Infiniti G37 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

jkwcmw

Sewellgsm - I need to respectfully disagree with your rant. What we both will agree on is that the dealership deserves to make money. What I disagree with is them making money on my purchase. If a dealership is willing to sell me a car at cost or slightly below cost, I'm all over that deal like fat on a mother-in-law and I will not feel the slightest bit guilty. The way I figure it, for every one of us that research the heck out of the purchase and go in to the dealership knowing what we're doing, there are always going to be buyers that don't have a clue and that is where you make your money. I can't imagine your salespeople feel guilty when they take someone for a ride. I would imagine it's a source of pride when they sell a car for thousands above invoice and then screw the customer on useless add-ons and financing. Do dealerships feel guilty charging over $100 for an oil change?

The bottom line is this - the folks that read these forums and go in well prepared are going to get a good deal and the dealerships can afford to make these deals, (even below cost) because their profitability isn't going to be measured on just that sale but the aggregate of all their sales. This is the system that keeps the "good" dealerships in business. Competition Infinity and Sewell Infiniti can both share the number one ranking because of this system. Now, Infiniti can try to sell cars at a set price with no negotiating like Saturn tried to do but I'm guessing that would lower your profits. That system didn't seem to work out very well for Saturn.

cacunet

Shipping across the country. From Virginia to Washington State. The best quote I got so far is from nationaltransportllc.com. With their priority shippping 6 days (est) time of transit. I got quoted about $1100 for open transport and $1500 for enclosed transport. I'm deciding if the extra $400 is worth it for the enclosed transport. It would be nice to have enclosed transport, but I figure, the carrier already has insurance to cover accidents and my insurance also covers damage. I'm not sure if the extra $400 is well spent. I'm leaning toward the open transport.

Opinions please.

jtla

Even without an enclosed trailer, your new G37 will spend most of the transit time on interstate highway, hiding behind the big rig engine. This is the same way in which dealerships around the country get their cars. Don't spend a big chunk of your hard-earned saving by buying out-of-state on the transportation cost. So, just relax and wait for your baby to arrive.

dashm

Thank you Graphicguy (and Jtla). I am an owner now at it feels sinful driving and being in this car.

britishmutt

Agreed. I'd only use a closed container for something that really warranted it, like hauling an open-wheel racer or a rare vintage marque cross country in the winter. The G37 is very special, I know, but not THAT special :P

cacunet

I read a lot of horror stories about auto transporters. It kind of scares me.

m6user

Just know exactly(small print) where you stand insurancewise both from the carrier and your own policies.

sewellgsm

I agree with you. I'm just warning the forum readers that we (dealers) rarely do a deal that does not make money somewhere. There are exceptions - such as I have a 09 G sedan that has $5000 body damage to disclose - this is a vehicle I would sell for a small loss. Or dealers just have too much stuff and the new stuff is out, they may take a small loss, etc.

Two things I can assure you - I don't agree to do deals that lose money and we don't charge $100 for oil changes

We are fair, give good amounts on the trade, have great financing, and are friendly and informative - no games. Most customers enjoy that.

I will post new incentives as soon as I get them.....

graphicguy

cacunet....if it's the kind of transport we see all the time delivering new vehicles (open), then that's probably how the G was delivered to the dealership in the first place from the port.

If they've got insurance to cover ANY damage, I say go for it.

cacunet

Thanks for the vote of confidence guys. It's the thought of having to do body damage repair on a new never driven car makes me eek. I guess that's the risk I have to take.

jtla

Like most negative stuff on the Internet, for every horror story you read, there were probably more than one hundred cases that went smoothly without a hiccup. Most people just don't come on line to report a non-event. My company used to do several employee relocations a year, including transporting their vehicles. None was in enclosed trailer, and all went without incident. However, that does not guarantee our next relocation will also be as smooth.

