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Honda should bring over the HR-V to compete against the Scion xB and to give young buyers a chance to drive a crossover utility vehicle but not have to spend $20-$30K on a CR-V/VUE/Escape/Tribute/Freelander. The Latitude would give a chance for Honda to gain back some marketshare it lost when the first Odyssey came over and for a chance for Honda to tell Toyota to catch up or get lost. The Jazz and 5 door Civic Hatch would be great over here, giving teens the chance to drive a brand new car going into college instead of buying a crapped-out Kia Rio or Hyundai Accent. The City would do well, since the Echo would finally get some competition. The JDM Odyssey would look like a competitor to Ford's upcoming Freestyle and maybe a dressed-down version of the Pacifica. (Maybe have the 2+2(+2)) seating arrangement of the Pacifica. The Latitude would be good for people who live in New York or some crowded American city so that it would be easier to park and drive around the city, since so many cities have those tiny compact car parking spaces. And while we're at it, Honda, bring back the CR-X....................
I certainly wouldn't complain if Honda brought out a new CR-X........saw a sketch of one on the MAG-X site a year or so ago....looked pretty cool. Just read a long term update of the Element in Autoweek.......chief complaint was limit of 4 seats, and when you do have all seats filled, there's not alot of room for your stuff. A Jazzed-up Latitude might be the answer if you need to carry both people & stuff....I realize with 6-7 passengers, there wouldn't be a ton of room for your stuff but with 4-5, there should be plenty. If the rearmost seat is split and folds away, it increases your options.
Their Sept. issue does say that Honda will bring us the Latitude early next year....shows a pic of the current model. I'm hoping the one we get will be a redesign, or, barring that, a significant freshening (3rd seat should be split/folding, lose the '70's-inspired corduroy-looking uphostery and "Jazz" up the exterior as well. (Bigger wheels 'n tires would also help)
I personally believe that Honda will officially unveil the Latitude at the Detroit International Auto Show in January 2004.
But it won't be based on the current model--it will likely be an all-new model that will use a 2.4-liter I-4 i-VTEC drivetrain rated at 160 to 170 bhp. The Latitude will become the basis for the next-generation Stream model sold in Japan and Europe, but the Latitude will likely have a North American-only interior that only accommodates five passengers due to safety considerations and the need to accommodate American-sized passengers.
Also, the 2005 Latitude will likely be the base design for the next-generation CR-V small SUV that will replace the current model (probably as a 2006 model).
I believe the Latitude will seat 7 - even in the states. The "average" American that may need more room probably won't be interested in the 5 seat version anyway. They would probably want an 'merican pickem up or SUV.
Don't see much point in making the Latitude a 5 seater, as it would really only be comfortable for 4. In making it a 6 seater (2+2+2), it would be comfortable for 4 adults and 2 kids. If the rear seat is split/folding, you could still seat 5 (4 adults + 1 kid, 3 adults + 2 kids or 2 adults + 3 kids) and still have some room for luggage. 4 "captain's-type" chairs + a split/folding 3rd seat is the way to go IMHO. Remember, it's not competing with the Odyssey.... it's for those of us who need occasional multi-passenger capability in a smaller, more economical, more efficient vehicle.
should have a Pacifica style seating with the third row being a "kids only" row that seats 3 kids in a pinch. The 2nd row should have a bench seat optional. Rear A/C controls and Audio Controls would be nice too. And while we're at it, how about a Steptronic Transmission? Then we could shift gears while carrying 4 adults and 3 kids. (Or maybe a Stick Shift- the Steptronic Transmission would be nice for those of us who want the choice of a Manual or Automatic in one car)
did anyone see the blurb in the new motor trend saying the lattidude IS coming next year?
I dont know about anyone else but I'm a bit dissapointed that they waited till 2 yeard before a redesign of the platform to release the stream on our shores
MT isn't always right. This could be just a guess on their part.
