I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

I can still remember the commercials for the '80 T-bird, around late 1979. As a kid it got me excited, because it was the first time I'd seen a car with a digital dashboard.



In retrospect, it doesn't look like it was very informative, but hey, I was 9 years old, I didn't know any better!

That shift selector quadrant is kind of interesting, too...P-R-N-D-3-1? Was that the 4-speed overdrive, and they just wouldn't let you manually select second?

roadburner

As I've said, I loved my 1984 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe; people were usually surprised when I mentioned it had a five speed manual gearbox.

tjc78

andre1969 said:

I can still remember the commercials for the '80 T-bird, around late 1979. As a kid it got me excited, because it was the first time I'd seen a car with a digital dashboard.



In retrospect, it doesn't look like it was very informative, but hey, I was 9 years old, I didn't know any better!

That shift selector quadrant is kind of interesting, too...P-R-N-D-3-1? Was that the 4-speed overdrive, and they just wouldn't let you manually select second?

Oh you can... it’s called the AOD shuffle. 1-D-1. That will lock second gear. It’s also a good way to kill said AOD.

uplanderguy

Not sure about Chrysler, but GM's AOD's let you shift manually 1-2-3-OD. Of course, the early ones tended to self-destruct anyway.

uplanderguy

Speaking of fonts, I used to always like that the Monte Carlo used this script from 1970 through 1988, on all but the '83-88 SS models. It was typically general that during a redesign, the nameplates would change, but this nameplate went through, I'd say, 3.5 generations of Monte Carlo:

fintail

That script is very "brougham" to me. like the 72-76 T-Bird:

fintail

The Town Landau sounds like a mini Mark V. I think the Diamond Jubilee and Heritage cars could be expensive, too.

I've also seen them with manual windows, basic upholstery, hubcaps, etc.

andre1969 said:

Yeah, the '76 T-bird was more of a real luxury car, essentially a Mark IV for buyers on a bit of a budget. Probably on par with something like a Buick Riviera or Olds Toronado. Ford experimented with a Monte Carlo-sized T-bird with the '74-76 Torino Elite, which sold fairly well, but then decided to take the plunge and bring the T-bird to the mass market for 1977.

The '76 T-bird started at $7790. The '77 was only $5063, but there was a "Town Landau" version that was $7990. My book doesn't break out production of them, but I'm sure the cheap one saw most of the sales. I'd be curious to know what the price would be on one of those $5,063 models if you tried to equip it somewhat like the '76. In '76, a 460 was standard. So was a/c, power windows, a split bench seat, and an AM/FM stereo. For '77, a 302 was standard. You could option it up to a 400, which was probably a bit quicker than the 460 in the '76 had been, thanks to the lighter body. A/C and power windows were now optional though. You also had to pay extra for a split bench seat. And I'd imagine the radio was downgraded as well.

Hmm, sounds like I just kinda built myself a Town Landau, there! http://automotivemileposts.com/tbird/tbird1977townlandau.html

uplanderguy

Something I liked on the '78-85 Monte Carlos is the placement of that script on the side of the car--in front of the front wheel openings, somewhat unusual.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

Not sure about Chrysler, but GM's AOD's let you shift manually 1-2-3-OD. Of course, the early ones tended to self-destruct anyway.

I couldn't remember the layout on my old 2000 Intrepid, but was pretty sure you couldn't manually select the lowest gear. I looked around online though, and was able to find a pic. Looks like it was P-R-N-D-3-L. As I recall though, if you shifted it into "L" manually, it would only go into second.



