I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

Speaking of old ads, I recently came across this - in the 60s MBs were so advanced that other companies used them to promote their products:

fintail

And speaking of ads again, now and then I look at the local newspaper archive, pull a "this day in history" file to weep about housing prices and take in the old ambience - some really rare stuff in this diesel themed ad from 1983. That Olds 98 Regency coupe has to virtually not exist in diesel form today, sounds like a pretty car in that color combo, and I bet the Eldo was nice too





:

ab348

I would have thought (and seem to recall) that the problems of the Olds diesels were well-known among the buying public by '83 and used cars with them were not saleable unless steeply discounted from comparable gas engine models. Those prices don't seem particularly low for the era.

uplanderguy

Here's two of three Champion ads featuring the Avanti.

uplanderguy

Spotted on I-71N en route home from Columbus today. I had my daughter take the pictures while I drove.

The Eldo--I say again, I didn't like these at the time but rather do now, particularly these later ones. It's begging for the original-style pinstripe whitewall though. Also, the pinstriping is aftermarket--I am nearly certain the factory job followed the actual contours of the body.

andre1969

I love the hyperbole in that ad "All New V6 Diesel. Isuzu helped Buick design this super engine..."

Right. Isuzu taught Buick how to lop two cylinders off of an Oldsmobile engine. Actually, DID Isuzu have any input in designing the Olds Diesels, or was that all on GM?

Good to know 11.9% financing was still available! Better hurry before the interest rates change!

uplanderguy

I financed my '82 Monte Carlo through GMAC, in Nov. '82, at 10.9%. What a steal, ugh.

I wonder if the '83 LeSabre in the ad with the 'newest, most popular color...' was that light briar brown.

andre1969

It's amazing how fast interest rates dropped. I vaguely remember an old Nissan truck commercial with soldiers marching and chanting "Nine Point Niiiiiine, Nine Point Niiiiine! I gotta truck for Nine Point Nine!"

By the 1984-85 tv season, I remember AMC offering 0 percent financing. And at some point, GM was offering some deal where you got 2.9% for 36 months, 3.9% for 48, and 4.9% for 60.

I remember my Mom taking advantage of some low-APR finance deal when she bought her Monte Carlo. I forget the exact terms, but I'm thinking it was 48 months, and the payment was either $272 or $282 per month. But I don't know how much she financed, or what the interest rate was.

ab348

fintail said:

Speaking of old ads, I recently came across this - in the 60s MBs were so advanced that other companies used them to promote their products:

Growing up in that era, their ads convinced me that Champion brand spark plugs were top-quality. That was reinforced when Dad bought his '71 Monaco and I discovered that Chrysler used Champions as standard equipment (since they didn't have their own brand like GM and Ford did). I was therefore quite surprised to find recently that Adam of Rare Classic Cars dissed Champions as being one of the reasons his '70s Mopars did not run so well, and recommended changing them out for AC plugs.

tjc78

@andre1969 said:
It's amazing how fast interest rates dropped. I vaguely remember an old Nissan truck commercial with soldiers marching and chanting "Nine Point Niiiiiine, Nine Point Niiiiine! I gotta truck for Nine Point Nine!"

By the 1984-85 tv season, I remember AMC offering 0 percent financing. And at some point, GM was offering some deal where you got 2.9% for 36 months, 3.9% for 48, and 4.9% for 60.

I remember my Mom taking advantage of some low-APR finance deal when she bought her Monte Carlo. I forget the exact terms, but I'm thinking it was 48 months, and the payment was either $272 or $282 per month. But I don't know how much she financed, or what the interest rate was.

Those low interest rates were a big deal back then, I’m sure that helped sell a lot of cars.

andre1969

Now that I think about it, the '86 Monte Carlo was the first car my Mom ever financed. She might have borrowed money from relatives and then paid it back (her '66 Catalina as a teenager) or gotten a hand-me-down (her '68 Impala in that Grecian Green), but she had never borrowed from a bank or finance company.

Incidentally, every car since that Monte Carlo, she has financed. It's not that she fell on hard financial times, but at those low interest rates, it made it too tempting NOT to finance!

