I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

The Tempo coupes did have odd proportions from some angles. The sedans looked better IMO.

I have a 1981 Consumer Guide, slowest car I think was an automatic Volvo diesel wagon, something like 26-27 seconds 0-60. I think a W123 240D automatic would be around 20 seconds, and older small displacement diesel MBs probably slower with automatic.

I am sure I have mentioned it more than once, our 85 GLX sedan wasn't bad either. It had some engine computer hiccups at maybe 130K miles (primitive computer = cheap replacement), but it had 190K on it when my mom finally let it go in 1999, and it hadn't been babied either - I cared for it while I still lived at home, but it was used as a young driver's car by a few kids - I drove it in high school a bit, so did my sister and cousin. Engine and transmission effectively untouched, I think the most it needed was a new valve cover gasket when the original started weeping. Another fun thing was the power seat (the car had nearly every option, and was even a decent color combo "Medium Regatta Blue Metallic" with a blue interior) shorted out while I was driving - smoke coming from where you are sitting is alarming - junkyard parts replaced it. It also ate a couple tape players before I finally replaced the unit with an aftermarket item instead of junkyard material. The headliner eventually sagged , I cut a small hole in it and used spray adhesive to "fix" it (thumbtacks don't work). It wasn't fast (I am sure the fintail could dust it), but it took some less than careful treatment, and kept going. My mom sold it for $600 to a guy who worked at the local Les Schwab - he was going to rebuild the front end and give it to his kid, he was happy with the car as it ran very well. I saw it in town about 5 years later, on aftermarket wheels, never saw it again.

uplanderguy

Those early Tempos always looked chubby to me, and the sedans seemed to have thick pillars around the side windows. The Topaz was even worse to my eyes, as it didn't have the extra quarter window behind the rear doors.

When they redesigned the sedans I thought they got better-looking, but the coupes soldiered on with the original styling. I can remember several years in, dealers were selling coupes around here as a loss-leader kind of thing, prices almost unbelievably low.

kyfdx

Saw some kind of kit car with "Rebel" on the back. But, I'll be darned if I can find it on the interweb.

kyfdx

Also, spotted one of these, shortly after

fintail

I recall the final model year of Tempo (1994) local dealers were giving them away too - one, for good reason, they were ancient, and also probably needed all the help they could get. I am sure one could get a fairly equipped example for under 10K.

Speaking of Tempo and Topaz, this amuses me - the Mexican market Ford Topaz. It's a Topaz with a Tempo front end. As Canada apparently needed unique badge engineering in the 50s and 60s, Mexico apparently needed a unique version of it in the 80s:



I like the TRX wheels anyway.

uplanderguy said:

Those early Tempos always looked chubby to me, and the sedans seemed to have thick pillars around the side windows. The Topaz was even worse to my eyes, as it didn't have the extra quarter window behind the rear doors.

When they redesigned the sedans I thought they got better-looking, but the coupes soldiered on with the original styling. I can remember several years in, dealers were selling coupes around here as a loss-leader kind of thing, prices almost unbelievably low.

andre1969

My stepdad's Tempo had those alloys, or something very close. For some reason, they bug me. I've noticed it with any type of alloy rim that uses a 4-bolt pattern as the basis for its theming. Maybe it's just too symmetric?

As for the styling, I actually liked the roofline of the Tempo coupe. I think if it was on a larger car, it would have looked nice. But, the rest of the car, as-is, just looked kind of porky. I didn't care for the earlier sedans. I think it's because they had those aircraft-styled doors, that wrapped into the top of the roof a bit. And since they didn't have rain gutters across the top, or anything across the beltline to connect all the windows together, it sort of looked like someone just used a cookie cutter to stamp out the windows, and they just seemed a bit incoherent.

When the Taurus came out, while it was similar, it had blackout trim on the pillars to sort of connect the two door windows and the rear quarter window, and make it all blend together better. When the Tempo sedan got the restyle in '88, it followed suit, and I thought was a big improvement.

fintail

Maybe like this? I think these were 1984 only. I've never seen the TRX wheels on a Tempo in person, only in promo shots:



Those are not the most attractive wheel IMO.

