I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

Not car-related, but on my Dad's side of the family, both of his brothers did their time at the A&P, both being store managers. Both of them did it until retirement. By then, I think they had converted to SuperFresh, at least around these parts. And now, most of those have turned into empty storefronts, dollar stores, or wanna-be megachurches.

My Dad worked at an A&P as well. My Mom was working as a waitress at a Hot Shoppes in the same plaza, and that's how they met. That particular location is now a Giant Foods. The Hot Shoppes became a Bob's Big Boy, and then at some point in the 90's was turned into one of those trendy steak houses where they'd give you peanuts in the shell as an appetizer, and tell you to just throw the shells on the floor! That little feature didn't last long, though. Nowadays it's a Silver Diner.

Oh, I can make it somewhat car-related. When my Mom was in high school, waiting tables, she was able to save up 1/3 of the money to pay cash for a brand-new 1966 Catalina convertible, at the age of 17. She borrowed another third from her parents, and the other third from an aunt, whom she then paid back over time.

uplanderguy

I can always tell a building that was an A&P--red brick, and cupola/distinctive area over the front doors.

"Eight O'Clock" coffee (red bag) was their brand at the time. They also had coffee in yellow and black bags. I think the black bag was called "Bokar".

I can also spot old 'Red Barn' fast food joints around here. Supposedly their barn shape made them sturdy.

I'd never seen a 'Hot Shoppes' until our 1969 vacation to D.C. We stayed at the Bethesda Motor Inn ('lodge'?) and could walk to one. The colors were similar to Howard Johnson's back where we were from. I know I'd mentioned this before, but our motel was directly across the street from the largest Chevy dealer I'd ever seen, "Chevy Chase Chevrolet". The moon landing we watched from our motel room TV.

I remember a breakfast joint called "Stan's Tastee Diner" we used to walk to on that vacation too.

omarman

Looking at an old Christmas video with period commercials on YT and found this obscure collection of misfit toys from Detroit circa 1973. They say, "Drive what you like and like what you drive." But the video suggests that parking means "Don't stop until you hit something solid."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAU6WVjjxw
The nanny tech promoted today is still aimed at everything except better driving.

xwesx

Well said! The more things change... the more they stay the same!

andre1969

We had Red Barns around here, too. I think it was pretty much gone by the time I was a teenager, but I remember them as a little kid. One of my friends, who's older than me, said that there was one near College Park, MD they used to frequent. The lady manning the cash register was this big woman with a booming voice. He said they'd order something called a "Big Barney", and would get a kick out of hearing the woman bellow out "I NEED A BIG BARNEY UP HERE!" And then one of his friends would order the same thing and she'd holler "I NEED ANOTHER BIG BARNEY!"

I don't know why they thought it was funny, but at the time, they did.

andre1969

On that video of the '74 GM cars showing off their crash bumpers, I think it's pretty cool how the Cadillac's grille slides back in unison with the bumper. And the way the Olds grille sections are hinged on the top is kinda cool, too. I didn't realize they started working on little details like that way back in '74.

My '82 Cutlass Supreme had grille sections that were hinged like that. One day, I went to show one of my friends how cool it was that the designers thought of that...only to have it snap off when I pressed on it! Chrysler's R-bodies were hinged like that, as well, although by the time I started dealing with those cars, the little Cutlass fiasco taught me not to press my luck!

I can't remember if my grandmother's '85 LeSabre's grille was hinged, or not. I never bothered to press on it, but I have a feeling it might have been. I know my '80 Malibu's grille was not.

uplanderguy

I want to say the first time I saw a hinged grille was on the '73 Cutlass models.

sda

It was the 73 Olds Cutlass, 88, 98 that introduced the hinged grille. It helped minimize and blend in the 5mph bumpers better than most manufacturers did that year.

uplanderguy

Indeed they did blend it better than the others. I liked the '73 Chevelle generally in styling, and all the GM midsizes that year drove and handled quite well, but the Cutlass' bumper was by far the best of all of them.

