I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

texases

fintail said:

That oncoming wagon can't be common (no sound due to fear of copyright nonsense - and I notice the cam is a little crooked, I think the adhesive is failing):

https://youtu.be/3OQTct5D63U

'63 Plymouth Savoy?

fintail

I think that's the wagon, yeah. Uncommon sighting.

Old Stude in LA looks like a 1941, works well with the 1920s-looking hacienda style house in the background.

uplanderguy

That Stude is a '41 I'm nearly-certain. First year for that two-tone, called "Deluxe-tone" I think I remember. I like the 'suicide' doors.

That wagon in fin's video--I've looked a few times, and I'm thinking '63 full-size Plymouth from the front, but then to my eyes it doesn't seem that big from the side, which was making me think '64 Fairlane? Maybe '64 Falcon wagon. I dunno.

The Champion was a good seller for Studebaker in that era ('39 and later). I'd read that when they were working on the first Lark, the president of Studebaker, who was an engineer in the Champion era, put photos up all around the studio of the '39 Champion, saying "a car like this is what we need again".

uplanderguy

Just saw the posts before mine--glad someone else thought it looked like a '63 Plymouth!

andre1969

Meant to respond earlier but yep, one of those prematurely downsized '63 Plymouths would be my first guess as well. They weren't exactly hot sellers, roughly 17K of the low-line Savoy wagon, 14K of the mid-range Belvedere, and 6700 Furys. For comparison, Chevy built about 199,000 full-sized wagons that year. My old car book doesn't break that down by series though.

uplanderguy

To my GM-bred eyes, I always thought Chrysler Corp. used the biggest nameplates on their cars in the late fifties and sixties--e.g., the "Plymouth" on the front fender of that Savoy wagon. Late '50's Imperials had an enormous "Imperial" nameplate. They also had enormous two round instrument pods inside, which always reminded me of two enormous bra cups for some reason (adolescent boy, who knows? LOL).

uplanderguy

RE.: The '63 Plymouth--when I was a kid, I thought "Hmmm, the '63 looks more like the '65 than it looks like the '64". Years later, I realized why that was--they dusted off the '63 full-size body (which wasn't full-size like GM and Ford cars were), and essentially made it the '65 Belvedere series.

I have always liked the '64 Fury two-door hardtop, inside and out. I always really liked the four-circle instrument panel. Conversely, I never cared for the '65 and '66 panel, with the raised, one big square in front of the driver.

ab348

I've always liked the '63 and '64 Plymouth. They toned down some of the styling oddities of the '62 to make it look quite crisp and they were a more sensible size that the equivalent Fords and Chevys. And I actually like the '63 dash more than the board-like '64 version.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

That wagon in fin's video--I've looked a few times, and I'm thinking '63 full-size Plymouth from the front, but then to my eyes it doesn't seem that big from the side, which was making me think '64 Fairlane? Maybe '64 Falcon wagon. I dunno.

Funny you'd mention the small-ish size of it. That was one of the first things I noticed, too. Looking up the specs though, I'm finding roughly 210" overall length for a '63 Fury wagon. About 75" wide, and 54" tall. And, on a 116" wheelbase, it's not exactly tiny. But, compared to all those other cars around that are taller, with bulkier rooflines and such, it just seems small.

For comparison, a few other wagon lengths for 1963:
Valiant: 187"
Dart: 190" **
Falcon/Comet: 189" (Comet wagons were the same wheelbase as a Falcon, other models were longer, with the bulk of it tacked on in the rear)
Dart: 196"
Fairlane: 197"
Impala: 210.3" (this one really surprises me, that the Fury wagon was almost identical in length)

**Edit: I had forgotten that the '63-66 Dart wagons were on the shorter Valiant wheelbase, similar to what Ford did with the early Comet wagons, versus the other models

uplanderguy

I see Lark Wagonaires were 188" long in '63.

I, too, would've thought a '63 Plymouth wagon would've been shorter than a full-size Chevy.

My grandparents had a new '63 Bel Air wagon.

