Regular oil changes isn't the issue here. After a few days of driving in cold climates, and you should have colder conditions than myself, take your filler cap off and look. The filler tube will develop the yellowish foam and the cap will have condensation in it. From reading posting from those who are blessed to live in warm climates they don't have this problem because it appears to be caused from the cold air from the radiator passing over the filler tube that has the hot vapors on the inside and thus condensation. I don't know about you but I don't want the foam and water getting into my lubrication system, don't think oil and water mix very well.
Obviously the engineers at Chrysler need to come up with a solution.
I can't imagine why any company would offer a full-time xfer case with no 2WD position. The Jeep Selec-Trac xfer case has 4WD Lo, 4WD(open diff-fulltime), 4WD(locked diff-parttime), AND a 2WD position. Why couldn't Dodge have used this xfer case in the Dakotas? It's available in the Jeeps with the 4.7L V8.
I just don't know enough about the foaming issue. I understand the principle of the cold air outside causing the hot vapors inside to condense, but what is the material that is actually condensing? If it were water would we even see it - after all water is heavier than oil. I just don't know. But you are certainly right about the cold here - just below 0F here right now - about -18C.
I wasn't aware that Jeep offered a 2wd and a 4wd open position, I guess in Dakota DC wanted to offer a full time 4wd option - perhaps consumers aren't seeing enough difference between the standard part time option and the selec-trac to make it viable. I know that I am cynical, but I really believe that a lot of these systems are unnecessary gimmicks.
I do some pretty serious off roading in pretty bad weather - I am involved in sled dog racing. In that situation I am going to be locked in 4wd anyway. If I am on road then I am perfectly confident that I can make a judgement call between being in 4wd high range or 2wd. If conditions change then I can switch on the fly.
I can understand full time 4wd in two situations:
firstly if you have manual hubs and locking them is a real pain in the middle of a journey - then 4wd open is better than 2wd, though I'm not sure this combination exists in any present day car or truck.
secondly in quirky weather where black ice etc occurs without warning. Now this isn't a big deal to me - if I'm not sure what the road conditions are like then I shift to 4wd for potentially risky situations - bends, bridges, hills etc. If you would rather pay the extra purchase and maintenance costs of full time 4wd to avoid having to think about shidting then so be it - it just doesn't make sense to me.
Limited slip diff on the other hand is a must have as far as I'm concerned. I know some people feel that if you have 4wd it isn't so necessary and I can understand that point to some degree, but for the kind of driving I do I wouldn't even consider not having it, and already this year, even in 4wd and on road, it has kicked in a few times to make life easier.
Also included is a new Glasstite Targa topper and Bedrug carpet bed liner. The Glasstite is the best topper available and with the bedrug cost over $2000. This is a very attractive and functional setup. At first glance, it looks like a Durango.
This is an exceptional truck. I checked out all the competitors, including Toyota Tocoma and Nissan, nothing comes close. The V6 has plenty of pep - I find myself spinning the rear wheels without tyring. I'm only selling to get out of the payments. Have a family and didn't really need a truck. It is in new condition, no scratches or dents. Has never been through an automatic car wash.
Price: $13,500 (Invoice price is well over $15,000 and you get the $2000 topper for nothing). Fly in, drive home and save thousands in purchase price and taxes!
DO NOT GET IT This type of system is actually WORSE than 2WD with LSD.
Without getting into specifics, FULL-TIME 4WD (AS Defined on a Dodge Dakota) is just an added OPEN DIFFERENTIAL to the xfer case. This means that if ANY of the 4 wheels are on a slippery surface, it will spin (AND YOU ARE STUCK) One ends up putting it into 4WD lock anyway at this point!
I have a LOT of experience with this type of system. (My first vehicle contained such) One of the FRONT WHEELS is always the first to 'slip' and you immediately loose all steering control. Additionally, since the FRONT driveshaft is always turning too... there is a lot more to wear out. (Three "double-cardian" yolks on the front driveshaft replaced within the 1st 60K miles)
I even began to REMOVE the front driveshaft during the summer months and put the xfer case in 4WD lock. (Essentially turning it into a normal Rear Wheel Drive) to reduce wear-n-tear.
I'm interested in the new Dakota Quad but after reading about a few people having water in their oil I decided to check a new one at the dealer in Kansas City this past Friday. I asked the salesman if he had heard about it and he said no. He had one on the lot so we popped the hood and took a look. I removed the oil filler cap and water droplets were everywhere in the cap and in the funnel like filler neck. There's definitely a problem and I'm going to wait until I hear of a recall on this one. My neighbor has the ear of a factory person in Detroit and he said they've heard about it but he hadn't seen anything official yet. Even if they don't have a solution yet, I'd think they would issue a notice to owners in cold climates to keep an eye on it to prevent bearing wear and a possible shortened life of the engine. I hope Dodge does the right thing quickly as I do plan to purchase if they do.
