I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

uplanderguy

Functionally, I seem to remember the Aztek getting good reviews, but the styling was dreadful. In hindsight, to me, not as bad as the Cube and Juke.

I plainly remember the first time I saw one. I was coming home the back way from work about 40 miles east of me, and I drove quite near Lordstown. I saw a yellow one with GM plates and thought "WTH?".

I also plainly remember the very first Pacer I saw. In our town the AMC dealer was also the Chrysler-Plymouth dealer (and in fact, from '69 to '72 was the authorized Studebaker parts and service dealer, taking over when the Stude dealer closed in Dec. '68). My buddy and I were looking at something-or-rather on the lot and a salesman said, "Want to see the new car?". I knew AMC had something new on the way. He took us to a corner of the service dept. and there it was....a plain-Jane bright yellow Pacer. I was stunned. He said "What do you think?". I was speechless, LOL. I will say in hindsight, that the use of space and visibility were pretty good.

ab348

About 6 months after they came out I had to get a rental car for a business trip and got a white Aztek. They were still pretty uncommon on the roads (because they didn't sell) and the reactions from people in other cars were hilarious. I remember being in traffic next to a car with a group of young kids in it and they were all pointing and laughing. I recall that it drove quite well and had lots of interior room, but the styling was just a disaster.

I remember the local Pontiac dealer had acres of them on the new-car lot. I assume they were convinced to take a lot of them before the reality hit that nobody wanted to buy one.

I remember driving the new Pacer in '75 when Dad was in the market for a new car. It actually had a really nice interior compared to the other AMC offerings, and lots of space inside. Didn't drive badly though the 258 engine was a bit overmatched, but it seemed smooth and fairly quiet, The parents said not a chance, and bought a Sportabout wagon instead.

andre1969

Yeah, I can remember when I was a kid, we used to make fun of Pacers. I appreciate them more now, and think it would be kinda cool to have one, but at the time they just seemed like big goldfish bowls, upside-down bathtubs, etc. When you figure the prevailing style of the time was personified by the Monte Carlo, you had to be a bit of an oddball, I guess, to buy one.

That wide look didn't help at all, either, as it made them look fat. One thing I'll say for them though, they were roomy and comfy, up front at least. I sat in one once in the junkyard, that had just come in and hadn't been pulled apart yet. It felt downright midsized up front, but the back seat was pretty cramped. I just looked up the specs though, and they show 34.8" of rear seat legroom, which is probably better than any midsized coupe on the market in '75. IIRC, my '76 LeMans is only 32.9".

I'd imagine the Pacer's back seat was still pretty uncomfortable, though. They really shoved the back seat as far as they could, in relation to the rear axle, so the wheel wells cut into shoulder and hip room. And being practically over the axle like that, you probably felt every bump! My buddy's old 2006 Xterra was like that. Surprisingly good legroom in the back seat, despite its stubby wheelbase, but the seat was pushed pretty far back. It wasn't as bad as the Pacer though, as it only compromised hip room, but shoulder room was still decent.

As for the Aztek, as I recall, the people who had them, loved them. They took a lot of flack for being based on the minivans, which gave them a high beltline and awkward proportions, but that minivan heritage might have proved to be an asset when it came to back seat and cargo room. I've noticed that most vehicles that have seats that are designed to fold flat or be removed usually sacrifice some comfort, compared to a decent sedan, but minivans tend to be more comfortable than SUVs and crossovers. So that minivan DNA in the Aztek might not have been all bad.

tjc78

In all reality the Aztec and Buick Rendezvous (GM doesn’t ever miss a change to brand engineer) were good vehicles with plenty of room.

The Rendezvous was obviously styled with a lot more restraint than the Pontiac.

I knew someone who had a burnt orange Aztec. She loved the thing. I asked why orange and she said if you are going to drive something this ugly you may as well go all in! This was after we were walking in the parking lot and I commented wow .. that’s one ugly car. Foot in mouth moment ... but we both got a good laugh.

Speaking of Aztecs, Walt in Breaking Bad sure knew how to abuse one!

fintail

Oddly, I find the Rendezvous to be uglier than the Aztek. The Pontiac has some funky charm in a way, while the Buick to me is just ungainly, some of that early 00s GM flair that the group has tried to distance itself from.

I too laughed at Pacers when I was a kid in the 80s, and they were just unloved used cars. I think they are kind of cool now though.

