Automotive News says that Tom Elliott of Honda is hinting that Honda may find a place for the new JDM Odyssey based on the strong positive response in Japan. I'm speculating that Acura will announce that at the NY show in April for Fall 2004 intro in the US.
civicw......I caught that article in the Automotive news too re: the JDM Odyssey. My only concern is where they place it in the lineup. If they call it an Acura, it'll be out of my price range and even more expensive than the North American Odyssey. There's another reference to it in this article as well......says Honda would be foolish not to consider it for our market. http://www.cars.com/carsapp/detnews/?tf=/index.tmpl&act=displ- ay&srv=parser&sf=/default_frameset.tmpl
jimjps.......Like your "Element" variant. The perfect Element for me would be as you described. I'd even take sliding doors vs. conventional ones. Make it a 2+3+2 seater like the Stream/Latitude (it would be even more accomodating, as it's wider and boxier)....make all seats fold flat to the floor and back them with that urethane flooring material.....the perfect family camper!
I'm leaning hard towards the 05MY Subaru Legacy wagon or OB wagon for late summer/early fall 2004 purchase but a JDM Odyssey would have me test driving both.
Bring the JDM Odyssey to NA as the Honda Latitude. Make all the airbags and ABS standard on both the LX and EX trims. Leaving off most of the fancy extra Japanese features then this could slot in under the bit too expensive for me ocean liner NA Odyssey. At the moment it is hard to picture an Acura minivan. The fully loaded Japanese version has the content but if the styling was more along the lines of the European Accord Tourer then maybe. The Temple thinks it is not coming because it has a 4 banger but the CR-V, Element, Civic, and many Accords seem alright with theirs. Would be nice but I'm not holding my breath.
Maybe the JDM Honda Odyssey is the Honda Latitude that will be coming to the US market as a 2005 model? The fact it will use the drivetrain very similar to that of the current Honda Accord and probably will use the current Accord's five-speed automatic means not only is the new JDM Odyssey the Latitude model we'll get, but it could become the basis for the next-generation Honda CR-V and eventually the second-generation Honda Element! :-)
My guess is that the Latitude may have a somewhat roomier interior than the new JDM Odyssey since it will only have two rows of seats (in order to accommodate American-sized drivers and passengers).
I wonder is the new JDM Odyssey capable of accepting the 3.0-liter V-6 engine from the US-market Accord? If it does, the Latitude could end up being a hot-selling machine indeed.
Sounds like Honda wasn't planning on giving us the JDM Odyssey but might have to reconsider, given the incredible reaction to it in Tokyo. Hope they lose some of the JDM gizmo content (power tailgate & power rear-folding seat, laser cruise etc. but keep the 7 seat layout. 4 banger is available in 160 & 200 hp versions, so that should be fine. 5 speed auto should keep the pricepoint lower than the 7 speed CVT. Am still kind of lukewarm on the looks, but as with most Honda's, they seem to look better "in the flesh".
Honda could just add a pair of small bucket seats to the CR-V. Cost effective for Honda, and cost effective for the consumer. You get that SUV image too.....
I've always liked the CR-V....give it a split tailgate like the Element, get the spare off the rear door and drop in a split-folding/fold-flat third seat and I'd be happy. On another note, here's the autoweek detail on the JDM Odyssey: http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=09268867 I have to agree with the Nissan official...not sure if dropping the "vantage point" is my cup-of-tea either.
add $995 for the seats and make leather an option, and you have the perfect CUV/Wagon that slots UNDER the Odyssey. Read somewhere that Acura will start producing a luxury CR-V, called RDX. The bucket seats might work for Acura too. I think I read it in Motor Trend. The JDM Odyssey looks nice too, with the lowered roof.
