Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

transition

Hi Everyone,

I just purchased a 99 Impreza Brighton Wgn with 80,000 km on it. I got it from the original owner, and have all the service records, which look quite good. I have no reason to think the car was driven hard; in fact, it's still on its first set of brake pads.

After letting the car sit for a few days, I noticed a puff of bluish smoke out of the exhaust when I started it up. This lasted for only a few seconds. There doesn't seem to be any smoke when the car is warm and running. And there's no smoke when I start the car in the morning, if I drove it the previous day. It was just after sitting for a few days that I noticed the smoke.

I know blue smoke is usually caused by worn valves or pistons. But with so little mileage on the car, I'm hoping this isn't the problem. Is there anything else, maybe something unique to Subarus, that could cause this problem?

Thanks!

c_hunter

Sounds like a worn valve stem or guide is letting oil drip into one of the cylinders over time. That fact that it takes a couple days to really show up is better than if it happened all the time!

I had a neighbor that bought a used GL which had engine noise and was puffing smoke on startup. He changed the oil and all the problems went away. His conclusion is that it must have had the wrong weight oil in the engine. I am not sure this is a universal cause/effect, but you never know. A thinner oil would sure leak past the valves more easily than a thicker one. It wouldn't hurt to verify that you have the correct weight oil in the engine for starters.

transition

Thanks for the reply. The car was serviced at a local Subaru dealership a month or so before I bought, and I assume they know what amount and weight of oil to put into the car. But I'll double-check. I hope the fix is that easy!

Anyone else have any other thoughts?

Thanks.

once_for_all

Hi all, my MPV through a CEL the other day, probably an emissions deal like a gas cap issue.

Who has experience with over the counter OBD2 scanners? Will they reset the CEL as well as diagnose? What brands do you recommend and cost?

Thanks,

John

xwesx

Since you just purchased it, you might consider pulling the battery cable on it for about 30 minutes to reset the ECU. That way it will learn your driving habits. My dad had a Camry many years back that started blowing blue smoke after he moved from one town to another and thus changed his driving habits significantly. An ECU reset and the problem was instantaneously gone.... and it was blowing smoke near-constantly before that.

Worth a shot anyway, but the drip-down theory sounds valid to me as well.

xwesx

I have a scanner similar to the Equus 3110 Innova ($142 on Amazon) that works well for pulling codes and resetting the ECU, but if you want something that will offer you real-time diagnostics and whatnot then you should go with software that will allow you to hook up a laptop to monitor the vehicle's performance.

I think perhaps Craig or Steve have something like that - I am not sure how much it would cost.

subearu

I have the one from OBD-2.com, paid $120 I think for the ISO version with USB. Hooks up to our '02 MPV and my '04 F-XT.

Can clear codes, set codes, test, view realtime data, and save it as well.

-Brian

ladywclass

some of you may remember me posting some months back about an "electrical" problem ...

when I would turn on my lights, the ABS light would come on shortly afterward ... also when lights were off, and I would brake, the dash lights would dim ...

I had the timing belt replaced in early September .. within a couple of weeks, both problems stopped ...

my theory is that the timing belt was wearing out and the alternator wasn't being completely charged .. anyone think that might be in the ballpark? ..or am I totally off base with that theory ...

the only other one I have is that it appeared as the weather started getting warmer and disappeared as the weather got cooler ... lol

Brenda

samiam_68

The mechanics probably tightened the accessory belt (it was probably loose) which drives the alternator when they reassembled everything after the timing belt change.

xwesx

Yes, that or a loose connector to the alternator are about the only ways those could be related. Definitely could not have anything to do with the timing belt.... it has two modes: works or does not work. Mode 2 is not good...... :P

If the belt was that loose, I am surprised you were not hearing any sort of squealing though. Probably something to keep watch over, as it may recur.

fibber2

John,

Wes is correct, I decided to go PC based.

I initially was going to buy one of the simple readout units like the Actron 9135. Good, basic unit that displays a code number, simple word description, reset capabilities, etc., and available for around $100. I borrowed one from AutoZone once.

