I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

imidazol97

@andre1969
I have always seen that as a beautiful design. Great colors for the car, and Desoto
in that time had several combinations that attracted my eye.
That car would have a place in my garage of classics.

The tailfins were a trend of the era. I like the Desoto's application.
The dagmars on the front bumper recalled the strength and prestige
of the Cadillac's dagmars of the 50s.

andre1969

imidazol97 said:

The dagmars on the front bumper recalled the strength and prestige
of the Cadillac's dagmars of the 50s.

I think that might have been a part of the front license plate bracket. If you got a DeSoto from a state that didn't require a front plate, I don't think you got them. At least, that's what I was told years ago, and also that they're almost impossible to find these days. Mine came from PA, which does not require a front plate. When I first had the car, my uncle rigged up something for me, but it looked pretty bad, so I eventually took it off. So, I was technically driving the car illegally, in Maryland, for awhile.

When my DeSoto was at the mechanic's all those years, he was able to rig up something that looked a little bit better.

For '58, I think the license plate bracket mount was a simpler design, just sort of stuck on. And the "dagmars", mounted low, were most likely a stand-alone option. Here's a '58 Firedome with them...

sda

andre1969 said:

Pretty cool...a '57 Fireflite 4-door hardtop. I've often heard that body style described as the deft combination of all the problems of a convertible, with the resale value of a 4-door sedan. I always thought they were pretty cool, though. Here's a close shot someone took of it...

I believe I took that shot or one very similar. Sharp car. That was at the Henry Ford museum. They have a neat mock up of what a typical hotel room at the Holiday Inn was like in the late 50's early 60s just behind that wall. The Henry Ford museum is a must see if you are in the Detroit area.

uplanderguy

I was last at the Henry Ford probably twenty years ago; very cool indeed. And if you're there, you may as well go just north of Kalamazoo and see the Gilmore museum, which absolutely blew me away when I when there about 1 1/2 years ago for the first time. And Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg in Auburn, IN, not real far, is stunning. Studebaker National Museum in South Bend does me proud. There used to be a Hudson museum in Amish town Shipshewana, IN too, but it's gone. That's a fertile area for wonderful car museums. I've heard there's a nice smallish Hudson museum in Ypsilanti too, but I've never been there.

sda

The Packard proving grounds near Detroit is also worth a visit.

fintail

TPiR, Christmas 1979. First, a familiar looking Phoenix. This one had a number of listed options, "new function, new flair", MSRP $5845:



Then a Spirit looking pretty good on those wheels, several options, MSRP $5164:



And in the showcase, a 3 car special. First a basic looking (no options mentioned) Pinto:



Then a Fairmont Futura, described as being a 4cyl/4-speed, only options listed whitewalls and CA emissions:



Topped off with a decently equipped Thunderbird, which would have been a leftover then (but I'd prefer it to an 80):

fintail

I recall that display at the Henry Ford too - definitely a must-see, easy way to spend a day (also did a factory tour which was an F-series line):

sda said:

I believe I took that shot or one very similar. Sharp car. That was at the Henry Ford museum. They have a neat mock up of what a typical hotel room at the Holiday Inn was like in the late 50's early 60s just behind that wall. The Henry Ford museum is a must see if you are in the Detroit area.

andre1969

I think that Phoenix is the same shade my 1980 Malibu was. It's similar to that '78 Malibu with the white interior that was posted earlier from TPIR, but a bit darker.

Out of that batch, I'd take the T-bird!

explorerx4

I've been the Henry Ford a few times, but not recently.
Also enjoyed Greenfield Village which as several houses from CT.

fintail

Saw a few on the road today - Fairmont wagon, 70s Datsun king cab pickup, 00s retro Bird (I guess they all survived), pristine 90s Lexus SC, ~60 Chevy pickup, and this, refreshing to see it not as a lowrider or resto-rod:

uplanderguy

Still looks original/authentic at least. 327 by the flags on the 'vee' on the front fender. A lot of people think that's just the ultimate year Impala, but I almost can't imagine seeing a dealer lot with '65's next to leftover '64's by them. So totally different.

