I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

JardenJoe

Not certain if this is the right place here, but I spotted this today and I don't have a clue to what it is. Looks similar to a 60's Jaguar, but likely not. Any clues? Help is appreciated. Thanks.

kyfdx

JardenJoe said:

Not certain if this is the right place here, but I spotted this today and I don't have a clue to what it is. Looks similar to a 60's Jaguar, but likely not. Any clues? Help is appreciated. Thanks.

I think it's a rear engine car, though I do see the Jag vibe. Definitely not a Jag

explorerx4

Renault Dauphine.
Here is a link to an article about that model.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1956-67-renault-dauphine

JardenJoe

explorerx4 said:

Renault Dauphine.
Here is a link to an article about that model.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1956-67-renault-dauphine

Very awesome! Thanks!
It's sitting at my daughter's in-laws in Florida. @64 yrs and being a car buff all my life, it bothered me I had no clue! lol
Thank you very much.

uplanderguy

I'm surprised Ford still was using vacuum wipers in '60. Even usually late-to-the-party Studebaker had electric wipers, even in pickups, a few years earlier. I think Rambler used vacuum wipers until '69 or something on some models! I do remember our '62 Ford Fairlane still had a manual choke.

The blue '60 Starliner is gorgeous IMHO. I wish they'd have made the Starliner in '62. Somewhere, sometime, I've seen a period pic of a '62 Galaxie 500 two-door with a removable top that resembled the Starliner roof.

I liked on '61 Fords, how the bright molding at the top of the body sides doubled as the grab portion of the door handle.

uplanderguy

I went out to the storage space to check on my Stude for the first time since Oct., and that green '75 Monza 2+2 V8 4-speed ("4.3LITER") is still there. In all honesty it's a parts car IMHO, but as I've said, I loved them when new, and waited months for our dealer to get one in as I believe it was a not-smooth launch. The '75's are fairly rare as they were pretty expensive. In '76 some decontenting took place and prices were lowered and sales seemed to go up; at least I saw a lot more in our town. I still like the looks of the '75 best and two of my good friends had them new so they were a sizeable part of my fun teen years.

Every one of these '75's was built in Ste. Therese, Quebec.

This one just slaps me in the face with 'faded glory' or whatever; I bet it's been 30 years since I've seen another '75 around here. The '75 was supposed to be a rotary to the center hump is high--real high. The 4-speed shifter is barely visible in the one pic today.

I know I'm largely alone in liking these, but I almost want to tip my hat in front of it and say "RIP", LOL..

stickguy

I love that Monza.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I'm surprised Ford still was using vacuum wipers in '60. Even usually late-to-the-party Studebaker had electric wipers, even in pickups, a few years earlier. I think Rambler used vacuum wipers until '69 or something on some models! I do remember our '62 Ford Fairlane still had a manual choke.

They were slow to change on a number of things. This exposed shift rod always drove me crazy. I don't think it changed until the mid-60s.

uplanderguy

They were slow to change on a number of things. This exposed shift rod always drove me crazy. I don't think it changed until the mid-60s.

Yes! I'm taking a guess here, but I'm thinking '63 was the first year that had gone away. I also remember how '67 GM cars had the energy-absorbing steering column, and Ford's way was instead of that, putting that very big round, padded steering wheel center on the cars.

uplanderguy

You can't see it in the pic, but the bottom of the right front fender on that Monza had a hole big enough I bet I could put both my fists in there.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

Yes! I'm taking a guess here, but I'm thinking '63 was the first year that had gone away. I also remember how '67 GM cars had the energy-absorbing steering column, and Ford's way was instead of that, putting that very big round, padded steering wheel center on the cars.

1964 on the shift rod I believe. And the flowerpot steering wheel hub was just bizarre. It's not like they were surprised by it at the last minute.

imidazol97

imidazol97 said:

fintail said:

Options and standard features are funny. My dad's 60 had the big engine, factory radio, but vacuum wipers, no reverse lights, dog dish hubcaps. I don't think MBs had hazards until they were mandated - maybe for 1968. Fintail certainly doesn't have them - when going on a club drive with a friend who has a 240D, he wanted me to follow behind him on a mountain pass, with my hazards on - I laughed and told him my car isn't that new (and even the fintail is like a V8 car compared to a 4cyl diesel).

