I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

Iacocca went to Chrysler in late 1978, I believe, although the first real fruits of his tenure didn't show up until the 1981 Aries/Reliant K-cars, and I guess the 1981 Imperial, as well.

I think the K-cars were pretty good with rust resistance, as well. In the late 70's though, Chrysler rust resistance was terribly spotty. The 1976 Aspen/Volare were some of the worst, but somehow, the Diplomat/LeBaron, which were on the same design and came out in mid-1977, were pretty solid cars. It was also around that time that the Aspen/Volare did improve, though. The 1978 Omni/Horizon were pretty good, with regards to rust proofing, but then the 1979 Newport/New Yorker/St. Regis really weren't I had a '79 Newport, and it was getting some pretty bad rust on it when I had it, although to be fair it was late 1996 when I got ahold of it, and I bought it from a junkyard. I have two '79 New Yorkers now. One of them is virtually rust-free, but the other one is rusting pretty badly along the rear edge of the trunk.

The 1980 Dodge MIrada and Chrysler Cordoba seemed really bad when it came to rust resistance as well. I think 1979-80 were about as bad as it got for the Chrysler corporation though, as that was about the timeframe they needed the gov't guaranteed loans. They were fast running out of money for any truly new products. The New Yorker/St. Regis etc were actually heavily modified 1971-79 intermediates, while the Mirada/Cordoba was yet another design based on the Aspen/Volare. I guess at this point, they were trying to save up all their resources for the K-car, which was going to be the foundation for their revival.

The 1981 Imperial, which was yet another Aspen/Volare based design, was actually a pretty well-built car. Well, except for its troublesome fuel injection. And then from 1982 onward, I think everything that Chrysler came out with was pretty good with respect to rust resistance.

I guess nowadays, rust problems are almost a thing of the past. My newest car is a 2000 Dodge Intrepid. It has a few nicks here and there that have gone right to bare metal, as well as a deep gouge in the spare tire well when I backed over the remnants of a metal sign post that was sticking up in the weeds. None of those exposures have shown even the slightest signs of rust. I imagine that car will ultimately go to the junkyard virtually rust-free.

fintail

My dad had a 4-door Horizon, I don't recall him ever mentioning rust in regards to that car. That was one of his favorite cars...it really didn't have many problems at all, he thought it handled decently, and he always swore it was the best 2WD snow car he ever experienced.

hpmctorque

"...the Chevette, Omni/Horizon, and Escort were all "world cars..."

The Chevette was a rebadged Opel. In addition to being manufactured in Germany and sold in many countries, it was also produced in Brazil and sold as an Opel there, and in other Latin American countries.

As far as the Omni/Horizon is concerned, it used a VW 1.7 engine initially, then a Peugeot 1.6, and finally the Chrysler 2.2. I don't recall it being a world car, though, unless its platform was shared with Simca of France, which was owned by Chrysler for a period. That's possible, in which case it may indeed have been a world car, because the Simca was sold in several countries.

The Escort was supposed to be a world car, but due to political issues between Dearborn and Ford of Europe, the domestic and European Escorts shared little more than the name.

andys120

The Omnirizon was sold in Europe as a Simca, a Talbot and a Chrysler.

Talbot Horizon photo.

Edit: I checked Wikipedia
which says the Horizon was originally designed by Chrysler's Simca subsidiary.

Given the high profile of Peugeot in Africa I'd be surprised in the Talbot version wasn't sold there as well.

andre1969

I spotted a couple of 70's relics. First up was a circa 1973 Ford LTD, 4-door with the slim B-pillar. It was a grayish color with a burgundy vinyl top, and in nice shape. A young guy, maybe early 20's, was driving it.

Next up was a '77-79 T-bird in sort of an "arrest me red" color that really didn't suit the car. IMO these things really need to be more "upscale" colors, like perhaps a burgundy metallic? It was in pretty good shape, and also driven by a fairly young guy.

Maybe the 20-somethings are finally starting to get into these types of cars?

alko1

The first place it started rusting? Around the holes that were drilled in the door sills to apply the rust-proofing..

I don't recall ever seeing any objective tests to prove or disprove Ziebart's effectiveness.

CU did long term tests in the early 80's, and found no effectiveness in those treatments.