Although I of course realize the '65 styling was locked in before this, in my mind it almost seems to me that the JFK assassination, followed by the arrival of the Beatles, personally for me coupled with Studebaker shutting down U.S. assembly operations, add in the Mustang's introduction, makes it seem like anything, even clothing and hair styles and music, up to and before spring '64 is a holdover from the fifties, culturally, and everything after that is when the sixties really seemed to start.

uplanderguy

Drove a round-trip 278 miles to central Columbus to get my second Covid shot yesterday and saw a mongrel white '67 Impala Sport Sedan on 71N there.

sda

uplanderguy said:

Still looks original/authentic at least. 327 by the flags on the 'vee' on the front fender. A lot of people think that's just the ultimate year Impala, but I almost can't imagine seeing a dealer lot with '65's next to leftover '64's by them. So totally different.

Although I of course realize the '65 styling was locked in before this, in my mind it almost seems to me that the JFK assassination, followed by the arrival of the Beatles, personally for me coupled with Studebaker shutting down U.S. assembly operations, add in the Mustang's introduction, makes it seem like anything, even clothing and hair styles and music, up to and before spring '64 is a holdover from the fifties, culturally, and everything after that is when the sixties really seemed to start.

IIRC the 64 was the last of the X frame. I like the 65 better as well. Just make sure it has the chain holding the engine down at the potentially faulty engine mount which required a massive recall.

sda

The Pinto in white with the painted black bumpers really looks cheap. How much did Ford save by not putting bright bumpers on it? It looks awful.

kyfdx

uplanderguy said:

Drove a round-trip 278 miles to central Columbus to get my second Covid shot yesterday and saw a mongrel white '67 Impala Sport Sedan on 71N there.

Holy Cow! All the way to Columbus for a vaccine? Yikes!

uplanderguy

Yeah, I could get in much quicker there than in my area.

I think most any '65-69 Chevy V8 has had the motor mount chain fix by now. Biggest recall in history at the time.

andre1969

I think 1965, in general, seems like a night and day cutoff between finally putting the 50's to bed, and finally bringing American cars kicking and screaming into the 60's, proper. And in many ways, those '64 cars WERE still 50's leftovers. A '64 Chevy was really just a heavily modified '59, for all intents and purposes. And while the body of the '58 is different, I don't know if the X-frame for '59 was all-new or not. A 1964 Ford uses a 1957 frame. And the unitized Mopars, while they came out for 1960, still share some of their structure with the '57-59's. The mechanic that worked on my DeSoto said that for '60, while the unitized bodies were all new, the sub-frames that go underneath the front and the back were just the '57-59 frame, with the center section cut out and the end pieces welded to the body, rather than bolted.

I know we've had this discussion before, but I think if I was a new car buyer for '65, it would be tough to decide. In retrospect, looking back at them through today's eyes, I think a '65 Pontiac in general would be my favorite. But, if I was back in that time, and was choosing between a new Impala, Galaxie, or Fury for example, I think it would be a hard choice.

uplanderguy

I've mentioned that my sister's boyfriend's parents (later her in-laws) had a maroon '65 Grand Prix, plum-colored vinyl interior, black vinyl top. We had a '67 Chevelle 300 Deluxe at the time. I was mesmerized with that Pontiac's interior. That would probably be my absolute '65 pick now, maybe after a loaded Stude Cruiser (me being weird I know), but so many good choices that year.

I think Chryslers never looked better. I'd take a 300-L.

I just got the latest HCC in the mail. A guy there has a '65 Newport 2-door hardtop. The sills are painted silver and it has wheel opening moldings, which in my admittedly-not-Mopar-mind was only on New Yorkers and possibly 300's. Stuff like that drives me nuts, LOL. One reason I want an old car is to show and enjoy how the manufacturer built it. I totally understand modern upgrades underneath for safety/reliability though.

uplanderguy

Deleted--we'd talked about this before, LOL.

fintail

When I was a kid, I had a thing for the 64 Impala hardtop, I even had a model kit, which I built to my spec (light-medium blue with blue interior). It didn't look like a last breath facelift of an aging design as I see it now, but I still think it looks OK - I always liked the SS trim, too. That reminds me of car shopping with my dad in 1992-93, we looked at a patina driver quality 63 SS 327/manual, they wanted $4500 for it, my dad said it was overpriced. I also like the 65-66 - all of these cars were not hard to find in the early 90s PNW, I recall several even in the smallish town where I lived.