I can't find anything to verify this, but I believe the wipers were vacuum supplemented by the fuel pump which contained an accessory pump to keep vacuum present when the engine intake manifold vacuum dropped. So there was an effort at keeping the wipers going during acceleration.

That may have been the 1957 Ford 292 cu in that had the vacuum assist in the fuel pump.
I can't tell from rockauto.com options what wiper motor the 1960 Ford had. I think I'm
having a Joe moment because I can't remember these things.

fintail

I like the 1994 graduation tassel in that Monza, even the that was an older unusual car. I remember the exposed shift rod in the 60 as well, definitely gone by 66.

Electric must have been optional in 60, but the wagon definitely had vacuum, I remember when my dad would drive it in the misty PNW rain, he would put it on a very slow setting, which was fun to watch.

While out in the fintail saw a 63 Fairlane 2 door sedan, a house with a few Checkers parked nearby, BMW E21, couple of MB W124s, 49-51 Chevy 4 door fastback, 2nd gen Accord sedan.

andre1969

I like that dark green on the Monza. I'm also a bit impressed with the dash padding...it actually looks high quality, almost leathery.

uplanderguy

I remember from last time, that other tassel was from '72 or '74. Maybe it had been Dad's car, who knows.

uplanderguy

Both my friends' '75 Monza 2+2's, V8, auto, PS, PB, whitewalls, and some incidental small options, stickered in the $4,800's. Neither had the aluminum wheels this one does. I bet this one was right there too. I remember 4-door '75 Impalas at our hometown dealer, without A/C, that stickered for $4,800-odd. So they were an expensive small car.

stickguy

out driving this weekend. A guy in my neighborhood has a 70-72 vintage El Camino. Decent, original shape (a bit of rust and wear, but overall OK looking) and he drove past my house today.

and yesterday, in a local "fancy" town, a gorgeous orange Porsche 914. Later bumper car. Drove through town. Shortly after, a later MB SL (did not see the number) that also, from a distance, looked new. that one was silver.

omarman

I don't know if it was a specific reference to the Monza introduction or not but C&D made an observation around that time which summed up Detroit compact cars as examples of paying more and getting less.

uplanderguy

The Monza was marketed as a premium small car, with most of the deluxe stuff standard and the first Chevy of that size that could be had with a V8. Still, that was pretty darn expensive. Not as much as a Cosworth Vega though, but as much as I liked the Monzas, I'd take a Cosworth today over it all day long. More creative engineering IMHO and more hand work, as Cosworths were on their own line.

tifighter

Here's something you don't see everyday-

Remember the Rally Fighter?

uplanderguy

Can't say I do!

explorerx4

From Top Gear!

omarman

I always liked the Vega body style and for a while the Cosworth version looked like it would be worth the money. Until the actual production model finally came to market. By then I would have rather had a Capri II V6.

But we never did get the fun go-fast versions from Europe like the RS3100. The Ford Motorsport Capri Group 2 Cosworth GAA V6 versions built for the '74 season are still highly prized. And very loud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJBcm0JZNTg

andre1969

Even as a kid, those German Capris tended to catch my eye. Small cars usually don't do that for me, but there was something about it that seemed a bit exotic, sleek, and sexy. Whenever I conjure up an image of one in my mind, I always picture it in sort of a burnt-orange/copper color. Seems like just about every single one was that hue back in the day.

kyfdx

When I was 18, I worked at the airport parking lots, and one of the skycaps drove a Capri, with an extensive body kit, with exposed bolt-on fenders. It looked like something the factory would have done for their race cars, I thought it was amazing. That one was yellow.

I was also impressed that a skycap could pay $3/day for parking in 1977, rather than take the bus from the employee lot. They really raked in the tips, back then.

ab348

Oddly enough, when I think of a Gen II Capri, it is always a black car. Seemed like that was what we got mostly.

stickguy

The black and gold model? John Player special or the “black cat” version .