I have ready many of the posting regarding water droplets forming on the oil fill cap. Like most of the you I feel that this isn't wonderful or desirable. I do wonder though, given that water boil's at 212'F, if this is truly something to worry about assuming that not much water drips back down the fill tube. I think that at engine operating temperature that the oil gets at least 212'F and the water should just vaporize. What is everyone else's thoughts on this?
Water only boils at 212'F at STP (Standard Temp and Pressure) Additionally this is for PURE H2O which is hard to come by anywhere naturally. (Basic Chemistry)
Of course, if one were to drive over an hour at each start-up of the engine, the worst of the moisture would be likely consumed by the PCV system as designed. (The oil-water emulsion is a consequential problem) I do not think ANY of us has the time/money to run the engine that long EACH time we fire it up. Besides, there are a number of reasons we see this condensation. I have said from the very start (Ref forum#1318 00 Dakota 4.7l) that this moisture is a normal byproduct of combustion (Basic chemistry again) and ALL internal combustion engines produce it. Unfortunately, in this particular engine it accumulates/condenses in the oil-fill-tube under certain conditions. Anyone who has removed the valve-covers from any engine running dinosour-oil has seen this sludge. This is one advantage of synthetic oils.... it does not emulsify with water nearly as well as dino-oil.
(bpeebles)- Actually some of us do drive an hour to work. I guess when my Quad arrives (late March I hope), I will use synthetic oil and I won't loose any sleep over this. Thanks for all the info on it. I plan on putting at least 200K miles on this truck, and I will do everything I can to keep the engine in top shape.
(andy_jordan) - Keep up the comments, I have been reading these sites for 4 months now, and I respect your input.
Wish me luck, I'm ordering my 2wd SLT Quad 4.7 5spd 3.55 lsd next week. As of last week none of my options were on restriction. So I'm targeting late March. At 94 miles a day, I'm waiting for the worst of Michigan's messy roads to dry up. I'm not worried about the snow, it's the salt. I couldn't stand to drive my new truck and get it dirty before I reach the end of my driveway :-(
OK OK Some people DO actually drive for more than hour on each startup. I barely have time to feel some HEAT from the vents before I get to work. (That INCLUDES using the factory block heater at night) As I write this, my outdoor thermometer reads -10F and I expect it to get colder by morning.... Burrrr
Do not get me started on ROAD-SALT...(A euphemistic term for the various sodium/calcium/urea mixtures they spread on the roads. )
I know just how you feel about driving on salt-coverd roads, My Peralesecent Blue 2000 Dakota is WHITE with road salt. Any attempt to wash it in these temperatures just loosens the bond between the paint and the base metal. The paint would begin to fall off in a few years. (Differences in expansion/contraction between paint/metal) I need the paint to hold the body together for when the road-salt begins to disintegrate the metal ;-)
An ol saying in Vermont speaks of not washing your car for fear of leaving holes in the body behind. (Do not wash off the rust, It may not pass inspection with holes in it;-) I have ridden in many 'Flintstone-mobiles' over the years here in Vt. Isn't that what rubber mats were made to cover up?
bpeebles - I too drive over an hour to work in my truck, but hopefully not for much longer. I also understand the salt issue - I feel like crying every time I see my truck right now.
Can I infer from your post regarding foaming, that one of the advantages of synthetic oil will be to reduce this foaming. I plan to switch to Mobil 1 at the next change anyway.
To anyone in Canada - anyone know where I can get a decent oil filter for my Dakota - I can get the Mobil 1 at WalMart but only AC Delco filters, and Crappy Tire is, well, Crappy Tire. The ones near us are also tiny with very limited range of stock.
(andy_jordan)I have not tried Synth-oil yet because I want to ensure a solid break-in and seating of the rings first.
I do have experience with MOBIL1 since it was introduced in 1976-1977 timeframe. It makes cold starts much more friendly to the mechanical workings of an internal combustion engine. I can also say that I have pulled valve cover from engines that have run only MOBIL1 since break-in. I could see my reflection on the underside of the valve-cover. (ABSOLUTELY NO SLUDGE) This is unheard of with dyno-oils.
Only real-time trials of synth-oil in the DC 4.7L will bear out the value in this situation. I suspect it will not reduce the condensation but it may reduce the so-called 'foam' (oil/water emulsion)
I cannot help with where you can get an oil filter for your DAK. The books may not even be updated for the 4.7L yet. (I would try looking up the 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee that used the same engine last year.) If you have not yet reviewed the following URL, you may be interested.
Thanks for all the informative posts on this site. I test drove a 4x4 4.7L V8 Quad the other day, then a few hours later drove my neighbor's brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee inline 6 Limited. The 6 in the Jeep is adequate, but only that. I was a little disappointed in the V8 in the Dakota. Is that truck pulling that much more weight than the Jeep Grand? It didn't scream like I expected. although it certainly would do the trick. I test drove a Tundra a week before and found the DOHC V8 the best I have ever seen in a truck. Mated with a 4-speed auto it was like driving a little Audi or something - super smooth and fast, even with the Tundra's 4x4 package. Unfortuantely, the Tundra's backseat is a joke and my girlfriend and family would bust me big-time for having to ride in that truck on trips up to Mammoth or down to Baja.