All of that is back to a familiar discussion, the biggest change year over year. The quantum leaps for most brands were 54 to 55, and 64 to 65.

uplanderguy said:

Still looks original/authentic at least. 327 by the flags on the 'vee' on the front fender. A lot of people think that's just the ultimate year Impala, but I almost can't imagine seeing a dealer lot with '65's next to leftover '64's by them. So totally different.

Although I of course realize the '65 styling was locked in before this, in my mind it almost seems to me that the JFK assassination, followed by the arrival of the Beatles, personally for me coupled with Studebaker shutting down U.S. assembly operations, add in the Mustang's introduction, makes it seem like anything, even clothing and hair styles and music, up to and before spring '64 is a holdover from the fifties, culturally, and everything after that is when the sixties really seemed to start.

andre1969

I think, for its time, the '64 Impala seemed completely up to date, style wise. My guess is that its biggest shortcoming was that if you wanted a 3-speed automatic, you had to move up to a big block V8. Mopar had retired their 2-speed automatics by then, and I think Ford had, as well.

But then, Chevy had an advantage, in offering some fairly hot setups for the smallblock, like the 250 and 300 hp versions of the 327. In contrast, with Mopar, you topped out with 230 hp from a 318-2bbl. In the big Fords, I think you had the choice of a 195 hp 289, or a 250 hp 352 which was, for lack of a better word, a "medium" block? In general, Ford and Mopar tried to push you into big-block engines, if you wanted more serious power.

One thing that I think is interesting about the '65 redesign of GM's big cars, is that the Chevies seem like a big leap forward, style wise, but for some reason, with the Pontiac/Olds/Buick, and even Cadillacs, the advancement seems a bit more evolutionary. I mean, they still seem "new", compared to the cars they replaced, but not nearly as much as the Chevy. Maybe it's because the other cars still kept some of that long, linear look, whereas the "Coke bottle" look on the Chevy was more prominent, and more "hippy"?

uplanderguy

The '64 Impala couldn't be had with a 3-speed automatic, no matter which engine you got. Chevy was totally behind in that. The Corvette still had a Powerglide in '64, and couldn't be had with disc brakes.

Per the '65 full-size Chevrolet brochure, Turbo-Hydramatic was new that year and only available in one engine, the 325 hp 396.

uplanderguy

RE.: '65 GM's--MHO only, but Chevy and Pontiac had the best exterior styling. Pontiac had best interiors, particularly in the Grand Prix and Bonneville lines. Buick had that big thing on the front fenders for trim, and you know me about stuff like that. The Olds is pretty but a tad weird instrument panel IMO. I'd take any of them over the '64 I think. I have always liked the '65 Cadillacs, particularly an Eldorado convertible, but it never took long for that free-standing cornering light to start drooping. It's almost like they knew that quickly as for '66 it was built into the fender. I like the '65 styling a bit better though. But a '66 Fleetwood Brougham interior--I don't think Caddy had ever done better before or after (well, maybe the all-leather '74 Talisman seating).

imidazol97

kyfdx said:

uplanderguy said:

Drove a round-trip 278 miles to central Columbus to get my second Covid shot yesterday and saw a mongrel white '67 Impala Sport Sedan on 71N there.

Holy Cow! All the way to Columbus for a vaccine? Yikes!

We went a very short distance to a smaller drugstore chain for my wife's vaccinations.
. I went to downtown Dayton and braved the big city problems to go to the convention center for my own, about 10 miles?

imidazol97

Did the 64 Chevrolet with a 283 cu in engine get a flag on the front fender?

Michaell

imidazol97 said:

kyfdx said:

uplanderguy said:

Drove a round-trip 278 miles to central Columbus to get my second Covid shot yesterday and saw a mongrel white '67 Impala Sport Sedan on 71N there.

Holy Cow! All the way to Columbus for a vaccine? Yikes!

We went a very short distance to a smaller drugstore chain for my wife's vacinnations. I went to downtown Dayton and braved the big city problems to go to the convention center for my own, about 10 miles?

Funny, we're heading about 30-40 minutes away from Denver to get our vaccinations.

andre1969

imidazol97 said:

Did the 64 Chevrolet with a 283 cu in engine get a flag on the front fender?

