Oh, it's got a K&N filter for MORE POWER! Well then, I was going to offer him book value of $2500 but with that filter, I think $7000 is more than fair.
Well if you THINK about it....the car has a throttle flap that restricts air anyway, except at Wide Open Throttle, so if the K&N did any good at all, it would have to be at WOT + high revolutions....and....the amount of "good" it might do would depend even further upon how restrictive the original air cleaner system was (they're pretty darn good on modern cars) PLUS the cubic inches in the motor (more cubes, more air enters).
So if you were lucky and had everything in your favor, the K&N might show 2-3 HP on the dyno with the Diplomat wound tight and flat out.
So if you were lucky and had everything in your favor, the K&N might show 2-3 HP on the dyno with the Diplomat wound tight and flat out.
Those things had a 2.26:1 rear end, to compensate for not having overdrive. So it might take awhile to get one revved up to where it's going flat-out!
I had an '89 Gran Fury ex-police car (318 4-bbl, 2.94:1 rear). Looking back, I really wasn't all that impressed with the M-body. They were good, sturdy cars, probably more over-built than most cars of that time. My biggest beef with it was that it acted like a bigger car than it was. I swear, my R-bodies, which are about a foot and a half longer, and ride a ~6" longer wheelbase, feel more nimble. I think the turning circle is about the same.
I also didn't like the position of the steering wheel...too close to my chest, kinda like a pickup truck, or an older car. I guess when you figure it dates back to the 1976 Volare, that might make sense. However, the steering wheel of my '76 LeMans doesn't crowd me like that.
Being a copcar, my Gran Fury handled quite well, but I hear the civilian versions of these things were a bit sloppy. Interestingly though, when CR tested an '85 Fifth Avenue, they rated it poor for routine handling, but better than average for emergency handling. So they could handle when you really needed them to, but just didn't give you that impression in day-to-day driving.
Visibility was actually excellent in these cars, thanks to the low beltline, thin pillars, and huge glass area. An added bonus was that you could see the edges of the car. Also, it was more slab-sided than most cars, which helped make the car feel roomier inside than the published interior specs might suggest.
I dunno if I'd ever want to get back into another M-body, although I do sorta like that Diplomat.
I think the M-body Diplomat might have the distinction of being the only car ever marketed as a compact, midsize, AND fullsize! From '77-79, it was marketed as sort of a luxury compact, Mopar's answer to the Granada. From 1980-81, they marketed it as a midsize...nevermind the fact that it was no bigger inside than the compact Aspen/Volare inside. Then, after the R-bodies were canceled, the '82-89 models were marketed as full-sized cars.
Saw a mid to late 80's (I think) 4-door Cadillac on 4-lane road in shopping district of nearby town. It had maroon colored paint with matched maroon padded top with wire-wheel covers and white-wall tires. Was surprised to see early 20's guy driving it with his window rolled down and cigarette in left hand hanging out. Car looked to be in excellent condition on outside.
a 2005 Ram SRT10. Never driven one before, and I haven't really taken this one out cause it's RWD, has no TCS, and it's been raining. It's just crazy seeing that 8.3 L Viper V10 motor stuffed under the hood. And these Rams look like bulldogs. Huge head (cab) and small body (bed). Menacing. :surprise:
when i first saw your post about not having driven an SRT 10 and saw the wet pavement, i went oh-ohh. glad you are waiting for better conditions to drive it. it's a stick?
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Yeah it's a 6 speed. The clutch and shifter are very heavy. And no, I know better than to try and lay 500hp on wet pavement in a not-mine vehicle without traction or stability control. :sick:
No I think it's the only production truck with a V10....actually I'll correct myself. Ford had a V10 for a while but it was a work truck not a performance truck.
Studebaker Pick Up, it had one of those sun visors over the windshield so likely late 40s or early 50s vintage. Dull tan paint, otherwise in good shape.
2 CV Three-wheeler --- the engineer leaves something to be desired. 80 mph on three wheels? Er....no thanks, I want to live. I like the exhaust pipe right next to the headlight----great idea.
Excalibur Sedan "Royale" -- OMG! That's awful!!