That's what Consumer Reports said way back then. That drilling holes would indeed accelerate the rust process. Admittedly I get my views from what CU recommended and while there may have been some minor positive effect from the rustproofing biz, it was never worth the cost, nor was it ever shown to be effective in any of CU's long term tests. Cars that were washed regularly, were garaged, or came from dry climates survived. The others disintegrated regarless of those aftermarket treatments.

lemko

...bought a do-it-yourself rustproof kit back in the early 1970s. I think it was made by Duro. He used it on his 1970 Ford Torino which I recall didn't rust at all. Must've worked. His 1972 Ford LTD, however, rusted with a vengenance. By 1981, the body was pretty much gone! He sold it to some kids for $150.

explorerx4

late 80's early 90's lincolns during my trip from ct to sw ohio and back.
all in good shape and driven by nice old couples.
no cadillacs.?
also a 70's(?) toyota or datsun camper conversion. it had dually rear wheels and the camper portion extended over the top of the cab. the door in the back looked about 4 feet tall.

andre1969

I knew of a company called Dolphin that used to make minimotorhomes based on the compact Toyota pickup. Toyota actually offered that thing in a 1-ton chassis/cab model, which I always though was impressive. With just about anybody else, you'd have to get a full-sized pickup if you wanted a 1-ton.

Turns out there were a variety of companies that used Toyota trucks as their basis: http://www.toyotamotorhomes.com/manufacturers.htm

magnette

Ty Cobb ? Most people here don't even know who Babe Ruth was - baseball is about as popular here as cricket probably is with you... His car looked interesting, in a funny sort of way, but I don't think it would sell here on provenance.

Saw a Citroen SM today - nice car, although they look better with the glazed triple headlights on Euro models, rather than the ones shown here, which are presumably some sort of US market requirement...

What I didn't get was the comment about the Mercedes Benz being too scruffy for car shows. OK, it may not get into Pebble Beach, but here we get cars turning up at shows in primer paint, with bits missing, etc - nobody minds, as long as they turn up - they just don't enter them for judging for concours prizes...

fintail

I remember the Dolphin models too...when I was a little kid I actually thought those mini-motorhomes were somehow cool....not sure why.

I had a Hot Wheels called "Minitrek" that I always thought was supposed to be some kind of Toyota based small motorhome kind of thing, but I have never heard of a real one.

fintail

There are very few cases where DOT headlights look good.

I'll admit I have been a little hesitant to take my fintail to any MB events, as it has its share of cosmetic needs and is far from perfect. But then I realize there's a good chance it will be the only fintail there - as they still don't have the following they do on the continent or even England for that matter - and very likely would be the only 220SE, so I feel less conscious of the condition. However, I still have no plans to restore the car, unless a real windfall came my way.

magnette

Went to a classic show today at Knebworth, just North of London. Several hundred cars there, ranging from the usual TR's and MG's through the local Ferrari club, although they were mainly modern ones, to a wide range of old saloons, sports, etc...

Even a Mercedes Benz 300 fintail, it was imported from Singapore, apparently.

Wide range of once common British cars, i.e Singer, Austin, Morris Ford, Vauxhall and Hillman, but also odd ones - HRG, Lanchester, several Bristols, Armstrong-Siddeley - and foreign ones ranging from Alpine-Renault, Goggomobil, NSU and a Matra-Simca Bagheera, but also the more usual VW's, Renaults, Citroens etc..

A couple of Americans too - including an AMC Pacer - the owner thinks his is one of about five in the UK, and it is LHD - none of the horrible converted RHD ones survived - what a surprise...

At some stage I'll download a few photos...

magnette

When/if my Magnette gets going, I'll take it along in whatever condition, as long as I can get there ! Ok, it wouldn't win any prizes, and there will be loads of better cars, but I think people just like to see old cars show up - I doubt it would be the only one there though - there were three today, all looking pretty respectable, so mine wouldn't really look good next to them...

kyfdx

This weekend, I saw one of those Toyota campers, as well.... They were using it as a tailgate vehicle for the Bengals game...

Pretty cool to see that little truck with that big camper on it... Those were very tough little vehicles...

That's when a small truck was a small truck!

boomchek

Watched the movie "Just Married" with Ashton Kutcher and Brittany Murphy. There was a fintail in there that pushed their yellow rental car over the cliff.

Last weekend in downtown I saw a rare (or replica) Ferrari, while I was waiting at a red light, and it was going on green. It looked old but in mint shape, red, similiar body style to the one in Ferris Bueller's day off. This one though I recall had fender vents behind the front wheels. Not sure of the model.

fintail

I've never seen that film...but I looked it up on imcdb - and there it is, a W110 200D. I take it the fintail was driven by bad guys, they always are.

