Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

lucien2

But I was not taking chances with my own inexperience. I'd heat it for 20 seconds, then rap on the general area with a hammer to help loosen it up, then wrench on it a bit. Lather, rinse, repeat. I suppose I should have hit it with higher heat, but since I'd never used a torch before, I decided to go slow.

Luckily the WD40 was in a small, concentrated area. It went out very, very quickly, so I never felt truly alarmed.

nygreg

when you say "lather", I am assuming you hit it with more WD40. Is this correct? Heat alone should work, no?
BTW - did you put some antiseize compound on the threads before reassembly?

Greg

lucien2

heh heh no no that was a just a joke that clearly didn't work...you know how shampoo bottles always tell you to wash your hair twice so you'll use more? I just meant I repeated that procedure a couple of times

dcab

Four weeks ago I brought in our '03 Forester to our dealer because there was a slow fluid leak. The 3/36 warranty will last until next July as we only have 18000 miles on it.

I was told that the transmission fluid level was too high and that it was leaking out the vent and that some transmission fluid was removed to bring it down to the proper level. The service manager indicated that recent hot weather may have caused this to occur. My repair order only states "found tranmission fluid coming out vent." On the MySubaru website the service history states "Warranty: No Defect Found."

Now the leak has returned. Looking under the car this evening, I found what my wife describes as chewing gum (some sort of pink or orange sealer) applied around the joint of the two pieces of metal that make up what I believe is the transmission pan. A reddish liquid is leaking through the sealer in the middle of the rear part of the pan.

No mention of applying this sealer was made to me last month. (I took a picture of it with my digital camera and wish I knew how to post the image here). My neighbor has an 04 Forester and we checked his out and he doesn't have this sealer so I don't believe that this was applied at the factory (besides I would have noticed it last month).

So what do you think? Is this a proper repair? Why wasn't it mentioned to me and put on the receipt? How would you handle it?

Thanks in advance from a longtime reader, sometimes poster and owner of two Subarus (I get to drive the 97 Outback!)

tim3

I know you guys have probably covered this before, but would you mind touching on this topic again for a first timer to the board? We've got an 04 Forester with a 5-speed and the hill-holder clutch is driving us a little crazy. Will we ever get used to it? Can it be adjusted? We've had the car six weeks and put 2,900 miles on it so I thought by now we would be used to it, but no. Actually, I do a little better than my wife simply because I drive it much more, but it's still maddening at times. What can we do?

Problem #2: The car will often hesitate for a just second (actually it feels more like I just barely tapped the brakes) at almost any speed. It does this all the time under any condition. Has anyone else experienced such a problem?

I had dealer check both issues during the first week we had it. They said everything was fine and suggested, probably rightfully, that we might want to break it in and get used to it first.

Thanks in advance.

Tim

rob_m

I had the hill-holder clutch on my 92 Loyale wagon and loved it. Over time you will forget it's there. The only issue I ever had was backing it down a hill. The brakes and clutch seemed to be fighting against each other. I would just throw it in neutral, let off the clutch and roll down the hill. Rob M.

p0926

Tim- What specifically is it about the hill-holder that's bothering you? But in answer to your question, yes it can be adjusted fairly easily (even to the point where it will no longer engage). I think that there have been a couple of instances where the HH wasn't adjusted correctly at the factory and was too sensitive so that might be your problem. FYI, I was extremely skeptical of the HH when it first came out but now I think it's great. To be able to stop on any grade hill and then forget about the brake is really kinda cool.

Re problem #2, when are you experiencing the hesitation? Right after shifting?

-Frank

fibber2

is a product called Kroil (sp?). Incredible penetrant.

Steve

nygreg

OK, I feel stupid. :-()

BTW, since my hair is disappearing quickly I am using less and less shampoo. Thanks for reminding me.

Greg

once_for_all

seems to come from the factory "tight" and loosens up. After 22k, it works just right for me---on a hill, it doesn't completely hold the vehicle but allows it to slowly roll back. It is easier to disengage, and more in the background, when it is loose.

I expect there will be a day when I need to tighten it up to restore performance.

