I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

stickguy

passed a karman ghia convertible today driving around. top down. Red.

roadburner

uplanderguy said:

Speaking of poor parking....a huge peeve of mine....I posted this local photo I took, on my FB page a couple days ago. Sheesh.

Well, it IS a base F30 3er- a definite snoozemobile.

fintail

sda said:

I liked the bustle back Continental. It was less severe and had softer contours than the Seville. Two tone black and burgundy rocked. I also liked the bustle back Imperial as a two door. It had crisp lines, hidden lamps and crystal cut Chrysler pentagons. Too bad the fuel injection on it was awful. The Seville with the 368 V8 is the one to have.

The bustleback Imperial is cool in its own way. I recall the Frank Sinatra edition was also in an excellent shade of blue. Seldom see those anymore, even in for sale ads.

My uncle had a Chrysler E-class with the "crystal" pentastar hood ornament, but no doubt it was lucite or something.

uplanderguy

andre, it's been answered already I see, but that "Edible" store is "Edible Arrangements", fruit. I never pay attention to it even as it's right next door to my regular donut stop, "Stow Nut" (in Stow, OH).

The mild bustleback Continental has one styling feature that irks me, as seen on other Fords of that era: that line of plastic or fiberglass trim that covers a horizontal seam right at eye level on the C-pillar. If they'd have just filled that in, would've looked cleaner.

Well, to be honest, I'm assuming there's a seam there. It could be just a styling feature I guess.

uplanderguy

Andre, I just read an article from '57 comparing Chevy, Ford, and Plymouth. They mention Plymouth not having a 'Park' position. Is your DeSoto that way as well? I remember Corvairs and Tempests not having a 'Park' position. I'd think someone going from another car to one like that could potentially not apply the parking brake...(e.g., perhaps a wife!).

Of course back then, one family car was most likely the norm.

uplanderguy

stickguy mentioned a Karmann Ghia.

My wife loves those and has wanted one for a couple decades. She reminds me of that semi-regularly!

stickguy

the Freighliner I used to rent a lot from Ryder did not have park. It was actually quite weird. You just put it in Neutral and set the air parking brake. Not sure though if you could even leave it in gear when you turned it off. Not sure I ever tried that, but maybe it would work?

explorerx4

Made me smile while listening.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reEuJBjeeb8

fintail

Those big 70s Squires make me think of this:

https://youtu.be/1eXSIsNS4tw

ab348

"Ford Blue" is usually used to refer to the color they painted their engines, but it really should have been used for that powder blue body paint color that so many Fords had. It's a color that I really like for some reason I can't determine.

tjc78

@fintail said:
The bustleback Imperial is cool in its own way. I recall the Frank Sinatra edition was also in an excellent shade of blue. Seldom see those anymore, even in for sale ads.

My uncle had a Chrysler E-class with the "crystal" pentastar hood ornament, but no doubt it was lucite or something.

My 79 Town Coupe was a very similar blue to the Sinatra Imperial. Those really got hurt from the awful fuel system Chrysler installed. There was a campaign to owners that would convert the car back to a regular carb. I’d wager most were done.

My Stepdad had an 83 Eclass white over blue with the Mitsu 2.6. He bought it around 1991 from the proverbial old lady who barely drove it. It had something like 30000 miles. He drove it until he got his 95 Neon and it still didn’t have a 100K. I largely learned to drive on it. I remember it having awesome original R12 AC and a non digital radio.

Michaell

@fintail - Nice Price or No Dice?

stickguy

I love the colors. I would not mind one if it had a manual trans too!

though reading the details, this one is going to take some serious love to get it up to snuff. Smells like a potential rabbit hole of body strip/rust repair/paint, and an engine rebuild. plus all the ancillary stuff. But they are sturdy, relatively basic cars by modern standards.

gorgeous, timeless design too, in and out.

Michaell

stickguy said:

I love the colors. I would not mind one if it had a manual trans too!

though reading the details, this one is going to take some serious love to get it up to snuff. Smells like a potential rabbit hole of body strip/rust repair/paint, and an engine rebuild. plus all the ancillary stuff. But they are sturdy, relatively basic cars by modern standards.

gorgeous, timeless design too, in and out.

Yeah, the colors are what attracted me to it, initially.

