I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

uplanderguy

Just saw this Miami TV station review of the '78 Cadillac Sedan deVille. Interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft0AXh5W0o4

uplanderguy

Whoa, 10.9 mpg city driving! Great paint quality but some overspray, and the old rotten-egg converter smell. Still, a nice take on a contemporary American luxury car of the time I think. Make mine a Fleetwood though--wide rocker trim and that tapered B-pillar. No 'D'Elegance' stuff for me...just the plain seating which is nice enough IMHO.

I actually like the full wheelcovers (non-wire).

andre1969

On the surface, the 267 doesn't sound like it was too bad. I think it had 125 hp in '79, while the 305 had 130 in 2-bbl form, or 160 as a 4-bbl. But then, it got cut to 120 hp for '80, and 115 for 1981-82. Still, I wonder what advantage it really gave you, versus a 305?

I just looked up a few specs, and the 267 had a slightly smaller bore than the 305. That might have helped a bit with emissions. At least, I remember reading awhile back that regardless of the engine's displacement, a bigger bore usually contributes to worse emissions, and once you got above roughly 4.00" in bore, it became almost impossible to make most of the bigger engines meet emissions standards. And those that did, required some severely oppressive emissions controls.

Oh, on the subject of 350 availability, here's something else to add to the confusion...the EPA lists it, as being offered in 1979 on the Malibu! https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/epadata/79guide.txt

It's offered both in California and 49-state, but only showing for the Malibu coupe/sedan entry. Not for wagons. And not for Monte Carlos. I have a feeling it's just a police car package, and they didn't annotate it properly. I've also been looking at these EPA stats for years, and this is the first time I really noticed the Malibu showing a 350. So I'm guessing that, every once in awhile, somebody goes in and revises these pages. Whether they revise them correctly or not, is a different story, though!

andre1969

That's a cool period piece on the '78 Caddy. To be honest though, 10.9 mpg in something that size, city driving, with the a/c on, doesn't sound all that bad. I've had (and have) cars that can easily get into single digits in local driving.

uplanderguy

The 350 was only available in Malibus of that era in the wagon. I never knew if I saw one but with the heavier transmission I'd have been interested, LOL.

kyfdx

andre1969 said:

That's a cool period piece on the '78 Caddy. To be honest though, 10.9 mpg in something that size, city driving, with the a/c on, doesn't sound all that bad. I've had (and have) cars that can easily get into single digits in local driving.

My aunt had an '85 Lincoln Mark VII LSC with the 160 HP 5.0 V-8. She had a 3 mile one-way commute to work, most of it at 25 MPH limit. Her average: 6.6 mpg.

andre1969

kyfdx said:

My aunt had an '85 Lincoln Mark VII LSC with the 160 HP 5.0 V-8. She had a 3 mile one-way commute to work, most of it at 25 MPH limit. Her average: 6.6 mpg.

When I bought my 2000 Intrepid, my commute to work was about 13 miles each way, and I still had my second job delivering pizzas. That car, with its 2.7, was EPA-rated 20/29. I think under the new metrics it would be revised to 18/27. It was almost impossible to get the car to break below 20 mpg, unless I was delivering pizzas in the dead of winter.

But, when I moved, and my commute to work was now only about 3.5 miles, it was hard to get that car above 20 mpg, unless I had a good mix of highway driving in. I think I got as bad as 16-17 mpg a few times. In 2010 it got even worse, when my project got moved to another building, and I was now only about 2.5 miles from work. By then I had the Park Avenue, and despite it being heavier, more displacement, and supercharged, it didn't do much worse with economy. Whenever I'd drive one of the antique cars to work, on a nice day, I'd drive around a bit on the back roads, on my way to and from work, so the car would get a chance to at least warm up!