Funny thing, although cars don't rust much here, our car started getting some surface rust on the door under the area where the door top curved into the roof, near the weatherstripping. I think I eventually tried to sand it down and paint it or something, it wasn't much, but it was there. And to think how cars aged differently way back when, I remember by 1994-95 or so, there was no problem finding Tempos in the local small town junkyard.

andre1969 said:

My stepdad's Tempo had those alloys, or something very close. For some reason, they bug me. I've noticed it with any type of alloy rim that uses a 4-bolt pattern as the basis for its theming. Maybe it's just too symmetric?

As for the styling, I actually liked the roofline of the Tempo coupe. I think if it was on a larger car, it would have looked nice. But, the rest of the car, as-is, just looked kind of porky. I didn't care for the earlier sedans. I think it's because they had those aircraft-styled doors, that wrapped into the top of the roof a bit. And since they didn't have rain gutters across the top, or anything across the beltline to connect all the windows together, it sort of looked like someone just used a cookie cutter to stamp out the windows, and they just seemed a bit incoherent.

When the Taurus came out, while it was similar, it had blackout trim on the pillars to sort of connect the two door windows and the rear quarter window, and make it all blend together better. When the Tempo sedan got the restyle in '88, it followed suit, and I thought was a big improvement.

roadburner

andre1969 said:

I have a 1985 Consumer Guide that tested a Mercury Topaz with the 2.3 and 3-speed automatic, and it did 0-60 in 15.9 seconds. It was one of the slowest cars in that auto issue, although I seem to recall something, like a 4-cyl Cherokee maybe, doing 17.3.

My mom had a 1984 Topaz. I had to drive it a couple of times on 90 mile trips.
One of my textbook definitions of Hell.

tjc78

uplanderguy said:

RE.: The Bonnevilles of '92-99 I think, like the white one above....I think those Bonnevilles were pretty popular around here, and to my eyes looked better than the one before. You could get them without all the cladding and such. I always thought from the rear, they reminded me of an Avanti, with the 'tuck under' look there and taillights.

Later iterations of those Bonnes, when I pulled up behind them, looked angry/threatening, LOL--the taillights were in a perpetual scowl.

Boy, my knowledge/memory of even GM cars in the late '80's and '90's has diminished. I guess that's what trying to make a career, and losing interest in the product, will do. After the last RWD V8 GM cars, I just generally wasn't all that terribly interested anymore. The late '70's downsizing intrigued me, though. The direction of the entire industry in the '90's and later became a bore to me. SUV's aren't doing it for me now.

I did rent an Enclave in CA last year. I enjoyed the quiet. I honestly thought, "I haven't driven a car with this little road noise since my Cobalt". For real.

Our Enclave is a like a bank vault on wheels. I drove it down the shore late last night. Both kids fell asleep and I was talking to my wife at not much above a whisper at 75 mph. It has laminated glass all around and the Michelin tires have almost zero road noise.

uplanderguy

The Michelins on my wife's Equinox roar IMHO, at 16K miles, religious rotations, and one alignment.

In that old picture, I'm more intrigued by the '76 or '77 Nova Concours behind the Tempo!

I really liked the '75 Nova LN, one-year only model which sort-of morphed into the 'Concours' the next year, but not as interesting IMHO.

uplanderguy

RE.: My earlier remark about 'trying to make a career'--the calendar reminded me that yesterday, forty years ago, I started my first real job, in the Internal Audit Dept. of Revco Drugs, which at the time had the most number of stores in that industry in the U.S.

I feel like I've been working every bit of forty years, LOL. Trying to retire next June on my 63rd birthday.

I have been lucky, but I've only been unemployed two weeks in forty years. My wife's a teacher and I'm glad she is, but she gets a chance to recharge every summer. Never happens for me!

kyfdx

@uplanderguy I retired from my 30 year job about four years ago. I have nothing bad to say about retirement!

We are exactly the same age. Given my short tenure in college, I’d worked about 40 years by retirement, as well. Not as fortunate as far as steady employment for the first 8 years. Pretty brutal for manual labor through the recession of the early ‘80s.
30 years at one job healed those wounds. 😉

stickguy

I’m a few years behind you guys. If I can manage to retire (at least semi) at 63 I would be very happy. My current target is being able to by 65. But we shall see.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

I’m a few years behind you guys. If I can manage to retire (at least semi) at 63 I would be very happy. My current target is being able to by 65. But we shall see.