GM's habit of substantial 'tumblehome' styling, combined with no or only a small rocker molding, seemed to result in stone chips along the bottom, but the way the Cutlass that year was styled at the sides seemed to result in more of that than even usual.

I always liked cars with wide rocker trim and no bodyside moldings higher up, for styling and stone-chip protection, anyway, if not for door-ding avoidance.

I could very much enjoy a '73 Cutlass S or even 442, with the swivel bucket seats in Olds' exclusive-that-year 'wet look' vinyl trim. Oddly, the bucket seat option in the Supreme was not swivel seats. I think the swivel design limited to some degree the ability to differentiate seat pattern inserts.

andre1969

I think the Cutlass's problem was those "skegs" or whatever they're called...that crease that comes off the front wheel opening and then kicks up in the door, and the other one that starts just ahead or the rear wheel. You basically have sheetmetal facing the ground, and that can't be good for resisting stone chips.

The Pontiac LeMans and Grand Prix had those "pontoons" or whatever you want to call them, but they seemed softer, more rounded, and weren't as extreme as the skegs on the Olds. Meanwhile Chevy and Buick limited their flamboyance to the upper parts of the body structure. The lower part was simply rounded off, but without any serious creases that were begging to get stone chips, catch mud and debris, etc.

sda

Yep, our 76 Cutlass wagon had those skegs and they immediately chipped. On the two door for 76 they did away with those for a much cleaner look, but the skegs remained on the 4 drs.

andre1969

tjc78

LMAO... funny thing that can be taken either way!

uplanderguy

That thing looks in great, authentic condition, but....my eyes!

One thing I appreciated (one of the few, LOL) about '78 to '80 Monte Carlos is that every single one came with 205-70 tires which seemed to fill the wheel openings--and F-41 suspension was standard. Those things were made optional on the '81. I hate the look of little tires and wheels in a large wheel opening. Another big culprit of that was the '77-79 full-size Chevy with the "F" tires.

Michaell

OK, that is funny.

andre1969

Oh, it gets better...


I'm sure something Celebrity related will pop up before too long

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

Another big culprit of that was the '77-79 full-size Chevy with the "F" tires.

I think GM, Ford, and Mopar were all guilty, in their own way, back then. When the Panthers came out for '79, I think they used a 205/75, but it was a 14" rim! The Mopar R-bodies had a 15" rim, but it was a 195/75! I want to say my grandmother's '85 LeSabre originally had 205/75/R15s, but at some point after she signed it over to me, went up a size, to 215/75/R15s.

I think my Mom's 86 Monte Carlo had 205/70/R14s, at least by the time she gave it to me. But I can't remember what it had when it was new.

uplanderguy

Yeah, now that you mention it, I do remember those '79 LTD's (Wait? What, no 'road-hugging weight?'!). I remember coupes with small-looking tires and wheels and single headlights. I could appreciate a later coupe, loaded up--what was the last year for the coupe?

andre1969

Looks like '87 was the last year for the Crown Vic coupe. It was down to 5527 units that year, and was offered as a base coupe, or upscale LX. Meanwhile, the sedan sold 105,789 and the wagons were good for 17,562.

Interestingly, Chevy dropped the Caprice that same year. For some reason, I was thinking that one or the other actually lasted a year or two longer. Anyway, the Crown Vic 2-door actually outsold the Caprice...it was only good for 3110 units. Other body styles were more popular though: 28,387 wagons and roughly 184,000 sedans.

It is interesting, to see just how quickly the coupe fell from favor. Even with downsizing, which in theory made them more practical than before, their popularity just seemed to decline. I wonder if it's because coupes tended to be sold more on style, and emotion, rather than practicality. And, as they became more practical, perhaps they seemed to lose some of their style, at least in the eyes of the buyers of the time.