I was never too hep on how GM wagons from '61-64 had rear doors where the window was a perfectly straight up-and-down rectangle. Much later I read than an outside company made the wagon bodies then, I think it was Ionia, which may help explain that.

andre1969

One advantage to that squared off rear door on the '61-64 wagons was probably ease of entry/exit, and access to the rear cargo area if you wanted to go through the doors.

One wagon that used to bug me a bit, until I finally "got it" fairly recently, was the '57-58 Buick and Olds wagons...especially those hardtop Fiesta and Caballero models. They put a focus on style over function, and I can remember Consumer Reports griping about how hard the back seat was to get in and out of, because of that low roofline and rakish C-pillar. I've seen them every once in awhile at car shows, and one thing that sticks out to me is just how small the cargo area looks. But then, it finally hit me. I guess it's sort of like crossovers versus minivans today. If you want pure functionality, with a focus on ease of entry/exit and a lot of cargo room, you get a minivan. But, if you simply want some increased functionality and versatility over a regular sedan or coupe, but still want some style, you get a crossover. So, in that sense, maybe those Caballeros and Fiestas were sort of a predecessor to the crossover type market. Or, in a way, the "personal luxury coupe" of wagons.

Mercury tried hardtop wagons from '57-60, and Mopar did them from '60-64, but those models seemed taller and more upright, with larger load areas. And the C-pillar wasn't as rakish. Rambler did a hardtop wagon as well, but it looks like they just grafted a wagon roof onto a 4-door sedan, and did the minimal work necessary to make a wagon. It also had a reverse-slant C-pillar, and a spacer window to allow the door window to roll all the way down.

benjaminh

I remember being almost stunned by the looks of the Porsche 928 when it first came out. Check out those disco (?) seats. Friends of my family had 911s and 914s, and once I even got to ride in one of these. I kinda still remember the engine sounds.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33260520/tested-1978-porsche-928/

texases

I've never been a fan of the exposed pop up headlights, neither for the 928, the 968, nor the Celica. Seemed to be staring off into space.

stickguy

Man, I love those seats.

benjaminh

My local Acura dealer just got a trade of a one-owner 2008 TSX with 217k miles. Looking at it makes me think maybe I could keep mine for that number of miles too. Even with the clearly low trade in value seems like that owner got their money's worth out of this car.

https://www.acuraatoxmoor.com/used-Louisville-2008-Acura-TSX-Base-JH4CL968X8C000179

fintail

Heck, when I was a kid in the 80s, I was stunned by the 928. One of those designs that was never really contemporary, so it didn't really age, kind of like the XJ-S. I recall the first 928 I ever saw, it was red.

That C&D has the "pasha" cloth interior particular to early cars.

Locally, a Porsche club would have a gathering adjacent to a local concours (which unfortunately hasn't taken place in several years). One of the cars there every year was this pristine very low mileage early 928, in the best color, and notice it has the same upholstery pattern. Interesting bug/rock guard. I had a Matchbox 928 in this color:

andre1969

I remember a sci-fi thriller movie from the early 80's called "Looker". It had a car chase where the bad guys were in a Mark IV chasing a Porsche 928. You know it was science fiction because the Lincoln had no trouble keeping up with the Porsche

And, the Porsche ended up in a fountain...




Considering the movie was made in 1981, and that would have been a brand-new, or almost-new car, and very expensive, I'm impressed they put it through the abuse they did. But, in the movie, you didn't actually see the car crash into the fountain. Just the aftermath, with the driver coming to. And, it looks like they took some precautions to keep the car from getting too messed up. In the shot where the driver's door is open, it looks like it's raised up. And in the other shot, while it looks like the wheels themselves are pretty submerged, it looks like the car might be resting on something to keep it raised up a bit, and just let the suspension hang down.

fintail

Never seen that one. I agree with the analysis - I see no water intrusion into the car. By my admitted non-expert level knowledge of California plate sequences, that plate was probably issued in 1979.

I recall an episode of Hardy Boys, I think, in syndication ages ago, where a white (?) 928 played some kind of role, but I forget what.