And, I agree, it's going to need some love - and a fair amount of $$$ - to make it worthy of a Cars and Coffee. I wouldn't be looking for a 100 point restoration, just enough to use it irregularly, like @fintail does with his.

stickguy

current bid of $570 seems reasonable enough to me!

ab348

I have no idea what it would be like to drive if it were 100%, and an older Benz would always have the risk of being a money pit, but that is a nicely-trimmed car.

fintail

123s can rust, so it warrants inspection. Plus side is that it is a fairly simple car, lots of easy DIY projects. I'd cars & coffee it as-is, although most who aren't MB devotees won't care about its grey market spec (the 4cyl gas W123 was never officially sold in the US or Canada). Looks like a nice enough car if you could pick it up for the right price.

Michaell said:

@fintail - Nice Price or No Dice?

fintail

I think my uncle's was an 84, I don't recall the engine but maybe the same. I recall the color combo, which I think was a kind of pale yellow with a tan/beige/gold interior, something out of that precise moment in time. It was eventually replaced by his early Taurus L (absolutely no brand loyalty there, very open-minded when it comes to cars, he currently drives a Honda Fit).

tjc78 said:

@fintail said:

The bustleback Imperial is cool in its own way. I recall the Frank Sinatra edition was also in an excellent shade of blue. Seldom see those anymore, even in for sale ads.

My uncle had a Chrysler E-class with the "crystal" pentastar hood ornament, but no doubt it was lucite or something.

My 79 Town Coupe was a very similar blue to the Sinatra Imperial. Those really got hurt from the awful fuel system Chrysler installed. There was a campaign to owners that would convert the car back to a regular carb. I’d wager most were done.

My Stepdad had an 83 Eclass white over blue with the Mitsu 2.6. He bought it around 1991 from the proverbial old lady who barely drove it. It had something like 30000 miles. He drove it until he got his 95 Neon and it still didn’t have a 100K. I largely learned to drive on it. I remember it having awesome original R12 AC and a non digital radio.

jpp75

andre1969 said:

Heck, nowadays there's probably some non-Pontiac people that don't even know what a Pontiac is!

As for rarity, none of my cars have ever been anything you'd call utra-scarce. I always found it amusing though, that the rarest car I ever owned was a 1989 Gran Fury. They only made 4,985 that year. For comparison, they made 10,033 '67 Catalina convertibles, 12,179 '57 DeSoto Firedome hardtop coupes, 14,757 '76 Pontiac Grand LeMans coupes, and 54,640 '79 New Yorkers, of which I've heard about 15000 had the 5th Avenue package.

The Gran Fury just seemed so everywhere, for awhile though, so it's weird to think of it as being scarce. However, most of them were police cars and taxis, so you tended to see them out and about all the time. And the Gran Fury looked the same from '82-89. On top of that, unless you really know what to look for, the Dodge Diplomat was identical, and it looked the same from '80-89.

I haven't driven a 2-speed car in ages. I think the last one was a 1958 DeSoto Firesweep 4-door, and that was way back in 1995. It had a 350-2bbl with 280 hp. It was for sale by a somewhat local guy, who lived up north of Baltimore, and had a fetish for '59 DeSotos. I could've gotten this '58 for like $800 or so at the time, but someone beat me to it. Probably for the best, as I was really too young to be building up a fleet of cars back then. In college, I remember driving a '68 Impala 4-door hardtop with a 307 and Powerglide that was for sale at a little used car lot. They both seemed adequate, but I also didn't try pushing either one to the limit.

One bit of trivia that always fascinated me on the last year or two of the Diplomat and Gran Fury is how Chrysler fitted them with a driver's side air bag. Obviously that was a key selling point for Chrysler, offering a driver's air bag long before it was required on all models, but I always found it curious they took the time/money/resources to modify those models to accommodate the air bag.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

Andre, I just read an article from '57 comparing Chevy, Ford, and Plymouth. They mention Plymouth not having a 'Park' position. Is your DeSoto that way as well? I remember Corvairs and Tempests not having a 'Park' position. I'd think someone going from another car to one like that could potentially not apply the parking brake...(e.g., perhaps a wife!).

Of course back then, one family car was most likely the norm.

Right, no actual "Park" There's just the pod that houses the pushbuttons, with the first row being "R N D" and "1" and "2" below. To put it in "Park", I was always told to put it in neutral, and put on the parking brake, but I'm wondering if it would have been better to leave it in gear, so if something happened, it wouldn't roll away so easily?