Speaking of reactions of others, I remember going for a ride in the first PT Cruiser to hit the streets in the college town where I lived at the time. The dealer was using it as a demo, and a friend of mine was into it, so we went to look at it, and the dealer let us take it out for a drive (this was maybe the spring of 2000). I remember it turned plenty of heads and some people pointed etc. Too bad that one withered on the vine, it had a lot of positive momentum at launch.

roadburner

Speaking of using older cars as a DD, I’d happily daily a 2002 with a decent head unit and upgraded A/C. I loved my ‘75.

tjc78

roadburner said:

Speaking of using older cars as a DD, I’d happily daily a 2002 with a decent head unit and upgraded A/C. I loved my ‘75.

I’d have no problems driving something older as well, provided it had same things. Good tunes and AC are high on the list.

I DD’d my beat up 79 Continental 60 miles round trip up the Schuykill expressway in the early 2000s. It was actually kinda fun. Bone chilling AC and I installed a nice stereo with a sub.

Why don’t new cars have AC systems like that any longer? On a humid day it would actually blow frost if the window was cracked.

andre1969

tjc78 said:

Why don’t new cars have AC systems like that any longer? On a humid day it would actually blow frost if the window was cracked.

I think it's a combination of smaller compressors for fuel economy standards, and the freon they use nowadays isn't as potent as the old R12.

ab348

When I bought this house in '97, cash flow was a challenge because of that for a few years and so my DD was a '78 Delta 88. Actually once I sorted out some of the issues it had upon purchase it was a great DD. Smooth, quiet, comfortable, scads of room. Surprisingly to me, one of the things I did was fix all of the interior/dash lights that had blown over the previous years. One Sunday afternoon I went out there with a box of all the requisite lamps and a service manual and replaced a bunch of them, some that I didn't even know it had because they were blown. It made an astounding difference driving at night.

ab348

This is a sweet little car:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-innocenti-mini-cooper-1300-export/

stickguy

I like that one!

tjc78

andre1969 said:

tjc78 said:

Why don’t new cars have AC systems like that any longer? On a humid day it would actually blow frost if the window was cracked.

I think it's a combination of smaller compressors for fuel economy standards, and the freon they use nowadays isn't as potent as the old R12.

Yeah the compressor on my 79 was that giant Frigidaire unit seen on so many cars of the era, it took 4.5 lbs of R12 to charge. There was nothing like it.

Many guys will charge their R12 systems with propane. Read about it on several other forums.

fintail

I'd DD an 80s MB, they are closer to modern cars than vintage, in terms of driving feel and some tech. Maybe even some 70s models, although those can sometimes be either quirky or thirsty (or both).

Fintail was my DD from the time I bought it in 1995, until just after the turn of the century, when I finished school and had a normal job with a (small) commute, and decided to make it a weekend driver. No AC, it has a radio, and keeping it going had a hiccup here and there, but we survived.

tjc78 said:

I’d have no problems driving something older as well, provided it had same things. Good tunes and AC are high on the list.

I DD’d my beat up 79 Continental 60 miles round trip up the Schuykill expressway in the early 2000s. It was actually kinda fun. Bone chilling AC and I installed a nice stereo with a sub.

Why don’t new cars have AC systems like that any longer? On a humid day it would actually blow frost if the window was cracked.

tjc78

Gas was cheap then at least! I found an old statement when I was moving and I was filling the tank of that beast for $19.00. I think at it's best I squeezed out 14 MPG mostly highway. Of course I beat it to death and would do a burnout anytime I could (Trac-loc still worked) I even pulled a 26’ box truck out of the mud with it.

uplanderguy

I would absolutely DD a car like ab348's Delta 88! I'd take any of the '77-79 big GM's with at least a 350. Reliable, quiet, comfortable, cheap parts, but around here I'd need to make sure that back bumper isn't waving at me!

roadburner

ab348 said:

This is a sweet little car:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-innocenti-mini-cooper-1300-export/

The guy I bought my Bavaria from also owned two Austin Minis. He had a two car garage and the Bavaria was parked on one side and the two Minis were parked perpendicular to it.

roadburner

Several months ago my British classic car magazine had an article on an interesting Mini derivative- the Broadspeed GT 2+2:

andre1969

I don't know how I managed to come across this, but the next time someone wonders why 3-across seating up front has gone the way of ABBA and the tailfin, just show them this...