Then I started looking at CarChip, and was very intrigued by the ability to datalog. We engineers love to look at the underlying data, not just the bottom line! But now it becomes a two step function as you capture the data, then remove the module to read it out.

Finally I became convinced that datalogging and realtime observation was the only way to go. I purchased the AutoEnginuity software and interface for use with my very old laptop off of e-bay for around $200. I am sure that it would perform better if I had a more powerful PC. But you cannot expect much with a Pentium-I, 48 meg of memory and Win-98 !! AutoTap looks to make a nice PC package as well.

Things to consider:
While OBDII uses a common interface plug, there are currently 5 different data protocols in use (two ISO variants, VPW, PWM, & CAN), plus a number of proprietary code modules needed to read out all that stored data from over 100 onboard sensors. Over time, all auto mfgrs are migrating to CAN, yet most code readers are not so equipped. Keep this in mind if you are thinking about a new car down the road. AutoEnginuity was one of the few that supported CAN at the time.

Steve

Mr_Shiftright

It's a classic symptom of bad valve stem seals or worn valve guides. I wouldn't worry about it too much unless it gets really obnoxious.

once_for_all

Thanks all,

I don't want to go PC based and I don't have the time to figure out yet another software program. So I guess I will look around for a decent handheld, or AutoZone. First I will try Mazda with the hope that the emissions warranty will cover. Not much faith in that idea.

John

ateixeira

I have one of the Acrton ones, paid $105 or so IIRC. AutoZone had them on sale for under $100 a couple of weeks ago. Got mine on Amazon IIRC.

Works like a charm. It only reads and resets codes, though.

Some of the better (and pricier) portable models are like trip computers. They can calculate real-time MPG, stuff like that. You may consider investing a bit more for one of those.

If you're near me, I'll scan your codes for ya...

-juice

xwesx

Thanks for chiming in, Steve! It is a disappointment not to see many posts from you these days, but, as always, you still deliver on the quality. I will have to try out the PC-based diagnostics one of these days, as I was also intrigued by "CarChip".

I think I CAN.

fibber2

Thanks, Wes, I appreciate the kind words!

The last few months have been rough, and barely had time to read, let alone respond to these boards. I just got back from two weeks in Japan (a wonderful family vacation), and off to CA on business next week. Then TX three weeks out.

When things settle down a bit, I will try and participate more.

Footnote on the PC based units. My AutoEnginuity unit came with a serial cable, which is in part why it is still dedicated to my old laptop. I'll need to invest in a serial to USB interface if I want to use it on either of our new laptops. If you buy a PC scanner, make sure it has a USB cable!

Steve

transition

That's what I was afraid of! But I'll take your advice and not worry about for now. Just out of curiousity, does anyone happen to know roughly what it would cost to repair worn valve guides or seals?

Thanks for the replies.

xwesx

You are looking at pulling the heads, so I would estimate it would be, at minimum, as much as replacing head gaskets.... so $1800 minimum for both sides - probably more like $2500 if the labor involved with the valves themselves is considered.

Am I way off base here?

saedave

Many years ago there were kits for older Chevrolet OHV straight six engines with this problem. They included auxiliary seals that could be installed with little labor. I doubt that such seals are still made. Perhaps someone knows?

starrman

I have having my head gaskets replaced on my 2001 Forester for $1,700 including parts and labor. I am considering replacing the timing belt and water pump for extra $400 in parts at the same time. The mechanic said it will cost effective since everything is apart.

xwesx

If you will have the timing belt replaced within a forseeable timeframe anyway, then yes, it is extremely cost effective since you are ONLY paying for the price of parts - no extra labor involved, well, except for the time to pull 6 bolts for the water pump (effectively zero). But, $400? Let's see, $100 for the timing belt.... $300 for the water pump?! Am I missing something? I would think more like $80-$100 for the water pump, but I would have to check my receipt from when I purchased one about 18 months ago. Unless you are having all your idler pulleys replaced on the timing belt system as well, then $400 in parts sounds awefully high.

shrinermonkey

Like someone already said:

$400 for a timing belt and water pump!? Even if the parts list includes coolant, a new themostat, and all related gaskets... you are looking at maybe $250 tops. I could see if that $400 includes the extra labor, but not JUST parts.

locke2c

I've fully disassembled a Subaru SOHC head. It would definitely take new valves and seals. There are no valveguides in the sense of what a OHV head would have.