For some reason, I'm thinking the 283 did get a fender flag. However, all the other V8s had the displacement listed, but not the 283? And I think even the 6-cyl got its own flag.

At least, I remember my Dad saying that as a joke, he put 6-cyl flags on his '63 Impala SS, which had a 409.

uplanderguy

In '64, I'm about certain ('about') that the 283 didn't get flags, just the tiny 'vee' with the red, white, and blue thing in the center. In '65, all the V8's got the numbers, and the flags, even the 283, with the numbers above the 'vee'.

A person wrote on a Chevy site very certainly about the above, but also said the '64 Biscayne and Bel Air had their 'vees' in different places on the body than the Impala. Absolutely not so; that was the '63 only and any number of pics online will show that.

The '63 cars that were sixes got a "6" emblem on the front fenders. The '64's and later did not.

There's a light metallic green with white painted top, '64 Impala Sport Sedan that shows up at local cruises here. When I first saw it, I thought, "No V8 emblem; probably left off during restoration". Looked under the hood and it was a six, and was a very low mileage car at that (high 20's). Unusual to see a six in a four-door hardtop.

sda

At least in 65 Olds dumped the clunky shifting Slim Jim 3sp Hydramatic, replaced for the most part with the superior Turbo-hydramatic. On lesser full size Olds did offer the 2sp Jetaway automatic, which in my mind was still better than the Slim Jim.

omarman

uplanderguy said:

In '64, I'm about certain ('about') that the 283 didn't get flags, just the tiny 'vee' with the red, white, and blue thing in the center. In '65, all the V8's got the numbers, and the flags, even the 283, with the numbers above the 'vee'.

A person wrote on a Chevy site very certainly about the above, but also said the '64 Biscayne and Bel Air had their 'vees' in different places on the body than the Impala. Absolutely not so; that was the '63 only and any number of pics online will show that.

The '63 cars that were sixes got a "6" emblem on the front fenders. The '64's and later did not.

There's a light metallic green with white painted top, '64 Impala Sport Sedan that shows up at local cruises here. When I first saw it, I thought, "No V8 emblem; probably left off during restoration". Looked under the hood and it was a six, and was a very low mileage car at that (high 20's). Unusual to see a six in a four-door hardtop.

The dad of a friend in HS had a green/white top '65 Impala station wagon with 6 cylinder and powerglide. It was his daily driver for work. And even took the family to King's Island and back one summer with that truckster. Over 100K miles by that time.

kyfdx

I had a friend with a '65 Impala V-8 with some go-fast modifications, but still had a PowerGlide transmission. This was around '77.

uplanderguy

I love the one-year-only '65 Chevy color called Evening Orchid (Iris Mist at Pontiac). I can't say I recall Olds or Buick having it. Pair it with white interior, and it was gorgeous IMHO. I even love it on the Corvair that year.

fintail

Spotted an oddity today - 63-64 New Yorker wagon, in that light beige that seems common on 63-64 Chryslers. It looked a little neglected, but not beyond redemption. Also saw a Rabbit pickup and a 57 Coupe DeVille in similar "patina"condition to the wagon.

uplanderguy

A Chrysler wagon those years was an unusual sight.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

I love the one-year-only '65 Chevy color called Evening Orchid (Iris Mist at Pontiac). I can't say I recall Olds or Buick having it. Pair it with white interior, and it was gorgeous IMHO. I even love it on the Corvair that year.

Didn't one of our forum members here (explorerx4, maybe?) take a pic of a '65 Impala in Evening Orchid at the GM show in Carlisle PA one year? I seem to recall that, unless I'm having a Ronald Reagan moment!

uplanderguy

That's ringing a bell.

When I was in grade school, one of the school administrators had an Evening Orchid '65 Impala Sport Coupe 327 with black cloth interior, which he'd park out on the street. I recall many times looking at it out the classroom window.

At my 40th high school reunion his son and I were talking and I mentioned that car. He was amazed I could remember it. It was traded on a plum-colored '68 Chevelle Malibu wagon, which I also remember.

ab348

Back in 2016 the Mecum auction offered a '65 Grand Prix with original Iris Mist paint and what Pontiac called a plum interior (which looked black to me).