I think I've gotten as bad as 8 mpg with my '67 Catalina. That '76 LeMans, the one I got out in Ohio, has gotten into the 7's!

ab348

andre1969 said:

Oh, on the subject of 350 availability, here's something else to add to the confusion...the EPA lists it, as being offered in 1979 on the Malibu! https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/epadata/79guide.txt

It's offered both in California and 49-state, but only showing for the Malibu coupe/sedan entry. Not for wagons. And not for Monte Carlos. I have a feeling it's just a police car package, and they didn't annotate it properly. I've also been looking at these EPA stats for years, and this is the first time I really noticed the Malibu showing a 350. So I'm guessing that, every once in awhile, somebody goes in and revises these pages. Whether they revise them correctly or not, is a different story, though!

I tried finding Chevy police package brochures to clarify this. I found a '78 brochure but it only showed the Impala and the Nova. But then I found an '81 Chevy police brochure and it was really interesting. Back in the days of the police Novas, I know one of the Chevy dealers locally used to order them for civilian use, as it was a thing that was discussed in the auto magazines in the mid-late '70s. I suspect it might have carried over into part of the '80s. The '81 brochure suggests that not only did ordering the police spec get you an upgraded frame, better suspension, better quality engine and the like, but that you could order one pretty much with whatever you wanted, even in a coupe body. And the 350 was offered in the police Malibu for '81. It is a bit vague on what interior trim looked like and if you could upgrade to a better spec, but you could order pretty much everything else on the option list. That might have been the way to go.

Here's the link to the '81 police brochure: https://www.xr793.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/1981-Chevrolet-Police-Taxi-Vehicles.pdf

andre1969

The only information I really have handy on 350 Malibu police cars is secondary information in a Mopar police car book that covers 1979-94.

Apparently, in 1978, the Nova was still used as the basis for the "small" police car, and it scored very well. But for '79, they switched the "small" package over to the Malibu, and it didn't do so well. It made demand for Aspen/Volare police cars skyrocket, although there was some backlash against them when they started having torsion bar issues.

An outfit called Police Product News tested a '79 Malibu and Volare at the International Raceway in Orange County, Ca. Here's their results:

Volare (360-4bbl, 195hp): 0-60 in 8.7 seconds, 0-100 in 22.8
Malibu (350-4bbl, 170 hp (I think)): 0-60 in 8.9 seconds, 0-100 in 28.5

In '79, the Michigan State Police, which is often considered the "Bible" of police car tests, only tested full-sized police cars (St. Regis, Newport, Impala, LTD) with the LTD-II thrown in for good measure. For 1980 though, they included the Aspen/Volare and Malibu. And, (don't laugh) a Fairmont with a 255! They tested both a 305 and 350 Malibu. With the Mopars, they tested a 360 Aspen, and a 318 Aspen and Volare.

Here's those numbers:

Malibu 305: 0-60 in 12.8 seconds, 0-100 N/A. But the top speed was 113 mph
Malibu 350: 0-60 in 12.3 seconds, 0-100 N/A, top speed 111 mph
Volare 318: 0-60 in 12.6 seconds, 0-100 N/A, top speed 120 mph
Aspen 318: 0-60 in 13.2 seconds, 0-100 N/A, top speed 117 mph
Volare 360: 0-60 in 10.9 seconds, 0-100 N/A, top speed 122 mph
Fairmont 255: 0-60 in 15.9 seconds, 0-100 N/A, top speed 112 mph

In 1981, the Aspen/Volare were retired, and the Diplomat/LeBaron became the "small" Mopar squad car. Here's a few stats from that:

Malibu 350: 0-60 in 11.42 seconds, 0-100 in 40.27, top speed 111.9 mph
LeBaron 318: 0-60 in 12.86 seconds, 0-100 in 45.24, top speed 114.7 mph
Diplomat 318: 0-60 in 12.84 seconds, 0-100 in 42.71, top speed 116.3 mph
Fairmont 255: 0-60 in 13.63 seconds, 0-60 in 65.79, top speed 106.4 mph

Some masochist also decided to enter some police cars Mother Nature never intended, that produced almost laughable results. Although I guess they were adequate for routine patrols, donut runs, etc...