I wonder what the auto industry would be like today, if things were like back in the day, where leasing was rare, most terms were only 36 months at best, and there was none of this "yo' job's yo' credit"/anybody-with-a-pulse easy credit type stuff going on.

For the most part, my family has never bought anything all that extravagant. I'd guess the most extreme was a '97 or '98 Expedition my Mom and stepdad bought new, but they had that thing for about 20 years. But I imagine that, with low-apr financing, leasing and such, there are plenty of people who use it to go out and buy more vehicle than they would, otherwise.

sda

When I traded my 76 Sunbird for a used 80 Mazda 626 coupe in 84 dad had to co-sign the loan. IIRC it was 15% with payments of $106/36.

ab348

andre1969 said:

Incidentally, every car since that Monte Carlo, she has financed. It's not that she fell on hard financial times, but at those low interest rates, it made it too tempting NOT to finance!

I wonder what the auto industry would be like today, if things were like back in the day, where leasing was rare, most terms were only 36 months at best, and there was none of this "yo' job's yo' credit"/anybody-with-a-pulse easy credit type stuff going on.

Not much different than the housing/real estate industry. Low interest rates and easy access to borrowing caused demand to increase, and expectations to rise. Not too many families need a 4000 sq ft chateau with 5 bedrooms and 6 baths along with all sorts of living/gaming/play space and a kitchen equipped to run a restaurant. But lots of people think they do. Same with $80K pickup trucks and SUVs.

This is my favorite example of real estate excess recently: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/312-N-Faring-Rd-Los-Angeles-CA-90077/20523932_zpid/?fbclid=IwAR3jAdP7A_PQ9upX3O2TffY0KAaj9NuUFOxNcOLD8QadahaHA1_qLkG-Kgw&mmlb=g,0

kyfdx

I can remember an Accord lease in the late '90s, where the money factor was .00236.

But, car loans were at 5%-8% APR, so it was still a balanced choice between buy/lease.

My first car loan was in '77. I don't remember the interest rate, but the payment was $108/mo for 48 months.

tjc78

@ab348 said:
Not much different than the housing/real estate industry. Low interest rates and easy access to borrowing caused demand to increase, and expectations to rise. Not too many families need a 4000 sq ft chateau with 5 bedrooms and 6 baths along with all sorts of living/gaming/play space and a kitchen equipped to run a restaurant. But lots of people think they do. Same with $80K pickup trucks and SUVs.

This is my favorite example of real estate excess recently: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/312-N-Faring-Rd-Los-Angeles-CA-90077/20523932_zpid/?fbclid=IwAR3jAdP7A_PQ9upX3O2TffY0KAaj9NuUFOxNcOLD8QadahaHA1_qLkG-Kgw&mmlb=g,0

Haha 18k sq ft. I build and remodel retail stores half that size.

uplanderguy

My first car loan, on a new '81 Monte Carlo in Jan. '81, was 36 mos. at (I'm almost sure) $172 a month.

Car was $8,192 and I'm almost sure my trade-in was $3,100. I have no idea what cash I put down.

I remember I had worked at my job since Sept. '80. Where I banked wouldn't give me a loan, even with a co-signer. My Dad went to his bank back in my hometown in Greenville, PA and talked to old Mr. Mortensen, president of First National Bank, and got me a loan and I didn't even have to go there. I signed everything via the mail and talked on the phone. I remember rubbing it in a bit to my banker in the town where I worked and banked.