Also, the parking brake clamps down on the driveshaft itself, instead of using the rear brakes. And, I don't know if this is true or not, but years ago, someone told me that when these cars were new, they came with a rubber triangular wheel chock, that you could shove under a tire, for when you were parked on steep hills.

At some point, I think the government forced Chrysler to add a "Park" (I doubt they would have done it of their own free will), but it was just a lever that you shoved into position.

When the mechanic re-did my DeSoto, he replaced the whole rear-end out of a unit from a 1970-74 E-body (Barracuda/Challenger), and re-worked it so the parking brake pulls on the rear wheel brakes, rather than clamping down on the driveshaft. It also got rid of those annoying drums that needed a special wheel puller tool to get them on and off. Oh, and they're also self-adjusting...a little feature that the original Forward Look cars didn't have. You had to actually adjust the brakes yourself every so often.

andre1969

jpp75 said:

One bit of trivia that always fascinated me on the last year or two of the Diplomat and Gran Fury is how Chrysler fitted them with a driver's side air bag. Obviously that was a key selling point for Chrysler, offering a driver's air bag long before it was required on all models, but I always found it curious they took the time/money/resources to modify those models to accommodate the air bag.

Yep, I thought that was kind of a cool feature, that mine had. I heard that Chrysler actually started making a driver's side airbag standard on all cars in 1988, but I had an '88 LeBaron coupe with wasn't so equipped. I wonder if, maybe it was a mid-1988 change?

I always thought it was interesting too, that they went through the effort, but maybe it wasn't as big of a deal as I thought? IIRC, it used the same steering wheel that the K-cars used, so maybe it wasn't that much more expensive to just install some wiring and sensors, to make it all work?

One nice feature though, was that it was a tilt wheel. I once drove a Mazda 929 with an airbag, but the wheel did not tilt. The salesman told me that was because it had an airbag, you couldn't have a tilt wheel. Oh, how I wish I knew about Chrysler's tilt steering, with an airbag at the time, but I didn't buy the Gran Fury until 5 or 6 years after I looked at that Mazda. It would've have been interesting to see his defense of the 929, after confronted with the fact that even a "lowly" Plymouth had it.

Sometimes I wish Chrysler had kept up with improvements to the M-body, and let it run a few years longer, but, realistically, the only people buying Diplomats and Gran Furys were taxi/police and other fleet buyers. The 5th Ave actually broke 100K units in 1985 and 1986, but then began to taper off. I think lack of a 4-speed automatic is what really did these cars in. At some point, that actually triggered a gas guzzler tax that was either $500 or $1000, I forget which. A 5th Avenue buyer might not care about that, but I'm sure it would've been a deal killer for something in the Gran Fury/Diplomat price point. Oh, and despite only being rated at 140 hp, the 318 required premium fuel, which I never could understand. I could understand it in my car, which was an ex-police car that was hopped up a bit (4-bbl carb, 175 hp), but in a mundane, everyday car, and one that's not even very powerful for its displacement, it just seems like another unnecessary cost.

sda

A friend’s parents were loyal Chrysler customers. From the 1950s onward, only Chrysler products. In the late 80s, both bought new, an 86 New Yorker Fifth Ave, lipstick red exterior, red leather, wire wheel covers, I assume the 318. An 87 Sundance 4dr (5dr?), white, red interior 2.2. auto, a/c. I rode in both and loved the soft supple red leather in the NY and found the cloth very nice in the Sundance. I never heard any complaints about either but in 92 the NY was traded for a new Camry V6 fully loaded XLE , the Sundance sold as they were retired and only needed one car. The Camry later traded for a loaded Avalon. Their daughter traded her Chevy for a Camry LE and her husband his Ford Ranger for a Toyota RAV-4. Unfortunately the parents have since passed but my friends remain married to Toyota.

andre1969

One of my relatives had a 5th Ave, but I can't remember the year. His wife was involved in a pretty major, multiple car accident on the highway. Supposedly, the 5th Ave was the only car that was still driveable, but it was still totaled.

He replaced it with an Eagle Premier. I can't remember the fate of that one, but I don't think it stayed around long. I know it started having problems almost immediately. He died of Type 1 diabetes complications not too long after buying it, but I can't remember if he got rid of it before he died, or if his wife ended up ditching it.

