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Comments
-juice
I just purchased a new 2004 Impreza wagon from the local dealership (a few weeks ago, 5/31) and am having some problems (yes yes this is the one that I couldn't get the dealer down to the price I wanted, and then had a really bad feeling about and bought anyway - I am kicking myself now!!!). After taking it back to the dealer today, I was told that these things are "normal". A friend suggested I post to get some feedback. I'm afraid I'm not very car-savvy and this is the first AWD vehicle I've owned, so any tips, help, and pointers are greatly appreciated! Thanks.
Problem 1 (most concerning): The steering feels "wobbly". It feels alot like when a car is being pushed sideways by wind, and you have to constantly correct the steering to stay straight. I find myself constantly correcting, especially at interstate speeds (>60mph), and feel like the car is rather "jittery". It's an awful lot of work, and I feel very nervous about looking away from the road (ie to check the speed or mileage) for even a second, as I worry about careening into the traffic alongside of me.
I hadn't noticed it as much at lower speeds - but to check, I picked a straight section of road with no traffic and gently lifted my hands from the wheel. The car appeared fine for approximately 1-2 seconds, and by the 2-3 second was pulling noticeably to the right. I repeated this 3 times with the same results, on 3 different (but nearby) sections of road.
Dealer had 2 people drive it on the highway, and said that they didn't feel anything wrong. They advised me that all-wheel-drive grips the road, and thus can feel like it's pulling to one side depending on the road itself.
Problem 2: There's a noise coming from the front of the car (I assume the engine). It's very faint, and the dealer said (again had 2 people listen) they can't hear it. It's hard to describe- definitely fainter than the road noise I'm getting - almost electronic in that it's very smooth/pure, not "rumbly" or "buzzy". On listening again, it resembles the type of sound that you make when you tie something to a string and whirl it around fast... Noticeable at high speeds (>60mph), most noticeable when accelerating, seems to get louder (and I think higher, not sure) the harder you accelerate.
Are these things normal? Should I be concerned?
The sound I can live with, as long as it's not a sign of impending doom for something in the engine, but the steering is very very stressful for me, especially as most of my driving is on the interstate... I can't imagine taking the car on a long trip, I think I'd be exhausted from trying to keep it straight!
Thank you very much for your help!
Problem 2: That's pretty hard to diagnose without actually hearing it. I have a feeling it's just normal boxer engine noise. Subarus have VERY different engine layouts than other manufacturers...which is a good thing, believe me...and they sound just a little different because of it.
Problem #2 - the sound you're hearing is probably the boxer "growl". Horizontally opposed (boxer) engines have a unique sound.
DaveM
DaveM
As Ty poined out, it's fairly normal for a car to pull sightly to the right due to the crown in the road and that's something that would be more noticeable at highway speeds. Also your Impreza might have more sensitive steering than what you're use to. Try finding a straight strectch of multi-lane hwy where the crown is visible to the naked eye then pick the leftmost lane. The car should pull to the left. If it doesn't then ask that they check the alignemt.
I also agree that the engine noise is probably normal. If you don't trust the dealer and you'd like a second opnion then let me know and I'd be happy to go for a test ride with you (assuming from your screen name that you live locally in Atlanta).
-Frank
I will go down first thing in the morning and check the tire pressure, just to be sure it's in the correct range. The car is feeling awful *bouncy* so maybe they are a little over-inflated.
Thanks for the idea of trying the left lane of the highway - I'll give that a try in the next few days and see if it makes a difference.
Shouldn't the "boxer growl" be "growly"? I had heard about this before, and expected something a little lower, sound-wise, and more rumbly - rather than this almost whining type noise. But, as I said, the noise itself isn't alarming (not like anything is banging together or falling out
My "last car" was a '97 Dodge Neon, 2d coupe, that I got new in '97 and drove for 7 years. I assume that, as Frank said, the Subaru has more sensitive steering?
Gotta admit, I'm kinda missing the little Neon...
Thank you for your help! And Frank, thanks for the offer to come check out my car, I appreciate it - and am feeling a little more at ease now. At least I have a plan for what to check out next...
Thanks!