Fairmont 200: 0-60 in 18.77 seconds, 0-100 not happening, top speed 92.3 mph
LeSabre 252: 0-60 in 17.51 seconds, 0-100 in your dreams, top speed 97.1 mph
LeBaron 225: 0-60 in 21.06 seconds, 0-100 in "Thank you Sir, may I have another please!" , top speed 92.5 mph.

I'll post the 1982-83 results later. I have to stop and take a break. When I saw some of what they tested in '82, my drink went down the wrong way and I almost did a "spit take"

sda

Only the Volare with the 360 could be considered relatively quick, but still almost 11 sec to 60. Anything quicker than less than 10 sec to 60 was not common. I laugh when today anything that takes longer than 8 sec to 60 is considered slow.

uplanderguy

One last '78 Cadillac item--this TV commercial featuring the Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance.

Again, I don't care for the pillow seats of the d'Elegance, but I like the exterior of the Fleetwood.

Uh, the main character in this commercial reminds me of someone I think we'll all be reminded of, and I'll leave it there. (despite that the setting is SF)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOfevzOFMfY

andre1969

The 1978 Fury/Monaco, with a 440, is often considered the last really "good" police car, probably until sometime in the early 90's. My copcar book mentions a 1978 Monaco that did 0-60 in 9.3 seconds and had a top speed of 133 mph.

I found some old Michigan State Police stats from 1978, which don't list 0-60, but do mention 0-100, top speed, and some other interesting specs.


Here's the entire article, which makes for some pretty good reading: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/1978-michigan-state-police-patrol-vehicle-test-the-beginning-and-end-of-an-era/

It's interesting that both Pontiac AND Buick offered police car packages that year. The LeSabre did pretty badly, and the Catalina was a bit underwhelming, considering the size of the engine, and apparently wasn't happy at higher speeds like the Impala was.

I'm surprised Olds didn't offer a police package. I'd think a Delta 88 with a 403 would have been pretty formidable back then. Or even a 350.

For 1979, the quickest full-sized police car was a St. Regis with a 360-4bbl.
0-60 in 10.1 seconds, 0-100 in 30.2 seconds, top speed of 122.9 mph.

By 1989, the Caprice with a 350 did the following:
0-60 in 9.82 seconds, 0-100 in 29.35, and a top speed of 122.0

So basically, it took a decade to get back to 1979 performance levels!

A few other milestones:

1993 Caprice, 350 TBI: 0-60 in 8.77 seconds, 0-100 in 25.86, top speed of 132.0 mph. My book doesn't list 1992 tests, but I imagine that it was this Caprice that finally gave the '78 440 Monaco/Fury a run for its money.

1994 Caprice, 350 LT-1: 0-60 in 8.30 seconds, 0-100 in 21.64, top speed 141.2. At first glance, I would've thought the LT-1 would've been a lot quicker from 0-60, but maybe it was geared a bit taller than the civilian models, like the Impala SS and such? But then, also, police car acceleration times tend to be a bit less "spirited" than what you see in the buff rags like MT, C&D, etc. I think I read that for the MSP tests, at least, they just put two beefy cops in the car, and possibly throw in some weight so simulate duty gear and such, and make them take off normally. No manually shifting the transmission, no "power-launching", etc.

fintail

There's a bunch of stuff from that reviewer on YT, I recall a few. DeVille seems like it was a fair deal then, too.