I started paying cash for new cars in 2005 although my wife was nervous on our current ('19) Equinox so I financed $10K for 48 mos. and paid it off about a year-and-a-half early. My habit though is generally buying comparatively inexpensive new cars.

tjc78

I’ve only financed one car, my 98 Olds 88. Everything since then has been leased.

explorerx4

This house is about 5 miles from where I live. Almost 52k sq ft.
Cheap per square foot, though!
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rapper-50-cent-sells-massive-connecticut-mansion-at-84-percent-loss/

uplanderguy

I only ever leased one vehicle, a '99 Venture van. We typically would go over the mileage maximums so I just never liked the thought of leasing after that one.

roadburner

We leased my wife’s 1991 Volvo 740 Turbo; it was as open end lease; the value at lease end would be NADA retail. We came out OK.
My only other lease was the 2016 i3 REx; no way would I pass up a two year $100/month deal…

andre1969

I've wondered if I'd be a good candidate for a lease, since I really don't drive that much anymore. But, I don't like the idea of not truly "owning" something, I guess. It has its pros and cons, I'm sure. At the end of the lease, just turn it in if you don't want it, or buy out I guess.

I've tried looking into leasing and reading up on it, but it's just something that kind of confuses my mind. It's like explaining bitcoin/crypto-currency to me

texases

This just out:
https://jalopnik.com/dont-lease-a-car-right-now-1848703172

andre1969

ab348 said:

Not much different than the housing/real estate industry. Low interest rates and easy access to borrowing caused demand to increase, and expectations to rise. Not too many families need a 4000 sq ft chateau with 5 bedrooms and 6 baths along with all sorts of living/gaming/play space and a kitchen equipped to run a restaurant. But lots of people think they do. Same with $80K pickup trucks and SUVs.

Yep, admittedly real estate was strong on my mind, when I mentioned low APR financing and leases, and the similarity to low interest rates. About the only difference I can think of is that with cars, even a cheap econobox these days is much better than one from back in the day. And when you take into consideration the standard features, safety advances, performance improvements and such, are still a bit of a bargain, inflation-adjusted. Low interest rates on houses, alas, have made EVERYTHING go up, even crap houses that are tear-downs. Although, I guess the current economy is similar in that respect, since with inflation now, cars that would have been wholesaled or junked in more reasonable times are now being peddled for thousands of $ more than they should be!

Sad thing about a bigger house though, is that once you get used to it, you wonder how you got along without it! My house was advertised at 2872 square feet, although 432 of that is an enclosed sunroom that's really more of a 3-season room. But, it has one of those dedicated-plug window a/c units (220V?) and electric baseboard heat, so I think for assessment purposes they consider it true living space. The basement is another 960 square feet. The house seemed HUGE when I moved into it. I was coming from about 1500 square feet and no basement. But now, every once in awhile, I question myself, and think, "is this big enough?" But then, I learn to throw things out, and that helps somewhat.

Even with the garage I had built, which is 36x60 with a 15x60 loft, I've caught myself second-guessing...is this big enough? It's an easy trap to fall into!

stickguy

Andre, a lease is just another way to finance a car. As is paying cash (that is self financing!). What’s best depends on your needs and wants. Sometimes leasing is the best option.

tjc78

@texases said:
This just out:
https://jalopnik.com/dont-lease-a-car-right-now-1848703172

Leases are terrible right now on just about everything. Article nails it. No incentives or super low MF and discounts from the dealer are non-existent.

uplanderguy

andre, I agree wholeheartedly. Whomever said "Space is the greatest luxury" was spot-on IMHO.

uplanderguy

Saw this for the first time today, and believe it is legit (as opposed to somebody playing around online). I don't dislike it. I have to wonder if the Monte's already-stretched 116" wheelbase was further stretched to make a four-door proposal. Interesting that it has flush door handles when the other midsized GM's of the time had the old push-button-then-pull handles.

andre1969

For that 4-door hardtop Monte concept, my guess is that they put back the 4" they took out of the 4-door wheelbase to make the coupes, so that you ended up with a 120" wheelbase. While the Monte, as-is, was on a 116" wb like the sedans, those extra 4" were ahead of the cowl, to make that longer hood, and to bring the front axle 4" further out.

Apparently they toyed with the idea for the Colonades, as well...
I'll admit, I kinda like both the first-gen mockup, and the Colonade, more than I probably should.

I don't know if GM ever thought about trying it with the downsized '78+ Monte. But that didn't stop the creators of "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" from making one!
And look, it's in Jadestone!

uplanderguy

Looks like a completed '71 Impala Sport Sedan in the background of the Colonnade sedan, interesting. Although I always say I don't like the four-door Colonnade roofline (the cars look 'stretched' to me, and they are--although I guess that's not related to the roofline), I'm so used to seeing a quarter window behind the door that I don't think I like none there.