So, I'm seriously looking at the Dakota Quad. My question, aside from this wierd foaming issue (has anyone checked if the same problem has been flagged on the '99 Jeep Grand with the same engine?) is gas mileage and the shortbed. Anyone with a 4x4 4.7 V8 out there - what are you getting mpg city vs. highway after having driven broken in the truck? And has anyone used this bed extender? Does it bounce around off-road and does it secure cargo when extended? Finally, my girlfriend found the bucket seats on the Jeep Grand Cherokee uncomfortable - has anyone gotten the buckets on the dakota quad? How does they feel on long drives vs. the bench? thanks in advance! Keep up the great posts!
bpeebles, thanks a lot for the advice and the link.
asta, my 4x4 4.7 experience is with a club not a quad so bear that in mind. I love the performance of the V8, which rear end did you test drive - the 3.92 (which I have) will be quicker off the line than the stock 3.55. I also drive the standard which I am sure is going to give better performance than the auto - don't forget that the hp curve peaks over 4000 rpm.
My truck has around 7000km (4,400 miles) and I am getting between 16.5 and 18 mpg depending on city / highway mix and 4x4 usage. Bear in mind though that I live in rural Ontario, so city is a relative term.
I am not going to comment on the Tundra, my views and those of others are well and colorfully covered on other topics. I obviously can't comment on the quad bed.
I have the bucket seats and find them very comfortable over prolonged drives - I'm not sure if they are the same as in the Grand Cherokee. I know some people have found the lumbar support to be a little too much. My wife has had back problems in the past and she also finds them comfortable. I guess it really comes down to personal preference, if you can take an extended test drive in both you should get a better idea of what suits your situation.
Howdy folks, Say, I have a dakota cc, 4x4 with a 4.7 manual. Something is happening that seems a little odd. When I am taveling at highway speeds for awhile and then push in the clutch to coast, the engine seems to bounce up and down from 500rpm to 1100 rpm 3 or 4 times. Just wondering if anyone has had the same experience and/or if you have had this checked out.? I live in Wisconsin where the weather can be a little cold...if that may have anything to do with it. I look forward to your responses... BK.
I have noticed something similar - if I drop the clutch to change or when coming to a stop the revs don't necessarily drop to idle speed, stay around 1100.
I am guessing here, but I believe that it may be to do with the engine management. The 4.7 does not have a throttle cable - throttle management is fly by wire. All you are doing by stomping on the gas pedal is giving an instruction to the computer to accelerate. Now if we extend that logic further it makes sense that the computer will control engine speed if the clutch is depressed whilst the truck is moving because logic says that the engine will soon be re-engaged, probably in a different gear. By idling in that situation at higher revs there is a smaller rev adjustment when the gear is engaged, and hence less wear and tear.
As I say I have no proof to back this thought up, but the logic makes sense, at least to me.
I have a 1991 Dakota (since new) with extended cab, 3.9 6 cyl, 2wd, automatic w/od. 76000 miles with one repair: oxygen sensor gave up at 71000. Otherwise everything else is original. I don't see to many of 91, neither on the road or in the news papers, any reason for this? Did they all fall apart?
Say, thanks for the response. It sounds like yours is staying at the same rpm instead of fluctuating. Your theory makes sense if it were to stay at the same rpm (like yours is), but mine is bouncing up and down. While I'm coasting, it will go as low as 500 rpm, which will make the lights dim for a moment and then bounce back up to around 1100, and then down again, and then up again, etc. Any other ideas....let me know. Thanks, BK
Yes mine is fairly stable, only time the revs drop below normal idle is if I engage the clutch slightly before putting enough revs on - that's what you'ld expect. Can't really think what your problem is unless the computer is slightly off in measuring whether clutch is fully disengaged. Hell its a new truck take it in - you should at least document the problem. I will try and recreate your scenario on the way home tonight and let you know.
I recently purchased a Quad Cab 4.7/V8,HD towing package,anti-slip rear axle with a 3.55 rear end. I admit that I didn't put a lot of thought into the 3.55 vs 3.92. I will be towing a boat that should be less than 4000 lbs(as well as a family of 5). The window sticker claimed a trailer weight towing capacity of 4,800. The terrain will have some mild to moderate hills. From reading all the posts it sounds like I made a mistake in not getting the 3.92. What would be the approximate cost to change it to the 3.92 and what is involved? Thanks for any advice you might have. P.S. I don't have a boat yet so I can't check it out first hand.
congratulations on your quad, i have the same thing, not sure if yours is auto or standard but mine is auto with the 3.92. also not sure if you have the heavy duty cooling option also like mine does, my sticker says towing on mine is 6100lbs and my boat is a 20' walkaround at 3100lbs and a galvanized trailor at 900lbs with surge brakes, i carry 90 gallons of fuel at approximatly 5lbs per gallon thats 450lbs and that adds up to about about 4450lbs plus misc items on the boat and my truck accelerates alittle slower when towing but not much to really mention. i use to pull with a v6 dakota that had a towing of 5000lbs, and it pulled ok but i can tell a huge difference in the towing. i think if you end up close to your limit on towing like i was on my v6 dakota, you will still be happy considering the 4.7 v8 way out does the v6. as for how much it will cost to change out the gears, i wouldnt worry about that until you get your boat and see how it does but only if you also have the heavy duty cooling. and just to let you know a full towing package setup with all the extras with the 3.92 rear and the 4.7 is 6100lbs, with the 5.9 it is 6300lbs.
good luck and i hope you enjoy yours as much as i have enjoyed mine.