I agree -- it makes little sense to bring over a model that will see a limited sales run for two years before being redesigned. Still, Honda could decide to delay Stream redesign until a few years after the next Civic platform is designed. Toyota did the same thing with the Avalon, selling the original version (based on the '92-'96 Camry) into 1999, until the 2000 model came out -- three years after its basic platform (the Camry) had been redsigned. They would only do this if it made sense on a global scale.
I wouldn't be suprised if we get a redesigned Latitude if & when it comes.....Honda has been losing market share at home....the Stream is not doing well there compared to the Toyota Wish + the new Mitsubishi Grandis has just been released as well. The Stream also is not competitive in Europe/Britain. They may release a new or updated version to respond to the intensifying competition. I could really use a Stream/Latitude/Wish/Grandis this week. Our small family of 3 is expecting 3 nieces as guests for the next two weeks or so. So this means we will have to take 2 cars with 3 people each, as opposed to a Latitude or similar vehicle that could easily accomodate 6. Unlike a ponderous minivan that makes no sense for a family of 3, the beauty of a Latitude-type vehicle is that it makes perfect sense for a small family like ours while offering additional passenger capacity when you need it.
Sadly, I would not be surprised if the Lat did not have more than 5 seats. I see as one answer to Scion. Safety standards are getting so high in America 7 seats may be hard to certify. However, if the Asian or European Lat comes with 7 seats I know I can get 7 seats in myself somehow. Not worried there is always a way. Just don't make it cute looking. I kinda like the new angular Sienna.
7 seats in the old Nissan Axxess was not comfortable or popular. I would have bought one if it was still being made.
are the same in concept and purpose, so it might have a chance of being certified. The Taurus wagon did it, remember? It has seven seats in a pinch and passed government safety standards with flying colors. the UK standards for safety and emissions are much stricter than our standards anyways, so if the latitiude could be certified in Britain, than it could be certified in North America. Also, Honda has one of the best safety engineering teams in the world. (Almost all Hondas are 5 star rated, except the Insight, which I have no clue. Not too sure about the Civic either, but the Accord, Odyssey, Pilot, and CR-V are pretty safe. The only car that concerns me a little is the Element.)
I'm over here in Paris for a few weeks. Saw a Stream and it looks more appealing in real life then in pictures, but they do seem pretty rare. Also saw 2 VW Tourans (just came out) which look way bigger and blockier then it's 173". Looks a little SUV ish so maybe NA will get it. There seems to be nothing but vehicles of this genre over here. Almost nothing with a trunk to be seen. for what it's worth....
I just got back from Europe myself. I agree about the amazing variety of hatches and small vans.
I think the Honda Civic is the best selling car in Canada and the Camry is the best selling car in the US. It didn't look like Honda/Toyota had nearly the domination in Europe that they do in N. Am.
You see lots of cars like Peugeots and Alfa Romeos that tried and failed in the US.
Pretty nearly all makers have something the size of the Stream.
The current issue of Automotive News says that the Civic gets redesigned in 2006 (keeps the hated Mac-struts) and that the re-designed Stream will follow to North America in 2007. AN thinks it will be a 5-passenger model to compete with Matrix. There will be room in Honda's line up for it, as the Odyssey grows a bit bigger (!) in 2005.
It also says the Fit/Jazz may come in 2006, when it gets redesigned, but only if Honda decides it needs a Scion-competing youth division.
This is all a long time for us to keep sitting here wondering...
We'll be ready to buy in mid 2005, so it looks like there won't be any Honda's on our shopping list. Odyssey....too big (and getting bigger) and too expensive (same for MDX and Pilot), Element... only 4 passenger & limited cargo when seats in use CR-V....too small wheel's 'n tires, clumsy opening rear door/external spare tire combo. Stream/Latitude would've been perfect. (and the Jazz for a 2nd car/commuter would rock!). BTW, seeing alot of your 1st gen Odysseys on the road, odman......could be an option, but by 2005, they'll be minimum 6 yrs old.