For instance, the Monte Carlo and Grand Prix took a hit when they downsized, although the Regal actually saw a boost. I think the Cutlass Supreme coupe took a slight hit (and the Salon models took a pretty big hit), but was fairly resilient.

And, I would have thought the '78 Malibu coupe would have been a smash hit. But, in glancing over the sales totals, while the sedan and wagon saw an improvement in sales when they downsized, the coupe actually dropped, just a bit, compared to the '77 model. Chevy sold about 138,000 Malibu coupes in '77, but that shrunk a bit to around 117,000 for '78. It did rise to around 127,000 for '79, with the base coupe accounting for most of the rise. In '80, coupe sales crashed with the economy, totaling only around 66,000. For '81 it was even less, around 35,000, and then the coupe was dropped for '82.

The Celebrity, which really seemed more like a 2-door sedan than a coupe, only managed around 19,000 units for '82. The Celebrity 2-door peaked out in '84-86, moving about 29,000 examples each year, before trailing off again. So, even in the best of times, the Celebrity 2-door never sold as well as the Malibu had, even in its worst of times.

In the Celebrity's last year, 1988, it was good for around 11,000 2-doors. Now when the Lumina came out, the 2-door was a bit more popular for awhile, but by then the Lumina was sort of standing in for the Monte Carlo, and would even take on the Monte's name for '95. But it never got back to anywhere near the level that the Malibu, or the older Monte Carlos did, in their heyday.

uplanderguy

I think there was a year when they made a Celebrity wagon when they no longer made the sedan and coupe! Same with Malibu wagon some years earlier, if I'm remembering correctly.

EDIT: I was thinking they built Malibu wagons until the Celebrity wagon was ready for '84 (which I thought wasn't at the beginning of the model year), but I'm seeing no evidence of that online.

andre1969

Yeah, as far as I know, the Malibu wagon was discontinued at the end of '83, along with the sedan. And yep, sure enough, my old car book is showing the Celebrity being sold as a wagon-only for 1990. About 28,000 units.

uplanderguy

I thought the '83 Monte Carlo (and Malibu, by default), had some of the irritating things of the '81 and '82 improved-upon--mostly, making the 305 4-barrel the V8 and much-toned-down interior woodgraining.

sda

Didn’t the 81 restyle, which I like much better, correct the often missing chrome strips on the front and rear bumpers on the 78-80 Monte Carlos. It seemed even nicely kept 78-80 Monte Carlos would be missing one or more of those trim pieces.

andre1969

I'll confess that one potentially masochistic drivetrain combination I'm curious about is the 1984 Monte Carlo with the 229 V6 and 4-speed automatic. As far as I know, that was the only instance that GM ever used the 4-speed automatic with the 229...and I didn't even know of that one, until you pointed it out awhile ago, Uplander!

I doubt I'd ever want to own one, but I'd just be curious to see how it performed, compared to similar cars that I had in the past. My first car was a 1980 Malibu coupe with the 229 and 3-speed automatic. In '80, the 229 had 115 hp, but only 175 ft-lb of torque. Also, interestingly, according to automobile catalog, the 229 used the beefier THM350, rather than the lightweight THM200. The THM350 used a 2.52:1 first gear, versus 2.74 for the 200. And the axle ratio was a 2.41:1. That car actually didn't seem bad at the time when it came to acceleration, but I'm sure I wouldn't be a fan of it today.

My grandparents had an '82 Malibu Classic wagon with the 229. By that time power was cut slightly, to 110 hp and 170 ft-lb. It also used the THM350, presuming Automobile Catalogue is accurate. And the wagon body was a few hundred pounds heavier. But, it had a 2.73:1 axle, to help offset that added weight, I guess. I remember acceleration was one thing they absolutely HATED about that wagon. And those differences probably were enough to make it noticeably slower than my Mom's '80. That wagon was long gone by the time I hit driving age, so I never got to actually experience driving it, though.