It was 58 for me... but semi-retired is the right phrase.
I've been fortunate this gig has lasted this long.

tjc78

I've been fortunate this gig has lasted this long.

I know wrong area for this, but how does it work?

Are you on certain hours of the day or is it a continuous thing with productivity based on post count, leasing questions answered etc

If you can't answer it is OK

kyfdx

tjc78 said:

I've been fortunate this gig has lasted this long.

I know wrong area for this, but how does it work?

Are you on certain hours of the day or is it a continuous thing with productivity based on post count, leasing questions answered etc

If you can't answer it is OK

I’m a contractor. Just me and Michael. We just make sure it gets done. Pretty gravy from mid-March to mid-May. Back to above normal, now.

We are 2 hours apart in time zone, so that helps spread out the work

I’ve been doing this since 2005.. 👀

Michaell

kyfdx said:

tjc78 said:

I've been fortunate this gig has lasted this long.

I know wrong area for this, but how does it work?

Are you on certain hours of the day or is it a continuous thing with productivity based on post count, leasing questions answered etc

If you can't answer it is OK

I’m a contractor. Just me and Michael. We just make sure it gets done. Pretty gravy from mid-March to mid-May. Back to above normal, now.

We are 2 hours apart in time zone, so that helps spread out the work

I’ve been doing this since 2005.. 👀

And I just celebrated my 7th anniversary with Edmunds.

There are always questions to be answered. Amazing how many folks look for lease numbers in the middle of the night.

sda

I thank you both for a job well done. I enjoy your comments and humor, too, sometimes very little humor. lol

Michaell

sda said:

I thank you both for a job well done. I enjoy your comments and humor, too, sometimes very little humor. lol

We simply try to level the playing field.

Can't tell you how many virtual drinks I've been bought by folks who save $100's or $1000's on their lease with the information we provide.

tjc78

There are always questions to be answered. Amazing how many folks look for lease numbers in the middle of the night.

Well considering every third post on Leasehakr is "Get the MF, residuals and any incentives from Edmunds" that doesn't surprise

Thanks @kyfdx and @Michaell for answering the question. We certainly appreciate what you do

xwesx

tjc78 said:

There are always questions to be answered. Amazing how many folks look for lease numbers in the middle of the night.

Well considering every third post on Leasehakr is "Get the MF, residuals and any incentives from Edmunds" that doesn't surprise

Thanks @kyfdx and @Michaell for answering the question. We certainly appreciate what you do

Definitely! And, I know how much @kyfdx loves his *real* beer, so I'm sure virtual beer is appreciated as well.

Michaell

tjc78 said:

There are always questions to be answered. Amazing how many folks look for lease numbers in the middle of the night.

Well considering every third post on Leasehakr is "Get the MF, residuals and any incentives from Edmunds" that doesn't surprise

Thanks @kyfdx and @Michaell for answering the question. We certainly appreciate what you do

Yeah, we keep an eye on the LH stuff, and appreciate the posts that come our way.

Every now and again, we'll find a broker asking questions here. Don't allow that, so they get banned.

xwesx

You guys got me to thinking about my time in the workforce... I'm surprised that I am now at thirty years of regular employment. I have another eleven or so to go before retirement, but I'll be happy to move on from this grind by the time I'm 54.

stickguy

Either you meant age 64, or you started working at 13.

Alaska is a strange place!

xwesx

stickguy said:

Either you meant age 64, or you started working at 13.

Alaska is a strange place!

I did start working at 13. 12, actually, but I only had a very short gig at that age. The summer I turned 13, I started working and just kept working. I had stints of a month or two where I didn't have any earnings, but mostly it was just one job after another, sometimes multiple at once.