A '98 Odyssey like mine would be a great interim car. It might be older, but that's not a risk. Last year's JD Power Long-Term Durability survey rated the '98 Ody as the most problem-free minivan, and Consumer Reports rates it highly too. Ours has 115k on the clock and we haven't had a single problem.
'98s have the VTEC engine which makes a world of difference performance wise. It gets great fuel economy and handles very well. It drives "small", yet has more usable passenger room than a Caravan. It is ideal for suburban-urban families of 4 or 5. I got the 2-2-2 seating configuration but the 2-3-2 would have been a smarter choice.
I like the 2+2+2 but, ideally, the rearmost seat should be split so you can seat 5 but have some cargo space too. (Future designers, take note) Was '98 the last year for the 1st gen ody, odman?
2007? That can't be right? Isn't it now a stretched Fit/Jazz. So it should be out of sync with Civic changes. I'll wait for Jan at Detroit show for news. I don't know what to buy for my wife now. Maybe the VW Touran if it gets here. Of course that is after the launch of the expensive microbus. I hope they sell the mini-microbus being offered europe only. Only after they finish soaking the NA boomers with the microbus.
Oh, I have an Element right now(amazing). Mine seats 5 now(long story). Stuff can go in front and under the rear seats like coolers and bags. You can drop the tailgate to carry long/longer things(watch CO). I have no safety issues with the Element. Its relative. In fact I feel small and naked in my wife's Civic.
Yes, '98 was the last year for the 1st Gen Ody. In the USA, Isuzu sold the Oasis (identical to the Ody) in 1999 as well, but that was never available in Canada. We were originally going to get a '99 CR-V, but I convinced my wife to try the Ody and she loved it. In fact, to replace our other car we looked at CR-V again and felt it was underpowered, noisy, sloppy handling, and inefficient use of space compared to the Ody. The only advantage it offered was AWD, which the Odys in Asia have.
With no Stream/Latitude on the horizon, I was thinking of getting a '94-'95 Nissan Axxess (maybe one with AWD) as a beater vehicle to replace my Tercel. I see lots of old Civic Wagovans around too, but they are getting very old and most have rust. A Vibe/Matrix is okay, but I'd prefer a 3rd row of temporary seating. I really wish Honda would hurry up with the Stream.
I think Ropedart's referring to the article in AutoExpress that said a stretched version of the Fit/Jazz was being developed to replace the uncompetitive, slow-selling Stream. It is said to be about the size of VW's Touran. These type of vehicles make the most sense for me....space and fuel efficient, economical, spacious for 4 + cargo but able to carry 6-7 in a pinch. In fact, my only concern or caveat with these vehicles is load-carrying ability. Presumably, a vehicle designed to carry 6-7 with some cargo would have a beefy enough suspension so that the rear isn't dragging on the ground when fully loaded. That's the problem with our Aerio SX....when full with my wife, son & I and all our camping gear, it rides pretty low in the rear. I couldn't even think about hanging our bikes on the back when we go camping.
Oh, my mistake. I remember hearing about the AE article but haven't seen the pictures that were in it. A Fit/Jazz-derived based Stream could be possible, but that platform might be too narrow/small. It would suggest a 1.5 litre engine at the most, which would be too anemic for that sort of vehicle in North America.
Since Matrix/Vibe are Corolla based, and since the current Stream is Civic-based as well, I would expect the next Stream to be Civic based. Honda might be looking at making the next Fit/Jazz a SHRUNKEN derivative of the next Civic. Just a thought though.
Hate to be spoiler but I think the Lat will be answer to the Scion xA. So think small and cheap and sporty. So only 5 seats but flexible interior. And the HRV would be an answer for the Scion xB. Also small and cheap. The Element is too expensive for young people.
I know many of you want the size and 7 seats but I don't think its going to happen. Hope I'm wrong.