The '84 Monte 229 still had 110 hp, but GM did something to it, to get the torque up to 190 ft-lb, so it was a little better. And with the quicker first gear of the THM200-R4, and its 2.73:1 axle, I wonder if it was at least tolerable? I'm sure it would still be miserable by today's standards, though. And, if I wanted one of those GM intermediates, I'd really be looking for one with a 305 or 307.

andre1969

sda said:

Didn’t the 81 restyle, which I like much better, correct the often missing chrome strips on the front and rear bumpers on the 78-80 Monte Carlos. It seemed even nicely kept 78-80 Monte Carlos would be missing one or more of those trim pieces.

Now that you mention it, I think it did. I had forgotten about that little "feature" of the '78-80 style, but now I'm definitely getting a mental image of those chrome strips peeling away.

uplanderguy

Our '80 never lost a strip on the bumper between April '80 and Dec. '83, but it seemed like a regular occurence on '78's and some '79's.

uplanderguy

I have never seen one 229 V6 Monte with the 4-speed automatic. Friends of mine had one with so many options it had a second window sticker, but even it had the 3-speed automatic. My parents' 305 4-barrel '84 had the three-speed automatic as well. I see from the brochure that the 4-speed automatic was first available in January '84; my parents' '84 was purchased Dec. '83.

uplanderguy

I did own an '82 Monte Carlo 229 with A/C. It would barely move with the A/C on. My '81 with 267 V8 and no A/C was more pleasant to drive, although it was hardly peppy. It idled smoothly and had a muffled V8 rumble, unlike the industrial-grade noises that came out of the V6's, LOL.

stickguy

Walking around a different neighborhood, a hunchback Accord Crosstour. And then about 5 houses up, another one. I guess whoever had it first recommended it to a friend.

tjc78

stickguy said:

Walking around a different neighborhood, a hunchback Accord Crosstour. And then about 5 houses up, another one. I guess whoever had it first recommended it to a friend.

I wonder where the third one they sold is.

fintail

Back when cars had colors! (I think this is from 1979):

ab348

Not just "cars", but Benzes! Today they are all silver, white, gray or black it seems.

fintail

Around here, go to any lot, and almost everything in stock will indeed be black, white, or silver . Grey even seems unusual sometimes.

Spotted today in the snow: early Corsica - appeared to be in good shape, in that maroon/burgundy color that probably made up 2/3 of production; Mercury Lynx - parked, I guess an 86 or so as it has a CHMSL, and I walked by that 69 Galaxie buttress style fastback, not many of these around anymore:

andre1969

Considering that pic probably was around 1979, I'm impressed that most of those colors are fairly restrained. There's still good variety, but none of them are what I'd call garish. I'd say my least favorite is that somewhat peach/fleshy color, but even that, I could probably deal with.

I think my favorite of the colors is the dark green.

uplanderguy

That '69 Galaxie 500 certainly looks all there....and in white, no rust would be hiding, at least outside. I haven't seen one that original-looking around where I'm from, in decades.

Similarly, my '66 Studebaker was sold new in Grand Junction, Colorado. Now I know they must get snow there, but they sure must not use salt. I know where to look, and everywhere I do mine is rust-free.

I'm ranting about "choice" back then again, but Ford and Chevy both, in their best-selling standard-size models, offered these body styles: Four-door sedan, two-door hardtop in fastback roof, two-door hardtop in formal roof, four-door hardtop, convertible, and station wagons in either six-or-eight-passenger styles. And I won't even mention colors available, outside and in.

uplanderguy

One of the old-car Facebook sites I follow is "Rotting Musclecars and Old Tin"--don't ask me why since I'm not into musclecars--but today, someone whose name I don't recognize at all, posted this 1960 ad from my small hometown Chevy dealer. I'll take two of everything at those prices! My grandfather and Dad bought all their cars there, and I bought my first two new cars there, even though I lived an hour-and-a-half away. The dealership was owned by the Dart family for 55 years and it was a good place to do business. Population of town in the 1960 census was 8,765. Half-ton pickup cheaper than a Corvair; sealed bids on '54 Chevy and '57 Ford wagon:

texases

So 'OK used cars' was the CPO of the day?

kyfdx

texases said:

So 'OK used cars' was the CPO of the day?

