Honda Latitude

revka

Rumor has it that Honda will be bringing this wagon to the USA. Anyone know more about this...? Thanks for any news. ;-)

Revka
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ropedart

Yes, my wife could use a Latitude. Something she can steer. The Odyssey is too big and too expensive especially for us overtaxed Canadians. Note the number of poor Canadians on these forums.

odman

Count me in on that! Despite our poverty, we could use a little Latitude.

I expect the Latitude will do well here -- the smaller Mazda MPV does much better here (1.2% share of total mkt)than in the USA (0.4% share), and I remember reading somewhere that the split between regular and Grand Caravan/Voyagers is 60/40 in Canada, and 40/60 in the USA. The Nissan Axxess and Eagle Summit wagons sold much better here too.

However, it all comes down to pricing. Let's hope they can price it under $25K. The Stream goes for about 2,000 euros less than the CR-V in Germany, so $25K should be realistic.

qbrozen

anybody got a picture of this thing?? What are we talking about here? Imprezza Wagon size? Saturn L Wagon size? What?

marcb

here

can't say i'm not sure how i stand with the looks, hopefully it will look better in real life.

ps. huh - I'm the 5th poster on this thread? drats revka... you pulled a fast one on me (-;

marcb

when it gets here in North America

First: It could get a bigger engine. Actually this would be fine as long as the fuel efficiency is kept (I doubt it).

Second: It will loose it's 3rd row seat and compete with the Toyota Matrix instead of setting a new Micro van trend. I'm sure there will be takers, but it would be nice to set new grounds for smaller efficient MPV's here in NA.

oh btw, for the 1st timers: The Stream in Europw is what will be the Latitude in NA.

revka

Thanks for bringing up the subject in our Honda Fit/Jazz discussion. So where's that article you linked there? Perhaps you'd like to copy/paste it over here.... ;-)

Revka
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marcb

this Latitude thingy. Here's a link. I hate to think all those good input from our friends go to nirvana.

odman

Credit for breaking the news about the Stream coming over under the Latitude banner goes to Ropedart (over in the Honda Element discussion). He mentioned this about a week or two ago. I've been bouncing between the Fit/Jazz thread and the Honda Element thread looking for discusisons on this car.

I'm glad Revka opened up this thread -- I had e-mailed Steve in the Vans board to get him to de-archive the Honda Stream thread, but I guess he never did.

As long as we have a place to meet and chat, I'm happy. Thanks for posting that link, Marcb. Topgear magazine from the UK had a great 2-way comparison of the Stream against the Zafira in their Oct 2001 issue. They don't seem to keep it on their site though.

marcb

Roughly the Latitude will be taller than a Suzuki Aerio but has about the width/length of the Focus SW:

dimensions	Length	Width	Height
Aerio	166.5"	67.7"	61.0"
Focus SW	178.2"	66.9"	53.9"
Latitude	179.0"	67.0"	62.6"

(fer cryin out loud, can't figure why this dang thing wants to go all the way here).

dudleyr

Look forward to seeing this vehicle in the U.S.

odman

Credit for breaking the news about the Stream coming over under the Latitude banner goes to Ropedart (over in the Honda Element discussion). He mentioned this about a week or two ago. I've been bouncing between the Fit/Jazz thread and the Honda Element thread looking for discusisons on this car.

I'm glad Revka opened up this thread -- I had e-mailed Steve in the Vans board to get him to de-archive the Honda Stream thread, but I guess he never did.

As long as we have a place to meet and chat, I'm happy. Thanks for posting that link, Marcb. Topgear magazine from the UK had a great 2-way comparison of the Stream against the Zafira in their Oct 2001 issue. They don't seem to keep it on their site though.

marcb

prefer small efficient vehicles like the Mazda MPV and previous Nissan Axxess. Had an Axxess, currently have an MPV, quite interested with this Latitude and the Jazz, and just look at my flag. Ouch..

raychuang00

In regards to the Honda Latitude (neé Stream), I think the US specs will probably be this:

1. It will have two rows of seating as standard, with the third row as optional (not standard like the European and Japanese market models).

2. The base engine will probably the same engine used on the 2003 Accord--about 160-165 bhp. Honda may redesign the nose of the Stream for the US-market Latitude so it accommodates the 240 bhp V6 from the 2003 Accord.