It all comes down to probability, and that's where insurance comes in. As long as you use a reputable transporter, most likely than not your G37 will be fine. Just make sure that you inform your own insurance company once the sales is finalized.

graphicguy

sewell...I never expect a dealer to sell me a car at a loss, period. Doesn't mean I won't shop, or go for the "skinny" margin. To me, it's ridiculous to try to dip into holdback. It's just as ridiculous to think that a dealer HAS TO sell me a car at invoice, less incentives.

I also understand that a dealership makes money, not only on the "deal" itself. There are other ways for him/her to pad their profit. Doc fees are just one way.

That's why I always ask, "was there a trade? Financing through the dealer? What are their doc fees? Any dealer installed options?"

All those, and more, are ways for a dealer to pad their profit.

I do agree. It's the ENTIRE deal (from negotiations, all the way through the F&I office to ascertain how good (or how bad) a deal is.

I see it all the time here at Edmunds...someone bought a "Zipmobile" for less than invoice less holdback, got all the incentives. I have a hard time believing those. There's no way a dealer can stay in business (well, not for long) if they're in the habit of selling cars at a loss. Somehow, somewhere, a profit was gained, if some posters were spot on with their quotes. In rare cases (as with your $5K body damage car" that you have to take a bit of a loss. But, those are rare.

rll4

Good for you, but you are the exception not the rule. South Florida dealers
love to tack on $ 900 dealers fees and the must have $ 700 appearance package.
(Nitrogen in the tires and paint and leather treatment). When you tell the salesman
these charges are 95% profit they act like its a state mandate like sales tax,
and act insulted. They also like to play dumb regarding dealer incentives. Lots of
Seniors in Florida. Unless they visit sites like this one, they will probably
overpay, and that hurts informed consumers.

sewellgsm

What are you buying that you are going half way across the US for? :confuse:

m6user

They take the seniors everywhere just not Florida. If they don't do it with fees they just screw them on price. My dad lives in Texas and is 86 this year. He got screwed royally about two years ago on a new Mercury. I didn't even know he was looking to buy or I would have went down there and helped him. He knows to talk to me first now but how many more cars will he buy? He just refuses to admit that he can't handle that type of thing well anymore. I'll probably be the same way. That's probably why the dealers get away with so much crap in FL.....all the seniors.

clsmooth

What is VPP and how do you get it???

sewellgsm

It is Vehicle Purchase Plan reserved for Nissan/Infiniti employees and employees of companies that are in partnership with Nissan/Infiniti. Check your HR department to see what benefits (if any) you are eligible for.

graphicguy

Sewell...any change in incentives for March?

g2369

I also want to know the incentives for March.

I am looking to lease a 2010 G37 sport coupe.

cacunet

Local dealers wouldn't negotiate prices on 09 models. There's no more red 09 AWD models nearby. Buying across the US and have it shipped here is still cheaper than buying locally and I can get the color I want instead of what's remaining (Moonlight White). It's a hassle but I'm happy with the painless purchase from across the state than having to deal with the local dealers, such a painful experience even with their internet department. I've read many pages back in this forum and saw that there were also some people in the NW that had problems negotiating with the local dealers and ended up buying out of state. It makes me feel that I'm not alone.

sewellgsm

No change except for 2010 GCV.

09 G sedan: Special rates + $1000 OR $3500
09 G coupe: Special rates + $1500 OR $4500
09 G convertible: $2000

10 G sedan: Special rates + $500 OR $1500
10 G coupe: Special rates OR $1500
10 G convertible: Spec Rates OR $1000 (vehicles just arrived at dealers this week).

Hope this helps.

graphicguy

Thanks, Sewell!

zatires

According to Business Week, the average car sales per dealer for Honda was 1000 cars per year.

Now with only 1000 car sales per year, these Honda dealers are able to keep inventories of many cars, run a huge dealer with building costs, employee costs, benefits, taxes, fees, insurance, financing fees, utilities etc.

If anybody thinks that a dealer makes only 500 dollar profit per car, they maybe right, but it will be pure profit the least.

And imagine the real cost of that car to the dealer.

Invoice price is BS.

If a dealer sells you the car at invoice price he is still making loads of cash off the price of the car.