Not sure what this is but MagX has a pic of a vehicle that has the grille/lights of a Wish but with blacked-out B & C pillars and sliding doors with visible tracks. A refreshed Wish? http://www.mag-x.com/index_ie_j.html
Civic4, I have to say that your logic is very sound. The only way I can see Honda bringing in the JDM Odyssey is to badge it as an Acura as you suggested. This solves the problems I mentioned. The premium pricing that a Japanese made import necessitates is consistent with the Acura market. Being priced on the high side it won't draw too many sales from the big profitable NA Odyssey, yet it should sell reasonably well; after all, it is no doubt another japanese-made gem and by golly it looks like an Acura. It would capture some of the microvan sales, requires minimal tooling, keeps the Honda/Acura image at a high level and is not a conflict when the new Civic/Stream platform debuts. I hope Honda likes this idea too.
I speculated in post 431 that this pic might be a refreshed Wish......actually, if you go to the properties of the pic, it seems to be called a gaia (the Mazda 3 pics properties say axela and the other vehicle shown is a majesta). So maybe it's just another in the neverending "stream" of small people-movers in Japan.... Just checked and the Gaia is indeed a Toyota model....launched in 1998, so this must be the next generation. The new one (see link in post 431) does look like the Wish, but with sliders. Note that the old one http://www.autoindex.org/bodies.plt?no=1431 has conventioal doors.
If other luxury makes start doing crossovers, then I think the JDM Odyssey as an Acura might make sense. I think Mercedes has been showing one.
A "city" version of the Element might be interesting - less plastic and more seats maybe. Painted fenders - they keep showing this on the show circuit, will they do it?
I have never liked the spare on the rear of the CR-V. They do a CR-V in Japan without it. No external spare and a real bumper - it used to have one, does it still?
I priced a BMW X3 3.0i on the website and with the following options comes to $45,795: Metallic Paint Gray Montana Leather Sport Package STEPTRONIC Automatic Power Glass panorama sunroof Park Distance Control (front and rear) Power folding mirrors On Board Navigation System Talk about a lot of $$$$$$$.
Over at the Temple there are a few pics of the JDM ODY in San Francisco. Got real excited at first till I realized it was for a Japanese TV commercial and not for NA testing. Bummer, still think this would make a nice Latitude.
I say very clever. Why take it to a car show when you can park it on street and see how many people take their checkbooks out? TV commercial as a excuse I say. Take it to the mall and see what happens. I say its coming.
The JDM Ody does hold some appeal for us, probably even more than the Stream/Latitude, but only if it's priced below the "Lagreat/NAM Odyssey. BTW, the JDM Ody is almost exactly the same size as the Mitsubish (so far JDM only) Grandis. The current Stream/Latitude will only have appeal when it receives a full makeover. (the freshening helped a bit, but it's a bit like putting more makeup on someone who's already pretty ugly to start with)
although I still expect the JDM Odyssey to be introduced as an Acura at the NY show in April.
Looks like Honda is really focusing on the truck market. They must feel that vehicles like the Latitude, Fit etc don't make a good business case for the US market. I don't find anything that Honda offers in the US very exciting. On the other hand, Toyota offers several interesting hatchbacks: Matrix, Scion xA and xB.
I think the reason why Honda hasn't decided to bring the Latitude over to the US market is the fear it might take away sales from the Honda Element, which is derived from the Honda CR-V.
I do think, though, that we may see a CVT on the Element very soon, especially since the JDM Odyssey already has this as an option. And the JDM Odyssey's drivetrain is almost the same drivetrain as the one found on the Element.
Looks like Honda is much more interested in the SUT announcement than bringing over the Latitude. Toyota did the same with their main introduction being the Scion tC. No WISH! Guess we will just have to wait or look at other products.. Very disappointed!!
The new Stream is not good enough for NA. I don't think its even good enough for Japan but we will see. The Scion line of xA, xB and now xT will eat away at Civic sales. They need a revamped Stream, Jazz and Mobilio to get GenY back. The Latitude should be a Jazz/Stream answer to the xA,xT. They could bring a Mobilio to answer the xB but the small box may be a fad that may fade quickly. The more expensive Element may actually go more upscale, larger to address the needs of well heeled Boomers who hijacked it because of its utility. Honda cannot resist the SUV market. No one can there's too much money to be made.