Thanks Robert for the quick and helpful response!! Actually, I realized that I forgot to mention that the truck does have an automatic trani so I went back to the computer to enter this and I pleasantly found your helpful reply! Thanks! It does indeed have the heavy duty cooling pkg. I have had my truck for 2 days and I absolutely love it! Thanks again!
Alex, I have a 91 Dodge Dakota V-8 with 100,000 miles on it. It hasn't fallen apart yet! Maybe the reason you don't see any for sale is the owners all want to keep them!!!
(bkteach) I have the very same 'problem'... the idle speed 'hunts' while the vehicle is moving but will 'lock' into a normal idle as soon as the ground-speed is 0.0MPH (Clutch disengaged entire time)
I have even lodged a 'complaint' with my dealer (They found nothing wrong!) and have experimented with it myself. I have found that if I disengauge the clutch and 'coast' down a long (1 or 2 miles @ 40-50 MPH) hill, the Idle speed will eventually settle-in to around 1K RPM. (BTW that equates to ~40MPH in 5th gear)I have also scrutinized the shop manual for possible explanations.
According to the book we have the following; 1)The electronic idle control is constantly 'learning' how to idle.(This compensates for weather and road conditions) 2)There is no 'clutch depressed' signal to the computer.(This is the VERY FIRST TIME this engine has ever been available with a manual xmission) 3)The ground-speed signal DOES go to the computer.
My theory is this...
The computer 'learns' how to idle while decelerating with the clutch engaged. (AND ground speed >0.0 MPH)
When we present very different conditions to the computer by depressing the clutch while coasting. The computer is 'confused' for a while because it did not have to open the throttle at all when the clutch was engaged.
Thus... the idle speed drops very low (lights dim) and then shoots up... over and over until the learning process catches up again.
If it were my design... I would add a 'clutch depressed' signal to the engine computer, this would add a very important variable to the decision-making process within the computer.
I forgot to mention that I have had the engine stall a few times due to this 'problem'. It always has happened during slow maneuvering when the clutch is being engauged/dis-engauged. (Such as moving up in traffic a few car-lengths or backing into a tight spot. I have even had it stall coming off of the interstate while slowing to a stop at the end of the off-ramp.
At first I thought I was the problem by way of my 'clutching' but I am now convinced otherwise. As soon as the vehicle is moving and I push the clutch... the idle drops very low for a moment and if I happen to be 'feathering' the clutch... It stalls due to lack of torque at that very low idle speed.
I have changed my driving-habits due to this 'problem' and now tend to rev the engine much more than I would like during slow maneuvers.
(Before anyone asks...I have been using a clutch for over 20 years and NEVER had to do this before.)
I got the SDF42 oil filter from www.amsoil.com It is the one made for this engine. It fits the 3.9 L v6 also. It is about the best filter made. Also, I use the Amsoil 5w-30 oil and there is little foaming present.
I have a 99 dakota club with 318 5-sp. I've experienced the fluctuating idle speed under the same circumstances previously stated. Although it has never stalled on me, I found this phenomenon to be quite annoying. Instinctively, I attributed this to break-in funk. I have 11,000 on it now and have not experienced this problem for a couple thousand miles, so I've declared it unofficially fixed.
OK - so I tried the clutch trick last night and my revs were fairly stable at around 1000 - 1100.
bpeebles, makes a lot of sense - you have the shop manual so I defer. I too have had the stall problem when feathering the clutch - especially when close maneuvering - say reversing into a tight parking space. I want to keep my revs low because of the slippery conditions here at the moment. I have noticed an improvement so I guess the computer is 'learning' my driving style. I have driven standards all my driving life, including a small amount of road racing, and am fairly confident I know how to practice good clutch control.
Towing with the 3.55. Sure the 3.92 would have been able to tow more, but I wouldn't worry too much with a 4000lb boat. That equates to about a 23' cuddy loaded with gas, water and equipment - may be a little higher with the trailer. Even so you should be under the 4,800 limit. As a general rule I try and use no more than 80% of towing capacity on a regular basis, but I think that is overkill. You will still be under the limit - which I am sure is lower than the real limit to ensure DC's rear end is covered. You will notice sluggish performance off the line, but is that a big deal? I would only be nervous with your set up if I had the boat behind me 90%+ of the time.