As reported before the Stream and HRV are not great sellers so expect them to change or morph into something more successful. My .02c
The HR-V could use Honda's 2.0 engine from the Latitude and then the latitide needs that 160 Horsepower 2.4 liter. Any ideas if we might get a fast Latitude with the corporate 3.0L, 240 HP?
mag-x.com under japanese is saying something about a Full Model Change (FMC) for the Stream. Picture is of the old Stream though. Sorry I don't read Japanese and I don't subscribe. Maybe TOV can interpret.
FMC would be great....pic does look like the current one, though the grill & headlights are slightly altered. Unfortunately, my Japanese is about as good as yours, Ropedart! So it does sound like a new Stream is on the way, possibly based on an enlarged version of the Jazz platform, as AUTOExpress UK mentioned. Sure wish we could get some solid info/pictures.
While the 3rd row seat Highlander looks attractive, even a base 4 cyl/FWD 5 seater with Automatic is priced higher than a base Honda Odyssey ($32,300 vs $32,200). A Latitude should be priced around the mid-20's here in the great white north.
I am currently driving an Odyssey, but I prefer SUV or smaller vehicle such as Latitude, because 90% of time, I am the only person in the car (driving an Odyssey really makes me feel waste of passenger space). Also, considering price, it is relatively more reasonable comparing with Pilot. In Canada, I think the base model 2004 Highlander will be around the price of a base Honda Odyssey. (Highlander 2003 base model is $32,330 based on toyota.ca website, and the price for that model of 2004 won't change)
Seems to be just a freshening.....much like Honda is doing this year with the Civic line....new bumpers, tailights, headlights but not much else. The tiny pic in Mag-X shows it to be the same model, albeit with the new grill, lights etc. Need more pix to see if it's an improvement, but like you, ropedart, the curved "D" pillar has never appealed to me. Still, any kind of Stream/Latitude would be welcome in North America. Honda, we're still waiting!
Highlander and other larger SUVs are too pricey, but the CR-V/Element probably come closest to what most of us want -- smaller, lighter, more nimble and more fuel efficient, but the CR-V lacks rear jump seats. Also, being SUV oriented, it has a higher floor which robs interior space. I prefer the greater interior space of a lower floor & high roof design that minivans offer.
I suppose the Mazda MPV is the only other small van available, but I don't see too many of us clamouring for that one either.
I couldn't see a decent profile shot on that New Stream site. Is there one available? Sorry, I don't understand a word of Japanese, so I can't figure out the site navigation too well.
is because they've seen how many MPVs have sold. Not too many compared to their MAXI-van Odyssey. But still, It'd be nice to have something in size like the Latitude with three row of seats like the old Odyssey. WE'RE AWAITING, HONDA.....
Actually, we're seriously considering an MPV the next time we buy. It's the only minivan we'd truly consider, as it is the only true "minivan" out there.....Odyssey, Sienna, Quest, Windstar/Freestar, Grand Caravan etc. are all way too big. Don't think much of the short wheelbase Caravan or Montana etc. and Kia Sedona is heavier and more fuel-thirsty than it needs to be. Even the MPV could stand some improvement in gas mileage, + it really needs a split-folding third seat like the new Sienna. Still would prefer a Latitude/Stream over any of these, however, or a Toyota Wish, Mitsubishi Grandis or Mazda4 (to be based on the Ford C-Max but with 7 seats). BTW, you do see a fair number of MPV's in Canada. I think Canadian's appreciate their more compact size and lower price-of-entry than the Toyota and Honda products. They seem to be selling quite well here.
I don't believe Honda will bring a 7 seat Stream at all to the US. For no other reason than it's not SUPERSIZED with a 250 HP engine- that's a requirement in the US to transport the family to McDonalds so they can have their supersized sandwiches, fries and soft drinks. While I won't drive those huge vehicles that they call 'minivans' nowadays, I'm in a minority.
Personally, I'd love to get a Scion xB or Nissan Cube - that is a really cool car!