Nissan may bring the Cube Cubic over to answer the Scion line. It seats now 6 but with safety in mind it probably only seat 4 for NA. However, I know I could get the extra parts for the other 2 seats from Japan. I read Nissan has trademarked the Cube name in NA if that means anything. What does Nissan have for GenY anyway? The Sentra? Boring! Bring back the Axxess!
for us looking for a nice sized sport wagon or minivan. The JDM Ody may be the answer IF they bring it here as an Acura. Another possibility could be with Scion. The tC is based on the Avensis platform. Maybe that will have Toyota place the Avensis Wagon in the Scion line between the Matrix and Sienna? The Latitude/Stream may be a dead issue for the NA market.
...lately has been with North American sized offerings such as the Odyssey, MDX and Pilot, and I'm sure the new SUT will be a hit as well. Although the Civic remains one of the top selling cars in Canada (where compacts do really well), they don't seem to have any new ideas or innovation on the small car front. If I was shopping for a compact right now, my #1 choice would be a Mazda3 (and note that it comes both as a 4 door sedan and a 5 door hatch...where's the Civic 5 door?) Honda has nothing to compete with the Matrix/Vibe/Aerio, and no sub-Civic offering to compete with the Echo hatch, Scions, Aveo/Swift+ and the Korean entries, not to mention the cool Mazda MX-Micro Sport that may be coming here as well. And the Scion tc 2+2 hatch/coupe (with 160-200hp!!!)could really take over from where Honda's long lost CRX left off. It's as if Honda has given up on the small car market. All they have is the reliable but boring Civic sedan/coupe and the overpriced, underpowered, undertired Civic Si(R). They need to give us the Jazz, the Civic 5 door + a Jazz-inspired small people carrier/crossover to get back in the game. A sporty, affordable CRX-type vehicle would be nice as well.
Toyota has seen fit to redesign their Corolla Verso and make it a 7 seater. http://www.autoindex.org/news.plt?no=719 Kinda makes you wonder why they need the Wish too. Anyway, to my eyes, it's one of the nicest looking compact MPV's, and one I wouldn't mind having here in Canada (the VW Touran and Mazda4 would also fit the bill). With more automakers recognizing that Canada' needs are unique and somewhat different than the USA (witness the Canada only Echo hatch and now Nissan's X-Trail for two), maybe Toyota will recognize that their are a lot of Canadians for whom the Matrix is a bit small but the $30,000-and-up extra-large Sienna is both too costly and too big. The newly-redesigned Corolla Verso would fill that gap rather nicely.
Too bad at least for now. I didn't see any mention that the Corolla Verso is planned to NA shores. I still hope the WISH will come...maybe as an updated Matrix!!
I like the Avensis Verso better- it's a tid bit roomier than either the Latitude or WISH. But in Hong Kong, the Stream is positioned as a Toyota Picnic (aka Avensis Verso) competitor.
My guess right now is that Honda has decided NOT to bring over the Latitude because they will unveil the replacement for the CR-V small SUV within the next 18 months. Given that that Honda Stream is built on the same platform as the CR-V, that means we could see the Latitude (based on the next-generation CR-V platform) at the next Detroit International Auto Show in January 2005, and the vehicle will be sold as a 2006 model. And that could mean the Latitude will use a next-generation 2.4-liter I-4 i-VTEC engine rated at around 175 bhp and the transmission choices will be five-speed manual and CVT automatic.
The Latitude doesn't really exist yet. The concept is that it will be a modification of the non-NA Stream which is related to the CRV and Element. Or you can say it would be CRV/Element running gear and platform configured more like a Stream (microvan). But it doesn't exist yet. Surprising to some people, Honda is not really that big in Japan or Europe. They are overshadowed by Toyota and Nissan in Japan but they are very big in North America. They are weak in Europe as well. For example, I saw one Stream in France and in the same time I saw 10 VW Tourans which had just come out. As for me, there are other manufacturers who I think will fulfill the Latitude concept in NA before Honda. The Mazda4 is right on the money and Mazda is playing to this market now and has nothing to loose. The VW Touran is a superb execution of the microvan but the problem is when it will be delivered here and where will they make them? The Ford C-Max design also betters the Stream in my opinion. (but I am wary of a NA manufactured Ford.) Don't leave the Koreans out of the picture, they have nothing to loose and their cars are improving rapidly. I think many people given the option of a good Latitude type of design would realize they don't need an Odyssey and it would possibly only detract from Honda's profit, short term. Our family owns only Hondas but I have given up on Honda to make a Latitude or Stream for NA. The only ray of hope is that Honda could bring in the JDM Odyssey as an Acura. But I will gladly jump ship to Mazda or VW or whoever delivers the goods.