So lowball the dealers
If they accept your offer fine you buy a car
If not walk away
Move to another dealer
Go to another brand
There are many choices

sewellgsm

Infiniti is NOT Honda. Some of what you say is true (if they don't accept your offer walk away)...but much is not. Infiniti considers itself a luxury brand. We sold the most new Infinitis in the entire country and that was only 1198. As you stated the average Honda dealership does about that, so they are much higher volume, but we both have similar cost structures to run a dealership - so since the average Infiniti dealership sells about half the average Honday dealership, they would need to make twice as much per car sold to make as much gross profit.

Each manufacturer has different programs, such as GM holdback is 3% compared to Infiniti which is 1.5%. So, again it is hard to compare Honda to Infiniti.

So, be careful "lowballing" too much or you will just be wasting your time and time is money. So, I guess you will be wasting your money.

Zatires - if I had to guess, I would guess you don't own your own business, because that little thing called "overhead" keeps dealers as most businesses from making "loads of cash". Heck even the NBA says they are going broke....go find out how much it cost to build a 30-40,000 square foot building along the interstate in a big city - then keep it going - it ain't cheap.

Don't confuse "gross" profit with "net" profit......

graphicguy

sewell...I tend to agree with you. You cna go in all day, everyday and low ball to your heat's content. You'll frustrate yourself. A dealer is going to make money. That's a given....and understood. No commercial business can lose money.

You can go in and offer $1,000 below invoice and most likely, you'll be turned away.

I don't have any problems with a dealership making money. I also don't have any problem in shopping dealer against dealer. Time and again, I hear "I bought hundreds/thousands below invoice". The only way that might have happened is the trade was lowballed, high doc fees, additional dealer installed options, etc."

I look at "trucar.com" to see real numbers, actual prices people have paid in my area to get a good idea where the ceiling, and the floor is on pricing.

Still, no matter. I'm a VPP customer, which trumps any retail price.

zatires

Thanks Sewell for proving my point.

There is an enormous amount of profit per car sold, that is how the dealers are able to pay for their overhead, their employees etc. Invoice price is BS, and it is the starting point.

A person should always pursue to get a car below invoice. Infiniti considers itself luxury, so what? Mercedes cars are sold for below invoice at all times, sometimes way below. Porsche is sold below invoice all the time, and Porsche is beyond luxury compared to Infiniti.

Thank you for proving my point.

Always try to purchase the car below invoice, that would be the true fair deal for the customer.

jtla

It seems that once in a while, a discussion such as this will come up. Here I am just throwing out a few personal thoughts, not trying to prove anything or getting into any debate.

1. Sometimes I feel sorry for car dealership/salesperson. There are very few other businesses where (some of) its customers try every way to figure out their true, absolute net cost, and then allow them to make just a few hundred dollars on a $40k car. Think about it, what other items do you shop this way? Or, if you were doing a business, would you mark up 1%? :confuse:

2. But I guess dealers and salesperson, at least those in the past, brought this onto themselves. Remember all those car salesman jokes on TV? Personally, I will never forget the name and the face of the guy who tricked me a few hunder dollars when I purchased my first car 25 years ago.

3. Those of us who come to this forum are savvy buyers who know how to utilize the power of knowledge, which was made possible by this great thing called Internet. We can, should, and indeed pay a (much) better price than most others who, for whatever reason, don't shop the way we do. Accordingly, dealership/salesperson make less money (but hardly any loss) on our transactions. (Hey, we did our homework; we deserve it. )

4. However, if everyone does shop the way we do, eventually we, the current savvy few, will pay more. But guess what? The AVERAGE price will be about the same, just the price range in which everybody pays becomes narrower.

5. And that is because a dealership needs to make certain amount of GROSS PROFIT in order to keep the business running or, in some case, survive. They cannot afford to give everybody the sweet deals we are getting.