Didn't Ford automatics, at some point in the past, have some kind of feature where you could start off in second rather than first, if you wanted to? I'm thinking this was in the 60's?

ab348

Yes, the old original Ford-O-Matic transmissions started in second. Wiki explains:

"The original Ford-O-Matic, while capable of three forward speeds, started out in second and shifted to third, with first only being used when selecting L on the gear shift column.[4] However, if floored from a standing start, it would immediately shift from second to low then shift back to second and then third as the vehicle accelerated. The Ford-O-Matic was manufactured from 1951 until it was replaced by the C4 in 1964.[2] Ultimately the transmission Ford licensed to build from Warner Gear/B-W was less expensive to build than the Detroit Gear/B-W unit that Ford had initially sought to license from Studebaker. When Studebaker ran into financial difficulty in the mid-1950s, Studebaker turned to Ford and licensed the less expensive Ford-O-Matic, rebranded it as the Flight-O-Matic, and dropped the DG transmission from its line-up. "

ab348

Here's a shot I've never seen before that just popped up today in a local FB group. Factory lot for finished vehicle inventory at the Bricklin assembly plant in Saint John, NB in '74 or '75.

andre1969

Watching tv today, and feeling a bit extra patriotic, I decided to watch "Red Dawn". I had forgotten about the '69 Pontiac in it, as it had been ages since I've seen the movie. Something tells me this isn't gonna end well...


Interior shot...something seems amiss here

uplanderguy

I'm always impressed to see a Ventura! Rarely seen in my memory.

Yeah, inside it's a Bonneville! LOL Back then I wouldn't totally rule that out as an assembly-line goof, LOL.

I always remember thinking that those letters could maybe wash off with a strong cleaner,LOL.

tjc78

andre1969 said:

uplanderguy said:

Not sure about Chrysler, but GM's AOD's let you shift manually 1-2-3-OD. Of course, the early ones tended to self-destruct anyway.

I couldn't remember the layout on my old 2000 Intrepid, but was pretty sure you couldn't manually select the lowest gear. I looked around online though, and was able to find a pic. Looks like it was P-R-N-D-3-L. As I recall though, if you shifted it into "L" manually, it would only go into second.



Didn't Ford automatics, at some point in the past, have some kind of feature where you could start off in second rather than first, if you wanted to? I'm thinking this was in the 60's?

The C6 did it too in the 70s. It was called select shift or something like that. My 79 Continental had it. That second gear start and trac loc rear made that car great in the snow.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

I'm always impressed to see a Ventura! Rarely seen in my memory.

Yeah, inside it's a Bonneville! LOL Back then I wouldn't totally rule that out as an assembly-line goof, LOL.

I always remember thinking that those letters could maybe wash off with a strong cleaner,LOL.

Those letters WOULD wash off! I had a '69 Bonneville 4-door hardtop, and I think it was even that same interior color. I remember mine as being sort of a greenish-goldish color, where this one looks a bit more brownish. But, that could simply be the way the light is hitting it, and even color-correction on the film, and/or my tv.

I remember one day cleaning out the interior, and whatever I was using to wipe down the dash, started rubbing the coloring out of the words.

fintail

I remember in Red Dawn, the (soviet-backed) Cuban invaders commandeered an old Cadillac, which I thought was fitting given the old car culture in Cuba:

andre1969

I hadn't seen the movie in ages, but it's amazing, how quickly most of it came back to me. High school student parking lots were also a lot more interesting back then...



I had forgotten they did a remake of "Red Dawn", as well. On one hand, I'm a bit curious to watch it, to compare. But on the other hand, I'm thinking I might have seen it before, and it was so forgettable that I just don't remember it.

stickguy

out driving today. Wet roads from melting, so lots of spray getting on the car, with probably some salt mixed in. Not a day for driving an old car.

but, out running around was a late run (bumper car) MGB. Robin's egg blue. Looked pretty solid, but driving much on days like today, not likely to last. It also had PA plates so not even close to home!

Michaell

andre1969 said:

I hadn't seen the movie in ages, but it's amazing, how quickly most of it came back to me. High school student parking lots were also a lot more interesting back then...



I had forgotten they did a remake of "Red Dawn", as well. On one hand, I'm a bit curious to watch it, to compare. But on the other hand, I'm thinking I might have seen it before, and it was so forgettable that I just don't remember it.

I saw the remake. The original is better.

fintail

Recent remakes/tributes have turned me off (Poltergeist and Vacation come to mind) so much that I never saw the new Red Dawn. I was never wildly into it when I was a kid, either.