Problem #2 - if you have the WRX, then it's most likely high pitched turbo noise - that's normal. If it disappears when you let up on the gas pedal, then it's the turbo spooling up that you're hearing.
If you have a non-turbo, then I have no idea. Maybe a vacuum leak?
The tire pressure seems to be off just a little, not sure it's enough to make a difference, but I'm going to go run to the gas station and try to fix it.
According to the placard - should be 32psi in the front, and 29 in the back. (Does that make sense, or did I misunderstand? Last car was the same pressure front & back, and I thought that, with AWD, you wanted to make sure all tires were basically "equal"?)
My car seemed to be 30-30.5 psi on every tire.
10years - did the offer to put it on the alignment machine to check, or did you have to insist? I don't believe they did that with mine, I think they just drove it and said, "Well it feels normal to us". The service person said that they had 2 people drive it, and neither felt that it had any problem with steering - but looking at my reeipt, they claim to only have added 10 miles total to the mileage, which would mean each person only drove about 5 miles. I'm not sure how they could tell in so short a space - I don't even think they could have gotten to the interstate and back in 5 miles, let alone driven on it.
Is it alot of work to put it on the machine and actually test the alignment? It would sure make me feel a whole lot better, and I'm not real keen on taking it to some random place to get it test, since I've had problems with random-places previously
Thanks!
Less pressure = more 'plush' ride, worse gas mileage, more tire grip on the road, but could actually be less safe below that recommended 29psi. When I drive in sand or off road, I sometimes lower the pressure but for highway driving I won't go below 30psi.
More pressure = more "firm" ride, better gas mileage, better ability to withstand higher weight loads (like if you were hauling stuff you'd want to fill the rear tires more), keep below the recommend max indicated on the tire itself or you will have over-inflated which can also be dangerous. I don't fill over 32 or 33 on any of my tires no matter what the driving conditions.
Always check the pressure when the tires are cold, after driving a couple of miles, the psi can go up by as much as 5.
As for alignment. Maybe you need to insist that you go with the dealer tech to ensure they make it onto the highway and at speeds you find the problem. Have them get on a smooth flat stretch of highway and take their hands off of the steering wheel. If the car starts pulling in one direction, you'll both notice it.
An alignment is not cheap, so I don't recommend going to a private shop to measure if it's within specs unless you're at your wits end and ready to eat the money ($100?). See if your dealer will give in to your insistence that they check the alignment under warranty. Also, don't know how many miles are on your car yet, but you may be able to ID an alignment problem by the tread wear on the tires themselves. Look for uneven wear on any of the tires. Although you probably have less than 3K on the car so you probably won't notice anything there.
-elissa
I adjusted the pressure this afternoon to 32 in the front, 29 in the back (I think all the tires were close to 30.5) and, just in local driving, there seems to be an improvement! I could drive around with one hand, fairly relaxed on the wheel (as opposed to a death grip with two hands, trying to hold on for dear life :-) !) so I think I'm on the right track! Yay!
The real test will be on the interstate tommorrow, driving up to work, but any improvement at this point is very welcome!
Someone else has suggested to me that the default tires on the base Impreza are cheap and not very good (grr can't remember offhand what type they are) and that I might consider upgrading them to something better... that a tire upgrade could be a drastic improvement in the ride (very bumpy, even after adjusting tire pressure) and steering... does this match up with everyone elses' experience? I know I've seen alot of tire-talk around here ;-) and remember alot of comments about the Forester basic tires not being great... Not that I'm eager to spend more money at this point, but...
If I buy new tires, do they do an alignment as part of the installation?
YMMV.
On the pull to the right, it's possible even with a new tire that you could have a radial pull - assuming you've checked your inflation pressures & the alignment is within spec. Have the tires rotated front to rear & see if the pull disappears. The straight line instability could also be from tire overinflation, gross L/R pressure differences or alignment if experienced with a steady throttle & it's not a road crown issue.
I agree with troop2shos and set my tire pressure a few pounds over, but I maintain the F/R difference.
Jim
I am considering purchasing an Outback XT with the 5MT.
What have been some of the problems with the 5MT in the past? Should I be concerned? Would I be better with the new 5AT for durability?