And yeah, by '86 a 5th Ave would've been standard 318. The 225 slant six was standard through 1983, with the 318 being optional. But, the slant six only had like 90 hp. There wasn't much difference in the EPA estimates, and the 318 often got better mileage in the real world because it didn't have to strain as hard, so most buyers were probably ordering it.

In 1984, the 318 was standard. It only had 130 hp, and I think 245 lb of torque. It was revised for '85, with 140 hp and 265 lb. However, according to a Mopar police car book I have at least, it was slower in 0-60 in in the quarter mile. However, it was quicker from 0-100 and had a top speed of around 116 mph, vs 106 for the 1984. In police cars with the 4-bbl (a lot of police cars were just 2-bbl), the 318 went from 165 to 175 hp and torque went from 240 to 250 ft-lb, but acceleration managed to be worse in every category (0-60, quarter mile time and speed, 0-100, and top speed).

tjc78

There isn’t an 80s Chrysler that I haven’t had some seat time way back when I was a kid due to my Uncle running a dealership. They were all very nice cars for the time. Naturally I was drawn toward anything with a digital dash and the radio that had the EQ.

My neighbor had an 86 Fifth Ave white over the red tufted leather. He put 250K miles on it and eventually swapped it for a Grand Marquis. I remember driving it a few times. Definitely drove much different from my 89 Grand Marquis. I too agree a four speed trans would have helped immensely. They could have put lower gears out back to help it get off the line better. My GM felt much faster.

One thing about those Fifth Aves was they really were light on options. No full auto temp, trip computer, premium stereo (that rear amp thing was not good), auto headlights etc. Ford and GMs full size cars could be had with many more options. In Ford’s case after 86 sequential fuel injection was standard. No real secret why the Panthers sold so well.

tjc78

@andre1969
Did the 80s Fury or Diplomat police cars ever get the 360 or was that gone by then?

andre1969

I'm pretty sure the Diplomat/Gran Fury police cars never got the 360, but I could be wrong. In 1980, the Michigan State Police tested an R-body Gran Fury and St. Regis, both with 360-4bbls. They also tested a St. Regis with a 318-4bbl. In smaller cars they tested two Aspens and a Volare. The Volare had a 318-4bbl while the Aspens had one of each.

I have a feeling there was no M-body police car for '80, since the Aspen/Volare served the smaller end of the segment. For '81, the Aspen/Volare went away and the Diplomat and, believe it or not, LeBaron, was the "small" police package. Also for 1981, the 360 went away completely in passenger car use, although I've heard that if you "knew the right people", you could still order one. I also heard they made a couple of '81 New Yorkers with the 360, for Chrysler executives, but that could be an old wive's tale.

In '77-79, you could get a 360 in a Diplomat or LeBaron, including the 4-bbl model. In '79 at least, I think it basically was the copcar 360, but they sold it under the guise of a "Heavy duty trailering package".

One thing that's kind of interesting, for 1980, there doesn't seem to be much difference in performance in an R-body police car vs an F-body (Aspen/Volare), when comparing the same engines. For instance, with the 360-4bbl, the Michigan State Police got 0-60 in 11.3 seconds with the Gran Fury, 11.5 with the St. Regis, and 10.9 with the Aspen.

With the 318-4bbl, they got 0-60 in 13.1 seconds for the St. Regis, 12.6 with the Volare, and 13.2 with the Aspen. I would think an Aspen/Volare, being a good deal lighter, would have been a bit quicker than that. But, I guess they could have played around with axle ratios and made them taller on the smaller cars.

tjc78

Pretty similar with the Fords too IIRC the slightly larger engines weren’t worth it. I think you could get the 351 until 91, but it was carbed so the take rate was low.

explorerx4

Across the state road from our dev, a two tone white/orange 55 Chevy for sale.
I saw it on road one time and I don't think it has turn signals. The driver was using motorcycle type arm motions to signal a turn.

fintail

Shadow/Sundance, those seem to be nearly extinct now.