I did recently watch a period movie I file under 'so bad it's good', with a few unusual cars, you don't see these much anymore:

Michaell

fintail said:

Recent remakes/tributes have turned me off (Poltergeist and Vacation come to mind) so much that I never saw the new Red Dawn. I was never wildly into it when I was a kid, either.

I did recently watch a period movie I file under 'so bad it's good', with a few unusual cars, you don't see these much anymore:

New Red Dawn was based in Spokane, FWIW

stickguy

car is easy. But once again, I have no clue what the movie is.

ab348

stickguy said:

car is easy. But once again, I have no clue what the movie is.

Yeah, I just check out of here when the discussion veers into guessing movies instead of vehicles.

fintail

Lighten up Francis, this isn't the guessing vehicles thread

Although speaking of vehicles, in the recent dry break I spotted a clean first gen Accord hatch on collector plates, and languishing in a driveway not far from me is a 69 Galaxie 2 door HT, the buttress style fastback version. Also a Panther CV in the driveway, so I assume a Ford guy lives there.

fintail

I'll have to keep an eye out on streaming services. Apparently filmed in Michigan, so that should be funny. Not like it would cost much to film anything out here.

Oh yeah, and invaded by North Korea lol.

Michaell said:

New Red Dawn was based in Spokane, FWIW

andre1969

I had to go to the IMCDB and search through Matador wagons to find what movie that was from. Thankfully there were only 43 listed...try that with a Honda Accord and you're gonna be there awhile!

Michaell

fintail said:

I'll have to keep an eye out on streaming services. Apparently filmed in Michigan, so that should be funny. Not like it would cost much to film anything out here.

Oh yeah, and invaded by North Korea lol.

Michaell said:

New Red Dawn was based in Spokane, FWIW

Yeah, there was a big kefluffle when the movie was being made - originally, the bad guys were supposed to be the Chinese, but since China is the second largest movie-going market, that was shot down and the script hastily rewritten.

The original Red Dawn was set in Colorado, but actually filmed in and around Las Vegas, NM.

fintail

Don't bite the hand that feeds you

The Red Dawn plot made me snark even when I was a kid...yeah, the Soviets (when they were knee deep in Afghanistan) and Cubans invaded a landlocked state, sure, right. DPRK invading Spokane is even funnier - there's a small Air Force base right here that could probably take out their military. Alas, it's a movie.

That fairly late run Matador wagon was in Superman III - don't see many Matador wagons around.

Another oddity in it is this late run Valiant that crashed into and gets stuck on a fire hydrant, and fills up with water - the car has an odd aftermarket sunroof:

Michaell said:

Yeah, there was a big kefluffle when the movie was being made - originally, the bad guys were supposed to be the Chinese, but since China is the second largest movie-going market, that was shot down and the script hastily rewritten.

The original Red Dawn was set in Colorado, but actually filmed in and around Las Vegas, NM.

fintail

Extra relaxation time these next two weeks gave me a chance to look at childhood locations on Google Earth, and I spotted a couple unusual cars. First, this:



I might have mentioned this one before, but I recall this Hudson Hollywood around town when I was a kid in the 80s. My dad admired this car, and I remember he'd point it out - the owner apparently knew someone near our house, and it was often parked nearby. The car lived a few doors down from a kid I knew at the time, so I recall going by this house. Funny to see it still there.

And then there's this menagerie:



This is where my mom's T-Bird ended up. My dad was friends with this guy, who was and is apparently an old Ford nut, and he had quite a car hoard at the time - 30-35 years ago there were probably 15 or more cars in the backyard, and a lot of 50s stuff, along with a Model A coupe that fascinated me. When the T-Bird conked out, my dad knew this guy would appreciate the parts, and there it went. I recall the guy had a 105E Anglia he drove around town, along with a Bronco lacking doors (looks like he has a couple old Broncos there). Surprised the city hasn't reacted to this, but maybe neighbors don't care. I neglected to go by this house the last time I was in town, I'll have to do it next time, easier now that I am a bit closer.

uplanderguy

I like those step-down Hudsons--there's no confusing them with anything else. I have read that the design could not be facelifted easily, which of course was a downside sales-wise in those days.

sda

Medium blue. black vinyl top 2dr 1969 Thunderbird. Looked clean, nice shape overall.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

I like those step-down Hudsons--there's no confusing them with anything else. I have read that the design could not be facelifted easily, which of course was a downside sales-wise in those days.