The Colonnade pic reminds me that the '73 Monte rear end styling is the best of the '73-77 years, but I guess that's natural because it has the smallest rear bumper.

andre1969

I agree that the '73 Monte has the best rear of the the '73-77 generation. In addition to the smaller bumper, I like the way the taillights are inset a bit, and the way the rear of the trunklid "tucks" for lack of a better word.


I think the '74 looks a bit clunkier. Not only the thicker, more jutting bumper, but I don't like the trunk treatment, either. The way they put the license plate above the bumper, and have the lower edge of the trunk cutting across it, and the way that area between the taillights is more squared-off.
It's not ugly, in my opinion, but I think the '73 treatment looks a bit more integrated, upscale. Even slightly exotic.

At least the '74 taillights still look nice to me. In '75 they were more flush, and it looks like they tried to square off the rear, in general...

uplanderguy

The '75 taillights are the worst of that gen IMHO. ..although I don't like the '77's either. And for the sake of a minor model year change, they tacked on a hood ornament in '77, which doesn't fit with the otherwise swoopy lines IMHO.

In '75 they started using that wide body side molding, which totally detracts from the side styling IMHO. I'm thinking that year, or maybe a year or two later, the GP also had a wide molding which actually was picked up again behind the rear wheel opening. Ick.

I'll always remember the firethorn-ish new '73 Grand Prix SJ in the showroom of Phil Godfrey Pontiac in Greenville, PA. It had those vaned/finned wheelcovers, and matching cloth bucket seat interior. I don't know if I've ever seen another I liked as well. The door panels then didn't have the flimsy Monte Carlo-style pull straps, which later ones had tacked right onto the big woodgrained panel on the doors.

It looks like that '75 Monte was repainted, as it's lacking the standard Landau pinstriping on the top of the body side, ending at the rear of the door.

roadburner

I preferred the styling of the 1973 as well; my only gripe was that you could see several bits of the wiring between the top of the rear bumper and the trunk. It looked unfinished- my mother even noticed it.

andre1969

Just to finish out the set, here's the '76 rear...

And the '77...
I think the '76 is okay, with the tall, full taillight that's uncluttered. Although I do prefer the way the '75 and earlier taillights were canted inward toward the trunk, whereas these are flat across the back. And then, for '77 they segmented it, and reduced its height, and I don't think it looks as good. But, if nothing else, it lets you tell them apart!

uplanderguy

For a long time, I liked the '76 best of that-gen Monte. I'd probably like the '73 best, but interior-wise, by '76 they were offering optional interiors that you couldn't get in '73, and the gauge cluster in the '73 is black no matter what color interior, and later years the cluster was color-keyed, a huge improvement IMHO.

Boy, in that era Chevy, I can't stand when you don't order the 'Deluxe Bumpers' (bumper strips) to cover those awful bumper bolts. I can usually do without the guards, but I need the strips.

ab348

Crash bumpers ruined everything.

Interesting that they offered 4 rear (and presumably front) bumper variations - plain chrome, chrome with guards, chrome with rub strip, and chrome with guards and a rub strip. Those were the days.

stickguy

seems easy to create a 4 door (or wagon) Monte Carlo, especially on the later downsized cars. Wasn't it pretty much just a different nose clip on a Malibu? Door door rear fenders and door skins I assume different but largely same underneath.

so start with the nose and see what happens!

kyfdx

At the time, the whole point of those cars was to NOT have 4-doors. Coupes were cool. Sedans were not.

andre1969

stickguy said:

seems easy to create a 4 door (or wagon) Monte Carlo, especially on the later downsized cars. Wasn't it pretty much just a different nose clip on a Malibu? Door door rear fenders and door skins I assume different but largely same underneath.

so start with the nose and see what happens!