I recall back in the day, my aunt and uncle (who had the bustleback Continental) had a late run (this was maybe 1994) Shadow as a tow-behind for their leviathan motorhome. I rode in it once, I recall it was an airbag car, and was pretty basic, but little else. I called it "the dinghy". I seem to remember my dad talking about looking at a Sundance when they debuted, as he liked his Horizon, but nothing came of it. In the early 00s my brother had a V6 Sundance Duster as a used car, a very 90s blue-green with gold accented wheels, it suffered some kind of terminal mechanical fault, and he let it go.

sda said:

A friend’s parents were loyal Chrysler customers. From the 1950s onward, only Chrysler products. In the late 80s, both bought new, an 86 New Yorker Fifth Ave, lipstick red exterior, red leather, wire wheel covers, I assume the 318. An 87 Sundance 4dr (5dr?), white, red interior 2.2. auto, a/c. I rode in both and loved the soft supple red leather in the NY and found the cloth very nice in the Sundance. I never heard any complaints about either but in 92 the NY was traded for a new Camry V6 fully loaded XLE , the Sundance sold as they were retired and only needed one car. The Camry later traded for a loaded Avalon. Their daughter traded her Chevy for a Camry LE and her husband his Ford Ranger for a Toyota RAV-4. Unfortunately the parents have since passed but my friends remain married to Toyota.

Michaell

My dad had 2 (perhaps more) Diplomats when he switched over to Fire Cause Investigation around 1980. Unmarked, but police spec - vinyl seats, I suspect the 318 engine. One was light blue, and I can't remember the color of the other one.

He retired in 1991, so he (and the city) kept them running for a good long time.

andre1969

I just did a quick spot check in this copcar book of mine. For 1989, the last year it really has a comprehensive list of MSP police car tests. The 302 did 0-60 in 12.39 seconds, quarter mile in 18.77@74.28 mph, 0-100 in 42.14, and topped out at 110 mph.

The 351-2bbl did 0-60 in 11.98, quarter mile in 18.86@77.05 mph, 0-100 in 36.55 seconds, and topped out at 119.1 mph. It does seem odd to me, that the 351 was a bit quicker from 0-60, but when the quarter mile came up it took just a bit longer, even if the car was going a bit faster. I wonder if this means the 351 was really sluggish at lower speeds, say 0-30 or 0-45, but then started to catch its wind, so it caught up to the 302 really fast, and eventually surpassed it?

sda

If the Aspen with the 318 4bbl, which I didn’t know existed even in police form, did 0-60 in 13ish sec, I guess the New Yorker would be closer to 15 sec? Grim times.

tjc78

@andre1969 said:
I just did a quick spot check in this copcar book of mine. For 1989, the last year it really has a comprehensive list of MSP police car tests. The 302 did 0-60 in 12.39 seconds, quarter mile in 18.77@74.28 mph, 0-100 in 42.14, and topped out at 110 mph.

The 351-2bbl did 0-60 in 11.98, quarter mile in 18.86@77.05 mph, 0-100 in 36.55 seconds, and topped out at 119.1 mph. It does seem odd to me, that the 351 was a bit quicker from 0-60, but when the quarter mile came up it took just a bit longer, even if the car was going a bit faster. I wonder if this means the 351 was really sluggish at lower speeds, say 0-30 or 0-45, but then started to catch its wind, so it caught up to the 302 really fast, and eventually surpassed it?

The top speed surprises me. Probably no way to know if they had the same rear end ratio which can definitely change things. I can testify a civilian 89 will do 110 with 3.08s out back.

tjc78

RE: Shadow/Sundance

My Dad had a fully loaded 87 Turbo black over grey. It was good him and he had that until he passed in 92.

My Aunt had a 94 ES 3.0 V6 Hunter Green over beige with gold accents. It wasn’t that great and went through two transmissions under warranty. Hers was pretty loaded up with the Infinity stereo and power seat. Both were pretty rare options on those.

sda

The dealer that I bought my 84 Horizon SE from had a white and a red Sundance turbo. Both had the gray cloth interior, fully loaded, pop up sunroof, 5sp. I toyed with trading my Horizon for one of them but was torn on what color to choose. I drove the red one and there was an abruptness to the engine and transmission that I didn’t care for and the shifter felt stiff and notchy. I thought my Horizon shifted and drove better. Looking back it may have been turbo lag that I experienced. No surprise, the dealer low balled my Horizon and I didn’t feel like trying to bargain.

andre1969

sda said:

If the Aspen with the 318 4bbl, which I didn’t know existed even in police form, did 0-60 in 13ish sec, I guess the New Yorker would be closer to 15 sec? Grim times.