6. The reason why one customer, like you and I, can pay $500 below invoice is that someone else has paid $1,500 over invoice -- or had a trade-in, or financed with the dealer, etc. You didn't think Edmunds made up those TMV numbers, did you? )

7. The day when everyone learns the secret, we, the savvy ones, will lose the edge. So, enjoy while we can. and stop beating up the nice dealer reps who participate in this forum. (SewellGSM, thank you for all the information that you have offered to this board.)

Cheers!

zatires

Let's not forget

The dealers make even more money selling used cars.
Without a doubt it is a very profitable business.

If it was not you would not have Sewell history since 1930s
Many dealers stay around for many years.

I also thank Sewell for his contribution to the board.

graphicguy

jtla....I've been driving for 30+ years. Out of that 30 years...the last 20 of them buying new cars. I dunno...probably bought, or helped someone else buy 50 new cars in that time period.

Just recently...say the last 3-4 years, I've seen a subtle change in the way a dealership makes money. Sure, they try to hold as much margin on the purchase price as they possibly can. But, with numbers posted all over the place regarding MSRP, invoice, etc, it's become harder to do.

So, they have to make money. I'm seeing them doing that in different ways. The more recent way, is the "DOC FEE".....$400-$500-$600....I've even seen them as high as $700-$800 for what amounts to work to do the docs that costs them maybe $50.

Add to that, the always profitable extended warranty business. And, the business of getting finance kickbacks, or dealer installed options, on and on, the dealerships have found other ways to make money. I've even seen some dealers and posts that state their prices didn't include delivery (which is listed on the MSRP sticker). One dealer in KY was posting great prices, until you look at the fine print, which they stipulated the prices quoted doesn't include a $500 "prep fee". Manufacturers pay the dealerships to "prep" the cars (take off the shipping plastic, do inspections, shine it up, put a full tank of gas in the car, etc). Yet, this dealer did a "double dip" by charging a $500 additional prep fee.

I don't fault them for that. That's how they stay in business. However, that also means that the prices paid postings have little relevance here, unless the ENTIRE deal is posted.

This is also the same reason that when I buy a new car, I give them one price. It includes everything, and I do mean everything. I figure my own taxes. I know my state's license fees ($35). I add in a little for preparation of the docs (certainly not hundreds of dollars). I give the dealer that ONE number. They can either accept it, or decline it. IF they accept it, I just bought a new car. If they decline it, I move on to another dealer. If everyone declines it, I know I came in too low, and go back at it again with a little higher offer.

g2369

Just found a left over 2009 G37 sport coupe and would like to know the residuals and money factor for 36 months/15k miles and 24 months/15k miles.

Thank you.

sewellgsm

Assuming 6speed sport coupe

36 = 58%
24 = 59%

36 will obviously be a much better payment.

sewellgsm

We (the last 5-6 posters) are all saying the same thing. I am admitting we, the dealers, make money on the sale of a vehicle OR we pass on it. So, look at the ENTIRE deal - if the price is under cost - the warning radar should go off (look for high doc fees, prep fees, bad trade in values, high financing) because we, the dealers, are gonna make some money somewhere.....there can be exceptions (but it better be a very realistic, business reason).

It is true, folks like you guys (the super edmunds educated) only make up about 5% of the buying public and that is why (at times) you guys shop all over the country to find someone willing to give you the price you want. We (the dealers) rather sell the vehicles to the other 95%...IF you offer your local dealer about $500 over invoice (then take special rates or dealer cash) your life will be much easier, save a ton of time, save gas, save future headaches because the dealer you bought from is the dealer who will do the warranty work (and hopefully service). That is just my thoughts....unless you live in Texas, then it is worth coming to see me

PS Our average G sedan transaction price was $1007 over invoice for Feb (some took special rates, some took the $1500 so they ended up $493 below invoice). This was on 33 G sedans and it is an average, so some higher and some lower, some added accessories, etc. Hope this helps you guys when you shop. And as one of the recent posters said - you guys do great because you are informed.

ilrxdoc

Looking at a new 2009 G37x with:
Premium Pack
Navigation
Sport Pack
Splash guards, trunk mat, trunk cargo net

MSRP: $42,480
Invoice: $38,942

With the $3500 manufacturer cash, it would bring price from invoice down to $35,442.