At the end the Versailles was mentioned, I had to:

https://youtu.be/8Be1Q5jdQU0

And that led to this less than glowing review:

https://youtu.be/12r1mNaLROI

I noticed something that still sticks in my memory from my mom's T-Bird, the cruise control rocker switch on the steering wheel spoke.

uplanderguy said:

Just saw this Miami TV station review of the '78 Cadillac Sedan deVille. Interesting.

ab348

Quality wasn't job one at the Ford assembly plant the day that T-Bird was assembled. It's hard to believe how far we've come.

andre1969

Here's a test that guy did of the '79 New Yorker 5th Ave...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP9429qtWTc

So if they were getting 12.3 mpg combined, and using the ac, maybe my car, given its age and condition, and my driving habits, isn't too far off the mark. I have managed as high as 20, on a pure highway run, but can't do it consistently. And as bad as 9 or so, in short-trip local driving. The last time it went anywhere serious though, was in 2019 when I went to the Carlisle Mopar show. I filled it up the day before. Went up for the day on Saturday, and on the way back home, I filled up at the same gas station, which is the closest to my house. Round trip was 234 miles, most of it highway, although I was probably stuck idling in bumper-to-bumper, gridlock type traffic, for close to an hour, as there's always a traffic jam getting into this show. Anyway, my mileage was a fairly sad 14.04 mpg.

Some of the defects in this car were pretty embarrassing...more like what you'd expect from an old car that had been restored by an amateur, than something that just rolled off the assembly line! I wished they had showed more video of it doing the slalom test. It looks to me like it actually went into it fairly well, given its size. Heckuva lot better than that '75 T-bird, at least!

stickguy

I still recall a comparison road test from back in the 70s, probably in car and driver, of smaller police cars. Nova for sure, and the reason I remember, a Volvo 164. If nothing else, best seats ever in a cop car!

Found it! Was motor trend. Can’t locate actual article but this blog has a recap. And of course, the Volvo won!

https://olddeadvolvos.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/the-swedish-crown-victoria/

andre1969

I remember back in the 1980's, some county, or perhaps even just a city, in Virginia, went with Volvo police cars. It was in the newspapers. The people in charge decided to get all tree-huggy and said they would not consider a Ford or GM product because both companies had some kind of ties to nuclear power. Chrysler did not, but they said they didn't trust Mopar's reliability, so they decided to go with Volvo.

Some time later though, the truth came out that they were in bed with one of the local Volvo dealers, somebody got bribed, and, politics as usual...

Michaell

andre1969 said:

I remember back in the 1980's, some county, or perhaps even just a city, in Virginia, went with Volvo police cars. It was in the newspapers. The people in charge decided to get all tree-huggy and said they would not consider a Ford or GM product because both companies had some kind of ties to nuclear power. Chrysler did not, but they said they didn't trust Mopar's reliability, so they decided to go with Volvo.

Some time later though, the truth came out that they were in bed with one of the local Volvo dealers, somebody got bribed, and, politics as usual...

I'm pretty sure Aspen used either Saab or Volvo police cars in the 70's and 80's (maybe both).

explorerx4

A town in CT bought Volvo's to use as police cruisers, but they didn't hold up and were expensive to fix.
I seem to remember Windsor having them, but it also looks like Watertown also had at least one, too.

explorerx4

Nice try.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lzl5Jq9B8

Michaell

explorerx4 said:

Nice try.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lzl5Jq9B8

Erin Grey? Battlestar Galactica?

If so, I had a serious crush on her when I was a teen.

uplanderguy

I don't remember Nova police cars making much noise in the public arena in '74, but I seem to remember them in the '75-78 range being talked about a bit. Same basic car as the '74 but I think there may have been suspension upgrades available in the '75-78 range that weren't in earlier cars.

andre1969

Erin Gray was Colonel Wilma Deering, in "Buck Rogers". However, that show used a lot of stock footage, and props, from "Battlestar Galactica", so there's definitely some relation! Later on she was on the sitcom "Silver Spoons".