The Odyssey is already supersized with 250 hp (or thereabouts). The Latitude/Stream is for those of us who don't want a super-sized vehicle (or fries or drinks, for that matter. A smaller market, maybe, but a market Honda shouldn't ignore. Honda's sales are down here in Canada while Toyota's are up. One reason is Toyota's much more complete lineup vs. Honda's. Toyota's already on the ball with their Echo hatch (Honda, where's the Jazz?). Honda still has no vehicle to compete with the Matrix etc. etc. It's time Honda started filling in the holes in it's lineup.
The current generation Japanese market Odyssey is an update of the old first one (the American Odyssey is sold in tiny volumes there as the "La Great"). This article says that the JDM Odyssey will be redesigned very shortly. Not much chance of it coming here, but we can only wish...
I agree that Honda needs a smaller people mover like the Matrix or Stream. Because the Stream looks like a minivan, in the US at least customers will start comparing it with larger minivans with more power and more room, just like they did with the original Odyssey. I've sat in a Stream in Japan, and found it more cramped than the Toyota bB (Scion xB).
I think it's more likely that Honda will bring the redesigned HR-V in the next 1-2 years as their competitor to the Matrix. Incidentally, I found the Scion xB to be an incredibly roomy, compact vehicle. It's the perfect microvan, although it seats only 5. Ditto the Nissan Cube.
It all depends on the price that Honda wants for a 7 seat Latitude. If actual selling prices (not MSRP) are around $16-17K, I can see a market in the US. If it's around 20K, then customers who really want a van may think they're better off buying perhaps the MPV with more power and more room. In California, I see MPVs regularly advertised for less than $18K.
If I was in the market for a microvan, I would be happy with the Honda Mobilio or even a Nissan Cube Cubic. Although both of these have close to zero luggage space, they could seat 7 passengers (mostly children) in a pinch.
Comments
Just read a long term update of the Element in Autoweek.......chief complaint was limit of 4 seats, and when you do have all seats filled, there's not alot of room for your stuff. A Jazzed-up Latitude might be the answer if you need to carry both people & stuff....I realize with 6-7 passengers, there wouldn't be a ton of room for your stuff but with 4-5, there should be plenty.
If the rearmost seat is split and folds away, it increases your options.
But it won't be based on the current model--it will likely be an all-new model that will use a 2.4-liter I-4 i-VTEC drivetrain rated at 160 to 170 bhp. The Latitude will become the basis for the next-generation Stream model sold in Japan and Europe, but the Latitude will likely have a North American-only interior that only accommodates five passengers due to safety considerations and the need to accommodate American-sized passengers.
Also, the 2005 Latitude will likely be the base design for the next-generation CR-V small SUV that will replace the current model (probably as a 2006 model).
it's for those of us who need occasional multi-passenger capability in a smaller, more economical, more efficient vehicle.
That would be fine with me.
I dont know about anyone else but I'm a bit dissapointed that they waited till 2 yeard before a redesign of the platform to release the stream on our shores
I agree -- it makes little sense to bring over a model that will see a limited sales run for two years before being redesigned. Still, Honda could decide to delay Stream redesign until a few years after the next Civic platform is designed. Toyota did the same thing with the Avalon, selling the original version (based on the '92-'96 Camry) into 1999, until the 2000 model came out -- three years after its basic platform (the Camry) had been redsigned. They would only do this if it made sense on a global scale.
I could really use a Stream/Latitude/Wish/Grandis this week. Our small family of 3 is expecting 3 nieces as guests for the next two weeks or so.
So this means we will have to take 2 cars with 3 people each, as opposed to a Latitude or similar vehicle that could easily accomodate 6. Unlike a ponderous minivan that makes no sense for a family of 3, the beauty of a Latitude-type vehicle is that it makes perfect sense for a small family like ours while offering additional passenger capacity when you need it.
7 seats in the old Nissan Axxess was not comfortable or popular. I would have bought one if it was still being made.