Ah, to have that sort of energy again! LOL

xwesx

My son got his first job about a month ago (he turned 16 in June), and I joked, "Wow, your first job! Took you long enough!"

fintail

Spotted a Reatta (red, like all of them), and a pristine 2 door Pathfinder, dark grey and silver two tone, driven by a little old lady who is taking the pandemic seriously by wearing one of those face shields that looks like a welding mask.

sda

My first job when I was 12 was mowing grass. I would pull the mower from behind my bike to the 5 yards I cut. $5 a pop. One yard that I cut, parent's of a friend had a neat Corvair that was dark metallic blue. They had it painted by Earl Schieb a light pastel blue. Overspray on all the trim. I couldn't believe it, really?

stickguy

xwesx said:

stickguy said:

Either you meant age 64, or you started working at 13.

Alaska is a strange place!

I did start working at 13. 12, actually, but I only had a very short gig at that age. The summer I turned 13, I started working and just kept working. I had stints of a month or two where I didn't have any earnings, but mostly it was just one job after another, sometimes multiple at once.

Ah, to have that sort of energy again! LOL

But not full time work I assume.

sda

True. It did keep me busy during the mowing months, between school and other activities. We lived in New Orleans then, so humid and hot! It gave me good spending money which I used to buy my Schwinn Varsity, which I still have.

xwesx

stickguy said:

But not full time work I assume.

No, not during the school months. Sometimes it occupied nearly every waking hour outside of school, though! Good times - back when even hard work often didn't feel like really "working" at all.

I did all kinds of stuff: Landscaping, agricultural field work, operating a grain elevator, bookkeeping, automotive, building computers, real estate ("gopher" type stuff like preparing houses for open showings, posting ads and signs, fielding communications, cleaning houses/properties... ugh... so much cleaning), construction, fast food, resident assistant in college.... Lots of variety.

roadburner

I fully retired in 2014; 18 months later I started working at BMW for 18 months, loving the job but hating the hours. The city attorney job I took next was a great gig, I worked from home 90% of the time, and there was little to no pressure. I probably wouldn't have run for my current gig if I hadn't been jacked around during the appointment process and if the appointee had not fired one of my friends 9 months short of her retirement. I promised my wife that I wouldn't seek reelection so I'm done in January of 2025- I'll be 68. As a point of reference, my dad was 67 when he began an 8 year term as circuit judge.

fintail

I don't count my work as "real" until I paid taxes/it wasn't under the table . Because of that, I didn't get started til I was around 18, but I did lawns/car detailing and sold stuff in my parents antique mall booth for several years before. I usually had a little money squirreled away.

My dad retired from the grocery business asap at 62 and worked part time for a few years after, then pursued a hobby business with a friend of his - wasn't a huge income stream, but it kept him busy. My mom didn't retire until 70 - she wanted to max out s.s. and I think was afraid she'd have nothing to do if she stopped working. I think she might wish she retired a little earlier now, as she's enjoying it. She worked in the back office of a retail store for many years, and I think they kind of forced her hand - gave her a decent severance payout and a few other things, she made out well.

My paternal grandfather worked for the federal government, was fully vested in whatever he had by his late 50s, retired, worked as a courier or something for a few years to get out of my grandma's hair, and then had the job chosen a couple people here, a rental car driver. He did that until he was 76, I think, when he finally got a little tired. It got him out of the house, kept him a little active, and funded his season tickets and horse betting - ideal situation. When I was a kid I was amused he got paid to drive a new car from one airport to another.

I'm private sector, so I'll probably work as long as I can, or run into a winning lottery ticket/inheritance/lucky investment etc.

uplanderguy

I've always thought I'd like to shuttle new cars between dealers, but I bet there's a line of retired guys waiting to do that. And I hear you sometimes get called at 6 in the morning to do it.

Shuttling rental cars--I'd never heard of that job! I could like that! Just last year I rented a car here in OH and dropped it off in CA and flew home--I couldn't handle the drive across country and back in the same week. Man was the dropoff cost ridiculous, but I get it.

xwesx

uplanderguy said:

Man was the dropoff cost ridiculous, but I get it.

It sure is ridiculous! My wife seems to be a big fan of renting/dropping in different locations, and I have to point out to her regularly that the cost just isn't worth it most of the time. Last October, when she sent to PA ahead of the rest of the family in order to deal with her uncle's passing, she rented a vehicle in Erie. The rest of us came into Columbus and drove over to PA, and we were all flying out of Columbus a week later.