Thanks for the response. What your saying makes a lot of sense. One thing that I forgot to mention is that it doesn't seem to have this "hunting" problem when it is cold. This may be due to the fact that the choke is partially closed until the engine is warmed up a bit. I have to say that this puts my mind at rest knowing that someone else has experienced the same thing. Let's hope this cures itself after a few thousand miles. Regards, Bk
You say this "hunting" seemed to cure itself after about 9000 miles. I'm just wondering if there are any others that have experienced this same thing and have had the truck cure itself of the problem.
I am now at 7,000km - 4500 miles or so, and I don't have the problem as I mentioned. I don't know if I ever did - I didn't notice, but you shouldn't have to wait 9000 miles unless you spend a long time at highway speeds - and therefore with few shifts.
Hello everyone. After ordering my 2000 Dakota Club Cab 4x4 October 3rd, I picked it up December 29th. It's been 1000 miles, and it has been well worth the wait. One problem might have surfaced, but I'm not sure. I in no way am a mechanic, so I'm checking what others might say. After the last two day snow storm, I parked my truck in the driveway at night, then moved it the next morning to clear snow. Under were the truck was, I noticed drippings that were a lighter brown in color. It seem to be from the middle-back area of the underside. Any diagnosis? Thanks
After I drive in two days of snow, my garage floor is covered in brown spots. I just get the shovel and broom out and clean the floor. Your problem might be different than mine. Sorry if this didn't help.
Can't remember if it was this forum or not, but someone said their Dakota, and all the ones on the dealer's lot they bought it from, where leaking tranny fluid. Front trans seal if I remember right. The brown may be tranny fluid mixed with road salt or some other scum from the undercarriage. Haven't seen any other posts regarding the problem until yours.
Glad your truck came. I ordered a 4x4 Quad on 11/23 and I'm still waiting.
The wife just emailed me. She said she was shoveling up the driveway better before I got home last night, and she noticed the spots in the snow too. She said they were more of a yellow? and they came from the rear axle area. Thanks for the responses!
It might be nothing - but it might be worth getting it checked out. I have no idea what color the fluid in the rear differential is - but that is in the middle of the truck on the rear axle. Better safe than sorry metallian!!
Don't quote me, but I believe that the only settings that don't use the compressor are the half feet / half head setting and the full feet setting.
The logic behind this is that the compressor runs whenever the air conditioner is on (obviously) and whenever air is being directed towards the windscreen, (dehumidifier function).
Andy is right on. As I posted on another thread, here are is a little more specific info on this issue for my 98 Dak, but when I test drove a 2000 quad, the controls looked the same.
Off the following modes: heat - floor only heat - vent only
On the following modes: heat - floor/defrost heat - defrost only A/C - Max A/C - floor/vent A/C - vent only
I use the term "heat" only to differentiate between A/C on and A/C off since even in "heat" mode, the temperature dial can be turned to the coolest setting and be blowing fresh unheated outside air. I suppose I should have used the term "non-A/C mode" rather than heat, but you get the idea.
Rear diff fluid is kind of a honey color if I rememeber right from my racing days. If that's it and it's in the middle of the truck, not by the wheels, it's probably just a bad gasket on the diff cover. Still, get it checked out.
I currently have a 97 Dakota SLT club cab and love it. However it seems to be making new noises, which are coming from the drive train. So like a spoiled brat, I went out and ordered a 2000 Club cab SLT with the plus option and all the trimings. (4.7L auto, Trailer package, CD/TAPE player, limited slip, rear sliding window, and fog lamps) After discovering this great sight, which has taught me alot, I have a few questions. I ordered it 1/3/00, expected del date is 2/10/00. I have read that there is a delay with the Limited Slip diff. Does that apply to all dakotas? It did not seem to effect the speed of delivery for me (Unless they lied). How is the multi-speed trany record for 2 wheel drive (I heard problems only with 4x4 transfer cases)? If the multi-speed proves to be strong I will be 100% happy. My current truck is the first vehicle that never developed any squeeks or rattles...and that sold me....now if Dodge would just consentrate on drive trains...they might just beat a Toyota. What about gas milage for the 4.7 auto. My 3.9 get 17 MPG Period!!
I also forgot to mention, I paid cost plus that advertising fee (450 minus 200 for my bitching=250 above invoice plus a year service contract for free) I think I'll be a farmer next time!
ordered my QC on 12/6, being built now, maybe even finished. I noticed that a lot of you are ordering limited slip differential. I'm kicking myself for not ordering the limited slip. What are the advantages of having lsd for a 2wd? Can lsd be added later? Planning on towing small trailer, family of four and all the gear.
Maybe I'm better off since lsd seems to be on restriction right now.
(clawlor) Did you order the 4.7L? When I ordered, the dealers computer automatically added the LSD when the 4.7L + 5SP manual was selected. (CANNOT de-select LSD with 4.7L +5SP)
If you are considering the brand new 4SP automatic. You should be interested in reading up on the Jeep Grand Cherokee that had this combination last year (1999 model year). There have been many concerns about the 4SP auto. brought up in the JGC forums. Some of the problems were 'programmed out' of the xmissions by updating the shift algorithm within the xmission computer. (These problems have been coming back after awhile)
Comments
Bookitty
Obviously the engineers at Chrysler need to come up with a solution.
