 04, so I'm not sure about it being less happy at high revs. Gearing could certainly be the issue.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If you're running through the gears, like accelerating away from a toll booth, it's really quick. As for roll-on accelerating, you need to choose your gears wisely. I've found if you're not in the right gear, power is only okay, not great. I guess that goes with any small-displacement/high-horsepower engine.

    Bob
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    You don't know the half of it. The 2.0 was very touchy in that regard. By comparison, the 09 will lay down power from anywhere. For the most part, I've only been driving on snow/ice covered streets since I bought it. I will get the chance to play a little more once spring is in full swing. Snowing again this weekend.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've driven a few 2.0 WRXs, and yes, you had to keep it above 3K for any sort of power.

    I've also ridden some very powerful 2-stroke motorcycles (Kawasaki 500 Mach III, and 350 Mach II, and Suzuki X6 Hustler), many years back. Those bikes had powerbands that came on like when you flipped a switch on. It was either all power, or no power.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh my how fun gotta run can't stop driving this thing I think my daughter needs more spare pencils time to drive to the store again catch up later. :shades:
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Which one did you end up getting?

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Hey juice, with the top down, any chance of getting two sets of golf bags in the trunk? My next door neighbor is looking at getting a roadster (he will be replacing a '55 MG TF), but it has to hold two golf bags in the trunk with the top down (or one set in the trunk with the other behind the front seat).

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    ...I find this: An AWD STI--powered roadster called the Murtaya.

    http://www.murtayausa.com/

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25947599#post25947599

    Bob
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    http://www.murtaya.com/

    is another USA web site for the Murtaya, set up by a major fan of the product.
    A Murtaya factory build is around 24,000 pounds (or $33,592 USA dollars at today's exchange rate). Not cheap.

    But, if it sells decently here perhaps that bodes well the ToyoRu (or SubaTa ?) roadster that should appear in a few years.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Subaru has not said anything about building an AWD roadster—but they should—and then can the RWD coupe.

    Also, this is using the STI drivetrain, which is one reason why it costs over $30K. Offer it with a N/A engine (2.0 Direct Injection Subie coupe engine slated for 2012) and the cost will drop significantly.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    ...a "show-and-tell." He showed me the new Miata, and I showed him my new WRX. We even swapped cars. His new Miata is very, very nice—and a ton of fun to drive. Even though the roads were wet (the weather was just drizzerble), you could still enjoy it, as we had some fun roads to play on. Oh... 6-speeds ROCK! :)

    Juice was complaining about the Miata's harsh ride. We discovered the tires were aired up to 45-50 psi. They should be 29 psi. With the psi lowered, the car rode just fine.

    Didn't get a chance to see his hard-drop-top drop, however. Ran out outta of time. :(

    Bob
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Juice didn't notice the tires were over inflated?!?! Has the OCD moon/planet alignment gone whacky? ;)

    -Brian
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Juice didn't notice the tires were over inflated?!?! Has the OCD moon/planet alignment gone whacky?

    Yeah what the heck?!??! Mr OCD and author of pre-delivery inspection checklists?!?! :surprise:

    I guess it just proves that even the best of us can get caught up in the emotion of the moment. The lesson here is that you should always take a dis-interested third party with you when making a major purchase ;)

    -Frank
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Oh for shame! I vote he be put on probation until he has show sufficient evidence of rehabilitation from his deficient state of mind! :)

    Oh well, I suppose we can let him slide just once. :)

    I found the ride on the new Miata to be a little choppy, but I guess that will improve as the suspension breaks in.

    When do we get a pic Juice?

    tom
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess I'm slipping but to be fair I took delivery late Friday night, and it has been continuously since the minute I picked up the car. Haven't seen the sun in days. Plus Saturday was booked with 4 events for the family.

    The tires were like rocks until we aired down. I was *seriously* concerned about ride quality, and then extremely relieved when I found it was definitely tolerable at 29psi. Not a great ride, just tolerable.

    I ended up with the power hard top, Touring model (it goes SV, then Sport, then Touring, then Grand Touring), plus the Suspension package. The hard top comes with more content than the soft top, plus the Touring is pretty well equipped. The suspension package adds the Torsen rear LSD, summer tires, Bilstein shocks, and stiffer springs. It handles great, as you can imagine.

    Had a lot of fun with Bob on Sunday, in fact it was the first real drive I've taken, and it was still damp the whole time so we could not push it. We took some nice windy back roads, though, and it was a hoot.

    His WRX is quick, boy is it ever. The new Miata is much quicker than my 93 Miata, and a quick car, but the WRX is at a whole other level. Significantly quicker, no doubt. That turbo just presses you in to the seat, and it doesn't take long to spool, offering boost as low as 2700rpm. The Miata's peak power isn't until redline above 7000rpm, and I'm in break-in mode so 4000rpm for now.

    I'd give a slight edge in handling to the Miata, with a little less body roll, and of course less weight and size.

    However...what surprised me about the WRX was how refined it is. A lot less engine noise than my Miata, even with the top closed. Less road noise also. In fact I think the ride quality and noise isolation practically matches our 2009 Forester, and that's impressive.

    I remember taking my 98 Forester out and driving back-to-back with and Impreza 2.5RS, and back then the Forester was night-and-day more refined. Not so any more. That impressed me.

    It will be nice to try that again, when the roads are bone dry, and I can take the engine up to redline. :shades:

    Kudos to Gaithersburg Mazda. No surprises, they honored the price, didn't push stuff on me I didn't want, and tossed in 2 free oil changes. Their only mistake was forgetting to air down the tires.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Are coming, promise.

    Bob didn't see the top go down, and to be honest neither have I! It has been damp the entire time since I got it, still is now. :(

    Golf bags? Maybe a small one, but I doubt a PGA style bag would fit. Put it in the passenger seat. :D
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    It's a convertible- tons of space with the top down! :)

    I saw a Boxster last week with the top down in the rain. The guy was bringing home a picture. Not a little one, but a huge one that would take up a wall!!! It was sticking about 3 feet above the top of his windshield!

    I think he should have just paid to have it delivered. ;)

    The power top is really cool- watching it open and close. I'm still thinking about buying one for my wife and look forward to your comments Juice.

    tom
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Rest assured you'll soon be tired of hearing about mine. :D

    Hey - auto or manual?

    If she wants a base manual, a local dealer had one for a killer price. Apparently one dealer went out of business so they got it well below cost. This Sport automatic soft top was at $18.5k, unreal. I'm sure they would add freight and processing, but the price before tax would still be under $20k.

    If it had been a 5 speed I may have nabbed it.
  • css1css1 Member Posts: 247
    Hi AJ,
    Hi Bob
    Hello everybody on the thread!!

    Long time no speak. I have been very busy at work. You gotta work harder in a bad economy to stay the same.
    Congrats on your new cars.

    Anybody coming up to the NY show??

    Regards
    Charlie
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