22k, last tank of gas 27.4 mpg with 50% AC, 80% highway.

John

edunnett

dcab - The pink sealer your wife saw is the sealant that the dealer used to re-seal the transmission. When I had transmission work done on my car I found the same stuff as well. The dealer probably found the leak you describe externally but then to make sure the transmission and gears were healthy had to open up the transmission. I think that sounds perfectly acceptable and I would be upset if they DIDN'T really look around in there to make sure things were ok. However, the fact that it is leaking now is NOT acceptable. Get back to the closest dealer ASAP before you are left with no transmission fluid. Good thing that one of you was able to spot that.
-Elissa

tim3

My biggest complaint about the hill holder is that it engages when I least need it, like waiting in the middle of an intersection to make a left turn. When there is a break in traffic, I'll try to go but the car doesn't want to move for a few seconds because the brakes are on. Then the hill holder disengages and the car shoots forward. Backing up can sometimes be tricky too. I live in Salt Lake City and we have enough hills here that I'm sure it will prove its worth, I just wish it wasn't quite so touchy. But as everyone has suggested perhaps it will loosen up over time. The miles we've put on it so far as been mostly highway anyway. Is the adjustment something I can do myself? As for the hesitation, it occurs mostly when I'm driving at a steady rate of speed.

Thanks again, Tim

ateixeira

I thought it was only supposed to engage if you were facing uphill. Maybe have it checked/adjusted.

-juice

samiam_68

The Hill Holder is adjustable. Should take a COMPETENT dealer about 5 minutes to adjust. I had mine adjusted because it was driving me nuts. Now, it works beautifully.

If the dealer tells you a BS story about waiting for break-in, insist on having them do the work, or go to a different dealer. And remember, this is a warranty item (all initial adjustments are).

edunnett

VTCLEO - Can you give the name of the dealer so that the rest of us can avoid them? No personal names or telephone numbers - just the name of the business? And what are the problems that they can't fix? Is your car still under warranty or can you just find a reputable mechanic that's local to you for non-warranty repairs? I'm a chick too and it's repair shops like your dealer that have forced me to learn how to change my own oil, coolant, spark plugs, differential and transmission fluids, brake pads and rotors, radios, filters and valves of all sorts... Sometimes it is better to learn how to do that stuff so you know when someone is BS'ing you.

I actually got very lucky with my dealer. They happen to be the longest standing Stellar dealer in California and I've always been delighted with them - Carlsen Subaru in Redwood City - I am even going to get them a round of bagels or something next time I stop in to thank them for all the free warranty work and advice they've given me.
-elissa

oselles

I own a 2001 Outback and brought it in this week for its 30k service. I was bit nervous as the clutch, which only shuddered on cold winter mornings, has started to do so in mid-July. My wife and I both know how to play with the clutch to avoid the noise somewhat, but it can be quite bad. In the end, I was told the clutch was fine and that the shudders were just a "Subaru thing" and to get rid of the problem the only solution would be to replace it at my cost (400 for the kit plus 6 hours labor).

Now I like my dealer a lot (they fixed for free the worn front brake pads as a "goodwill" repair) and the car runs very well, but it seems, from a search of similar posts on this site, that clutch shudder is not an isolated problem. My question is--what do you need to do to get Subaru to accept this problem as a probable defect?

ateixeira

It's surface rust on the pressure plate.

Slip the clutch a bit to shed that layer and it should get smoother.

-juice

barbsee

still lovin' my 2000 outback sedan. the conversation about "hill holder clutch" just got me--does it have any affect on my auto tranny? Also, can one of you brilliant car freaks tell me in a simple to understand thumbnail sketch just how does my 4 wheel dr relate to my automatic transmission? do i ever have to relate to it, or is it subaru magically taking care of me behind the scenes? I've had a few comments about 4wheel dr being more expensive to maintain, but haven't had any real experience with it yet--if it's safer, it can be worth it in one avoided accident. thanks for your time~

edunnett

I know someone who had very bad clutch chatter in her '01 forester and made repeated trips to the dealer. They eventually replaced her flywheel (I think) with an upgraded one that made all the difference in the world. I had an '01 Forester with slight clutch chatter, the dealer could never reproduce it (of course) but it didn't bother me enough to make a fit and I would just slip the clutch a bit like juice says.

ateixeira

barbsee: it's transparent to the user. The system is sealed and completely maintenance-free.