Jeep Selec-Trac xfer case has 4WD Lo, 4WD(open diff-fulltime), 4WD(locked diff-parttime), AND
a 2WD position. Why couldn't Dodge have used this
xfer case in the Dakotas? It's available in the Jeeps with the 4.7L V8.
I wasn't aware that Jeep offered a 2wd and a 4wd open position, I guess in Dakota DC wanted to offer a full time 4wd option - perhaps consumers aren't seeing enough difference between the standard part time option and the selec-trac to make it viable. I know that I am cynical, but I really believe that a lot of these systems are unnecessary gimmicks.
part-time 4WD and the limited-slip rear end.
I can understand full time 4wd in two situations:
firstly if you have manual hubs and locking them is a real pain in the middle of a journey - then 4wd open is better than 2wd, though I'm not sure this combination exists in any present day car or truck.
secondly in quirky weather where black ice etc occurs without warning. Now this isn't a big deal to me - if I'm not sure what the road conditions are like then I shift to 4wd for potentially risky situations - bends, bridges, hills etc. If you would rather pay the extra purchase and maintenance costs of full time 4wd to avoid having to think about shidting then so be it - it just doesn't make sense to me.
Limited slip diff on the other hand is a must have as far as I'm concerned. I know some people feel that if you have 4wd it isn't so necessary and I can understand that point to some degree, but for the kind of driving I do I wouldn't even consider not having it, and already this year, even in 4wd and on road, it has kicked in a few times to make life easier.
-Curt
Sport Package (40/20/40 bench, Aluminum Wheels).
Tire & Handling Group.
Cruise Control & Tilt Wheel.
3.55 Axle Ratio.
Anti-Spin (Limited Slip) Differential.
3.9L Engine.
Air Conditioning.
22 Gallon Fuel Tank.
Sliding glass window.
Also included is a new Glasstite Targa topper and Bedrug carpet bed liner. The Glasstite is the best topper available and with the bedrug cost over $2000. This is a very attractive and functional setup. At first glance, it looks like a Durango.
This is an exceptional truck. I checked out all the competitors, including Toyota Tocoma and Nissan, nothing comes close. The V6 has plenty of pep - I find myself spinning the rear wheels without tyring. I'm only selling to get out of the payments. Have a family and didn't really need a truck. It is in new condition, no scratches or dents. Has never been through an automatic car wash.
Price: $13,500 (Invoice price is well over $15,000 and you get the $2000 topper for nothing). Fly in, drive home and save thousands in purchase price and taxes!
Contact: markd@inebraska.com
This type of system is actually WORSE than
2WD with LSD.
Without getting into specifics, FULL-TIME 4WD (AS Defined on a Dodge Dakota) is just an added OPEN DIFFERENTIAL to the xfer case. This means that if ANY of the 4 wheels are on a slippery surface, it will spin (AND YOU ARE STUCK) One ends up putting it into 4WD lock anyway at this point!
I have a LOT of experience with this type of system. (My first vehicle contained such) One of the FRONT WHEELS is always the first to 'slip' and you immediately loose all steering control.
Additionally, since the FRONT driveshaft is always turning too... there is a lot more to wear out. (Three "double-cardian" yolks on the front driveshaft replaced within the 1st 60K miles)
I even began to REMOVE the front driveshaft during the summer months and put the xfer case in 4WD lock. (Essentially turning it into a normal Rear Wheel Drive) to reduce wear-n-tear.
I hope Dodge does the right thing quickly as I do plan to purchase if they do.
Of course, if one were to drive over an hour at each start-up of the engine, the worst of the moisture would be likely consumed by the PCV system as designed. (The oil-water emulsion is a consequential problem)
I do not think ANY of us has the time/money to run the engine that long EACH time we fire it up. Besides, there are a number of reasons we see this condensation.
I have said from the very start (Ref forum#1318 00 Dakota 4.7l) that this moisture is a normal byproduct of combustion (Basic chemistry again) and ALL internal combustion engines produce it. Unfortunately, in this particular engine it accumulates/condenses in the oil-fill-tube under certain conditions. Anyone who has removed the valve-covers from any engine running dinosour-oil has seen this sludge.
This is one advantage of synthetic oils.... it does not emulsify with water nearly as well as dino-oil.
This condensation is a CONCERN not a PROBLEM!!
Thanks for all the info on it. I plan on putting at least 200K miles on this truck, and I will do everything I can to keep the engine in top shape.
(andy_jordan) - Keep up the comments, I have been reading these sites for 4 months now, and I respect your input.