What is a realistic price to offer? Is $35,000 a reasonable price? Or should I go lower given it is March 2010? The dealership I'm looking at has at least three of this model still on the lot. Thanks.

bk5001

Makes no sense because you can get 2010 for just about 2k more with exactly the same features (2010 includes backup camera and hard disk based audio also). If you take it invoice to invoice - the only difference is of incentive being 3500 or 1500. So, for 2009 model you need to have at least 10-13% difference between 2 model years since after all once you take it on road - this car is no different than someone who bought this in Jan 2009 because both are one year old cars. That price was a good deal in Dec/Jan but at this point I will say you should aim to go under 35K if you want to stick to 2009 model. The dealer will make money in servicing these cars during your ownership. so don't worry too much about dealer prices. -- good luck.

jtla

No change except for 2010 GCV.

10 G sedan: Special rates + $500 OR $1500
10 G coupe: Special rates OR $1500
10 G convertible: Spec Rates OR $1000 (vehicles just arrived at dealers this week).

Sewell, the VPP quote I received for a 2010 G37 sedan included a "regional incentive" of $1,500. Is it the same $1,500 as you mentioned above or could it be something regional? Can I still take the special rate with VPP price? Thanks in advance.

rm5001

What are the current lease per month for 2010 G-37 Journey sedan with premium, navigation and sports package. The lease will be for 36 months and 15,000 miles. Thanks for posting money factor, residual amd cap reduction as well.

ilrxdoc

Thanks, that makes sense. So I should be aiming for right around $37,200 on a 2010, which is for a comparably equipped car with an invoice of $38,714.

I do like the gauge cluster of the '10 better as well.

sewellgsm

Yes the $1500 is the same and yes you can get VPP price and the special rates (but you won't get the $1500).

sewellgsm

There is a "lease G37" forum on this site...post overthere and Carman will answer all your lease questions.

36 = 59% for 15k, there is 5 money factors depending on credit score...

rm5001

Thanks. I have posted my lease question to the "Lease G37" forum.

sewellgsm

Just met "graphicguy" in person - it is awesome to put a face to posts! Anyone is welcome to stop by if in town, love to give you a Quick Tour of the place.

BTW here are the Top 5 - 2010 rankings through Feb.

1. Pepe Infiniti (New York)
2. Sewell Infiniti of Dallas (Texas)
3. Infiniti of Coconut Creek (South Florida)
4 . Ray Catena Infiniti (New Jersey)
5. Competition Infiniti (New York)

dealermgr

You have to love a guy who uses the word "ENORMOUS" when talking about profits on a new car. Obviously this person has no clue what he is talking about. If you want a "great" or "best" deal on a new car all you have to do is go in to the store that has the car you want to BUY today and ask for a Sales Manager and ask to see the invoice and all incentives available on that car and make a FAIR offer using that information. If they don't want to give this to you---leave and go somewhere else. Just remember some people like to think/act like they know everything about everything when in reality they know little about most things!!

plumekuss

I am looking to buy the 2010 G37x. I do very little mileage so will keep the car a long time. I am being offered the Infiniti Elite Coverage 84 months for $1,776 with no deductible. I know its really a 3 year because the car has a 4 year/60k mile so it equates to about $600 per annum which on the surface does not look too bad.

Any thoughts?

BTW, one dealer will not budge at $500 over invoice and I have one ready to deal at close to $500 under invoice. Buying prem package, NAV and some small options like mats, trunk net, mud guards etc.Should I be concerned?

Can service work be done at any Infiniti dealer under the warranty regardless? What about the car washes/service loaners etc? Do they check where you bought the car or are they happy to be getting the service business?

Need help please.

sewellgsm

$1776 is a great price for an 84 month Elite Warrany. We charge $2195 for it here. Service can be done at any Infiniti dealership; however the loan cars may have priority to those who bought at the dealership you are servicing at. The car washes are also a dealer to dealer type thing.