It is no doubt a nice color but I think the problem is that it was a subtle shade even from new, and with decades of aging, even with the best care, it tends to look almost like a non-color. Of course a modern base/clear repaint would make it pop, if the shop could get the paint formulation right, which is often difficult with certain '60s metallic paints.

uplanderguy

That interior color is identical to my former brother-in-law's parents' '65 Grand Prix.

I actually like the instrument panel better without A/C, which gave you that big lump at the top of the center part of the panel. For '65, Chevy's was totally integrated into the lower part of the panel, but the '67 Chevy dash had the big lump on top for the A/C too.

Generally not a fan of skirts, but all '65 GP's had them. They're well-integrated into the design I think.

That car is begging for eight-lug wheels.

I've long-thought that instrument panel was the best sixties domestic panel, followed, for me, by the '64 Studebaker Gran Turismo Hawk panel.

You know, outside, I rather prefer the fastback roof and regular taillights of the Bonneville Sports Coupe, which could be had with the same panel, console, and bucket seats as the Grand Prix, but that extra wheelbase is a bit of a turnoff. And it does have that large Bonneville emblem that resembles a UFO on the front fender.

sda

" Of course a modern base/clear repaint would make it pop, if the shop could get the paint formulation right, which is often difficult with certain '60s metallic paints."

When my grandmother had her 68 Cutlass repainted in 85 it was resprayed in the original color and was clear coated. It did look nice, great shine, but the light silver blue was now of a darker shade. If you hadn't see it before I don't think it was noticeable. It still looked sharp.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

At my 40th high school reunion his son and I were talking and I mentioned that car. He was amazed I could remember it. It was traded on a plum-colored '68 Chevelle Malibu wagon, which I also remember.

It's funny how stuff like that can stick in our minds, when we're into cars. A few years back, I remember getting a Christmas tree at a local setup run by the Lions Club or some similar association. One of the guys there recognized me; it turned out we went to the same church back in the 80's.

I was like, oh, yeah...didn't you guys have a light green '72 Impala? He looked a bit confused for a second but then seemed to remember and said "You know, I think we did have a car like that."

It was funny how I could remember it, just like it was yesterday, but it was almost like he had put it out of his mind.

andre1969

ab348 said:

It is no doubt a nice color but I think the problem is that it was a subtle shade even from new, and with decades of aging, even with the best care, it tends to look almost like a non-color.

I can see that being a problem. When it was new, they probably had to draw a fine line between making it unique, but not stand out too much, or it might get associated with a "girly" image. But yeah, I could totally see that fading to something that just looked like a washed-out gray, as it aged.

Back when I bought my 2000 Intrepid, which was silver, I really wanted a green one. They offered two shades. One was a nice, deep green, more on the "forest/sequoia/British racing green" end of the spectrum. The other was lighter, more of a "sage" I guess. I had the dealer search the area, to see if they had any green ones. The only one that came up was the light one. They had a minivan on the lot that was the same color, that they said to go look at, to get an idea. It really only looked green, when the light hit it at just the right angle, and really looked more gray, than green. So, I passed.

uplanderguy

Here's the '65 Grand Prix panel.

Yeah, the manifold vacuum gauge was essentially a fuel economy gauge, useless really, but it looked nice on the console. No place in the panel for a tach, but one was an option and was an add-on-looking thing to the left of the ribbon speedometer. I wouldn't want the tach. But I am in love with the rest of the panel. Just looks expensive to me. Nobody else had anything like it that year IMHO. Also like the grab bar and map light above the glovebox.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

That car is begging for eight-lug wheels.

I've long-thought that instrument panel was the best sixties domestic panel, followed, for me, by the '64 Studebaker Gran Turismo Hawk panel.

You know, outside, I rather prefer the fastback roof and regular taillights of the Bonneville Sports Coupe, which could be had with the same panel, console, and bucket seats as the Grand Prix, but that extra wheelbase is a bit of a turnoff. And it does have that large Bonneville emblem that resembles a UFO on the front fender.

Well, here you go, though the restorer/refresher managed to screw up too many things.

http://topclassiccarsforsale.com/pontiac/238805-1965-pontiac-catalina-ventura-rare-iris-mist.html

sda

uplanderguy said:

Here's the '65 Grand Prix panel.