And of course, the classics - it could almost be a John Hughes movie:



And an actual John Hughes movie:

xwesx

Any time I see a 928, I immediately think of Weird Science. I just can't help it.

Michaell

xwesx said:

Any time I see a 928, I immediately think of Weird Science. I just can't help it.

And I think of Risky Business.

"OK, who's the U-Boat captain?"

xwesx

Michaell said:

xwesx said:

Any time I see a 928, I immediately think of Weird Science. I just can't help it.

And I think of Risky Business.

"OK, who's the U-Boat captain?"

That's one I have not watched.

omarman

So you're the one!

xwesx said:

Michaell said:

xwesx said:

Any time I see a 928, I immediately think of Weird Science. I just can't help it.

And I think of Risky Business.

"OK, who's the U-Boat captain?"

That's one I have not watched.

explorerx4

@xwesx,
Huh? Risky Business made Tom Cruise famous.
I was going to post the scene, but don't want to ruin the movie for you.

stickguy

I know the sliding across the floor scene, but don't think I have actually ever seen the rest of the movie.

fintail

Not the famous scene, but the backwards donuts has also stuck in my mind:

https://youtu.be/PMrHp-AXTkw

Apparently the car still exists:

https://youtu.be/-JCUd7yqBJI

explorerx4

Found this film about Columbus, OH in 1973 time frame.
I've been there once for a football game, but don't think I would recognize anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp2483Me2GE

kyfdx

@explorerx4 My stepfather had a sales route that took him to Columbus frequently. In the Summer, we'd go with him (my mother was a school teacher). I've been all through those areas, but mostly from 1967-1972.

imidazol97

Key Oldsmobile was located in the now Short North part of High Street. Became Schnitz Motors when Olds disappeared in 2002? Now apparently gone.

Neat the splash screen for the video showed a car dealer sign for us to focus on.

@explorer04 Thanks for posting the video for some of us to explore old memories.

imidazol97

Does anyone else use USPS's Informed Delivery? They cut off my feed for our PO Box last week without notice. When I checked they said it was used for business. Well, only our personal financial mail and other notifications for our lives that we didn't want lost in delivery to the house.

I had to go in to the office to get a form changed where "business" had been marked on the card. But I still can't sign up again for the service, so another trip in today when I check for mail there.

omarman

Key Oldsmobile was last operating on Scarborough Blvd on the far east side. After GM killed off Olds, they reformed as Key Automotive selling used late model cars and offering service and body repairs at the same location. Germain Toyota is now at that location having swallowed up many car dealerships here over the years.

That High Street history is cool and needs to be extended to the Doo Dah era. I'm not sure what's become of the Marching Fidels but the parade will (apparently) go on this year having been rescheduled for September 19. Of course it is being touted with the Pandemic Parade theme this year and organizers are calling for - gasp - no walkers due to Covid-19 concerns? Also I noticed a new rule for this year's event: No full nudity. Okay but good luck enforcing that one when a mask or a funny hat is the only real dress code requirement.

imidazol97

omarman said:

Key Oldsmobile was last operating on Scarborough Blvd on the far east side. After GM killed off Olds, they reformed as Key Automotive selling used late model cars and offering service and body repairs at the same location. Germain Toyota is now at that location having swallowed up many car dealerships here over the years.

That High Street history is cool and needs to be extended to the Doo Dah era. I'm not sure what's become of the Marching Fidels but the parade will (apparently) go on this year having been rescheduled for September 19. Of course it is being touted with the Pandemic Parade theme this year and organizers are calling for - gasp - no walkers due to Covid-19 concerns? Also I noticed a new rule for this year's event: No full nudity. Okay but good luck enforcing that one when a mask or a funny hat is the only real dress code requirement.

Wasn't there an Oldsmobile dealer on near downtown W. Broad in the 70s or 80s? Maybe near the 305 area? I know Haydocy is now far out on W Broad near the casino/West Town shopping mall past location...