The only thing extra maintenance you'll have to do is change the rear differential oil, and that's easier than an oil change, basically, plus it only needs to be done every 30k miles even on the severe duty schedule (otherwise only every 60k miles).

-juice

edunnett

1) hill holder clutch only refers to the manual transmission. and then only in certain years/models.

2) automatic transmission controls the distribution of power to the four wheels, you need not do anything. in normal driving when nothing is slipping, you get 80-90% of the power going to the front wheels and 10-20% of the power going to the rear. when you slip, the car attempts to correct it by (I think this is right) transferring torque to the sticky wheels so as to keep you going as straight as possible.

3) all i can think of about added costs of a 4wd car are that you have two "differentials" rather than one. a differential is connected to the transmission and it's what makes the drive wheels DRIVE wheels. There is one on each drive axle. So if you had front wheel drive, you would have a front differential only. Having AWD you have a front and rear. you can see the rear by looking under the car from the back - it's the square like box in the middle of your rear axle, trucks have a differential cover that looks more like a frisby or 'cap' you can see when you drive behind them. anyway, given that you have TWO differentials rather than one means about $50-100 (guessing) more every 60K miles 'cuz you have to have both differentials maintained - fluid drained and refilled. Other than that - I think they cost the same as a FWD car.

-elissa

ateixeira

Should be cheaper than that to change the oil in your rear "pumpkin", as some affectionately call it. It really is easier than changing your oil.

* remove the top (filler) bolt with a 1/2" driver
* remove the drain bolt, 1/2" driver again
* drain
* replace drain bolt
* fill with one quart (use a hand oil pump or funnel it down from above)
* replace fill bolt

Done.

Took me less than half hour to do myself.

-juice

nygreg

You forgot the cost of the clothes pin for your nose.

Greg

fibber2

I'll add to Elissa's fine write-up that there is also a center differential that distributes power between the front and the rear. The front differential has a dip stick for checking level and filling, with a plug nicely hidden underneath for draining. The rear has two bolts on the rear cover, as Juice described. The center diff, housed in the tailshaft of the transmission body, uses the tranny's ATF fluid as it's lubricant.

A component called the torque converter serves as a clutch in an automatic. As it is always somewhat engaged even when the engine is at idle, it does the job of holding the vehicle still on a mild grade that the hillholder does with a fully disengaged clutch on a manual.

Elissa described the typical system found in Subi cars. There are variations in some models that distribute torque more evenly and more elaborately, but her explanation covers what you would probably be buying.

On dry roads, the system is pretty transparent - you will barely know it is there in normal driving. On a rainy or snow day, it will amaze you with how surefooted it feels.

Steve

edunnett

ah... i was thinking of the expense and/or labor of changing the differential fluid on my husband's old Dakota truck. pain in the butt to make sure you sealed it good and got no leaks, hence the added labor charge, added trips to the mechanic to fix their previous job and hence, now i know what a pain it is to do it myself ;-). but yes, on the subies, it is much quicker, easier and less messy. -elissa

ateixeira

My pardons, yes gear oil STINKS! Where gloves else you'll have Gear Oil Cologne smell all day.

-juice

andmoon

Don't forget extra cv joints/boots when the car gets older.

Don

alyosha73

I was pricing 60k service for my non-subaru car and found out that most of the price is "inspect this and inspect that", while I can get more done cheaper at the independent shop, or even oil- change place, case in point:
                   Jiffy Lube /// My.Dealer:
cooling system
flush $50 // $110
fuel injector
cleaning $60 // $199
PCV valve $6 // $30
fuel filter $35 // $80

So for 30k service the cheapest dealer wants is $300 which doesnt even include fuel injector cleanings, but it includes - brake inspection, belts inspection, and such. Why cant we inspect all this stuff ourselves, get the essential services performed at quick lube places and get way more for our money?
Alyosha

jfl

Actually, when you read thru the 30k/60k service, it's all quite basic. I did it myself a few hours at a time over several weekends. There's a website that posts pix and descriptions of most of the steps. There are also lots of tips in the Subaru Crew: Care & Maintenance forum.