3. The only transmission choice will be the five-speed automatic from the 2003 Accord.

In short, due to the arrival of the Latitude you are unlikely to see an Accord station wagon for the US market, since the Latitude will take its place.

odman

I like your ideas, but I can't really see Honda deciding it is worth redesigning the Stream for NA. I'd expect the 2.0 litre version to come (150hp), and I actually think the 7 seat version will be standard. The effort of de-contenting it wouldn't be worth it, and I can't see them marketing it just as a big 5-seat wagon. I agree it will likely be an autobox, but probably 4-speed, to keep the cost down.

Remember, back in '98 when they had the chance to install 3.0 V6s (as they were doing in Japan and as every magazine was crying for) in the 1st Gen Odys, they didn't bother.

raychuang00

odman,

I think Honda may do some changes for the US market, since potentially the US market for Latitude (neé Stream) could end up almost the equivalent of the European and Japanese market combined.

Given what I've seen of the Stream from the Japanese market model having three rows of seats and only 160 bhp might not be to American tastes (Americans like engines with more low-end torque and I think three rows of seats may compromise legroom on the back two seating rows). This is why I think the Latitude will probably arrive in the US market with only two rows of seats standard and with a drivetrain lifted from the 2003 Accord, including the V6 option.

casecom2

... I'm a Civic owner and generally a Honda fan, but that is an ugly car. Looks like an Insight on steroids. The headlights look a little Buick Rendezvous-ish with the signal lights over the headlights.

odman

For those of you who are concerned with how a Latitude will fair in an accident, the European NCAP testing group says the Stream does well. It gets 4 stars on Front and Side impact, and 3 stars on pedestrian protection. No other mini-MPV gets ratings as high on both, but a few match on the Front/Side measure, which most people will be more concerned about.

There's good info on the NCAP methodology on their site. Unlike NHSTA, they do off-set barrier crashes, which are more real-world like.

http://www.euroncap.com/details.php3?id=car_100_2001

odman

Styling is subjective, but I agree with casecom2, the headlights aren't very nice, and do resemble the Rendezvous'.

For more pictures, click on the 'Photos' button of this site.

http://www2.netvigator.com/ente/car/newcar/79/newcar_79.html#

jchan2

Hmmm..
Will the Latitude get the 3rd row seat? Will the Latitude pressure rival Toyota to bring over its Ipsum?

dudleyr

Why is 160 hp not enough? This vehicle only weighs a couple hundred pounds more than the Accord Sedan which now has 160 hp, but had 150 last year. With 160 hp the latitude would actually have the same power to weight ratio as the 215 hp v-6 Odyssey. Remember just 3 or 4 years ago the giamongous Suburban only had 200 hp.

Are people planning on drag racing this thing?

My Oasis (first gen Ody) has 140 hp and it has no problem keeping up with traffic. We can set the cruise at 85 and go. Yes it has to down shift when going over the rockies with a full load - so what, it can still go the speed limit.

I just have a hard time getting over this obsession with hp.

raychuang00

I checked out a little more information about the 2004 Latitude.

The Latitude essentially is derived from the same platform that spawned the CR-V. This means the Latitude will use the 2.4-liter L-4 i-VTEC engine now found on the 2002 model year CR-V, meaning 165 bhp and much more low-end torque than the 2.0-liter i-VTEC engine found on JDM and European-market Streams. At least the Latitude won't be a dog-slow car that I worried about had Honda chosen to import it earlier.

artek09

Been eyeing the Stream for some time now, glad to know it would hit our shores soon.

Here are some safety specs.

http://www.osa.go.jp/anzen/html2002e/as130.html

ropedart

Yes the Stream is ugly. But its 2 years old already and that is ancient by Honda standards. I am sure the Honda Design centers in LA and Ohio have worked it over for NA. Right you guys??

We may see the Latitude in Japan in January 2003. The purpose and design is debatable. In Japan it will compete against SCION. Here in NA to compete with SCION or provide a microvan. I am not sure.

zspdr94

Actually, I was the first to report the news of the Civic Stream coming to the US next year back in early June over on The Car Connection future vehicle message board and at CheersandGears. I've always gotten a kick out of seeing the news I broke over at TCC winding up all over the internet and sometimes even magazines with others taking credit and getting changed along the way too.

AH-HA

revka

Just curious, where you get your information regarding the Stream/Latitude? Also, any more news you have to share with us would be appreciated. Thanks for your participation. ;-)

Revka
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ropedart

What took you so long? It was rumoured you moved here after the TCC forum was turning into a mess. The net is really a small world.

odman

Hi AH-HA:

I used to enjoy reading your posts over at TCC until that site was ruined by a bunch of ingnorant morons.