It's a 1980 T-bird that popped up for sale. I think one reason it caught my eye, is that I remember saying one area where GM's downsized intermediates came up short compared to their Colonade predecessors was in the center spot up front. But, Ford's Fox platform takes it to a new extreme! No wonder the majority of them had bucket seats up front! Or at least, those individual seats where you had the little bin on the side.

Suddenly, a 1980 Malibu or Monte Carlo doesn't seem so cramped, if you get stuck in the middle up front.

**Edit...just just dawned on me, though...were those Foxes that cramped, or is that front seat just moved up to accommodate a really short driver?

Here's a '78 Monte Carlo, for comparison...

uplanderguy

After having four Monte Carlos of '80-84 vintage in our immediate family, I can tell you the center position was doable. That '78 in your pic has an aftermarket catch-all-thingy on the floor.

That Thunderbird has the center pod right on the floor, sheesh.

I like gloss black trim inside, but that panel does about as much for me as the outside of the '80-82 Thunderbird. I know they say HFII liked that 'carved out of a block of wood' style, but total ugh to my eyes.

I absolutely HATED how when you didn't get A/C in a '78-80 Malibu or Monte Carlo, they stuck that big block of plastic where the rightmost A/C vent would be. I've said this here before, but our '80 Monte Carlo with no A/C actually had an A/C vent there--mistake--but it sure looked better. I had to prove to my Dad that nothing ever came out of it.

I always thought the panel was sort-of modern for the time, looking modular, so I liked the zero woodgrain and subtle gloss black and gold pinstripe around the instruments and radio and climate control. The '80 had woodgrain around the instruments, radio and heater, and in that narrow strip of horizontal area across 2/3 of the panel on the right side. The woodgrain,old-skool, looked dumb with the modular dash to my eyes. Then in '81 and later, the desire to woodgrain an enormous section of the right 2/3 of the panel was overbearing--that, plus the woodgrain itself was awful. My '81 had no A/C and as a gag I could pull the entire, enormous woodgrain panel out of the dash (it just snapped in) and I'd hand it to the passenger and say "Can you hold this?".

andre1969

One detail I actually do like about the T-bird dash, for some reason, is that long, thin strip that runs across the top of the dash. I think it might have housed a few of the idiots lights, and possibly the turn signals? My grandparents' '85 LTD had it as well. I don't know why it catches my eye, but it just does! Maybe because the '77-81 Catalina/Bonneville had a similar thing with their dash? With the Pontiacs though, it was larger and had the HVAC ducts worked into it.

It's been ages since I've crammed 3 across in the front seat of a '78-88 GM A/G body...probably not since I've been an adult. I do remember Grandmom and Granddad squeezing 6 of us (grandparents, plus me, plus 3 of my cousins) into both their '77 and '81 Granadas on occasion. But, we were kids then. And, as I recall, by the time they got the '81, we weren't all together quite as often. And in the past, it was always one of the smaller grandkids who got stuck in the center up front (we were all similar age, but had different growth spurts), but by the time they had the '81, it was Grandmom getting stuck in the center!

tjc78

Nah the Foxes aren’t that cramped. The seat is really forward. I’ve sat in one of those and it was fine (6’ tall).

fintail

I recall my friend's 83 Monte could fit 6 in a pinch, although maybe not good for the long haul.

If I'm getting a malaisey Bird, I want this interior:



But on one of these, a definite guilty pleasure, must have t-tops:

tjc78

fintail said:

I recall my friend's 83 Monte could fit 6 in a pinch, although maybe not good for the long haul.

If I'm getting a malaisey Bird, I want this interior:



But on one of these, a definite guilty pleasure, must have t-tops:

In sure you know I’d rock that... but would go all the way with a Mark V.

I used to hate red interiors, but now I really tend to like them. The lip stick style above always looks good.

ab348

They used that same dash design in the 1984-up LTD II. Although I think they never offered a straight-across bench in those, though I may be wrong.

fintail

Same steering wheel with a Mark V, too, IIRC. But no t-top option, although I guess a moonroof would be halfway there. The t-tops on that Bird, however, push it over the top - I already think it is isn't bad looking (ignoring the overhangs). White interior would be perfect in a t-top car, although a silvery blue exterior or interior (not sure if it existed) would be nice, too. The "lipstick" theme also works with the car and the era - put some Donna Summer in the 8 track and cruise the boulevard.

tjc78 said:

In sure you know I’d rock that... but would go all the way with a Mark V.