80s 'gullwing' -- he's just pilin' up the bids ain't he? Well, another Mercedes ruined. There oughta be a law against this sort of thing....
Riley Kestrel -- nice interior though.
52 Benz from Argentina --- totally cool...probably dangerously slow, ridiculously slow, unbelievably slow---but what a great looking old thing. Love to have it.
60 Chrysler New Yorker Wagon --- nasty looking rust there, BIG JOB---not sure about the upside on this one, but it would be nice if someone saved it. You rarely see them around anymore. You might get $20K for it when you're done.
Fiat 850 -- It could always be recycled to make Italian frozen TV dinner trays.
Stutz Bearcat IV-Porte --- well, if Wayne Newton likes it, it MUST be good.
The ALTI is not the ALTO of car design is it? Sure botched that one up. How can these guys keep getting this "neo-classics" SO WRONG?
Mercedes Combi -- I'd buy it just for the license plates! LOTTA work, enormous task, a very large mountain to climb. You need to be crazy....there, let's just say it.
"Coach built" - why somebody would think a tacky, drug-induced creation based upon an 80's malaise automobile would be worth anything (other than a laugh) is just plain crazy. Gee, 0 bids on a lincoln thrown into a bass-o-matic with a $80,000 buy it now.
I understand why Elvis and Wayne Newton would own them: It takes heavy drugs and a Vegas sense of style to think those ugly piles of **** are sensible.
Neoclassic sedans are somehow more offensive than their two door siblings. One would have hoped the sense of "taste" that created them died off 20 years ago...but apparently its still alive.
Gullwing SEC... so 80s, but I beleive the gullwing conversion ruins the car's clean hardtop look, as the driver's door window is smaller, and rear windows are fixed now. Looks cool only with the doors open. And why is it sagging in the back so much?
Alti boat tail...wow, can't believe it has tha many bids. And I think those are Granada headlights.
Stutz... I think they're so ill styled and disproportional, that in my opinion they take the cake for one of the ugliest cars ever. I'd take that Town Car conversion over this thing. And why is one bidder bidding over himself, like 5 times. :confuse:
I like how the Fiat 850 is kept inside a living room of some sorts. I always wanted to once stick a car in a living room, or a livable area.
3.0 CS is a nice cruising type GT car--too nose heavy to be a comfortable sports car to fling around---so the automatic makes more sense for this type of vehicle IMO--a very comfortable gentleman's express, ala Jaguar XK8, Mercedes SL etc.
A Fiat 850 is actually one of the few cars in the world that could actually rust while in someone's living room
That's funny. maybe it was engineered that way so that customers wouldn't own one for too long, but instead buy something new. Fiat had the auto manufacturing monopoly in Italy anyways during that time, didn't it?
Fiat had the auto manufacturing monopoly in Italy anyways during that time, didn't it?
Not quite, when the 850 was designed in the early 60s Lancia, Alfa, Maserati and Ferrari were still independent. Fiat had a monopoly on low end cars made in Italy but still had to compete with Volkswagen, Renault, Opel etc.
I wonder what, exactly, that 1980 Stutz is based on. I tried decoding the VIN, and all I can tell is that it's based on a 1980 Pontiac 4-door sedan with an Olds 350. The roofline looks like a B-body with a more formalized C-pillar, so I'm guessing a Catalina or, more likely, a Bonneville?
All those neoclassic things are hideous, but of the three, I think the Stutz is the least so. Perhaps because it's still a reflection on the times, something that a lot of people still aspired to, just taken to grotesque extremes.
I don't like that Lincoln Town Car based thing, partly because it's too big I guess, but also because when you look at it, it's so blatantly obvious what it's based on. At least the Stutz keeps you guessing for a few minutes.
You could make a game out of that Cord thing, such as "guess that part!" In addition to the Granada headlights, I see a lot of Cavalier on the interior, such as the dash and the door panels. And what are the taillights out of? They kinda make me think of a big mid-70's Monaco.
I do like the black Cordoba. I always thought the '80-83 Cordoba and Mirada were sharp looking cars...almost too tasteful for the 80's! One thing I just realized...I don't think I've ever seen one in green. I wonder if Chrysler might've dropped their greens from their color choices in 1980? In '79 they two greens. One was a dark emerald-type green, and the other was a pale silvery green. Looked really sharp in 2-tone.