It is not worth worrying about right now. Drive the car into the ground and then replace it with something else. If the engine suffers a serious failure before you're ready to ditch the whole car, personally I would just find a low mileage salvage donor and install the complete engine.

~Colin

Mr_Shiftright

An engine can run for a gazillion miles with worn valve stem seals or worn valve stems/guides. If it becomes truly obnoxious, you can switch to heavier oils and hotter spark plugs. You'll know it's getting bad when you start fouling spark plugs during cold start.

PF_Flyer

It's Thursday, so that means Subaru Crew chat time! Stop in and chat about Subarus (or all the other stuff that comes up)

I'll also be picking your brains for dicsussion suggestions for the Subaru vehicle groups as we reorganize the forums. Your input and assistance is greatly appreciated!

The Subaru Crew Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

ladywclass

On Friday I'm driving home and realize that both the BRAKE light and the CHARGING light are on ... I stopped in a parking lot, and turned the car off and back on, and both lights remained lit .. I drove the few miles home, and again restarted the car after driving into the garage .. both lights still on ..

yesterday evening, I started the car, and both lights went off (as they usually do) ... now I'm really confused ...

guess it will go in for some "checkups" ...

(did I mention that the last payment is due this month?)

grrrrr

leo2633

I had a similar problem with my Forester a few years back. Turned out to be the alternator, which had to be replaced. Apparently, a symptom of the alternator going south is all(?) the dash lights coming on for no apparent reason. Mine also went off, then came back on a short time later.

I hope this helps.

Len

ladywclass

After an earlier "warning lights" glitch on and off .. I'd already decided it was probably the alternator ...

but thanks !

rob_m

Alternator, Bren. I had the same thing happen on the old Outback. Hundreds of miles from home ... on a Sunday afternoon ... while on vacation. Rob M.

ateixeira

the last payment is due this month

In a way, that's good. No repairs and payments at the same time (double whammy).

Usually it's on the day after the warranty expires, or at 36,001 miles.

-juice

ladywclass

well I still have one payment to go and the repairs have started too soon !!

I took it in this morning and they put in a rebuilt alternator (that's what the receipt says .. at a cost of $252 for the part) and also replaced front brake pads and rotors ... cost was $631 .. does that sound way out of line?

from looking at part cost/ labor costs it doesn't sound like they are gouging me ... but what do I know???

Labor costs were $74 for the alternator and $111 for the brakes ..

I was sort of surprised they got it all done today ...

Brenda

xwesx

The alternator sounds overpriced. I purchased mine from NAPA less than two years ago and, while I do not remember the exact cost, I do remember it was well under $200.

xwesx

Okay folks, have any of you had any experience or heard about experiences with Green Diamond tires? I just heard about these today and am curious.

rob_m

If I recall, front rotors and pads for the 03 Outback cost me $375, parts and labor, and that was from the dealer. Rob M.

rob_m

The radio in my wife's 03 Outback has been giving me problems since the summer.

It started when the front left speaker stopped working. Occasionally it would work, if the interior was extremely hot. Then the left rear and right front speakers stopped working. Once in a great while, they pop on. At least the right rear speaker always works.

I replaced the factory P125 radio with another P125 radio. Did the same thing. Pulled apart the left front and rear doors and tested the speakers.

I'm guessing wiring harness or connector. Any easy way to test/troubleshoot. Getting behind the radio is not exactly easy. Thanks! Rob M.

ateixeira

Was the $631 just for the brakes, or the total for those and the alternator?

-juice

ladywclass

total for alternator, brake pads, rotors, and labor ... (if it was just one or the other I was HOSED!) lol

ateixeira

I think the total is fine, though the alternator price does seem a bit high.