Email me if you want the other site as they don't want it mentioned here.

Jim

alyosha73

you email is private, I made mine visible, could you email me?
As far as services in 30k/60k, I agree, that they are rather basic, I am just saying that the most we should be doing is using dealer to diagnose and do warranty repairs, anything else should be done by independents, the price difference is amazing. Anyone knows what does dealer do for $199 carbon deposits injector cleaning? Spray intake and dump a bottle of cleaner fluid in the tank?

edunnett

I picked this up from my dealer recently. It includes FAR more than what you list for 30K/60K service. My dealer charges around $500 for it. Granted, this is much more than an independent shop I'm sure. I never doubt that a dealer will charge more for the same work. However, please don't go to Jiffy Lube! What you save in service costs you will pay for in poor quality and potentially a lawyer after they much up your oil filter and your engine siezes... Please, just no chain "quick lube" ! Hell, at least the dealer knows the difference between the transmission drain plug and the engine oil drain plug!

oil and filter and drain plug gasket
replace air cleaner
lube door hinges
check operation: horn, lights, alarm, seat belts, wipers, seat controls, AC, defrost
top off fluids
inspect cooling sys hoses
inspect and adjust parking brake
check fuel system and lines for leaks
rotate tires and measure tread, fill to spec inc spare
inspect brake linings
inspect clutch adjust if necessary
inspect axle and cv boots
add fuel sys cleaner to fuel
install windsheild washer solvent
replace pcv valve
check power steering
lube weatherstripping
inspect and adjust drive belts, replace as needed
check and lube window tracks
replace rear axle oil
test cooling system protection level, pressure test it
load test battery, add battery pads
replace fuel filter
replace transmission filter
replace manual tranny oil
replace brake fluid
drain and refill auto tranny fluid
check steering gear, lines, linkage for wear or damage
check engine idle speed
drain and refill coolant
replace spark plugs
inspect ignition wires
check computer trouble codes
inspect engine timing and adjust
replace cabin filter
clean throttle body

fibber2

Elissa,

That is indeed a pretty comprehensive list, and if they actually do everything, $500 isn't all that bad. IIRC, I broke $100 just in parts and supplies. I ordered the hard parts from one of the internet dealers, fluids mostly from WalMart:

oil filter, crush washer, Mobil 1 engine oil
transmission fluid, crush washer (I didn't buy the $40 filter)
brake fluid
Prestone antifreeze & fast flush
gear oil for center diff & rear diff (plus long tube funnel)
gas filter
spark plugs
air filter
cabin filter
PCV valve

Most of this stuff isn't hard, but there is a fair amout of labor involved if you do the job right and completely. With shop time at or above $80/hr these days, this is a lot of stuff to do in 5-6 hours.

Steve

lfdal

Anyonr managed to change the rear diff fluid with the rear diff protector installed and not make a major mess out of it?

Larry

ateixeira

The quick places have been known to drain your tranny gear oil instead of the engine oil, then proceed to overfill your engine oil, ruining both the engine and the tranny.

I think I'd go to a properly trained (with Subarus) dealer mechanic or just do it myself, thanks.

-juice

ateixeira

It's more than that. I use Techron in the tanks, but once we had a 626 that had its fuel system clog up, it was hesitating, and Techron was not enough.

So we took it in for what the Mazda dealer called a "throttle body service" and BOY did that work. I think they use a similar product (a solvent/detergent) but input directly into the engine instead of the tank.

There is a garage section in the big Miata board that details this procedure on the Miata. They actually remove an intake tube and dip it into the solvent/cleaner.

I'd leave this up to the pros given it's flammable and they do it with the engine running.

Sorry if my description is poor, I'm just recalling what I can from that miata discussion.