Yeah, if this is how they were designed, I could see how facelifts could be a bit hard to accomplish...



The high beltline would definitely betray the age of the car as the years went by, just as it did with Packard. But I think a bigger problem with the Hudson is the way that frame is designed around the rear axle. Looks like the car was doomed to that skirted look and a narrow rear track, unless they did a major redesign of the structure.

About the most you could do is square off the rear-end, and change the front-end. Maybe, they could have done a wraparound windshield at some point? Nash was able to do that with their unitized cars, and Packard was. I've heard the cowl/windshield area is one of the most expensive parts of a car to redesign, but somehow Packard and Nash found the initiative.

Didn't the compact Jet also torpedo Hudson? IIRC, they spent a lot of money developing it, only to have it flop in the marketplace, when they could have used that money instead to focus on updating the big cars.

I think Studebaker got a bit lucky because their '53 models were already fairly low-slung, with somewhat large windows, so the design seemed to age better.

Here's basically what you would have ended up with, if Mopar tried to keep their '49-54 design around another few years...

fintail

I wonder if the USDM Chryslers just became too big, so they offered that down unda? But Oz has always been a fan of American cars, and should generally have enough space for land yachts. Seems a massive facelift like that wouldn't have been cheap, when new models already existed.

Stude definitely got lucky with its futuristic 53 models, I've always found it amusing with those they also weathered the wraparound windshield fad, and were still using the old basis when those became passe.

andre1969 said:

I think Studebaker got a bit lucky because their '53 models were already fairly low-slung, with somewhat large windows, so the design seemed to age better.

Here's basically what you would have ended up with, if Mopar tried to keep their '49-54 design around another few years...

ab348

Good assessments above I think. The problems Hudson and Studebaker faced are similar to those encountered by many smaller companies and not just ones in the automotive sector. Investment in new designs and R&D can be out of reach when you do not have big sales volumes. If you are really small it may be less of a problem ironically, as you are not competing with the big guys.

In these instances getting a lower cowl and greenhouse would have been an expensive proposition. At least Stude was able to develop an OHV V-8, something Hudson never did and Packard only did too late.

andre1969

From what I can gather on Wikipedia, Chrysler of Australia actually built those cars there, starting in 1951. But when the new '55 style came out, Chrysler refused to give the Aussie factory any kind of assistance in updating to the new design, so they just did the best they could, with what they had. They actually produced that style, through 1963.

Starting in 1958, they started shipping over DeSoto Firesweeps, Dodge Custom Royals, and Plymouth Belvederes, as something called a "Knock Down Kit". Basically, all the necessary parts to build a car, in a big box, shipped over to Australia and with final assembly done there.

uplanderguy

The Hudson Jet always reminded me of about a 2/3 scale '52-54 Ford. I was not a fan of that styling (the Ford's) particularly, either.

In the late sixties I can remember a black Jet in our town, red roof, continental kit and skirts, that looked nearly-new. It was always parked at a double house down in the absolutely scruffiest neighborhood in town, but the owner kept the car looking clean.

sda

andre1969 said:

From what I can gather on Wikipedia, Chrysler of Australia actually built those cars there, starting in 1951. But when the new '55 style came out, Chrysler refused to give the Aussie factory any kind of assistance in updating to the new design, so they just did the best they could, with what they had. They actually produced that style, through 1963.

Starting in 1958, they started shipping over DeSoto Firesweeps, Dodge Custom Royals, and Plymouth Belvederes, as something called a "Knock Down Kit". Basically, all the necessary parts to build a car, in a big box, shipped over to Australia and with final assembly done there.