Yesterday I saw an early Infiniti Q45 (the grilleless one) doing taxi duty at Union Station in Washington. I confirmed the year with the driver, and asked him about the availability of spare parts. He said parts are available, but expensive. This taxi had 183,000 miles on it. The driver said the engine and transmission are original.
Old Q45s are rare sights these days, but this may be the only one in the world that's used as a taxi. I wonder what the economics are like. I assume the owner bought it very cheaply, but one would think that the combination of low fuel economy from the V8, plus expensive maintenance and repairs, makes that Q among the least cost effective taxis anywhere. Oh, well, at least the passengers ride in luxury. Too bad the vast majority wouldn't know or care what they're riding in.
I didn't need a cab, but was tempted to take a ride anyway, just to be chauffeured around in an old Q.
You see all kinds of strange old taxis in the nation's capital, but this one was among the wierdest I've seen. Among the newer taxis are some Priuses, but I've seen those in other cities too. That's not too surprising.
I've never driven either, so I trust your opinion, but given that the 164 had FWD and a very spirited V6, was torque steer an issue, or was it pretty well controlled?
Your comment about the Q45's driving dynamics (I assume that's what you were referring to) is interesting, since I remember reading that Infiniti aimed the Q at the German luxury brands, while Lexus engineered the LS400 for luxury rather than sport. I gather, from your comment, the Q fell short. The Q's weak sales support your evaluation.
That Q45 taxi-I never tried the rear seat, but I was amazed at how little headroom it had up front. I looked at one when they were giving huge rebates because of slow sales, but I couldn't come close to fitting. Shame for such a big car.
Well the car would get out and go if you romped on it, but I never personally felt it came close to the driving dynamics of a BMW 7 series or a 5, and not an Alfa 164 either. The Alfa was FWD but you know, you'd never even know it if I lent you the car. Certainly not a handful like a Saab turbo of the same era.
Funny you mention that. I saw the last gen Q today, I think it was a 2004 with the gatling-gun style headlights.
You rarely see any Qs around. We had one traded in at Honda when I worked there, and compared to today's standards the car has nothing special about it. A leather Accord has more bells and whistles today than that Q had. At least an old MB S Class or BMW 7 series of that era has some prestige, where as the Q is just an old Japanese uplevel car.
" At least an old MB S Class or BMW 7 series of that era has some prestige, where as the Q is just an old Japanese uplevel car."
Yeah, there's no prestige factor associated with an old Q. That's largely due to the fact that very few people know what the heck it is. For that matter, I don't imagine early '90s Lexus LS400s are very prestigious either, but they're probably recognizable to more people than the Qs.
Regardless of whether an old luxury sedan has more or less prestige, the bottom line is that none of them, not even Mercedes and BMWs, are worth much these days. The difference between, say, a '92 Q or LS400 compared with an S-Class or 7-Series from the same year may be significant in percentage terms, but isn't very meaningful in absolute terms.
They are all $4000 cars at best. And if that Q has any kind of engine trouble, you might as well just throw it away. At least with a 7 Series or an LS400, the engine will be the very last thing to go.
I always liked and still don't mind the original LS400. Nice if not a little bland styling, but just a decent overall package.
We had one on the lot a few years back with about 120k miles. Usually we won't keep anything that old, but this Lexus ran like new. You could start it up, and place a cigarette lighter standing up on the top of the running engine, and it wouldn't even fall over, that's how smooth it ran.
I agree on the LS. I've recently started thinking a 3-4 year old LS430 might be a good alternative to an equal-price new car. Decent mileage and top-shelf reliability, smooooooth (just not a handler).
A local dealer had an 05 LS loaded ultra lux package, 30K miles, mint, for something like 26K. Seems like a lot of car for the money. I rode in one of those once, buttery soft leather, it still sticks in my head.
Comments
So if you were lucky and had everything in your favor, the K&N might show 2-3 HP on the dyno with the Diplomat wound tight and flat out.
Those things had a 2.26:1 rear end, to compensate for not having overdrive. So it might take awhile to get one revved up to where it's going flat-out!