Wish me luck, I'm ordering my 2wd SLT Quad 4.7 5spd 3.55 lsd next week. As of last week none of my options were on restriction. So I'm targeting late March. At 94 miles a day, I'm waiting for the worst of Michigan's messy roads to dry up. I'm not worried about the snow, it's the salt. I couldn't stand to drive my new truck and get it dirty before I reach the end of my driveway :-(
(That INCLUDES using the factory block heater at night) As I write this, my outdoor thermometer reads -10F and I expect it to get colder by morning.... Burrrr
Do not get me started on ROAD-SALT...(A euphemistic term for the various sodium/calcium/urea mixtures they spread on the roads. )
I know just how you feel about driving on salt-coverd roads, My Peralesecent Blue 2000 Dakota is WHITE with road salt. Any attempt to wash it in these temperatures just loosens the bond between the paint and the base metal. The paint would begin to fall off in a few years. (Differences in expansion/contraction between paint/metal)
I need the paint to hold the body together for when the road-salt begins to disintegrate the metal ;-)
An ol saying in Vermont speaks of not washing your car for fear of leaving holes in the body behind. (Do not wash off the rust, It may not pass inspection with holes in it;-) I have ridden in many 'Flintstone-mobiles' over the years here in Vt. Isn't that what rubber mats were made to cover up?
bpeebles - I too drive over an hour to work in my truck, but hopefully not for much longer. I also understand the salt issue - I feel like crying every time I see my truck right now.
Can I infer from your post regarding foaming, that one of the advantages of synthetic oil will be to reduce this foaming. I plan to switch to Mobil 1 at the next change anyway.
To anyone in Canada - anyone know where I can get a decent oil filter for my Dakota - I can get the Mobil 1 at WalMart but only AC Delco filters, and Crappy Tire is, well, Crappy Tire. The ones near us are also tiny with very limited range of stock.
I do have experience with MOBIL1 since it was introduced in 1976-1977 timeframe. It makes cold starts much more friendly to the mechanical workings of an internal combustion engine. I can also say that I have pulled valve cover from engines that have run only MOBIL1 since break-in. I could see my reflection on the underside of the valve-cover. (ABSOLUTELY NO SLUDGE) This is unheard of with dyno-oils.
Only real-time trials of synth-oil in the DC 4.7L will bear out the value in this situation. I suspect it will not reduce the condensation but it may reduce the so-called 'foam' (oil/water emulsion)
I cannot help with where you can get an oil filter for your DAK. The books may not even be updated for the 4.7L yet. (I would try looking up the 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee that used the same engine last year.) If you have not yet reviewed the following URL, you may be interested.
http://minimopar.simplenet.com/oilfilters.html
So, I'm seriously looking at the Dakota Quad. My question, aside from this wierd foaming issue (has anyone checked if the same problem has been flagged on the '99 Jeep Grand with the same engine?) is gas mileage and the shortbed. Anyone with a 4x4 4.7 V8 out there - what are you getting mpg city vs. highway after having driven broken in the truck? And has anyone used this bed extender? Does it bounce around off-road and does it secure cargo when extended? Finally, my girlfriend found the bucket seats on the Jeep Grand Cherokee uncomfortable - has anyone gotten the buckets on the dakota quad? How does they feel on long drives vs. the bench? thanks in advance! Keep up the great posts!
asta, my 4x4 4.7 experience is with a club not a quad so bear that in mind. I love the performance of the V8, which rear end did you test drive - the 3.92 (which I have) will be quicker off the line than the stock 3.55. I also drive the standard which I am sure is going to give better performance than the auto - don't forget that the hp curve peaks over 4000 rpm.
My truck has around 7000km (4,400 miles) and I am getting between 16.5 and 18 mpg depending on city / highway mix and 4x4 usage. Bear in mind though that I live in rural Ontario, so city is a relative term.
I am not going to comment on the Tundra, my views and those of others are well and colorfully covered on other topics. I obviously can't comment on the quad bed.
I have the bucket seats and find them very comfortable over prolonged drives - I'm not sure if they are the same as in the Grand Cherokee. I know some people have found the lumbar support to be a little too much. My wife has had back problems in the past and she also finds them comfortable. I guess it really comes down to personal preference, if you can take an extended test drive in both you should get a better idea of what suits your situation.
Say, I have a dakota cc, 4x4 with a 4.7 manual. Something is happening that seems a little odd. When I am taveling at highway speeds for awhile and then push in the clutch to coast, the engine seems to bounce up and down from 500rpm to 1100 rpm 3 or 4 times.
Just wondering if anyone has had the same experience and/or if you have had this checked out.?
I live in Wisconsin where the weather can be a little cold...if that may have anything to do with it.
I look forward to your responses...
BK.
I am guessing here, but I believe that it may be to do with the engine management. The 4.7 does not have a throttle cable - throttle management is fly by wire. All you are doing by stomping on the gas pedal is giving an instruction to the computer to accelerate. Now if we extend that logic further it makes sense that the computer will control engine speed if the clutch is depressed whilst the truck is moving because logic says that the engine will soon be re-engaged, probably in a different gear. By idling in that situation at higher revs there is a smaller rev adjustment when the gear is engaged, and hence less wear and tear.
As I say I have no proof to back this thought up, but the logic makes sense, at least to me.