Gen 1 capris always seemed to be brown.

explorerx4

I had a Gen II Capri winter beater that was yellow. 2.3 with a 4 speed. Kind of a tank.

uplanderguy

The black with gold scheme, in my memory at least, started with the Cosworth Vega and was followed at GM by the "Bandit" Trans-Am. I do remember Capri II's in that scheme now that you mentioned it.

EDIT: I saw '76 magazine ads for the black and gold Capri, which looks like it included gold-colored seat inserts as well.

fintail

Now and then a gen I Capri pops up in this area, been decades since I've seen a gen II in the wild.

uplanderguy

I seem to remember the first Capris advertised in magazine ads at $2,395.

andre1969

By "Gen II" y'all mean the Fox-based ones, that look like a Mustang with a tougher front-end, and a bubble hatch, right? I saw one of those at a car show in Carlisle PA last year. Most likely either the Ford Nationals, or the Fall swap meet. I can't remember the last time I saw one out in the wild, though.

To be fair, it's been ages since I've seen the German one in the wild, either though. I did get a pic of one, awhile back...



January 4, 2015. And no, my memory's not THAT good...that's just what it says in the info for the pic

That Sidekick that's parked next to it just made me think...it's been awhile since I've seen one of those, too.

stickguy

That’s a gen 1 German. The gen II was also German. We got it as the Capri II in about 1975. With the hatchback.

fintail

That's a gen I. The orangey copper one you posted above is a Gen II - longer looking, updated front end. The Fox ones are Mercury, so compared to the German cars, a brother from another mother at most Back in the early 90s a neighbor had one, I think it was a V8 as I recall it being loud.

andre1969 said:

By "Gen II" y'all mean the Fox-based ones, that look like a Mustang with a tougher front-end, and a bubble hatch, right? I saw one of those at a car show in Carlisle PA last year. Most likely either the Ford Nationals, or the Fall swap meet. I can't remember the last time I saw one out in the wild, though.

To be fair, it's been ages since I've seen the German one in the wild, either though. I did get a pic of one, awhile back...

That Sidekick that's parked next to it just made me think...it's been awhile since I've seen one of those, too.

sda

andre1969 said:

Even as a kid, those German Capris tended to catch my eye. Small cars usually don't do that for me, but there was something about it that seemed a bit exotic, sleek, and sexy. Whenever I conjure up an image of one in my mind, I always picture it in sort of a burnt-orange/copper color. Seems like just about every single one was that hue back in the day.

I liked the Ghia trim of this model. Sunroof, 4sp V6, ac.

ab348

andre1969 said:

By "Gen II" y'all mean the Fox-based ones, that look like a Mustang with a tougher front-end, and a bubble hatch, right?

No, I was talking about the 2nd gen of "The Sexy European" one like the orangey one pictured above.

andre1969

Gotcha...thanks guys. I guess I mentally sort of lumped the German ones all in together. And, to make it more confusing, Wikipedia (I know, they're not the Gospel when it comes to car related things) calls the German model the first generation, the American Fox model the second generation, and the little Australian convertible the third generation!

tjc78

Not sure if this will work here... but one for @fintail

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeSgbqWD/

stickguy

Some long model runs there.

fintail

Fun, I hadn't seen that updated to include W223.

Notice long model runs in the past, and overlapping model runs, also, start and end dates are Euro-based.

tjc78 said:

Not sure if this will work here... but one for @fintail

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeSgbqWD/

fintail

Local spots - facelift 1st gen Tempo sedan (86-87), Ford Festiva, and there's a BMW E32 a few blocks away that appears decrepit, but seems to move around a bit, so it is still on the road. It's beautiful silvery blue, would have been a real looker in the day.

uplanderguy

A friend sent me an article from the latest AACA magazine about a one (woman)-owned '73 Monte Carlo, which got me thinking. I know the bandwagon writing at the time, and after, called the styling 'baroque', but when it came out, I was way-impressed. Subjective of course, but I still think the exterior (that's exterior) styling was the best of the four cars GM made like it. The wheelbase was four inches longer than the Cutlass Supreme and Regal, which was wasted space really, all in the hood area, but may have added to ride quality. The interior was the weakest by far of all four IMHO though.