I used to hate red interiors, but now I really tend to like them. The lip stick style above always looks good.

stickguy

I really hate that single spoke Ford steering wheel that droops down at either end. That and the common AT design for the cruise-o-matic. Couldn't stand that either.

andre1969

ab348 said:

They used that same dash design in the 1984-up LTD II. Although I think they never offered a straight-across bench in those, though I may be wrong.

The '85 LTD that my grandparents traded their '81 Granada in for had those seats. It's interesting though, how they switched up the interior upholstery. On that one above, the seats are cloth, but the door panels full vinyl. That lower part was sort of a woven/thatch pattern, but still vinyl. The one my grandparents had was just the opposite. It had cloth inserts, although the top part of the door panel was still vinyl. But, the seats were vinyl. It was a nice vinyl though, as I recall...unless it was actually leather? I checked out a few brochures, and it looks like leather was an option on the LTD Brougham. I honestly can't remember if their car was a Brougham or not.

Oh, the 1984 brochure, at least, does say "Also available, at no extra cost, is the flight bench front seat. *"

*See your dealer for availability.

I can't recall ever seeing a Fox-based LTD with a bench seat, though.

andre1969

I always thought the dash that Ford used in the '72-79 intermediates was really good looking. The only downside, I guess, is that it was perhaps a bit too "corporate", in that they used it in everything from the cheapest Torino to the nicest T-bird or Cougar. Sure, they'd change some of the materials and dress it up here and there, and I've seen some versions where you had an array of smaller gauges toward the center. But it still had that similarity about it.

To be fair though, Mopar was doing the same thing, with their '71-79 B-bodies. GM was able to keep that individuality going for longer, but when the midsized cars downsized, they started getting more of a similarity. And, a lot of other platforms were starting to share dashboards across divisions, as well.

fintail

I always called it the "frowny" steering wheel, I think seen in everything from a Pinto to Continental and all inbetween. I recall turn of the century GM trucks/SUVs also had a corporate frowny wheel used in everything

stickguy said:

I really hate that single spoke Ford steering wheel that droops down at either end. That and the common AT design for the cruise-o-matic. Couldn't stand that either.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I absolutely HATED how when you didn't get A/C in a '78-80 Malibu or Monte Carlo, they stuck that big block of plastic where the rightmost A/C vent would be. I've said this here before, but our '80 Monte Carlo with no A/C actually had an A/C vent there--mistake--but it sure looked better. I had to prove to my Dad that nothing ever came out of it.

Now you’ve got me thinking. Our ‘78 Grand LeMans Safari didn’t have A/C. But we did have fresh air coming out of the dash vents. At least the center ones. I think the end ones were functional too. But it’s been over 40 years.

andre1969

Not that I see '78-81 LeManses (or '82-86 Bonneville Gs, or '78-87 Grand Prixes) on a regular basis, but I don't think I've ever seen one with the outer dash vents deleted, or filled with a blank plate.

I wonder if that was something that only Chevy was doing, by that time? I tried googling pics of GM intermediates with no a/c, but the only one I found, other than Chevies, was a green 1977 Century coupe. The writeup actually mentioned that it had no a/c. But in the interior pic, it still looked like it had all four vents.

I think if I had one of those non-a/c Malibus or Monte Carlos, I'd be tempted to find some vent faces, and put them in, in place of the covers.

uplanderguy

I think if I had one of those non-a/c Malibus or Monte Carlos, I'd be tempted to find some vent faces, and put them in, in place of the covers.

Me too. As much as I love 'stock', having a vent with chrome edging there sure looks better than that hunk of colored plastic.

There was a '78 Malibu Classic Landau, with 19K miles for sale a year or so ago; 305 with factory 4-speed and no A/C. I liked it...a lot. If I'd bought it I'd have had to do this very thing.

The '81 and later, had that enormous decorative panel there which extended over where that right filler block would be. The big Chevy midsizes, '73 to '77, had a different instrument panel pad than the A/C cars so there was no opening at the right end to fill in.

RE.: '77-79 Thunderbirds--that is a good style I think. A friend's Dad, a Service Mgr. at a Chevy/Buick dealer, used to call them "the stubbies". That decklid is certainly short--no complaining a la '62 Star Chief out of me, LOL! But it appears shorter even than Colonnade coupe decklid areas.

uplanderguy

That '77-79 Thunderbird--I wonder who said, "Let's put these vertical vent pieces on the front fender". It'd be cleaner without them.