She was born in 1950, so in range of my Mom's age, so she was always too old for me to develop any lusty attractions for when I was a kid/teenager. But, admittedly, Catherine Bach wasn't that much younger, born in '54, and I can remember just about every kid my age getting hot and bothered for her. But, they tended to play up the sexy, wild angle for Catherine Bach, whereas Erin Gray always came off as kind of sophisticated and classy to me.

fintail

Ooh, warning lights!

andre1969

I just did a bit of digging around, and it looks like Mopar didn't even offer a compact police car until the 1976 Valiant. I think in general, there just wasn't much demand for small police cars, until the the first Arab Oil Embargo made the auto makers sit up and take note.

I guess most of the demand for smaller police cars was met with the midsized ones, before that.

Here's a pretty good page on the police car Novas. https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/vintage-review-chevrolet-nova-9c1-super-nova/

I always knew that the '68-74 Nova was heavily based on the '67 Camaro. But, I didn't realize that for '75, it started using the sub-frame from the '70 Camaro. I knew it had Camaro DNA, just didn't realize it was the improved '70 Camaro DNA. So, that probably explains why the '75+ made such good police cars! I'd imagine the '74, even though it was based on an older Camaro, was still probably one of the better handling compacts around.

**Edit: Looks like this article mentions the MT comparison test that Stickguy referenced, above. It has a blow-up chart that has a lot of good, detailed information. Surprisingly, the Volvo was almost as quick as the Nova from 0-60 (10.8 seconds versus 10.0), and a bit quicker in the quarter mile. Unfortunately, the chart doesn't list transmissions. I'd be curious if the Volvo had a manual shift, which would give it some advantage over an automatic.

roadburner

sda said:

Only the Volare with the 360 could be considered relatively quick, but still almost 11 sec to 60. Anything quicker than less than 10 sec to 60 was not common. I laugh when today anything that takes longer than 8 sec to 60 is considered slow.

Like my Clubman; with the naturally aspirated N12 1.6 liter motor it runs 0-60 in 9.5 seconds. My Arrow GT 2.6 was the fastest car in the Chrysler stable in 1979(one reason I bought it).

uplanderguy

I had the typical young guy TV crushes of Maureen McCormick and Susan Dey, and also liked Lisa Gerritsen of the Mary Tyler Moore show--wholesome, LOL.

As an adult I liked Crystal Bernard of the TV show "Wings".

Sorry to digress...not sorry, LOL.

andre1969

roadburner said:

sda said:

Only the Volare with the 360 could be considered relatively quick, but still almost 11 sec to 60. Anything quicker than less than 10 sec to 60 was not common. I laugh when today anything that takes longer than 8 sec to 60 is considered slow.

Like my Clubman; with the naturally aspirated N12 1.6 liter motor it runs 0-60 in 9.5 seconds. My Arrow GT 2.6 was the fastest car in the Chrysler stable in 1979(one reason I bought it).

Most tests I've seen of my 2003 Regal LS put it at around 8.0 seconds from 0-60. But good lord, that thing feels slow to me!

Michaell

andre1969 said:

Erin Gray was Colonel Wilma Deering, in "Buck Rogers". However, that show used a lot of stock footage, and props, from "Battlestar Galactica", so there's definitely some relation! Later on she was on the sitcom "Silver Spoons".

She was born in 1950, so in range of my Mom's age, so she was always too old for me to develop any lusty attractions for when I was a kid/teenager. But, admittedly, Catherine Bach wasn't that much younger, born in '54, and I can remember just about every kid my age getting hot and bothered for her. But, they tended to play up the sexy, wild angle for Catherine Bach, whereas Erin Gray always came off as kind of sophisticated and classy to me.

OK, "Buck Rogers", not BG.

But, spandex!

I was also a fan of Catherine Bach, as well. (then again, who wasn't?)

ab348

Because the Volvo assembly plant was here, the city tried a Volvo police car for a year. It didn't stick. This was when the 740 was in production and it was reportedly almost twice as expensive as a typical domestic cruiser.

andre1969

ab348 said:

Because the Volvo assembly plant was here, the city tried a Volvo police car for a year. It didn't stick. This was when the 740 was in production and it was reportedly almost twice as expensive as a typical domestic cruiser.