They are happy to get the service. You should just work out a deal with the dealer you want to use for service.

zatires

You have to love a guy who uses the word "ENORMOUS" when talking about profits on a new car. Obviously this person has no clue what he is talking about.

Blah blah blah

I would more like think that a manager of a dealer is the one who is trying to suck the most money out of a buyer, before thinking a guy who says enormous profits having no clue.

Yeah...
That is why we always hear the same BS from the managers in the car dealers saying, if I give you this deal I will be losing money, so I can not. And then you walk away, and they call you right away and saying "Ok Ok for you only we will make the deal"

Who are these managers trying to fool?
Themselves or the buyers?

Yeah they maybe fooling majority of the buyers, but not the informed ones.

I know how much a car dealer needs to pull in as profits to pay for their sales managers, GM, sales associates, inventory loans, building, mortgage/lease, maintenance and all the other overhead costs.

To be able to pay for all that, plus make handsome profit to the dealer owners, they need a nice chunk of profit.

And the invoice price is a total BS when it comes to the true cost of the car to the dealer.

We all know that.
But for some reason the dealer managers keep on trying to fool the car buyers, day after day.

I have lotsa clue of what I am talking about, but the manager seems to be up to his daily tricks (even on the forum).

usmc_av8r

from THIS unbiased article on edmunds.com... it's a good article on invoice & profits....

"... the profit margin on a new car is much slimmer than you would assume. While other products are marked up by as much as 50 percent, cars only have a profit margin in the single digits — typically from 2 to 6 percent. This means that a car sold at 4 percent over an invoice of $20,000 would make $800 for the dealer on the actual sale (more on this later). If the salesperson makes a 10 percent commission on the profit, that's just $80 for him or her.

According to the National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA), new car sales generate only 25 percent of the profit for a dealership. Another 29 percent comes from the sales of used cars. But most of a dealership's money, 46 percent, is made on service and the sale of parts."

back on topic... I bought a Infiniti QX in TX last year and am thinking about pulling the trigger on a G37 sedan. Good info here, thanks to all for that info.

SF

kris301

New to the forum, is this list ranking dealerships with the best deals? Currently pricing out a lease for a G37xs.

graphicguy

sewellgsm....thanks so very much for "hosting" me during my visit. Hats off to Jeremy, too.

To those who are unaware, I live in SW OH, but travel to the DFW area quite often.

After viewing sewellgsm's posts here, and his references to being an Infiniti dealer in Dallas, I found myself with some free time and hunted down his dealership. Not too difficult. Sewell (the name of the dealership), Infiniti, "sewellgsm" (Sewell General Sales Manager), I didn't have to be a private detector to seek him out.

Bottom line, Sewell Ininiti is about 20 minutes from the DFW airport. Sewell has quite a few luxury dealerships in the area.....Infiniti and Cadillac stores being right next to each other.

I have to say, having visited many dealerships, both luxury and low-mid range, I'd rank Sewell Infiniti right at the top. Very professional, warm and inviting. Great selection to choose from, and a willingness to get whatever anyone wants.

I went in, just to put a "face to a name". Sewellgsm and his staff did more than that. I waked in, unannounced. An hour+ later, I learned more about color combos, features, options, functionality, performance, etc of a G37 than I ever hoped to learn.

The sales person mentioned earlier, Jeremy, was one of the most knowledgeable and easy to work with sales people I have ever encountered in 20+ years of buying new cars. He will continue, to do well in this field.

Just a big THANK YOU to Sewellgsm and his staff.....wonderful dealership, wonderful people. I just wish you were local to me.

As I mentioned to Jeremy, I'll visit again in the next few weeks when I'm out your way again.

sewellgsm

I think so

No, it is actually a list of the Top 5 dealerships by sales volume YTD for 2010. But, one would assume they must have good deals if they sell the most cars or at least have great service, etc.

plumekuss

Does anyone else think the splash guards cheapen the car? I looked at both today with and without and I think the guards detract from the lines of the car? Interested in what others think?

If an in stock car has the guards, are they easily removed or is a new vehicle needed?