Like the '58 Impala--I hate that chrome 'comb' on the rear quarters, in front of the wheel opening. Removing that would make the styling much sharper to my eyes. Of course, I know it was the late '50's at GM, LOL.

andre1969

On the '58 Impala, that chrome thing in front of the rear wheel opening was probably designed to emulate the air intake on a jet fighter, or something. Or perhaps high-powered cars, that might have venting there, to help cool the rear wheels/brakes a bit?

By the time of that T-bird, retro was in, although back then they called it "neoclassic". I think those fake vents (I'm presuming they're fake?) were probably meant to imitate the vents on old cars from the '30's and such? Anyway, in some cases, they do serve a purpose. On Chrysler, it's one way that they let you know a car isn't just a New Yorker, but a New Yorker 5th Avenue Edition!

fintail

I always thought the Bird had the vents because this has the vents:

uplanderguy

Probably right, fin. No one ever has asked me, but even that Mark V would look nicer without those I think. And I remember those were quite "3D".

That reminds me of a Mark IV story. My mother never drove and would walk to one of the two nearest neighborhood stores--think Ike Godsey's place on 'The Waltons'; screen door that went "thwap" when you closed it. In the '70's, after a walk to the one store, she described a car to me that had to be a Mark IV--"long front end; oval window on the side". She said she looked up and she was absolutely certain it was John Dean (Watergate figure) driving. Where she saw it was two blocks from where his parents lived.

fintail

I have but one Mark IV story. Back in the mid 90s, a young woman relative was the type who'd buy a $600 beater, keep it 6-8 months until it suffered a malady, and replace it. She showed up in a relatively decent blue and white Mark IV, which she liked a lot as she had a thing for old Lincolns. Not long after, she was rear-ended by a Geo Prizm. The impact crunched the front of the Geo, but there was barely a scrape on the Lincoln, nobody would have noticed. She got a kick out of that, but she suspected the impact might have bent the frame or something, as she said it never drove quite right after. IIRC it was replaced by a Granada coupe.

ab348

Ford's move of the Thunderbird to the Elite/Cougar/Torino/Montego intermediate platform in '77-'79 must have been a huge moneymaker for them, as they seemed to sell like hotcakes for those 3 model years. It must have been a shock not only to the customer base but also to their bean counters when the horrid '80-'82 replacement came out to a loud thud in the marketplace.

I really liked the '77-'79 version, especially the '79 with the updated grille, though I thought the revisions to the rear end/taillights were less successful. I tried really hard to get Dad to buy one in '79 when he decided he needed to replace the Maverick, but both parents were biased against 2-door vehicles, and we ended up with a '79 Impala 4-door, which was a good car but nowhere near as flashy as the T-Bird.

uplanderguy

Seems I used to see a fair amount of that era 'Bird in dark blue with saddle top, interior, and side moldings. Was there an edition with matching vinyl straps down the decklid, or am I hallucinating?

ab348

uplanderguy said:

Seems I used to see a fair amount of that era 'Bird in dark blue with saddle top, interior, and side moldings. Was there an edition with matching vinyl straps down the decklid, or am I hallucinating?

The "Sports Decor Group" is what you remember. I never cared for that look.

andre1969

I've always wondered, with the '80 T-bird, if it was the downsizing that killed it or the recession? While it did take a big hit versus '79, all these personal luxury coupes did except, oddly, the Dodge Mirada. Somehow, it managed to sell slightly higher than the '79 Magnum XE it replaced. But, it was still a poor seller and considered a loser. The '80 Thunderbird still outsold the Monte Carlo and the Grand Prix, although the Regal sold better, and the Cutlass Supreme coupe was almost unstoppable back then.

In '81 though, GM's personal luxury coupes had a momentary resurgence with the slightly aero re-skin, a feat that was probably hard to accomplish, considering that as a whole, 1981 was an even worse sales year than 1980. That probably put more pressure on the T-bird and Cougar XR-7. 1982 was an even worse year than '81, and T-bird/Cougar XR-7 sales plummeted even further. Whatever magic GM had with the 1981 restyle, wasn't enough to offset a worsening economy, and their '82 personal luxury coupes were down considerably, even the mighty Cutlass Supreme.

I can't remember if 1983 was an even worse year, or if it flattened out and was about the same as 1982, but it was a horrible year. A few factoids I remember...the domestic auto industry sold about 5.5 million cars, total, and about 3.5 million of those were GM products. However, this was just GM/Ford/Chrysler/AMC. No imports, and nothing classified as a truck. Pontiac also bottomed out, with only around 300,000 units sold, total. It slipped to 6th place, behind Mercury. But meanwhile, both Olds and Buick outsold Ford!