I could see that. My perception of the 240 and its relations is that it was essentially a Swedish Dodge Dart. Not the most sophisticated or flashy thing in the world, but durable, rugged, and cheap to fix. The 740...not so much.

I know I've told this story before (probably repeatedly), but my neighbors years ago had an '89 Volvo 740 wagon that they bought used in 1991 or 92. It was a dark metallic gray and had a black leather interior. It was boxy and angular, but still had a modern, upscale, and sturdy look to it. But, it was expensive when it broke.

By 1998, they were fed up with it, and traded it on a new Subaru Legacy Ouback wagon. I remember they said no local mechanic would touch it, so every time it broke it had to go back to the Volvo dealer in Virginia, where they bought it. And it tended to be around $1,000 every time it broke.

roadburner

andre1969 said:

ab348 said:

Because the Volvo assembly plant was here, the city tried a Volvo police car for a year. It didn't stick. This was when the 740 was in production and it was reportedly almost twice as expensive as a typical domestic cruiser.

I could see that. My perception of the 240 and its relations is that it was essentially a Swedish Dodge Dart. Not the most sophisticated or flashy thing in the world, but durable, rugged, and cheap to fix. The 740...not so much.

I know I've told this story before (probably repeatedly), but my neighbors years ago had an '89 Volvo 740 wagon that they bought used in 1991 or 92. It was a dark metallic gray and had a black leather interior. It was boxy and angular, but still had a modern, upscale, and sturdy look to it. But, it was expensive when it broke.

By 1998, they were fed up with it, and traded it on a new Subaru Legacy Outback wagon. I remember they said no local mechanic would touch it, so every time it broke it had to go back to the Volvo dealer in Virginia, where they bought it. And it tended to be around $1,000 every time it broke.

My wife drove a 1991 740 Turbo for several years. The reason she traded it is because it was squirrely on snow- the result of a high-stall torque convertible and a torque bump at @2,000 rpm. Lot's of fun at the Stop Light Grand Prix, however- I surprised more than a few contemporary Mustang 5.0 cars.

explorerx4

Not to get guys all riled up, but I remember Erin Gray from Battle of the Network Stars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_5my2VJ0jI

uplanderguy

RE.: Full size cop cars--I have read in two or three places over the decades, that a fair amount of police liked the whale Caprice as a cop car better than the CV. Only natural that some would I guess. One time I was getting service at the dealer, quite a few years back, and there was some employee magazine with interviews with police chiefs saying that, and also taxi owners saying that with the 350 engine, they got longer life out of the Caprice. The 350 was often repeated in that article I remember.

GM just walked away from that niche and started building Tahoes in the plant they built Caprices and Roadmasters in.

That reminds me--I always wished Buick would have called that car the Electra. "Roadmaster" sounded so outdated to me.

texases

Parked next to one of these yesterday at my favorite burger shop, same colors, much worse condition:

uplanderguy

Barrett-Jackson result from yesterday, since we were talking about these cars. I don't have an opinion one way or the other on the price or the car. 1988 Monte Carlo SS, 249 miles, $32,000 sale price before the 10% commission.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R9uGiKYA14

ab348

$32K is the special B-J "old drunk guy with money" price, only obtained there.

fintail

Seems like a poor ROI for 35 years of storing and barely driving, I have to imagine it was over 15K when new.

tjc78

I don’t get it. Buy a really nice one for 10K and have 22k for something else.

andre1969

Only thing I can think of, with that Monte SS, is that it's the final year for them, and the really low mileage. But, for 1988 being the final year (and a short year too, only like 3 months), they weren't particularly rare. 16,204 built. That's actually slightly more than the LS, of which 13,970 were built that year.