How do you know the Mazda4 is "right on the money"? It's high on my list of wants, too, but I haven't seen anything concrete (in print or photos). Just saw a drawing of the Mazda Flexa concept to be shown in Geneva next month.... It does look very promising but it's hard to tell if it's actually the 4 (Like the Mx Sportif was the 3) or if it is, in fact, Mazda6-based. It seems to be a six seater from what I can gather. Anyway, I agree that Honda has dropped the ball w.r.t. small cars in general in North America. No Stream/Latitude in the forseeable future, no Protege5/Mazda3Sport, Matrix/Vibe competitor, no Jazz to combat Scion/Echo hatchback etc., an uncompetitive SiR and a Civic in general that is being eclipsed by the Focus(in handling), by just about everyone in h.p. and overall, by the Mazda3.
The article seems to indicate it's built off the 6 platform but another source I read said it was the new Mazda4. It does look really close to some computer-generated spy photos that were making the rounds awhile back. Other spy photos purportedly to be the new 4 look more like the revised Toyota Corolla Verso, so this "MX-Flexa" may indeed be the new 4. I guess we'll just have to wait until Geneva to find out. ....and now, back to the non-news about the Latitude
I saw a good detailed pix of the Mazda4 (albeit probably computer generated). Sounded like EU introduction is planned. I will try to dig up the address tonight. It sounded closer to the Mazda3 then the 6, but I think the 3 and 6 share some parts anyway.
Comments
If they call it an Acura, it'll be out of my price range and even more expensive than the North American Odyssey. There's another reference to it in this article as well......says Honda would be foolish not to consider it for our market.
http://www.cars.com/carsapp/detnews/?tf=/index.tmpl&act=displ- ay&srv=parser&sf=/default_frameset.tmpl
jimjps.......Like your "Element" variant. The perfect Element for me would be as you described.
I'd even take sliding doors vs. conventional ones.
Make it a 2+3+2 seater like the Stream/Latitude
(it would be even more accomodating, as it's wider and boxier)....make all seats fold flat to the floor and back them with that urethane flooring material.....the perfect family camper!
http://www.honda.co.jp/ODYSSEY/
http://world.honda.com/news/2003/4031017_2.html
http://world.honda.com/Tokyo2003/auto/odyssey/index.html
Bring the JDM Odyssey to NA as the Honda Latitude. Make all the airbags and ABS standard on both the LX and EX trims. Leaving off most of the fancy extra Japanese features then this could slot in under the bit too expensive for me ocean liner NA Odyssey. At the moment it is hard to picture an Acura minivan. The fully loaded Japanese version has the content but if the styling was more along the lines of the European Accord Tourer then maybe. The Temple thinks it is not coming because it has a 4 banger but the CR-V, Element, Civic, and many Accords seem alright with theirs. Would be nice but I'm not holding my breath.
My guess is that the Latitude may have a somewhat roomier interior than the new JDM Odyssey since it will only have two rows of seats (in order to accommodate American-sized drivers and passengers).
I wonder is the new JDM Odyssey capable of accepting the 3.0-liter V-6 engine from the US-market Accord? If it does, the Latitude could end up being a hot-selling machine indeed.
Hope they lose some of the JDM gizmo content (power tailgate & power rear-folding seat, laser cruise etc. but keep the 7 seat layout. 4 banger is available in 160 & 200 hp versions, so that should be fine. 5 speed auto should keep the pricepoint lower than the 7 speed CVT. Am still kind of lukewarm on the looks, but as with most Honda's, they seem to look better "in the flesh".