Since you seem to be more in the know, can you tell us whether GM plans to bring its Opel Zafira over here? It would target the same sort of people as the Stream.

odman

I'm all for more power if we can get it, and your arguement for the 2.4 from the CR-V/Element makes sense. I'm not a technical expert, but do you know if the engines are dimensionally similar? Is it a straighforward replacement for the 1.7/2.0?

strager

Having checked out the Stream in person while visiting Japan, I think Honda would be making a mistake by selling it in the U.S. as a cramped 7 seater.

I believe the Latitude will be a 5 seater, to compete with the likes of the Matrix and PT Cruiser, and may include a few styling tweaks to the Stream. It will come with the 2 liter engine on the Stream that makes 154 HP. The Latitude will not be for customers thirsty for horsepower, it's really for people who want a fun Civic class sport wagon.

odman

I think they should bring the 7-seater over and market it the same way it and the Zafira are marketed in Europe -- mainly as 5-seater vehicles with the option for 2 occassional use seats that never have to be taken in or out of the vehicle.

In Europe, if you truly need a 7-seater, you get an Espace, a Sharan, or even a Chrysler Voyager. The Stream, et al, fit the void between a station wagon and these bigger minivans. Even though Renault launched the monocab segment in Europe with its innovative Scenic, the Zafira caught Renault by surprise, and no doubt they are frantically working to squeeze an extra pair of seats into the next Scenic.

I don't think the extra pair of seats will hurt the Latitude. In fact, without them, there's really not much reason for buying a Latitude rather than a 2WD CR-V or an Element, or even a Matrix/Vibe, PT, or ZX5. With 7-seats, they can market it as being the ultimate in personal transportation flexibility without the bulk and stigma of being a minivan.

dudleyr

I agree w/ odman. It needs the 7 seats to really stand out, and if you don't use the two rear seats it will still be a roomy 5 seater. If I wanted 5 seats I would get a traditional station wagon, or a sedan. The two extra seats are great for throwing the neighbor kids in, or for when grandparents visit - they would not be used all the time for most people.

marcb

revka, can we possibly link this to the vans board? 7 seats puts this in that territory. I'm sure some of the van owners will be interested in joining the discussion good or bad.

revka

I'll put in a request... and we'll see how Steve (Van's Host) feels. Okay? Thanks for the suggestion. ;-)

Revka
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odman

I've got a 1st Gen Odyssey with the magic rear seat, and we almost never use it. However, there have been times when Grandma was over that we wanted to go out to a restaurant or book store or someplace, so out pop the seats. The kids get a laugh when I go back there (I'm 6'5") for the short jaunt. I didn't want a big van, and the Odyssey still gave me this flexibility.

dudleyr

I also have a first gen Odyssey (Oasis). One of its biggest advantages is 7 passenger capacity with three in the middle. With the current Odyssey if I need more storage space and fold down the magic seat I could only carry 4 people (would have to leave 1 kid behind). So even thought the first gen Odyssey is smaller, I can carry more luggage etc. with it.

I also like the car doors vs those sliders, and rear windows that go down, better handling, etc. etc.

revka

To get back with an answer: For now, the TH management would like to consider linking this discussion to our new Future Vehicles section instead of to the Van's board. Also, depending on how Edmunds eventually classifies this vehicle, this discussion could possibly be moved to another board (i.e. vans).

In any case, I'm also going to plug this discussion in our linked Station vs Minivan discussion which might draw more participation from the Van's board. Also, if you know any van owners that you think may be interested in this discussion, please send them here.... Thanks for your participation. ;-)

Revka
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strager

If Honda is going after the youth market, the 7 seats will only reinforce the perception that this is a micro-van, and possibly turn them off. On the other hand, if they are marketing it as an entry level minivan to families, 7 seats is the way to go.

I found that even with the third row folded, it reduces the leg room for second row passengers. I'd rather have a roomy second row, and give up the third row for that once in a year occasion when it'll be used. Either way (7 seats or 5 seats), I'm planning to buy! The CR-V is not an option for me. I don't care for the SUV look, not to mention its high level of road noise.

raychuang00

Since the Latitude is based on the Stream sold in Japan and Europe, I don't think there will be much in the way of changes externally with the possible exception of stronger bumpers.

The more I think about it, the more I think the Latitude may have the following:

1. The drivetrain will essentially be derived from the 2003 Honda Accord--2.4-liter L4 i-VTEC engine with a five-speed automatic transmission.