Here's a Ferrari 250GT California Spider of the type similar to the Ferris Bueller car (which of course was fake)



Some other 250 series cars had different fender vents I believe...there are good fakes out there, but I know some good cars are hanging around Van, so it could have been real.

fintail

I like the European/UK show mentality more than here, it seems preserved or original cars are appreciated more back in Europe. Go to the average show here and you'll see a lifetime supply of over-restored 55-57 Chevies and 69 Chevelles etc. The local MB shows here are club-driven, and usually full of late model cars and restored older models. Maybe there should be a movement for less perfect cars.

Was the 300SE you saw a LWB? Post a pic of that if you have one, when you can.

Mr_Shiftright

The British are far more tolerant of exposure to Ferrous Oxide. Americans tend to break out in rashes. :P

andre1969

I've never seen that film...but I looked it up on imcdb - and there it is, a W110 200D. I take it the fintail was driven by bad guys, they always are.

I saw that movie awhile back. IIRC, Ashton Kutcher got their rental car stuck in a snowbank, and they flagged down the fintail. I think it was an old German couple driving, and Ashton got them miffed at him, so they rammed the rental car and pushed it through a snowbank and down into a ravine.

I think Ashton also had a beat-up early 70's Challenger or Barracuda convertible in that movie.

boomchek

I got so excited when I saw it, my wife didn't know what was going on, and my cousin from Poland didn't know what the big deal was as he says there's a ton of them in Poland (he thought I was pointing to a new Beetle convertible)

boomchek

Yeah he was driving a Challenger or a Cuda. The Fintail was dirven by an older woman who got ticked off when he threw a snowball at her to flag her down.

fintail

Tons of vintage Ferraris in Poland eh? Sign me up! :P

Now one of these days I will have to catch a dumb Ashton Kutcher movie just to see a car scene.

magnette

I did take photos of it - thought you might want to see it. I'll sort them out in a few days, but I don't think it was a LWB. It was white, though and looked resprayed.

explorerx4

nice job andre! it looked like the '76 chinook. i also now see that the top pops up to create standing room.

explorerx4

i think i was in ohio when i saw it and at some point i was near cinci! could have been pa, though. i did see it a couple of times.

andys120

I don't think there are a lot of fakes that would go to the extent of duplicating the optional removable H/T, I could be wrong. As for the side vents, those and similar details like bumpers, lights and hood scoops were often changed willy-nilly on Ferraris of that era which were still largely hand-built.

fintail

Oh yeah...I didn't mean the pictured car was fake...that HT is probably worth more than an entire fake car.

lilelvis

I always liked those Chinooks as a kid. Probably because in the 70s they seemed very futuristic - like a lunar exploration vehicle. As a grade schooler, if it looked like a Hot Wheel, rest assured I probably thought it was cool.

andre1969

Back in the 70's and early 80's, as a kid, I was big into motorhomes in general. I swear a lot of them back then seemed more futuristic than they do today! Especially those FWD GMC motorhomes that were based on Toronado mechanicals. Travco and Airstream made some pretty slick motorhomes, too. Nowadays they seem like they're all just big boxes.

Sometimes I think it would still be cool to get a motorhome, but realistically I know it would be a waste of money. I think an old one would be kinda neat, but I guess it would probably combine all the problems of an old car, with all the problems of an old house! Back in 2000, I almost bought a 1974 Travco 220, which looked very similar to this. In retrospect though, I'm glad I backed out!

texases

I went through the motorhome stage, too, luckily I did like you, backed out of a 20-year old one that would have needed lots of work. Nothing beats renting them - use it for a week or two, and you're done. Of course, those that use them monthly are better off buying.

lilelvis

Okay - that's about the coolest thing I have ever seen.

fintail

This might be a fun read for some people here

andre1969

I wonder how big the people are that they used for the interior shot in this Electra ad? Those late 70's Electras were pretty roomy inside, but it doesn't look so spacious in that shot. It also looks like a composite shot though, with some airbrushing thrown in for good measure. I think it's also cute how they stereotypically have an old dude driving who's hunched up over the steering wheel. :shades:

fintail

As opposed to those 50s drawn ads where their representations of people must have all been 4'6".