Either Motortrend or C&D tested a 1980 New Yorker, with the 318-2bbl. That year it only had 120 hp. They got 0-60 in 14.1 seconds, which all things considered doesn't sound too hideous to me. I believe it had a 2.45:1 axle. Consumer Guide tested a 1980 Volare or Aspen with the 318-2, and oddly, got 0-60 in around the same time. In this case though, the Consumer Guide car was using something like a 2.24 or 2.26:1, so that probably offset the weight advantage.

In 1981, Chrysler changed the first and second gear ratio in the transmission, to cope with those taller rear ends, although the police cars with the 318-4bbl/2.94:1 axle used the original ratios. The original ratios were 2.45:1 for first and 1.45:1 for second. The quicker ratios were 2.74:1 for first and 1.54:1 for second.

I don't think I've ever seen a 0-60 time for your typical 1980's M-body 5th Avenue. Consumer Reports tested a 1985, and compared it to a Grand Marquis and a newly downsized Electra. They didn't actually show the 0-60 times, but rated the Grand Marquis' acceleration as "excellent" and the other two "better than average" so I don't think that generation of 5th Ave would've been too miserable.

This is extrapolating a bit, but Consumer Guide got 0-60 in 12.2 seconds out of an '85 Electra and 12.0 out of an '85 Ninety-Eight, both with the 125 hp 3.8. So if CR's Electra performed similar, and the 5th Ave performed similar to that, I'd guess 0-60 in around 12-13 seconds? Consumer Guide also tested a Grand Marquis with the 2.73:1 axle. They didn't list a 0-60 time, but did rate it 4 out of 5, which was in league with the Ninety-Eight/Electra. They also tested a Crown Vic, with the 3.55:1 axle, and got 0-60 in 10.5. It was also rated a 4/5. Oddly, the Crown Vic, despite that quicker gearing, got better economy than the Grand Marquis!

Back to the 318-4bbl for a moment. In 1984, the Michigan State Police managed to get its 0-60 down to 10.88 seconds, and had a top speed of 121.4. They tested one with a 318-2bbl, and its 0-60 was 13.11 seconds, with a top speed of 105.3 mph.

By that time, I think the Impala was starting to become everybody's darling, but it wasn't that much quicker from 0-60 (10.3 seconds). It was a bit slower from 0-100 compared to the 4-bbl Gran Fury (37.18 seconds vs 24.43) and had a lower top speed (116.4 vs 121.4).

With Fords in '84, the 351 was still the way to go, if you wanted performance. The 351-2bbl did 0-60 in 12.45, 0-100 in 40.36, and topped out at 118.1. Meanwhile the 302 did 0-60 in 14.39 seconds. They didn't list a 0-100 time, but it topped out at 100.5, which seems odd to me.

I think the Michigan State Police times might be slow, compared to what you'd see in MT or C&D, though. From what I've heard, I think they just put two heavy cops in the car, and then run it one way down a test track and then run it back, and take the average, to account for wind and such. I also don't think they tested them with a light bar on the roof. And they didn't do any of those launch tricks, like "Power Braking" and such. For 1984, they tested a fox-based LTD with the 302, and got 0-60 in 10.29 seconds. Motortrend got 9.09 seconds out of an LTD LX, which was basically the civilian version of that car.

sda

It's funny dad didn’t complain about the acceleration of his 79 Eldorado diesel, though his was the earlier 120hp vs the later 105hp engines. He did complain his 85 Mercury
Grand Marquis was slow. 14 seconds to 60 sounds about right. Perhaps it was a combination of lower torque at lower revs and the 4sp OD transmission. The Eldo had a 3 sp auto and didn't have the lock up torque converter. Dad learned to put the GM in D instead of OD when doing city driving which helped somewhat. He drove the GM for 8 years before trading it on a new 95 Cutlass Ciera SL 2.

andre1969

I looked at this site: https://www.zeroto60times.com/1970s-car-0-60-specs/
and found...
1979 Cadillac Eldorado 0-60 mph 9.7, Quarter mile 17.7
1979 Cadillac Eldorado Diesel 0-60 mph 15.2, Quarter mile 19.8