Maybe it was really new but they just included an exchange, so they could rebuild your old one?

-juice

ladywclass

that could be .. I thought the price for the part was a bit high .. however I really didn't have time to talk to them about it when I paid the bill and then we went back later after they were closed to retrieve the car ...

leo2633

I believe my alternator was about $200.00 about 1 1/2 years ago. It was also a rebuilt, and I had to return the core.

Len

fibber2

Brenda,

Last spring when I did my OB's brakes, OEM pads were running around $45 and rotors around $75 over the counter. So $195 for brake parts, plus $111 for labor (1.5 hours) is $306. That is not out of line.

The $252 for the alternator plus $74 labor (1 hour) is another $326. The part sounds a little pricy, but again not too far over. Together that is $632 total. Gee, real close to the $631.... Yes, it is a lot of money, but it falls within reason for Dealership service today.

I went with rather pricy aftermarket pads and rotors (Hawk pads and Cryo frozen slotted rotors), and rang up over $350 in parts alone. Admittedly, it is a little hard to tell if the braking performance is that much better that it justified the premium price.

Steve

ladywclass

wasn't the dealer .. was an independent garage ...

ateixeira

They have their own markups, too. They basically charge you retail for the parts, and get them at or near wholesale, and pocket the difference.

Still, I doubt it would be worth price-shopping your own alternator so save a few bucks, especially when the car is out of service for an extra day or so.

-juice

xwesx

Regarding the alternator specifically, if anyone ends up needing to change it out prior to an all-out failure (so you can choose when and where to work on it!), the swap job takes about 20 minutes and is as easy as an oil change.... just not as messy!

ladywclass

hey .. I'm doing good to KNOW enough to be secure in what repairs were done ... over (mumble mumble) number of years of driving you just realize what happened in the past and had to be replaced, and can sort of figure out what's probably wrong with the car ...

on the other hand ... I have NO idea how to FIX it .. lol

zznalg

Hi All, I am thinking about buying a new Outback XT. My question is whether the side impact safety improvements made to the Legacy in 2006 (following marginal side impact test results for the 2005 redesign) were also made to the Outback? IIHS states on their site that their test results for the Legacy do not apply to the Outback. I figure that this can be due to either the fact that the Outback sits higher or that it is structurally different. Does anybody have a definitive answer?

c_hunter

This is the IIHS statement:

"The side impact crash test ratings also apply to the station wagon version of the Legacy, beginning with 2006 models. However, they do not apply to Outback models."

This is probably due to the fact that the Outback sits higher, and that is a key factor in their side impact tests. Higher vehicles tend to fare better.

As for structural differences -- the two vehicles share the exact same body stampings. Until they hit the paint booth and start to get trim, they are identical. In fact, there are even markings on the body showing mount points for other parts, depending on whether it's a Legacy or an Outback. So, if the Legacy got body/structural mods for 06, then the Outback inherited them as well.

once_for_all

all, does anyone have a knowledge of CEL code P0174? The code is interpreted as "system lean burn bank 2" and "fuel-air ratio". BTW this code is from my 2002 Mazda MPV with the Ford Duratec v-6 engine. I am not getting any info from the Mazda board so I thought I would throw it out here...

BTW Juice thanks for the code reader advice, I picked one up from Amazon at $55 and it is a nice basic unit at a great cost.

John

ateixeira

I agree with Craig that the OB would have gotten the same upgrades under the skin.

Better still, the Outback had already gotten excellent crash test results in a similar offset test in Australia, so it was better than the Legacy to begin with. So it has to be at least as safe as the Legacy, which is already a Gold Pick.

What's better than Gold? Platinum, maybe? :shades:

-juice

ateixeira

Pretty vague error code. I'd start with the oxygen sensor, they run about $70-90 or so, and that's what would read the oxygen content in the exhaust and perhaps trigger such a code (unburned fuel).

Google the error code, also, to see what others have done. Maybe enter "P0174 Mazda MPV" as the keywords for your search.

-juice