Yeah, the manifold vacuum gauge was essentially a fuel economy gauge, useless really, but it looked nice on the console. No place in the panel for a tach, but one was an option and was an add-on-looking thing to the left of the ribbon speedometer. I wouldn't want the tach. But I am in love with the rest of the panel. Just looks expensive to me. Nobody else had anything like it that year IMHO. Also like the grab bar and map light above the glovebox.

That is a good looking dashboard and interior. I also like the chrome trimmed brake/gas pedals.

uplanderguy

ab, that Ventura would look great with original eight-lug wheels (not black), and correct seating.

The Pontiac dash loses a whole lot, IMHO, without the woodgrain (which I'd always heard was real, or at least veneer) and handle over on the right side. That huge swath of black on anything below a Bonneville or Grand Prix, was black no matter what color interior you got.

imidazol97

I hate to be a Donald Downer, but I never cared for the light color of the woodgrain on those dashes.

ab348

We had a series of 1960s Pontiacs when I was a kid: a '62 Laurentian in dark red metallic (a Chevy BelAir with the Pontiac body), a '63 (actually 2, first a plain-jane Laurentian in a solid tomato-soup red, then later on a turquoise Parisienne, both 4-door sedans); a '65 Parisienne in Burgundy metallic, and a '67 Parisienne in white. Both the '65 and '67 were 4-door hardtops with Chevy chassis, so they had the 283 with Powerglide.

The '65 had the coolest dash IMO as a kid because of the 3 dials in the middle. Both it and the '67 had large swaths of grained black vinyl on flat surfaces of the dash, which didn't really bother me at the time, though I don't think I ever saw the woodgrain version until many years later, so maybe it would have if I had known of that.

I didn't like the '67 as much because it had the big flat glovebox door on the right side and kind of a black hole in the upper center of the dash where the '65 had the 3 pods, and where the '63 had a decently-sized and nicely designed clock. The '67 finally moved away from making the heater controls look like a second radio side-by-side with the actual radio.

uplanderguy

Those three round gauges tilted towards the driver always struck me. I've seen some '63 and '64 U.S. Pontiacs with them (although they didn't look tilted towards the driver), but many without.

The '66 had the square gauges which I didn't like nearly as well, and the right 1/3 of the dash on all of the full-size Pontiacs had that clear, sort-of Lucite panel (for lack of a better word), with either "Catalina", "Pontiac" for Ventura and 2+2, "Star Chief Executive", "Grand Prix", or "Bonneville" on it. That took away the woodgrain in that area, but also the black vinyl on the lower models.

Funny, I have seen some '66 Executives where that dash had color-keyed vinyl instead of black--seems like it was on the Vista (four-door hardtop). I've seen other '66 Executives with black there, even with other-colored interiors.

I think GM had a little weird thing going on the medium-price lines' medium full-size models, like Delta 88 and Executive. The color-keying thing I mentioned, and also front bench seats on a Delta 88 four-door post sedan but center armrest on the four-door hardtop--those types of things.

I like how in '66 the Bonneville no longer had that big emblem on the front fenders, but I still like the '65 dash better. I like the looks of the slim-line 'Strato' bucket seats used across GM's cars starting in '66, but in my experience they were less padded in the seat back than the previous bucket seats. My first college roommate had his parents' old '68 Bonneville Brougham four-door hardtop, and the interior was a beautiful black knit, but those strato seat backs were thin and hard. I remember being very disappointed in that.

texases

Three tilted gauges, like the 240Z dash. I wish I had kept my dad's industrial design book from the '40s, it talked about how designs work be better with an odd number of elements, 1 or 3 or 5 instead of 2 or 4, for example.

fintail

I am glad others have the same affliction. I was just thinking I can remember the cars of my teachers going back to 2nd grade. Also the cars of neighbors, friends.

andre1969 said:

It's funny how stuff like that can stick in our minds, when we're into cars. A few years back, I remember getting a Christmas tree at a local setup run by the Lions Club or some similar association. One of the guys there recognized me; it turned out we went to the same church back in the 80's.

I was like, oh, yeah...didn't you guys have a light green '72 Impala? He looked a bit confused for a second but then seemed to remember and said "You know, I think we did have a car like that."

It was funny how I could remember it, just like it was yesterday, but it was almost like he had put it out of his mind.