2. The third row of seats may be completely redesigned so it can be easily removed or folded out of the way; the Latitude essentially becomes a roomy "monocab" wagon normally seating five people akin to the Renault Scenic or Opel Zafira.

chris777

if honda has any common sense
latitude must have these qualifications

come in reasonably equipped at under 20 grand

at least pull 160 hp like the crv/accord/element

it must absolutely have 7 passenger seating capacity

otherwise this vehicle has no place coming to north America

I'll loved it when i first saw it and the 5 door civic hatch

but since honda was too coward to bring a 5 door hatch over to America when they should have (in 2001)
and since they are left behind way behind by mazda, ford, toyota, and suzuki at bringing over a compact hatch/wagon

and their apparent current solution is the element
the latitude doesn't make a drop of sense without 7 passenger seating
I hope it does show up don't get me wrong but either it or the 5 door hatch should have been here in 01

I know I'm having a difficult time wait on on the element to decide if I like it enough to purchase one ( I know I have a hard time even wanting to pay much on any of the wide variety of way over priced and under valued vehicles currently on the market) and unless this vehicle shows up in show rooms by march of 03 or the element really impresses the pants of of myself I'll go with a competitor

sometimes it can be too little too late

the accord wagon would likely be a much nicer offering if and when it ever shows up but who knows
maby honda might be trying to diversify their line up and over a wide variety of vehicles (like in the Japanese and European markets) and if this is the case I applaud them and suggest the step wagon (with a bit of exterior re styling)
but unfortunately i currently see little on the market from any auto manufacturer that remotely compels me to shell out even kia and hundai under 10k prices

rcomeau1

I'm with you Chris777. I owned 1991 and 1997 Accord wagons and had hoped for more beyond '97. Gave up in 2001 for a Volvo V40 with poor rear seat space but it will have to do 'till Honda targets an other-than-"twinky" market. Seems Honda is more interested in "quickies" than in long term customer-base building. With all the "what if" discussion about Stream and Lattitude I've taken on a new attitude; I've got to get dependable transportation and get on without Honda.

dudleyr

Agree that the Accord wagon would be a welcome addition. The CRV (which I think Honda considers to take the place of the Accord and Civic wagons) just uses to much gas 21/25 vs 26/34 and does not handle, accelerate or ride as well as an Accord wagon would.

jaserb

I'm new here and was wondering if anyone knows if the Latitude will have the same slick sliding 2nd row the CRV has? Anybody driven / seen the Euro version? Sliding 2nd row + magic 3rd row = possibly my next car.

Thanks in advance,
Jason

ropedart

If you are wondering if Honda will put 7 seats in the Latitude you should check the new VW Touran to be released in Europe in early 2003. It seats 7 with 500 possible arrangements and 39 storage spaces. Forget about the overpriced microbus this is the car for me. No word if it will come to NA. But Honda and VW know the situation better than you think.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/020816-2.htm

odman

I hear that Ford is developing a Focus-based MPV as well. Originally it was to be a 5-seater like the Scenic, but the Zafira sent them (and probably VW) back to the drawing board so it has been late in coming.

With the Latitude (my favourite), the Touran, and a Focus MPV, I'm looking forward to seeing how the North American market responds to this class of car. Hopefully others will be coming too.

dudleyr

I thought there was a link somewhere that said when the latitude would be released, but I can't find it now. Does anybody know/remember?

ropedart

chris777

does anyone know how to convert foreign prices on the stream to approximate US pricing for latitude?

I'd like to see how other foreign Hondas compare to US pricing. Like the crv and civic just to see if we are equal or better hopefully not shafted

ropedart

Quote from auto.com about future Honda NA plans.
"For the last five years, we've focused on light trucks -- sport-utilities and minivans. Ten years ago, we didn't sell any sport-utes or minivans and last year we sold 360,000 and this year we'll sell 425,000. We could use a couple more sport-utility vehicles and maybe a minivan,"

I'll bet he is talking about the Latitude!

odman

I noticed that yesterday too. He seems more convinced about the "couple more SUVs" than the minivan. Hopefully they are still going ahead with it.

With the CR-V, the Element and the Pilot, how can they possibly need a couple more SUVs? Maybe they are planning to go after the Expedition/Suburban market, and then rebadge it as an Acura to compete with the Escalade!!!

odman

While they've trademarked both names, which name does everyone prefer for the new minivan?

Personally, I prefer the name 'Stream' over 'Latitude'. Stream seems more family-friendly, but perhaps it is a bit bland. Latitude seems better if they want to target it at the youth market. Latitude would have been a good name for the Element, given the 'attitude' of its target market, but that's water under the bridge.

What does everyone think?