Thanks, BK
good luck and i hope you enjoy yours as much as i have enjoyed mine.
robert
(i now have 4500 miles in just over a month)
Actually, I realized that I forgot to mention that the truck does have an automatic trani so I went back to the computer to enter this and I pleasantly found your helpful reply! Thanks!
It does indeed have the heavy duty cooling pkg. I have had my truck for 2 days and I absolutely love it!
Thanks again!
I have even lodged a 'complaint' with my dealer (They found nothing wrong!) and have experimented with it myself. I have found that if I disengauge the clutch and 'coast' down a long (1 or 2 miles @ 40-50 MPH) hill, the Idle speed will eventually settle-in to around 1K RPM. (BTW that equates to ~40MPH in 5th gear)I have also scrutinized the shop manual for possible explanations.
According to the book we have the following;
1)The electronic idle control is constantly
'learning' how to idle.(This compensates for weather and road conditions)
2)There is no 'clutch depressed' signal to the computer.(This is the VERY FIRST TIME this engine has ever been available with a manual xmission)
3)The ground-speed signal DOES go to the computer.
My theory is this...
The computer 'learns' how to idle while decelerating with the clutch engaged. (AND ground speed >0.0 MPH)
When we present very different conditions to the computer by depressing the clutch while coasting. The computer is 'confused' for a while because it did not have to open the throttle at all when the clutch was engaged.
Thus... the idle speed drops very low (lights dim)
and then shoots up... over and over until the learning process catches up again.
If it were my design... I would add a 'clutch depressed' signal to the engine computer, this would add a very important variable to the decision-making process within the computer.
At first I thought I was the problem by way of my 'clutching' but I am now convinced otherwise.
As soon as the vehicle is moving and I push the clutch... the idle drops very low for a moment and if I happen to be 'feathering' the clutch... It stalls due to lack of torque at that very low idle speed.
I have changed my driving-habits due to this 'problem' and now tend to rev the engine much more than I would like during slow maneuvers.
(Before anyone asks...I have been using a clutch for over 20 years and NEVER had to do this before.)
bpeebles, makes a lot of sense - you have the shop manual so I defer. I too have had the stall problem when feathering the clutch - especially when close maneuvering - say reversing into a tight parking space. I want to keep my revs low because of the slippery conditions here at the moment. I have noticed an improvement so I guess the computer is 'learning' my driving style. I have driven standards all my driving life, including a small amount of road racing, and am fairly confident I know how to practice good clutch control.
Towing with the 3.55. Sure the 3.92 would have been able to tow more, but I wouldn't worry too much with a 4000lb boat. That equates to about a 23' cuddy loaded with gas, water and equipment - may be a little higher with the trailer. Even so you should be under the 4,800 limit. As a general rule I try and use no more than 80% of towing capacity on a regular basis, but I think that is overkill. You will still be under the limit - which I am sure is lower than the real limit to ensure DC's rear end is covered. You will notice sluggish performance off the line, but is that a big deal? I would only be nervous with your set up if I had the boat behind me 90%+ of the time.
Regards,
Bk
Glad your truck came. I ordered a 4x4 Quad on 11/23 and I'm still waiting.
The wife just emailed me. She said she was shoveling up the driveway better before I got home last night, and she noticed the spots in the snow too. She said they were more of a yellow? and they came from the rear axle area. Thanks for the responses!
Andy: I'm taking it in tomorrow at 7:30am for a look see. Your're right -- better safe than sorry. I'll have to get my beauty sleep some other time.
Andy: I'm taking it in tomorrow at 7:30am for a look see. Your're right -- better safe than sorry. I'll have to get my beauty sleep some other time.
The logic behind this is that the compressor runs whenever the air conditioner is on (obviously) and whenever air is being directed towards the windscreen, (dehumidifier function).
Off the following modes:
heat - floor only
heat - vent only
On the following modes:
heat - floor/defrost
heat - defrost only
A/C - Max
A/C - floor/vent
A/C - vent only
I use the term "heat" only to differentiate between A/C on and A/C off since even in "heat" mode, the temperature dial can be turned to the coolest setting and be blowing fresh unheated outside air. I suppose I should have used the term "non-A/C mode" rather than heat, but you get the idea.
Chad
How is the multi-speed trany record for 2 wheel drive (I heard problems only with 4x4 transfer cases)? If the multi-speed proves to be strong I will be 100% happy. My current truck is the first vehicle that never developed any squeeks or rattles...and that sold me....now if Dodge would just consentrate on drive trains...they might just beat a Toyota.
What about gas milage for the 4.7 auto. My 3.9 get 17 MPG Period!!
Can't wait to hear that V8!!
Maybe I'm better off since lsd seems to be on restriction right now.
Chris
If you are considering the brand new 4SP automatic. You should be interested in reading up on the Jeep Grand Cherokee that had this combination last year (1999 model year). There have been many concerns about the 4SP auto. brought up in the JGC forums. Some of the problems were 'programmed out' of the xmissions by updating the shift algorithm within the xmission computer. (These problems have been coming back after awhile)