The original plan was that she would return her rental when we arrived, then we would use "my" rental for the rest of the trip. Except, when I arrived, she decided that she liked her car more, so she was trying to argue that she wanted me to turn in my car in Erie, then drive hers to Columbus. After a significant facepalm, I just had to fight the good fight on that one.

She got the last laugh though, as I didn't get to drive my car again once hers was turned in.

xwesx

fintail said:

I don't count my work as "real" until I paid taxes/it wasn't under the table .

Okay, fine. If that's the case, my first "real" job was summer of '91, at 14.

fintail

Funny, on all but one of my Germany rentals, I one-wayed it, and I think the fee was something like 15 Euro. I always pick up a car about halfway through the trip, and drop it off at an airport when I leave. And I won't even get into German rental fleets, which to be nice are a cut above the material we have here - maybe indicative of other things.

Most of my German rentals were relatively "obscure" cars too, as IIRC all but one were models not sold on this side of the pond.

uplanderguy said:

I've always thought I'd like to shuttle new cars between dealers, but I bet there's a line of retired guys waiting to do that. And I hear you sometimes get called at 6 in the morning to do it.

Shuttling rental cars--I'd never heard of that job! I could like that! Just last year I rented a car here in OH and dropped it off in CA and flew home--I couldn't handle the drive across country and back in the same week. Man was the dropoff cost ridiculous, but I get it.

fintail

IIRC I think one couldn't do that in WA then until they were 15 or 16. I was probably un-ambitious enough to not want to do more than I was doing. IIRC, very few of my friends had "real" jobs either.

xwesx said:

Okay, fine. If that's the case, my first "real" job was summer of '91, at 14.

andre1969

I started working, as in trading my time for money, when I was 13. Summer of 1983. My grandmother knew a lady who was the president of the Prince George's County SPCA, who was getting up in years, and needed help doing housework and yard work. So, I started working Saturdays, doing housework, and during the summer the following year I started doing her yardwork as well. I made $3.50 per hour.

She died from breast cancer complications (had been fighting it for about a decade) in 1986, so that summer, I started working at a local nursery school, doing yard work/groundskeeping, etc. That was my first W2 job. Minimum wage, $3.35 per hour.

Whenever people start carrying on about how you can't rent a 2-bedroom apartment anywhere in the country on a minimum wage income, I always bring up my own history. As far as I know, at no time in history has minimum wage every guaranteed anyone the ability to rent a 2-bedroom apartment. When I made minimum wage, my biggest financial concern was saving up for the day I'd get my license, and would have to start dealing with vehicle costs. My Mom hadn't gotten her '86 Monte Carlo yet, so it wasn't a given that I was getting her '80 Malibu.

When school started, I got an after school job at the veterinary clinic that we took our animals to. It paid a little better, $3.75 per hour. I remember Grandmom would pick me up from school on her way home from work, and drop me off at the vet clinic. And then Mom would pick me up around 7:30 in the evening, when I was finished.

That might have been something that prompted Mom getting the Monte Carlo, and giving me the Malibu, because she was getting tired of picking me up in the evenings! She had to deal with it for awhile, though. I remember she got the Monte Carlo in September of 1986. But I didn't get my driver's license until December. Oddly, I can still remember the day I got the Malibu insured in my name...January 19, 1987.

xwesx

fintail said:

IIRC I think one couldn't do that in WA then until they were 15 or 16. I was probably un-ambitious enough to not want to do more than I was doing. IIRC, very few of my friends had "real" jobs either.

xwesx said:

Okay, fine. If that's the case, my first "real" job was summer of '91, at 14.

True. There were significant restrictions on what young people could do. Technically, I was doing things that I was not allowed to do at that age, but I guess the employers didn't provide the details to Dept of Labor. I'm sure Oregon wasn't that far off from WA in those days.