I had an '89 Gran Fury ex-police car (318 4-bbl, 2.94:1 rear). Looking back, I really wasn't all that impressed with the M-body. They were good, sturdy cars, probably more over-built than most cars of that time. My biggest beef with it was that it acted like a bigger car than it was. I swear, my R-bodies, which are about a foot and a half longer, and ride a ~6" longer wheelbase, feel more nimble. I think the turning circle is about the same.
I also didn't like the position of the steering wheel...too close to my chest, kinda like a pickup truck, or an older car. I guess when you figure it dates back to the 1976 Volare, that might make sense. However, the steering wheel of my '76 LeMans doesn't crowd me like that.
Being a copcar, my Gran Fury handled quite well, but I hear the civilian versions of these things were a bit sloppy. Interestingly though, when CR tested an '85 Fifth Avenue, they rated it poor for routine handling, but better than average for emergency handling. So they could handle when you really needed them to, but just didn't give you that impression in day-to-day driving.
Visibility was actually excellent in these cars, thanks to the low beltline, thin pillars, and huge glass area. An added bonus was that you could see the edges of the car. Also, it was more slab-sided than most cars, which helped make the car feel roomier inside than the published interior specs might suggest.
I dunno if I'd ever want to get back into another M-body, although I do sorta like that Diplomat.
I think the M-body Diplomat might have the distinction of being the only car ever marketed as a compact, midsize, AND fullsize! From '77-79, it was marketed as sort of a luxury compact, Mopar's answer to the Granada. From 1980-81, they marketed it as a midsize...nevermind the fact that it was no bigger inside than the compact Aspen/Volare inside. Then, after the R-bodies were canceled, the '82-89 models were marketed as full-sized cars.
Or he and the car could have been frozen in 1982 and recently rejuvenated. :P
Spotted: gold 1963 Ford Galaxie convertible with ratty white top.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
it's a stick?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
AMC Eagle wagon, it looked like this one....>
...except for missing chrome and dents.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Homely big beast
This survived very nicely
Now this is the 80s
Send it back to blighty
Granada headlights?
Classy
This is unusual anymore
Toyota tried to be a little less dull once
Leviathan
Late series tin can
Impressive resto-mod
Patina...price didn't seem too bad
Rare and very involved project with bids
I could see Andre in this
Neat hauler
Companion for your 21 window Samba
Excalibur Sedan "Royale" -- OMG! That's awful!!
80s 'gullwing' -- he's just pilin' up the bids ain't he? Well, another Mercedes ruined. There oughta be a law against this sort of thing....
Riley Kestrel -- nice interior though.
52 Benz from Argentina --- totally cool...probably dangerously slow, ridiculously slow, unbelievably slow---but what a great looking old thing. Love to have it.
60 Chrysler New Yorker Wagon --- nasty looking rust there, BIG JOB---not sure about the upside on this one, but it would be nice if someone saved it. You rarely see them around anymore. You might get $20K for it when you're done.
Fiat 850 -- It could always be recycled to make Italian frozen TV dinner trays.
Stutz Bearcat IV-Porte --- well, if Wayne Newton likes it, it MUST be good.
The ALTI is not the ALTO of car design is it? Sure botched that one up. How can these guys keep getting this "neo-classics" SO WRONG?
Mercedes Combi -- I'd buy it just for the license plates! LOTTA work, enormous task, a very large mountain to climb. You need to be crazy....there, let's just say it.
I understand why Elvis and Wayne Newton would own them: It takes heavy drugs and a Vegas sense of style to think those ugly piles of **** are sensible.
Okay, I'm calming down now.
I think the white powder fad of the 80s made a gullwing SEC seem almost sensible.
The MB microbus is similar to one I "discovered" several years ago:
Eccentric owner was adamant about not selling it, but of course lacks the means to restore it. A lot of cars are lost that way.
Alti boat tail...wow, can't believe it has tha many bids. And I think those are Granada headlights.
Stutz... I think they're so ill styled and disproportional, that in my opinion they take the cake for one of the ugliest cars ever. I'd take that Town Car conversion over this thing. And why is one bidder bidding over himself, like 5 times. :confuse:
I like how the Fiat 850 is kept inside a living room of some sorts. I always wanted to once stick a car in a living room, or a livable area.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Early '70s BMW 3.0 CS.. automatic (in script along the trunk edge). It was in that nice vanilla color... recently restored, apparently..