I wonder if the black paintjob was comparatively rare? I don't know what colors were offered in 1988, specifically, but I always picture Monte SS'es as being burgundy or white, and the occasional bluish gray.

andre1969

fintail said:

Seems like a poor ROI for 35 years of storing and barely driving, I have to imagine it was over 15K when new.

Not to mention car insurance, presuming the owner had it insured. I guess, if it's taken off the road and stored, you might be able to get away with dropping insurance, but it could be risky. I don't think homeowner's insurance would cover it.

According to my old car book, an '88 Monte SS started at $14,320, and a lot of stuff was still optional on these, so yeah, easily $15K or more, I'm sure. Especially by the time you threw on taxes, freight, and all the other incidentals. I think even my Mom's '86, which was just a base sport coupe, but with the 305 at least, was in the $14K range.

So at $32K, they're actually losing money just on the MSRP, based on inflation.

tjc78

uplanderguy said:

Whoa, 10.9 mpg city driving! Great paint quality but some overspray, and the old rotten-egg converter smell. Still, a nice take on a contemporary American luxury car of the time I think. Make mine a Fleetwood though--wide rocker trim and that tapered B-pillar. No 'D'Elegance' stuff for me...just the plain seating which is nice enough IMHO.

I actually like the full wheelcovers (non-wire).

Cool video.

My 2012 LaCrosse would smell like rotten eggs when you got on it too.

explorerx4

I would guess based on the low mileage, the owner of the MC SS didn't carry regular insurance on it.

fintail

Out today saw a MB W115 (diesel) unknown model but I could hear it ,looked very clean, and a 70s Town Car - no opera window.

uplanderguy

I normally keep Studebaker stuff on the Studebaker page, but this to me is absolutely astounding, having been in the hobby almost 35 years. 1963 Zip Van mail truck sold on BaT for $28,500. When I looked a day or so ago, it was $9,200.

Studebaker won the government bid on mail trucks, and this was their design although an outside company built the bodies. They were all six-cylinder, automatic, and Twin Traction, with tinted windshield. As the video showed, they were reportedly peppy off the line, but topped out at something like 45 or 50.

Over the years, I've seen basket-cases of these going for something like $500.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1963-studebaker-zip-van-2/?fbclid=IwAR0l9Qmf0iXRAeFGIYqHEG5K5VTxdO-LTaeMFOyGXPfbFPOkbOwwRqSMGiY

Here's a few of them new, with the Studebaker Administration Building in South Bend in the background:

ab348

Well, there is a lot of cash burning holes in some people's pockets out there right now. Looking at the listing, it was a "nice" example but far from perfect. The price astounds me because it is not the kind of thing you buy to drive around much, so it sits in a facility 99% of the time gathering dust and hoping for fiscal appreciation. Good luck!

To me the coolest thing about it is the name "Zip Van", given that USPS was rolling out zip codes around that time and was trying to get people to use them.

uplanderguy

I'll guess it's probably no accident, but as basic as those trucks were, they still had a vestige of the traditional trapezoidal Stude grille. I like the one-piece windshield. I've seen other mail trucks of the general vintage with two-piece windshields. I definitely remember seeing Zip Van NOS windshields in inventory at Studebaker International a few years back--although they're just flat glass, but...still!

My Dad worked inside our local post office and I absolutely remember them having Zip Vans. Front emblem:




Off the subject, wife is away two weekends from now and I think I'm going to ask a Stude buddy if he feels like going back over to Auburn, IN for the two great museums there. Been three years. A third Stude buddy always says "You like seeing and doing the same stuff", although he goes to his high school's sporting games week in, week out, which is like paint drying to me, LOL.

ab348

It needs a Mr. Zip (Zippy to his friends) mannequin behind the wheel.

texases

Saw a nice MB W124 300E on the way to work, in that medium metallic silver that was unusual back then, everywhere now.

fintail

That's BaT for ya, sometimes I wonder what's going on. The Zip Van design always amused me, as it has kind of a brow or protruding forehead - I guess adds some visibility.