On another note, here's the autoweek detail on the JDM Odyssey:
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=09268867
I have to agree with the Nissan official...not sure if dropping the "vantage point" is my cup-of-tea either.
http://www.mag-x.com/index_ie_j.html
Just checked and the Gaia is indeed a Toyota model....launched in 1998, so this must be the next generation. The new one (see link in post 431) does look like the Wish, but with sliders. Note that the old one http://www.autoindex.org/bodies.plt?no=1431 has conventioal doors.
A "city" version of the Element might be interesting - less plastic and more seats maybe. Painted fenders - they keep showing this on the show circuit, will they do it?
I have never liked the spare on the rear of the CR-V. They do a CR-V in Japan without it. No external spare and a real bumper - it used to have one, does it still?
Metallic Paint
Gray Montana Leather
Sport Package
STEPTRONIC Automatic
Power Glass panorama sunroof
Park Distance Control (front and rear)
Power folding mirrors
On Board Navigation System
Talk about a lot of $$$$$$$.
http://world.honda.com/news/2003/4031127.html
It would be nice if it came to the states. Let's see what shows up at the NAIAS next month..
Looks like Honda is really focusing on the truck market. They must feel that vehicles like the Latitude, Fit etc don't make a good business case for the US market. I don't find anything that Honda offers in the US very exciting. On the other hand, Toyota offers several interesting hatchbacks: Matrix, Scion xA and xB.
I do think, though, that we may see a CVT on the Element very soon, especially since the JDM Odyssey already has this as an option. And the JDM Odyssey's drivetrain is almost the same drivetrain as the one found on the Element.
Nissan may bring the Cube Cubic over to answer the Scion line. It seats now 6 but with safety in mind it probably only seat 4 for NA. However, I know I could get the extra parts for the other 2 seats from Japan. I read Nissan has trademarked the Cube name in NA if that means anything. What does Nissan have for GenY anyway? The Sentra? Boring! Bring back the Axxess!
http://www.autoindex.org/news.plt?no=719
Kinda makes you wonder why they need the Wish too. Anyway, to my eyes, it's one of the nicest looking compact MPV's, and one I wouldn't mind having here in Canada (the VW Touran and Mazda4 would also fit the bill). With more automakers recognizing that Canada' needs are unique and somewhat different than the USA (witness the Canada only Echo hatch and now Nissan's X-Trail for two), maybe Toyota will recognize that their are a lot of Canadians for whom the Matrix is a bit small but the $30,000-and-up extra-large Sienna is both too costly and too big. The newly-redesigned Corolla Verso would fill that gap rather nicely.
(and now, back to our regularly-scheduled program!)
http://www.hondapreview.com
Too bad at least for now. I didn't see any mention that the Corolla Verso is planned to NA shores. I still hope the WISH will come...maybe as an updated Matrix!!
No Stream/Latitude in the forseeable future, no Protege5/Mazda3Sport, Matrix/Vibe competitor, no Jazz to combat Scion/Echo hatchback etc., an uncompetitive SiR and a Civic in general that is being eclipsed by the Focus(in handling), by just about everyone in h.p. and overall, by the Mazda3.
The article seems to indicate it's built off the 6 platform but another source I read said it was the new Mazda4. It does look really close to some computer-generated spy photos that were making the rounds awhile back. Other spy photos purportedly to be the new 4 look more like the revised Toyota Corolla Verso, so this "MX-Flexa" may indeed be the new 4. I guess we'll just have to wait until Geneva to find out.
....and now, back to the non-news about the Latitude
Mazda4 mule which is the Premacy replacement.
http://www.autorevue.cz/Magazin/Ar.asp?ARI=2595&CAI=2113
It is unfortunately, well disguised.
Yes, now back to that elusive Latitude.....
http://www.autorevue.cz/Images/2595/77777777.jpg
and here's the redesigned Toyota Verso
http://www.autoindex.org/images/news/719/norm_1_orig.jpg
Methinks they're one and the same, and that the new 4 will be amazingly close to the "Flexa" concept.
mazda4 spy "photo"
http://hometown.aol.de/ReBa300389/mazda4.1.jpg
Flexa
http://www.autoindex.org/images/news/739/norm_1_orig.jpg