I think the Honda Civic is the best selling car in Canada and the Camry is the best selling car in the US. It didn't look like Honda/Toyota had nearly the domination in Europe that they do in N. Am.
You see lots of cars like Peugeots and Alfa Romeos that tried and failed in the US.
Pretty nearly all makers have something the size of the Stream.
It also says the Fit/Jazz may come in 2006, when it gets redesigned, but only if Honda decides it needs a Scion-competing youth division.
This is all a long time for us to keep sitting here wondering...
only 4 passenger & limited cargo when seats in use
CR-V....too small wheel's 'n tires, clumsy opening rear door/external spare tire combo.
Stream/Latitude would've been perfect. (and the Jazz for a 2nd car/commuter would rock!).
BTW, seeing alot of your 1st gen Odysseys on the road, odman......could be an option, but by 2005, they'll be minimum 6 yrs old.
'98s have the VTEC engine which makes a world of difference performance wise. It gets great fuel economy and handles very well. It drives "small", yet has more usable passenger room than a Caravan. It is ideal for suburban-urban families of 4 or 5. I got the 2-2-2 seating configuration but the 2-3-2 would have been a smarter choice.
Was '98 the last year for the 1st gen ody, odman?
Oh, I have an Element right now(amazing). Mine seats 5 now(long story). Stuff can go in front and under the rear seats like coolers and bags. You can drop the tailgate to carry long/longer things(watch CO). I have no safety issues with the Element. Its relative. In fact I feel small and naked in my wife's Civic.
With no Stream/Latitude on the horizon, I was thinking of getting a '94-'95 Nissan Axxess (maybe one with AWD) as a beater vehicle to replace my Tercel. I see lots of old Civic Wagovans around too, but they are getting very old and most have rust. A Vibe/Matrix is okay, but I'd prefer a 3rd row of temporary seating. I really wish Honda would hurry up with the Stream.
Since Matrix/Vibe are Corolla based, and since the current Stream is Civic-based as well, I would expect the next Stream to be Civic based. Honda might be looking at making the next Fit/Jazz a SHRUNKEN derivative of the next Civic. Just a thought though.
I know many of you want the size and 7 seats but I don't think its going to happen. Hope I'm wrong.
As reported before the Stream and HRV are not great sellers so expect them to change or morph into something more successful. My .02c
I still don't like that C or D pillar.
http://www.honda.co.jp/STREAM/change/index.html
The tiny pic in Mag-X shows it to be the same model, albeit with the new grill, lights etc.
Need more pix to see if it's an improvement, but like you, ropedart, the curved "D" pillar has never appealed to me. Still, any kind of Stream/Latitude would be welcome in North America.
Honda, we're still waiting!
I suppose the Mazda MPV is the only other small van available, but I don't see too many of us clamouring for that one either.
Even the MPV could stand some improvement in gas mileage, + it really needs a split-folding third seat like the new Sienna. Still would prefer a Latitude/Stream over any of these, however, or a Toyota Wish, Mitsubishi Grandis or Mazda4 (to be based on the Ford C-Max but with 7 seats).
BTW, you do see a fair number of MPV's in Canada.
I think Canadian's appreciate their more compact size and lower price-of-entry than the Toyota and Honda products. They seem to be selling quite well here.
Personally, I'd love to get a Scion xB or Nissan Cube - that is a really cool car!
http://www.asahi.com/english/business/K2003090600263.html
I think it's more likely that Honda will bring the redesigned HR-V in the next 1-2 years as their competitor to the Matrix. Incidentally, I found the Scion xB to be an incredibly roomy, compact vehicle. It's the perfect microvan, although it seats only 5. Ditto the Nissan Cube.
If I was in the market for a microvan, I would be happy with the Honda Mobilio or even a Nissan Cube Cubic. Although both of these have close to zero luggage space, they could seat 7 passengers (mostly children) in a pinch.