-juice

edunnett

Wondering... since gas is so darned expensive in CA is there an alternative to using Chevron to get my engine's yearly supply of Techron? Chevron is 15 cents more per gallon than what I usually buy so... I've heard there are Techron additives that I could add during oil changes that might be more economical. Thoughts?

Also, Techron should also clean a carbureted engine?

-elissa

subearu

You can buy the Techron additive at your friendly autoparts store for a few bucks. It's a black bottle.

-Brian

ateixeira

Yes, and that's about $4 per bottle. I think they even have 2 sizes, and they also have ProGuard which is a watered down version of Techron.

If you get Chevron gas regularly, I doubt ProGuard would make any difference at all.

But 15 cents is steep, if you use 500 gallons per year. Buy bottles on Techron instead, use it every 15k or at least 30k miles. In the long run that's a lot cheaper.

-juice

[Deleted User]

vtcleo, are you in Madison, WI by any chance? I just bought my '04 WRX about 2 months ago and need to go in for my first service. I'm wondering whether to take it to the local dealer (without mentioning names) or go elsewhere. Unfortunately, Madison is a "college town", lots of people drive Subarus, and yes, the nearest dealer is about 1.5 hours away. These qualities all sound suspiciously like the town you were describing.

edunnett

If by "first service" you are referring to the 3500 mile service or the 7500 mile service, you can take your car anyplace. Heck, even for all the other services you are under no obligation to step foot in a dealership again. Just your mechanic to do what the owners manual says - I think just an oil change and a tire rotation also at 7500. You don't need a dealer for that! Go to a reputable local mechanic.
Elissa

ateixeira

Reputable being the key word in that phrase. Get a reference, find a shop that's been around for a while. Preferably find someone who has worked on Subies a lot, Outbacks are popular after all.

-juice

subearu

alyosha73, please don't hit the refresh button on your browser, you're making your original posting get reposted each time.

Regarding the first oil change and DIY, make sure you get the proper oil filter, especially if you have a turbo model. The OEM filters are inexpensive and just fine, make sure to get the crush washer too.

-Brian

ateixeira

There's more to that service than that.

Mazda charged us about $150, but the car regained about 80 lost horespower so I can't complain.

-juice

alyosha73

Sorry, just noticed, wont do it again.

andmoon

don't use techron too often...it can leave deposits on your sparkplugs.

Don

mrbentley

hey ya'll,

have a subie forester with some serious deep scratches on the interior plastic parts (like the rear cup holder cover). i want to avoid changing these parts and instead use some sort of filler......is this product available and where can i get it?? (live in Toronto, Canada)

thanks everybody.

alyosha73

Just did carb deposits cleaning at the Jiffy place - the cost was $59.99, they opened and cleaned throttle body, they fed injector cleaner into the working engine, and added a bottle of cleaner to the tank, all done in front of me, no nonsense. Granted I had no problem with carbs before, so no significant change in horsepower can be observed (it is a 30K on Ford Focus SVT). Had them do coolant flush, fuel filter (no PCV in my engine), air filter, and signiture oil change - total $188 after tax. Mind you, I did all of the mentioned inspection of belts and hoses, brakes and pads, - myself. $112 under the lowest price quoted by dealer (none included injector cleanings). They could not change oil in the clutch, cause they didnt have the right kind.

edunnett

All my previous Subarus seemed to have the cooling fan cycle on when the car turned off. My '04 XT is the first one I've had where the cooling fan doesn't kick on after I turn the engine off. This seems strange to me but I haven't noticed the temperature gauge going too high in stop and go traffic or anything like that. Forgot to mention it to my dealer on my last trip in. Has anyone else noticed their cooling fan going on or not going on when they power down?
Elissa

edunnett

Has anyone done this type of electrical work? I have another car (vintage civic not my subie) that I have to do this work in and I was looking for some advice particularly wrt the plug ends - I thought the new motor would include a plug end but apparently I have to wire the pos/neg wires into a plug end myself before plugging it into power source in the car. Anyone care to email me (email in profile) if they have done this? The Honda board include people who don't even know where there oil filters are, so I come here where people DO stuff
Elissa

edunnett

note last two posts - ugh.