Haydocy is now Buick/GMC, but didn't it used to be Oldsmobile?

kyfdx

Near West Side.. I remember eating at Philip's Coney Island.

omarman

My memory fades but I think Haydocy started out as a single Pontiac line dealer that added Buick and Olds later. Another Olds dealer near downtown? By the 80s I was only around the downtown area long enough to pick up parking tickets here and there because shopping was pretty dead by that time.

In late 70s and the 80s I was much more likely to be shopping Chesrown Olds in Nerk. Before they closed I remember they had relocated to the Mt Vernon road location and added Lincoln-Mercury to their car lines.

In '89 while test driving another car at Chesrown in Newark, I saw a new Merkur XR4Ti being loaded onto a flat bed truck. The salesman said it was being taken away because "We can't sell it.." I remember that clearly but could there have been a Chesrown Olds near downtown Columbus? I don't remember.

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

@xwesx,
Huh? Risky Business made Tom Cruise famous.
I was going to post the scene, but don't want to ruin the movie for you.

I know. It was just a little ahead of my day in terms of content, and by the time I "could" watch it, I just never had the inclination.

xwesx

My sister-in-law lived in Columbus for a time, so we went through there a few times for visitation. It also serves as a decent air hub for us when traveling to Pennsylvania, as flights to/from are, for some reason, cheaper than most any other place we can land. Since it is within hours of most areas we want to visit, it also makes for a nice drive.

ab348

Found an article today on the infamous Chevy Iraqibu cars of 1980/81. There used to be a lot of them in taxi service here or used as daily drivers by lovers of cheap cars.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/35121/we-got-him-that-time-gm-sold-12500-terrible-chevy-malibus-to-saddam-hussein

uplanderguy

I wouldn't mind one of those cars...the 229 V6 which in my memory gave you 5 more hp than the Buick V6, A/C, heavy-duty cooling, and the '81 roofline which was an improvement to my eyes...not to mention a 3-speed floor shift! LOL

fintail

On foot today saw a Geo Metro LSi convertible, and at the car electronics shop saw a 61 Impala bubbletop looking very different from the Rolls-Royce and Lambo sharing the shop floor.

imidazol97

ab348 said:

Found an article today on the infamous Chevy Iraqibu cars of 1980/81. There used to be a lot of them in taxi service here or used as daily drivers by lovers of cheap cars.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/35121/we-got-him-that-time-gm-sold-12500-terrible-chevy-malibus-to-saddam-hussein

Interesting article. Thx.

uplanderguy

In downtown Kent tonight, parked on the street, was a bee-yootiful light blue metallic '62 Pontiac Grand Prix, with correct-width whitewalls and eight-lug wheels. Just when I think I knew about all the old cars in town.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

I wouldn't mind one of those cars...the 229 V6 which in my memory gave you 5 more hp than the Buick V6, A/C, heavy-duty cooling, and the '81 roofline which was an improvement to my eyes...not to mention a 3-speed floor shift! LOL

I'm just going on memory here, but I seem to recall for 1980, the 229 and 231 both put out 115 hp, although that could be a typo in my old car book. In earlier years, the 231 usually bounced around 105-110 hp. In '81, I think they were both cut to 110 hp, where they would stay until the end of the run for the 2-bbl.

However, toque was a different story. The 231 put out something like 190 ft-lb, but for some reason, the 229, despite similar displacement, was pretty gutless, with around 175 ft-lb. I heard they did increase the torque in later years though.

I had an '80 Malibu coupe with the 229 and an '82 Cutlass Supreme with the 231. I'm sure the Cutlass was a couple hundred pounds heavier, but it definitely felt quicker. Acceleration was better, and when it had to downshift for passing, it was pleasantly surprising. It also seemed to have some guts once you buried the speedometer as well, whereas the Malibu seemed like it was running out of steam.