Mr_Shiftright

What you got was headroom due to the formal roof. Put these guys in the back seat of a Camaro and they'd look like they were in a vise.

andre1969

Oh I know the formal roof definitely helped with headroom...that, and the fact that seats were lower back then. But I still think that picture actually makes the car look SMALLER inside than it really is!

When my grandmother had her '85 LeSabre sedan, which is essentially that Electra with a shorter roofline and 3" less legroom in back, I remember one of her old lady friends said she didn't like it because the seat was so low! I thought that was a bit off, as this lady had a 1975 Monte Carlo and basically, MOST cars had low seats back then!

lemko

I had several of those cars mentioned in the article and LOVED every one of them: 1979 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency, 1979 Buick Electra Park Avenue, and a 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic. There were subtle differences between them and the Park Ave really was nicer than either the Chevrolet or Olds. I would still love to have any of them to this day. "Fake" luxury or not, I'd take any of those cars compared to 90% of what's out there today!

P.S. I have the 1979 Buick brochure from which those pictures of the Electra were taken.

lemko

Chevy Impala! An Impala! The “full-sized” car driven by pipefitters, plumbers, Catholics, and recent immigrants!

Sounds like a lot of people in my old neighborhood when I was a kid.

explorerx4

my 16 year old, who just got her license, had to go to a prior to school starting, student council meeting.
it's a nice evening and i told her she could take the mustang if she wanted to.
my wife kept saying 'you're going to be late, you're going to be late'.
she says 'don't worry mom, when i show up in this, nobody is going to care'.
it's funny, her older sister would rather drive the explorer, but my younger one likes driving the 'stang, although it's kind of a dinosaur.

fintail

Today I am up in Boomchek's neck of the woods for a few days.

Not much interesting on the drive up, as it rained the entire time. 59F and rain almost every day at the end of August, what a summer :sick:

I did see a VW Quantum Syncro in Bellingham (surprise surprise), and in Van I have seen a JDM Skyline and a vinyl-roofed Hyundai Stellar.

Oh, and who needs an economy car when my AMG super-sedan can do this? :shades:

jrosasmc

Pretty impressive.

By the way, how many miles does your AMG sedan currently have?

andre1969

I just discovered that I'm not the only person on the planet who has an unhealthy obsession with these things.

In perusing through his pics, it looks like he actually has TWO 5th Avenues!

And evidently, he even has the Holy Grail of the R-body, the 5th Ave Special Edition. I've been hearing for years about a trim level of New Yorker that was actually above the 5th Ave, but didn't know much about it, except that they built about 1500 of them for 1979, and evidently a handful in 1980. Gotta admit, now that I've actually seen one (presuming this is it), I feel a bit let down. I don't really care for that limousine style rear window. And the pimpy button tufted leather on the interior just looks like the leather you got if you ordered a base NYer with leather, instead of cloth.

He mentions that this thing cost about twice what a regular 5th Ave cost, but I wonder if that's accurate? I think my '79 stickered for about $12,000 in 1979, so inflation could have easily jacked that to $13K or more the following year. I couldn't see one of these things stickering for $26K, though!

fintail

I'm at about 346XX miles now.

I swear I gained a half mpg or so when I had the exhaust resonator removed...weird.

fintail

And he's in NZ of all places...would never have expected three of those to wind up there.

boomchek

Stop by my work sometime if you're here for a few days and have time. Plus check out that store I told you about (Wilinson's) if you haven't already.

fintail

Which dealer do you work at? I might be pretty free at times later tomorrow or Sat. I am here til Sun or Mon.

I just looked up Wilkinsons...I'll have to remember that. I see they list a Minichamps fintail...didn't know one was out yet. I'm also looking for a couple books...maybe I'll find a souvenir there.

boomchek

columbia chrysler in richmond

andre1969

but finally, here are the pics I took at that car show I went to in Macungie, PA, about 4 weeks ago.

Oh, and since my '76 LeMans copped an attitude and refused to start, that ended up being baby's first car show. I'm amazed at how well this thing photographed. I swear it doesn't look nearly that good in person!

Oh, and at the end of the pics, there's one shot of a thunderhead that was building up off in the distance. Looked really cool in person, but didn't look nearly as impressive in pictures. And the final two pics are of my NYer parked next to Lemko's Park Ave. Two American luxury cars that are out standing in their field! :P

magnette

That is pretty impressive for such a powerful car - although if my actual economy car (Vauxhall Corsa 1.2 TurboDiesel) was returning 25.8 mpg, I'd have to check the rear to see if someone had hitched a trailer on.....