That's just how Chevy dealers designated their used cars.

uplanderguy

'OK' was their better used cars; the ones in the row way out back had a sticker with a label that said "Good Value Used Cars", although I don't see that particular designation in the 1960 ad.

The ad shows they were pleased to sell 29 new and 49 used cars in the month of May, 1960. That isn't bad for a small town.

fintail

Seems like the kind of old car where the hubcaps might be in the trunk. I suspect an enthusiast car given the Panther behind it.

No salt here either - just de-icer solution, and sand. Been a marginal winter so far - we get snow, but not too cold, so it slowly melts, then returns a week or two later,

You can still get a MB E-class as a sedan, coupe (hardtop!), convertible, and wagon, with powertrain choices (several in Europe), and many color choices, although for USDM dealer-ordered cars you're likely to get black, silver, or white, with black interiors.

uplanderguy said:

That '69 Galaxie 500 certainly looks all there....and in white, no rust would be hiding, at least outside. I haven't seen one that original-looking around where I'm from, in decades.

Similarly, my '66 Studebaker was sold new in Grand Junction, Colorado. Now I know they must get snow there, but they sure must not use salt. I know where to look, and everywhere I do mine is rust-free.

I'm ranting about "choice" back then again, but Ford and Chevy both, in their best-selling standard-size models, offered these body styles: Four-door sedan, two-door hardtop in fastback roof, two-door hardtop in formal roof, four-door hardtop, convertible, and station wagons in either six-or-eight-passenger styles. And I won't even mention colors available, outside and in.

fintail

New truck seems like a deal, but of course they could be really basic. The era when trucks were meant to be used as tools instead of by tools

uplanderguy said:

'OK' was their better used cars; the ones in the row way out back had a sticker with a label that said "Good Value Used Cars", although I don't see that particular designation in the 1960 ad.

The ad shows they were pleased to sell 29 new and 49 used cars in the month of May, 1960. That isn't bad for a small town.

stickguy

When they list door armrest and recirculating heat you know it’s not a Denali.

ab348

Quite the unusual listing here on Bat:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1977-pontiac-grand-prix-5/

The color combo is a trip, and it is showing 177 miles which is apparently correct as the stickers are still on the side windows. Unfortunately whoever ordered it forget to specify the upgraded engine, so it has the unfortunate Pontiac 301.

sda

That's one of the worst color combos ever. Nice car overall but that 301 is a stinker.

fintail

Cool interior, not sure if I've ever seen one in person with t-tops.

stickguy

If it never actually drives, it doesn’t even need an engine so who cares which one it has?

I like yellow paint and red interiors. But wouldn’t consider getting them on the same car.

explorerx4

A nice way of saying unsaleable since 1977.

xwesx

ab348 said:

Quite the unusual listing here on Bat:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1977-pontiac-grand-prix-5/

The color combo is a trip, and it is showing 177 miles which is apparently correct as the stickers are still on the side windows. Unfortunately whoever ordered it forget to specify the upgraded engine, so it has the unfortunate Pontiac 301.

Well, that explains how it only managed to accumulate 177 miles!

uplanderguy

That combo is awful.

Best '70's instrument panel in the industry IMHO, but I wish they didn't add the flimsy Monte Carlo door pull straps in '75 or so. Not a fan of the diamond-pattern in the seating which they also used on the Grand Ville.

But the car is....interesting!

fintail

Here's a time warp, probably been 25 years since I've seen one so clean

Too bad about the gouge on the dash, maybe can be repaired. Window sticker has an ADM - the more things change.