Of course, a Malibu with a stick would probably be a lot more lively, especially if they gave it a quicker axle ratio. And, if you could somehow keep the catalytic converter off of it, I wonder how much hp that would be good for?

ab348

Those Iraqibus came with desert rear gears, 2.29:1 IIRC. They didn’t do well on even gentle hills.

sda

While dad’s 79 Eldorado diesel was having the head gaskets replaced, the Olds/Cadillac dealer gave him an 81 Cutlass Supreme 2dr to drive. It was a fairly base model with ac, stereo, sport wheels, 231 V6, cloth bench seat. I was prepared to not like it but was surprised I enjoyed driving it. I found it to be comfortable, quiet, handled decently, and not underpowered. It actually accelerated better than expected and was certainly good enough in 55 mph limited US. About the only thing I didn’t like was the cheap sounding clack when door was pushed closed.

andre1969

I'd imagine a 2.29:1 would have been horrible in a car like that! On the subject of axle ratios, that got me thinking. Back in college, I used to wasted a lot of time looking at the car tests in the old Consumer Reports magazines in the campus library. One thing I seemed to recall, is that the midsized cars, when equipped with a 231 or 229, really weren't much quicker than the earlier ones that were equipped with those tiny 196 and 200 V6es.

You'd think going from a ~94 hp 200 to a 115 (or even 110) hp 229 would make a big difference. But, then I thought about axle ratios. I just looked them up online, and sure enough, a '79 Malibu with a 200 had a 2.73:1 axle, while an '80 with the 229 had a 2.41:1. So, that taller axle was probably enough to hold back most of the performance gains you might have otherwise gotten, with the bigger engine.

ab348

Four years ago my buddy who moved up-country took pictures of a car at a show up there that he knew I would like, a '70 Plymouth Fury convertible. He then provided me with some info on it: it was supposedly an all-original car, never restored, and part of a larger collection owned by the fellow. Unfortunately he had been diagnosed with early-onset dementia and the word was his wife was trying to liquidate some of his collection. I tried getting in touch but never heard back, so I forgot about it. Today I saw it right behind me here in town in traffic. The paint looked too good to be original 50 year-old Chrysler paint, but the car looked incredible overall. It wasn't being driven by the owner who had it but a fellow who appeared to be in his 40s. It's a huge car, really too big for me to enjoy, but sure stood out and looked great

uplanderguy

That is a nice-looking car. Fury III with a center armrest--definitely something Chevy didn't do with its commensurate Impala, nor Ford's Galaxie 500.

fintail

Did Mike Brady have something like that?

IMDCB to the rescue, indeed, he did:



And a 69, too:

andre1969

The blue one pulling in to the driveway in the actual neighborhood looks like a '69, but I think the one on the soundstage closeup is a '70.

I seem to recall reading that the producers of "The Brady Bunch" filmed a few establishing shots of that house, early on, perhaps even before the show started in the fall of '69, and then they never revisited it. I also remember every once in awhile, you'd see a shot of an Olds Toronado driving past, and a shot of one of the wagons, like a '69 Satellite, parked out in front.

As the years went on though, they probably had to stop using the shot of the Fury pulling into the drive, and the Satellite parked out in front. It would be hard to pass off a '69 Satellite wagon as a '71+. And, Mr. Brady got a Barracuda for '71, an Impala for '72, and a Caprice for '73 and '74.

uplanderguy

That is a '69 in the second photo and a '70 in the first.

sda

andre1969 said:

I'd imagine a 2.29:1 would have been horrible in a car like that! On the subject of axle ratios, that got me thinking. Back in college, I used to wasted a lot of time looking at the car tests in the old Consumer Reports magazines in the campus library. One thing I seemed to recall, is that the midsized cars, when equipped with a 231 or 229, really weren't much quicker than the earlier ones that were equipped with those tiny 196 and 200 V6es.

You'd think going from a ~94 hp 200 to a 115 (or even 110) hp 229 would make a big difference. But, then I thought about axle ratios. I just looked them up online, and sure enough, a '79 Malibu with a 200 had a 2.73:1 axle, while an '80 with the 229 had a 2.41:1. So, that taller axle was probably enough to hold back most of the performance gains you might have otherwise gotten, with the bigger engine.

Funny you should mention reading CU in the college library! I did the same when I should have been studying, alas. The library had volumes dating back to the early 1950s, so it was interesting to read the older reviews and how CU's approach changed along with the cars. It wasn't until recently that CU will admit if a car is fun/satisfying to drive.