So, all things considered, the Diesel wasn't THAT bad in 1979. I suspect that when the 105 hp version came out, in the Eldorado the axle ratio went from a 2.56:1 to a 2.41:1, so that probably hut a bit, as well.
When they went to the 4-speed automatic they used a 3.15:1, so that might have helped, somewhat in the later years, although those Diesels were always dogs. I was actually shocked to see that 0-60 in 15.2! I'm used to seeing 0-60 times more like 18-21 seconds!

ab348

My only experience with a Sundance was around 1990 when I test drove a new one. I thought it might be a good size for me and the hatch might be useful. What I remember about the test drive was that it felt flimsy, for want of a better word, like the body needed more stiffness, and the various controls like the turn signal stalk and some switches felt cheap.

It's too bad because I liked the Chrysler design idiom in the late '80s/early '90s, especially the way their interiors were trimmed and designed. I recall having a Dodge Spirit for a rental for a couple of days one time and really liked how it drove, but I didn't like the boxy styling and didn't want a 4-door sedan.

Michaell

Help with grille ID needed

andre1969

I answered over there, but it's a '61 Ford full-size. Most likely a Galaxie.

andre1969

I actually liked the LeBaron GTS and Lancer. Even though they were hatchbacks, they disguised that fact a bit, and as far as 4-door K-cars go, were kinda sexy. The Acclaim and Spirit were nice, too. A bit on the conservative side perhaps, but I thought they were pleasant enough. They had pretty good legroom too, as I recall. They were too narrow for 3-across seating, but would have been good for four good-sized adults.

sda

I thought both the Lancer and LeBaron GTS were sharp. I especially liked the more european themed version in dark maroon or black, dark red, maroon leather interior, sunroof, turbo, 5sp. They did get pricey like that though I imagine a discount was readily given.

andre1969

I know Uplanderguy doesn't like these things at all, but I have to admit a perverse fascination with them...This is from a post in the Malaise Motors page on facebook. Apparently it's for sale, for $4K asking. The pics were taken from the for sale post, but no link to the actual ad. Here's the interior...
I gotta say, I'm really digging the color. It makes me think just a bit of the light Jadestone of my old '82 Cutlass Supreme coupe, just not quite as tasteful. But, I don't know that I'm masochist enough to put up with the 4-cyl! Dumb question: what's that belt-driven thing on the passenger side partly obscured by the upper radiator hose? It looks like it has coolant hoses running in and out of it? At first I thought maybe it had a/c, when I saw that thin tube that bends in front of the timing belt cover, but I think that's the fuel line. Would the 2.3 4-cyl even be offered with a/c in a car this size?

I was thinking maybe that thing could be some kind of smog pump, but a smog pump wouldn't have coolant hoses, as far as I know.

tjc78

Ha ha I forgot to say my Dad’s 87 Shadow was a 5speed manual. Probably why he didn’t have any issues.

fintail

I expect that Granada coupe has a stalk-mounted horn just to add insult to injury. I bet 0-60 in that thing is a blast with the 4 (but a V8 swap would be simple enough, talk about a sleeper).

uplanderguy

I like that color and don't remember it at all.

The rental I had when my '81 Monte Carlo was stolen, was a pale yellow Mercury Cougar of the near-identical styling.

I've mentioned this, but I always detested the horizontal filler on the C-pillar, and the car I had had four lug nuts per wheel. I know this because it was missing a wheel cover and on that wheel it had only three lug nuts.

It felt decidedly downmarket from a Monte Carlo, but then of course I grew up GM.

sda

fintail said:

I expect that Granada coupe has a stalk-mounted horn just to add insult to injury. I bet 0-60 in that thing is a blast with the 4 (but a V8 swap would be simple enough, talk about a sleeper).

As I'm sure you know the horn button on the end of the turn signal stalk was common on european or at least French cars. IIRC that was the set up on Renault and Peugeot. During that period there was a lot of emphasis from US auto manufacturers to emulate european cars, (looks, cladding, blacked out trim, red back lit instruments, controls like finally placing the dimmer switch on the turn signal stalk instead of having a floor mounted button).

explorerx4

@andre1969,
I see a lot of familiar Fox body under that hood.
Don't see any reason you couldn't get AC on a car wit the 2.3.

laurasdada

Perhaps not a classic, but relatively obscure: I spotted two Jaguar I-Pace in the past two days!