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That's funny. maybe it was engineered that way so that customers wouldn't own one for too long, but instead buy something new. Fiat had the auto manufacturing monopoly in Italy anyways during that time, didn't it?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Not quite, when the 850 was designed in the early 60s Lancia, Alfa, Maserati and Ferrari were still independent. Fiat had a monopoly on low end cars made in Italy but still had to compete with Volkswagen, Renault, Opel etc.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
All those neoclassic things are hideous, but of the three, I think the Stutz is the least so. Perhaps because it's still a reflection on the times, something that a lot of people still aspired to, just taken to grotesque extremes.
I don't like that Lincoln Town Car based thing, partly because it's too big I guess, but also because when you look at it, it's so blatantly obvious what it's based on. At least the Stutz keeps you guessing for a few minutes.
You could make a game out of that Cord thing, such as "guess that part!" In addition to the Granada headlights, I see a lot of Cavalier on the interior, such as the dash and the door panels. And what are the taillights out of? They kinda make me think of a big mid-70's Monaco.
I do like the black Cordoba. I always thought the '80-83 Cordoba and Mirada were sharp looking cars...almost too tasteful for the 80's! One thing I just realized...I don't think I've ever seen one in green. I wonder if Chrysler might've dropped their greens from their color choices in 1980? In '79 they two greens. One was a dark emerald-type green, and the other was a pale silvery green. Looked really sharp in 2-tone.
Old Q45s are rare sights these days, but this may be the only one in the world that's used as a taxi. I wonder what the economics are like. I assume the owner bought it very cheaply, but one would think that the combination of low fuel economy from the V8, plus expensive maintenance and repairs, makes that Q among the least cost effective taxis anywhere. Oh, well, at least the passengers ride in luxury. Too bad the vast majority wouldn't know or care what they're riding in.
I didn't need a cab, but was tempted to take a ride anyway, just to be chauffeured around in an old Q.
You see all kinds of strange old taxis in the nation's capital, but this one was among the wierdest I've seen. Among the newer taxis are some Priuses, but I've seen those in other cities too. That's not too surprising.
I rode in an Audi A6 Quattro cab in Nice, France once. Can't remember whether it was a diesel, but it probably was. Nice ride, bad pun.
I've never driven either, so I trust your opinion, but given that the 164 had FWD and a very spirited V6, was torque steer an issue, or was it pretty well controlled?
Your comment about the Q45's driving dynamics (I assume that's what you were referring to) is interesting, since I remember reading that Infiniti aimed the Q at the German luxury brands, while Lexus engineered the LS400 for luxury rather than sport. I gather, from your comment, the Q fell short. The Q's weak sales support your evaluation.
Certainly not a handful like a Saab turbo of the same era.
You rarely see any Qs around. We had one traded in at Honda when I worked there, and compared to today's standards the car has nothing special about it. A leather Accord has more bells and whistles today than that Q had. At least an old MB S Class or BMW 7 series of that era has some prestige, where as the Q is just an old Japanese uplevel car.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Yeah, there's no prestige factor associated with an old Q. That's largely due to the fact that very few people know what the heck it is. For that matter, I don't imagine early '90s Lexus LS400s are very prestigious either, but they're probably recognizable to more people than the Qs.
Regardless of whether an old luxury sedan has more or less prestige, the bottom line is that none of them, not even Mercedes and BMWs, are worth much these days. The difference between, say, a '92 Q or LS400 compared with an S-Class or 7-Series from the same year may be significant in percentage terms, but isn't very meaningful in absolute terms.
Beige 1964 Lincoln Continental sedan with ridiculous Dubs.
Beige 1962 Lincoln Continental convertible
Yellow 1966-67 Lincoln Continental sedan
We had one on the lot a few years back with about 120k miles. Usually we won't keep anything that old, but this Lexus ran like new. You could start it up, and place a cigarette lighter standing up on the top of the running engine, and it wouldn't even fall over, that's how smooth it ran.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
SDC400 --- Sensory Deprivation Chamber.