The AACA article quoted from R&T's review of the car in '73, stating "...transient behavior and on-the-road cornering are much better than its GM rivals. The Monte Carlo will hold its own with a BMW Bavaria or Jaguar XJ6". I'm sure that's not conventional wisdom, then or now.

I always liked, but thought it was funny, that from '73 through '80, Monte Carlos, even the plainest ones, came with the bigger tires and wheels and stiffer suspension pieces standard.

Here's a 'Green Gold' '73--funny, I hated the color then but like it now--but with a strange contrasting brown vinyl top and green interior. I liked '73's green interiors as they were no longer pea green, but with Green Gold exterior that might've actually looked better. I like the standard bumper-to-bumper wide rocker trim.





One small interior detail I liked then was the small door map pockets, almost concealed, in the diagonal area of the upper door panel. The '73 Chevelle Laguna had these too.

I was never crazy about the Grand Prix's styling from the rear window back, but one apparent thing Chevy cheaped out on, was that the back window had a noticeable seam running down the middle of it. The others didn't (at least some I've looked at).

A friend's parents had a '74 Monte Carlo Landau and I do remember it being super-quiet and more fun to drive than our '74 Impala, but as I'd mentioned previously, the bench seat back was reclined in a not-natural position. The '73's detail styling was better and lacked the 5 mph rear bumper, but the '74 instrument panel had the '73's black cluster color-keyed, with a bright bead around it....a nice improvement although a far cry from the stunning Grand Prix instrument panel.

sda

I didn’t realize the wheel base on the Monte was longer than the Cutlass and Regal. Did the Grand Prix share the same wheel base as the Monte Carlo?

uplanderguy

I believe the Grand Prix had the (longer) 116 inch wheelbase, identical to the Monte Carlo, but I'll check the brochure to confirm.

EDIT: Yep, 116.

kyfdx

A friend's older sister had a '73, as well. We thought the swivel seats were very cool.

ab348

I remember reading an article about John DeLorean who, you may recall, was General Manager of Chevrolet division in the early '70s before moving to corporate GM and departing not long after. It said that he was responsible for insisting that the '73-up Monte Carlo come with the upgraded suspension to let it handle comparably to European cars. I'm surprised the bean counters at GM let that continue after he departed.

explorerx4

Whomever ordered that Monte Carlo was colorblind.
It's in great shape though.

andre1969

I like the interior green of that '73 Monte, but it clashes horribly with the exterior. Oddly though, the carpeting does match the exterior paint! For the most part, the '73-77 Monte was a bit too "baroque" for my tastes...I think in any given year, I would have opted for a Chevelle/Malibu over it. But, I always liked the rear of the '73 Monte. The rear bumper was big, but well-integrated. And I thought the slightly recessed taillights, plus the trim that extended under the lip of the trunk to connect the taillights, made it look a bit more exotic and expensive than it really was.

It's also interesting that GM could add four inches in wheelbase to these cars ahead of the cowl, but to my eye, its barely noticeable. For instance, at a quick glance, I don't think a Grand Prix or Monte Carlo really looks any longer than a Chevelle, LeMans, Cutlass coupe, or Century/Regal coupe. Now I notice the added wheelbase on the sedans and wagons, where they actually added it to the passenger cabin area, so that, say, a 4-door Chevelle looks noticeably bigger to me than a coupe.

One car from that era that I'm starting to appreciate more, is the '73-75 Century and Regal coupe. It's a bit on the flamboyant side, with the sharp creases coming off the fender and through the door, but overall seems a bit toned down compared to the Monte Carlo.

roadburner

When I bought my 1974 Monte Carlo I had to choose between a 454 with bench seats or a 350 2V with a floor shift and swivel buckets. I went with the 350, deciding I'd rather modify the motor to make it faster rather than live with the stigma of a bench seat and column shift.

uplanderguy

Funny to remember the autonomy of the divisions then. Neither Pontiac nor Buick used the swivel seats. Olds used them on the Cutlass S, but not the Supreme. I have no experience with them, but I do remember thinking it was a little odd they were basically a one-piece seat. There was no folding that seat in any way, shape, or form. The big benefit seemed to be rear-seat access.