Also, maybe Patti could define "reinforced". What exactly has been done to the transmission, and have the changes been specifically done to address problems in the past?
Many thanks
To correct the jerky feel at high speeds, I would recommend having the tires balanced. (When taking your tire pressure, have a look around the outer edge of the rim, and you should see small weights cliped on. These are balancing weights, adn yes, even a few grams can throw off the feel. On yours, they may be under the hubcaps if you don't have alloy wheels.)
The Potenza tires on there are decent for everyday driving, and fairly acceptable in the rain. Snow handling is good for the first 30,000Kms or so, then they really loose their grip. I have replaced the Potenza tires on my Outback with BFGoodrich Traction T/A tires, which seem to be doing just fine.
The tire shop will not perform an alignment when they change the tires, since the alignment is related to the wheels and rotors, not the tires. They will, however, balance and adjust the wheigts on the wheels.
Hope that answers your question, enjoy your Subaru!
Increasing it slightly over mfgrs recommendation is probably OK for some applications, but keep them proportional, and don't go too crazy.
Steve
HTH, Owen
Boxers do make a nice growl, very unique sounding. It could be the fuel pump but if so you have *excellent* hearing.
Sebastian: haven't seen many tranny problems. Well, a few syncros on the '98-'99 Forester and Impreza, but not many. More people complained about the clutch.
The Outback XT has a new dual-mass flywheel and the clutch (on the GT I sampled, same powertrain) is smooth as buttah. Huge improvement.
Auto trannies have been ever better, historically, modded cars handling up to 300hp with the stock transmission, without any reinforcement.
-juice
ozman62 - what's a PDI? At any rate, it does sound very much exactly like what I'm experiencing!
Given that this car had:
- stains in the fabric of the roof
- a very small ding in the door
- rust in the door
- warped plastic in the storage compartment above the radio
And that it was a dealer trade, it looks like the last dealership that had it didn't take very good care of it.
I think I'm going to send them a letter explaining that, and what I've read here, and asking them to please do the balance/alignment when I bring it back to have the rust repaired. I'm going to have to bring the car back for that anyway, might as well get them to do the rest of the stuff. I know it's a bit weird to write a letter, but I think it will be easier to get my point across (ie all the other smaller problems that it had, and what other people have said about how it should handle) in writing then on the phone.
And, yes, it was a BRAND NEW car...
On the bright side, after reading all this I do feel like the balancing/alignment with the correct tire pressure should do the trick. I think once this gets settled, the car will be alot nicer to drive, as the engine seems very peppy and the brakes are excellent.
Thanks!
If you haven't already started a case file with SoA, call 1-800-SUBARU3
-Dave
They did a miserable job if they missed all those things.
You do have a one year "adjustment" period to get all those issues addressed.
-juice
Should the PDI happen right before they delivery the vehicle, or when it first arrives? They handed me some little checklist to show that it had been inspected, but it was dated from... 2003 I think (have it at home, will have to check). I suspect that it was inspected by the other dealership when they got it - and that perhaps the dealership that I bought it from didn't do an inspection when they took possession of it.
Yup they missed all that. Unfortunately, I missed most of it when I took possession - I caught the stains and had them fixed. I had seen the ding last time I was there, but couldn't find it (very small) when I took possession, and didn't mention it - saw it again as soon as I got home of course. Didn't realize the plastic was warped til I was looking around, pushed on it, and realized it actually is supposed to go down further to be flush with the surrounding case (duh). And, like I said, just caught the rust this week...
Oh, and I had the a piece of plastic (not sure what it's actually for) in the cargo area snap off in my hand when I poked it trying to figure out what it was. *Sigh*
Thanks...
If they're *really good*, they'll air down the tires, which come overinflated for shipping to prevent flat spots.
Definitely point these things out to the dealer, see how they respond. If you're still not pleased, do call the 800 number.
-juice
Many service depts don't even bother to check the tire pressure and this guy wants you to believe that they go to the trouble of putting the car up on a lift, take all four tires off to check their balance, and then check the alignment? Yeah Right! Did he also tell you that the tooth fairy was real?
-Frank
Owen
This has proven to be a difficult task to reproduce to the dealer as it only clanks once and only after a cold start.