I recall that, after my freshman year in high school (summer of '92), I was the grounds assistant at my local school. I was 14-soon-to-be-15 when I started the job, and I basically did all grounds care, including mowing, irrigating, landscaping, pesticide application, etc. The school grounds had never looked so good as they did by the end of that summer - I lived and breathed that job. However, at the first school board meeting in the fall, there were some "do gooders" in town that complained to the board about me doing the work, how much water I used for irrigating, how young I was, blah blah. Apparently the threats stuck, though, because by supervisor told me that I wasn't going to be able to take the job again the next spring because I "have to be 18, but, because you did such a good job, I'll try to let you do it again at 16 to see if anyone complains."

Instead, I went to Alaska the next summer ('93) and worked as a bookkeeper and real estate assistant for my grandmother's brokerage. She worked me like a rented mule, but it was fabulous experience. By the following summer ('94), when I was 16/17, I had moved on to other challenges and didn't bother with the politics at the school any longer. I did some special projects for my old supervisor, but no regular employment.

xwesx

andre1969 said:

I started working, as in trading my time for money, when I was 13. Summer of 1983. My grandmother knew a lady who was the president of the Prince George's County SPCA, who was getting up in years, and needed help doing housework and yard work. So, I started working Saturdays, doing housework, and during the summer the following year I started doing her yardwork as well. I made $3.50 per hour.

She died from breast cancer complications (had been fighting it for about a decade) in 1986, so that summer, I started working at a local nursery school, doing yard work/groundskeeping, etc. That was my first W2 job. Minimum wage, $3.35 per hour.

Whenever people start carrying on about how you can't rent a 2-bedroom apartment anywhere in the country on a minimum wage income, I always bring up my own history. As far as I know, at no time in history has minimum wage every guaranteed anyone the ability to rent a 2-bedroom apartment. When I made minimum wage, my biggest financial concern was saving up for the day I'd get my license, and would have to start dealing with vehicle costs. My Mom hadn't gotten her '86 Monte Carlo yet, so it wasn't a given that I was getting her '80 Malibu.

When school started, I got an after school job at the veterinary clinic that we took our animals to. It paid a little better, $3.75 per hour. I remember Grandmom would pick me up from school on her way home from work, and drop me off at the vet clinic. And then Mom would pick me up around 7:30 in the evening, when I was finished.

That might have been something that prompted Mom getting the Monte Carlo, and giving me the Malibu, because she was getting tired of picking me up in the evenings! She had to deal with it for awhile, though. I remember she got the Monte Carlo in September of 1986. But I didn't get my driver's license until December. Oddly, I can still remember the day I got the Malibu insured in my name...January 19, 1987.

It's fun hearing that kind of history! That was the same wage I earned in my early years: $3.35/hr. I don't recall when the Feds updated it; maybe the early 90s? When I took my first fast food job, in 1994, I think the minimum wage was up to $4.15. It seems so inconsequential now, but, at that time (1994), fuel was still at or below $1.00/gal, so it wasn't such a horrible thing in relation. At least, not for a kid still living at home and just saving for college and vehicle-related costs.

fintail

Heck, in my area, 2 40 hour per week minimum wage jobs won't pay for a 2 bedroom apartment unless you want to live literally 100 miles from work.

I think state min wage was around $5/hr when I entered the game. Unfortunately, most cost of living factors have greatly exceeded min wage increases (especially on the federal side). I remember when I had my first "real" job after college, in that wonderful post dot com bust era, that paid a little more than double minimum wage - I felt like I was raking it in.

fintail

Yeah, a limit to hours and days especially, at least in WA. I assume it is still like that, and of course there's probably much more competition on that end of the work spectrum.

xwesx said:

True. There were significant restrictions on what young people could do. Technically, I was doing things that I was not allowed to do at that age, but I guess the employers didn't provide the details to Dept of Labor. I'm sure Oregon wasn't that far off from WA in those days.

uplanderguy

I was making $13,500 when I got my first "real" job in 1980. I rented a small addition--bedroom and bathroom--tacked on to an older couple's house--no kitchen. But I was travelling 50% of the time and on an expense report. It was enough for me to buy my first new car in Jan. '81, a new Monte Carlo V8 with a sticker total at the bottom of $8,192.00. I remember that, and the date, Jan. 17, as clear as a bell. I had my hometown dealer locate it. I was working in Myrtle Beach when my Dad called to tell me he saw it sitting out back at our local dealer. It was stolen and never recovered, about 18 months later.

ab348

I also got my first real job in 1980, making $12,500. When I moved on a little over 2 years later I was making $15,500. Those first few years I was living with my Dad so I didn't pay rent which let me save some money on not a big salary. In '83 I got my own apartment - I think the rent was somewhere between $500 and $600/month.