Well, if ya want to do it quick and dirty, there's always this route...
Go find an El Camino SS with that style front end, and put its nose on the Malibu of your choice. So that at least makes it look a bit like a Monte SS, if not a Monte. BUT, make sure you get the El Camino nose, and not the actual Monte SS nose. They're two different pieces. The front of the Monte's fenders are vertical, wheras they're angled back on the Malibu/El Camino. The Monte Carlo is also slightly narrower and more tapered, so its nose would be too narrow for a Malibu.

andre1969

In contrast, Ford tended to make their cars a bit more easy-swap. Want a Thunderbird wagon? Here ya go!
It could also be done with the Ford LTD-II sedan, but I can't find any pics online of anyone having done so. And in person, years ago, I remember seeing an LTD-II coupe that someone had put a T-bird front on. It almost sounds like a "why bother" type of thing, but in this case, this was years ago when these types of cars were just old cars. I think it had been wrecked, it was probably easier to find a T-bird in the junkyard than it was an LTD-II, so they used that.

andre1969

kyfdx said:

At the time, the whole point of those cars was to NOT have 4-doors. Coupes were cool. Sedans were not.

I wonder if GM was trying to copy the 4-door T-bird, when they tried those 4-door Monte Carlo concepts? Considering the 4-door T-bird wasn't that popular, and was ultimately dropped, that might have been what made GM give up on the 4-door Monte.

stickguy

I like that SS wagon. A crate 350EFI and 6 speed Tremec, modern suspension steering and brakes, and good seats. Ready to go!

andre1969

Hmm, apparently if you take the whole front clip, and swap the doors as well, these cars are a bit more interchangeable than I thought. Here, someone saw fit to mate a Cutlass Supreme with an El Camino.


It doesn't quite work, as the side creases were different, so the two don't line up where the door meets the rear quarter. But still, it fits better than I thought it would. I'd always heard the personal luxury coupes were a bit narrower than the regular coupes and sedans, but that could have simply been the doors being more slab-sided.

I do remember my '82 Cutlass Supreme and '86 Monte Carlo were a bit narrower inside than my '80 Malibu was. You could see it in the gap between the edges of the dashboard and the door panels. That could have just been a matter of the Malibu having less padding, though, and the other two being a bit more ritzy.

This is also a low-res pic, so it's possible that the area where the back edge of the door and the rear quarter join together might look sloppier in person.

fintail

I've never heard of the Isuzu-Buick diesel connection either. Isuzu does have a long diesel history, and was close with GM for some time, so it could be true.

More from March 1983:

Odd ad format, quaint use of "R/H" (radio and heater, 1950s ad terminology):



Deals to be had:



This prediction was done around 8 years later:

stickguy

well, back in the mid-80s they were Buick-Opel dealers and in 1976 opel became "Opel by Isuzu". Not sure how much of Isuzu GM owned but they definitely would have had access to their diesel motor expertise.

and that GTI lease in the ad. Terrible. total payments only $200 less than the cap cost, and that is before the 50%ish residual. pay for the whole car in 4 years, then give it back!

fintail

I laughed at that lease. Even at 11.9%, the payment over 4 years would only be $229.20.

uplanderguy

One last thing about the bumper strips on seventies GM cars--I'm liking how the '76 had the double white stripes instead of the single one in the middle.

I'm reminded from this pic that the Monte was the only one of the four GM specialty coupes available with the swivel bucket seats, although other than easier access to the back seat I think living with them would be a pain. I'd have chosen one of the optional split bench seat interiors on a Monte.

A positive about the Monte, from '73 to '80, was every single one of them had the bigger, wider tires and sport suspension standard equipment. I wish they wouldn't have dropped that for '81 although they were optional.

ab348

fintail said:

Deals to be had:

I actually feel sorry for whomever ended up taking whatever deal they could make on that wagon. And that interest rate...

benjaminh

On a recent walk in Seattle I saw this Thunderbird.

sda

66 Thunderbird. Doesn’t look bad though the front bumper is tweaked. The car hasn’t moved in a while.

kyfdx

A four year lease in 1983? I can't remember any dealer offering leases in our area, at that time.