But, while it wasn't a good year for Ford, in general, the '83 T-bird was a pretty big hit, considering the overall economy. Here's some sales stats over the years:
1976: 52,935 (last of the big 'uns)
1977: 318,140
1978: 352,751
1979: 284,141
1980: 156,803
1981: 86,693
1982: 45,142
1983: 121,999
1984: 170,553
1985: 150,851
1986: 163,965

uplanderguy

Thanks for the confirmation, ab348. Those straps are just more clutter to my eyes.

Where I lived, from maybe '80 to '82, I'd see cars called "Somerset Regal" or "Regal Somerset" (before the N-cars) that were often a beige with navy blue side paint and beige and blue interiors. Weird combination. I think, but am not sure, that they were a regional dealer production run.

ab348

I don’t know for sure how the U.S. economy was in those years but memory tells me that it tanked after the Reagan inauguration and that problem hung on for a few years. But really, the ‘80-82 T-Bird was such an unattractive car with a badly underpowered drivetrain that it’s fairly remarkable that they were able to sell as many as they did.

andre1969

Back when I delivered pizzas in the late 90's, I used to see a Somerset Regal parked in front of a house in my delivery area. This one was an '81 or later. I used to think it was sort of Buick's version of the Olds Cutlass Calais (which I think they called Cutlass Salon once the N-body Calais came out)...basically a sportier car, but not necessarily with any go-fast upgrades.

But, it looks like it was a low volume trim package for the Limited. Here's a poster for an '81 at OldCarBrochures.com

I swear the one I'm remembering was navy blue with beige sides, I'm going on ~20 year old memories now. I did fine one online, an '82, that had navy blue sides and beige hood/roof/trunk and lower body. So, maybe it was an '82 I saw, and my memory is just flipping the colors.

uplanderguy

Yeah, here's what I was remembering:

https://www.virtualparking.net/post/924/1982-buick-regal-somerset-limited

ab348

Something tells me that Buick did that on the 1980 version too.

andre1969

Yeah, from what I've been able to cobble together, it was offered from 1980-82. However, it was a trim package, rather than a model, so they didn't keep track of how many were built.

Here's the folder for the 1980: http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Buick/1980_Buick/1980 Buick Regal Somerset Brochure/index1.html

Interesting that they went from blue/creme in '80, to the brown/camel in '81, but then back to blue/creme for '82. If nothing else, I guess that made each year somewhat unique!

I thought that when the Monte Carlo went to quads for 1980, it looked a bit awkward, but I think the Regal, and Cutlass Supreme, handled that transition year pretty well.

fintail

Something I dislike about the peak malaise 80-82 T-Birds, the font on this badge:



It couldn't be more pretentious.

I'm surprised the 83 sold so well, given the design was such a quantum leap, and personal luxury coupe buyers might not be the most daring consumers. Also for the 77-79 sales, I suspect they were cheaper than their leviathan predecessors, which seemed to come pretty loaded - I've seen some spartan looking 77-79s, and I am pretty sure they were also in period rental fleets.

andre1969

Yeah, the '76 T-bird was more of a real luxury car, essentially a Mark IV for buyers on a bit of a budget. Probably on par with something like a Buick Riviera or Olds Toronado. Ford experimented with a Monte Carlo-sized T-bird with the '74-76 Torino Elite, which sold fairly well, but then decided to take the plunge and bring the T-bird to the mass market for 1977.

The '76 T-bird started at $7790. The '77 was only $5063, but there was a "Town Landau" version that was $7990. My book doesn't break out production of them, but I'm sure the cheap one saw most of the sales. I'd be curious to know what the price would be on one of those $5,063 models if you tried to equip it somewhat like the '76. In '76, a 460 was standard. So was a/c, power windows, a split bench seat, and an AM/FM stereo. For '77, a 302 was standard. You could option it up to a 400, which was probably a bit quicker than the 460 in the '76 had been, thanks to the lighter body. A/C and power windows were now optional though. You also had to pay extra for a split bench seat. And I'd imagine the radio was downgraded as well.

Hmm, sounds like I just kinda built myself a Town Landau, there! http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird/tbird1977townlandau.html

stickguy

I couldn't remember what the 80 vintage T Bird was so I googled. First on that popped up, a 56K mile 1 owner out of an estate, that is sitting about a place about a mile from me. Did not look that bad to me. A lot tidier design than the '79