I do have some sympathy for those earning minimum wage but that used to be for jobs that were transient, temporary or entry-level. You weren't raising a family as a sandwich artist at Subway. The modern-day concept touting the need for a "living wage" ignores that. It also ignores the reality that if such a thing were to occur, all other higher-value jobs that actually require education, skills, experience and training would need to be adjusted upwards accordingly.

xwesx

/ranton

Agreed; a solo-earner at minimum wage shouldn't be, was never meant to be, a living wage for a household. For people willing to accept that as their top earning potential, they either need to be in a multi-earner scenario in terms of living expenses, or have housing that accommodates that level of income.

As a society, perhaps one of the single most-needed items that we currently overlook is the availability of such housing that also honors human dignity. With such in place, it might not be such a stretch for people to dream big enough, and realistically enough, to eventually move on to higher wage scales.

One argument I regularly hear about minimum wage jobs is that "society needs the minimum wage jobs to function. These are the retail/service workers, the janitors, the people that keep the most basic things working." And, this is completely true. However, what goes unsaid is that there is no need for the people in those roles to be "lifers." There is an endless supply of unskilled labor entering the workforce... they're called "teens." If people cycle through those jobs in 2-4 years on average, moving on up the skill chain, nobody will ever miss them; they should do this; we WANT them to do this.

/rantoff

xwesx

Getting slightly back on topic.... does a 1990 Civic count as classic/antique nowadays? It seems shocking if it does.

Either way, there is a white coupe of this age that took to parking next to the Q5 this week. It looks like maybe a student's car and is fairly well ratted out. However, it is a manual transmission, which is somewhat redeeming! It shocks me just how tiny the wheels and tires are on these cars. I don't remember them so tiny, but I doubt all four weight as much as one wheel/tire on the Q5.

fintail

If only we had some of the realities of 40-50 years ago. I'll trade those high interest rates for some other societal factors (a 10% mortgage on a 75K house is a lot easier than 3.5% on a 900K house, while at the same time salaries have maybe tripled). Fortunately states can set their own wages, as the federal minimum wage likely lags the increase in every cost of living factor from 1980 compared to today. And I won't get into population growth almost certainly passing the growth of actual living wage jobs. Dual income households have been the only savior, for non-singles anyway.

On the obscure front, not rare, but someone in my building has turned up with an early Miata. The person is apparently an "enthusiast", as it is heavily modified, loud, and appears to have been ridden hard and put away wet. I suspect the emissions stuff is long gone, as it emits fumes that might be stronger than how the fintail tries to keep the world from cooling too much

uplanderguy

My first place (really, a room plus bathroom) was $40 a week in 1980, but again, I travelled half the time.

Even where I grew up, my parents (Dad worked at the post office; Mom was a housewife) paid $200 a month rent for a 1956 small ranch with attached one-car garage and a half-acre property, until my mother moved into assisted living in 1999. My Dad never wanted to own a home for some reason. Homes there are still very reasonable, even compared to where I live now. Most industry is gone there but it was an old money town, so there are still nice houses on nice pieces of land. I'd retire there, but my wife (who's not from there) said I'd go by myself if I did.

omarman

Wow. Lots of memories tied to minimum wage life...After HS some friends and I took any job around while looking/interviewing for better jobs at the same time. For example one of my friends ("Disco Dude" if you're here on the forum, I hope you and "Disco Lady" are still stayin' alive) and I were working at a Lancaster Colony pottery factory for near minimum wage. About $3 per hour at the time. For some reason we were focused on applying/working for utility companies but I can't remember why.

DD applied to a local city water dept and I interviewed for Ohio Power. But everyone working at the factory had other plans for better jobs and the company knew it. Why not? They were doing ok with a regular supply of cheap labor and we were all just getting started and glad to be making something.

Some good times back then. Manual labor keeps you busy while your mind is making other plans.