Any helpful ideas from the forum? Thanks! - Shaul
-mike
Juice, thanks for slipping this in your message. I just checked the tire pressure on my Forester (purchased in mid-April) to make sure they were properly inflated in order not to lose gas mileage. Imagine my surprise when they all registered a bit over 40! I'll be adjusting them tomorrow but at least now I know why they are so high. I was wondering if it was my pressure gauge or if I was doing something wrong when I checked them.
BTW, gas mileage is steady at 27.15 mpg and that's no highway driving at all. Not the 40 I was getting in the Civic, but not bad. Hope I don't lose much when I let the air out of the tires!!!
I think some dealers do part of the PDI when they receive the car, like taking the plastic off the seats, stuff like that. Also, those plastic sheets that cover the sheet metal. At least the horizontal panels.
-juice
John
-Frank
I am so infatuated with my "new" car. It's beautiful: timberline green, all leather interior. And it's fun to drive with the roof open to the sky and the CD changer playing my favorite music.
What can I do to maximize performance (gas mileage, especially)? I noticed a posting about using a special air filter, but have no idea if the performance they were talking about is what I'm interested in. Maybe they were talking about the race track and I am not interested in going fast--just going cheap. I learned today from some of the postings that I need to check the air pressure on all the tires--that's a start.
I need good solid simple advice from you car lovers out there. Please KISS--Keep It Simple Stupid! Thank you.
Air filter - I installed a high air flow air filter made by K&N (very popular) in my 01 OB. I saw no real difference in MPG. I would recommend staying with the Subaru filter (just make sure it is changed every 30K miles). We can help you do it yourself. Driving habits is the single biggest impact to higher mileage. No jack rabbit starts, lift off the gas way before stopping where possible, doing less than Paisan speed (inside joke - Mike likes high speed), have friends drive when you go out, etc. Also, tire air pressure should be at recommended pressures (30 front, 29 rear), although I like 34/33 for the better handling and questionably better mpg. Regular maintenance schedule (typically every 30K miles).
Greg
1) I'd reiterate - don't slam the accelerator down, slam on the brakes and don't drive aggressively in general.
2) Drive as much as you can without the use of the A/C and/or heater.
3) Keep the engine tuned up and perform all scheduled maintenance. I'm almost positive that changing in the air filter and spark plugs on my husband's Dodge Dakota recently was responsible for a sudden jump in gas mileage from 16/17 MPG to a steady 18 MPG.
4) Keep the tires properly inflated, rotated at 7,500 mile intervals and replace when the tread gets too low (see owners manual on what "too low" is).
5) You might be able to squeeze a bit more mileage out by removing any roof accessories from the car. Any luggage racks, bikes, etc will add to the friction/drag and use more gas.
6) Avoid hilly roads and stop lights over highways.
7) Run on a warm engine. The engine is more efficient once warmed up. If you have five errands to run in a single day, it's more efficient to do them all on one trip rather than to let the engine cool between trips.
Also I've found AC increased MPG on the highway over open windows.
-mike
Larry
Well, maybe it doesn't make much of a difference, but it makes the owner feel good!
Steve
Larry
Don
Greg
Steve
Ahh, but soccer has ended. School is over today. Daddy has 2 months of some free time.
Greg
that normal for the infamous 2.5 Boxer engine?
anything special/quirky about the 2002 models that i should be aware of?
thanks!
Larry
It works, looks at my recent mileage:
27.67979844
24.74275023
25.92815724
26.60467698
26.13312359
27.20528828
24.66649673
26.30769231
25.80353685
27.79787234
27.6418137
I'm supposed to get 21/27!
-juice
Thanks to you and the others for all the great advice.
I'll forget about the fancy filter, get my tire pressure checked, and work on my acceleration/braking style.
For 15 yrs I drove a MomMobile, Manual tranny. It's been so great to have this sporty sedan with an automatic. But I need to focus on smoooothing my driving -- Just because the car does all my work for me doesn't mean I should cooperate a little.
As the owner of a string of Nissan, Toyota and Honda vehicles, I concur that the boxer just does not feel as refined, smooth or quiet. Yet I have grown to like it's uniqueness just the same. You probably will too....
Steve
Patti