I can only imagine the quality workmanship on those built from the "Knock Down Kit".

fintail

Was Chrysler in bad financial shape then? Or maybe the cost of updating a factory just wasn't worth it.

With the wraparound rear window, that Aussie Royal does resemble a Vauxhall PA Cresta, so it probably looked modern to most consumers even into the early 60s.

RHD conversions were big in Oz then too, I've seen it even on US cars into the 70s and 80s.

andre1969

I think Chrysler was in pretty good shape for most of the 50's, until '58 downturn at least. However, I know '51 was kind of a cooling off period, saleswise. '52 was a pretty bad year. '53 was a great year (DeSoto's second best sales year, after 1950), but then '54 was a bad year, as well.

I think Chrysler had enough money to modernize the cars for '55; they just didn't want to. Apparently, there was a new assembly plant in Australia that had just opened for 1954, and they didn't want to spend the money to change the tooling after just one year.

uplanderguy

Studebaker used to send kits to various assembly points around the world as well....called them "CKD" for "Completely Knocked Down".

RHD Larks aimed at Australia were available to the U.S. market as well, marketed as "Rural Router" Larks.

roadburner

BMW had CKD plants in a few countries- mostly to evade oppressive import tariffs.

explorerx4

I still see some OG Escapes around, although usually not looking too good.
Based on a Mazda platform, I think? Sucky transmission was Mazda. 4cyl Mazda, 6cyl Ford.
Small Blazer was more of a Explorer competitor.

uplanderguy

Saw this today and I was reminded that it was far-and-away my favorite toy as a small kid--the "Playmobile". My mother said I'd sit in front of this thing for hours. I think I got it Christmas '63. It was for sale at the A&P supermarket in our town; that I remember.

Wipers worked, horn beeped, motor noise when you turned the 'key', as shown here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAHI2g_1kyc&fbclid=IwAR2_7sEqHZPLvT0aQnJxgSBSDennRVReyQf45zojn7TCgazM5yDKzYrC3L0

omarman

I remember those things too. Even as a kid it reminded me of this:

uplanderguy

Boy, doesn't it though?! I never thought of that, although the red did remind me of the color Ford used, generally, in that period.

roadburner

uplanderguy said:

Saw this today and I was reminded that it was far-and-away my favorite toy as a small kid--the "Playmobile". My mother said I'd sit in front of this thing for hours. I think I got it Christmas '63. It was for sale at the A&P supermarket in our town; that I remember.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAHI2g_1kyc&fbclid=IwAR2_7sEqHZPLvT0aQnJxgSBSDennRVReyQf45zojn7TCgazM5yDKzYrC3L0

I had one! I remember I was annoyed because the turn signals only lit up and didn't blink. I was also OCD back then.

uplanderguy

Yeah, I remember how the turn signals were really a cheapout, LOL.

My best neighbor friend at the time had some cheap knockoff of this and it showed!

uplanderguy

Roadburner--do you mind if I ask your age? I'm 62.5. As best as I can remember, I got it Christmas '63. As I'd mentioned, for some reason our A&P supermarket had it displayed on their overhead ledge shelfing. I was about 5 1/2.

ab348

I'm 64 and I never had (or ever saw) one of those, but I also have a slightly car-related Christmas memory of that time when I was about that same age. Back in those years up here we had a single TV channel, CBC. The program everyone watched was Hockey Night in Canada on Saturday nights. It was sponsored by Ford and Imperial Oil (Esso). Esso stations had a promo of an early tabletop hockey game advertised on HNIC, available at your friendly Esso dealer. My and my brother cajoled our parents to find us one as they were in perpetually short supply. To our delight one magically appeared.

roadburner

uplanderguy said:

Roadburner--do you mind if I ask your age? I'm 62.5. As best as I can remember, I got it Christmas '63. As I'd mentioned, for some reason our A&P supermarket had it displayed on their overhead ledge shelfing. I was about 5 1/2.

63 going on 64. I remember those overhead ledges at A&P!