I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

Is that the one from the estate? I want one of those with a sidecar.

oregonboy

That BMW looks pretty sweet, what is it?

But honestly now, are bikes really reasonable in today's world...
and at our age today ???

fintail

Today I saw an E21 3er, an 80s Buick Skyhawk, and a K-Car. Exciting!

fintail

I once saw a 560SL bring $1500 at an auction. I am sure you can imagine how nice it was.

Mr_Shiftright

What amazes me about people who buy crappy old German luxury cars is that for $2000 --$3000 more they could buy a really nice one. No way they could rehab the junker they bought for that amount of money.

BMW motorcycle -- yeah, that's a 51/3, a 500cc bike. These are easy to ride, very reliable daily drivers....only downside is that they are slow, so on-ramps and high speed passing are white-knuckle enterprises. You'd go faster in a Harley but you'd be sweeping pieces off the street every day.

I think my cross-country days on a bike are over (too punishing on an aging body) but for scooting around town, or day trips to San Francisco, they might be fun. I'd just like to sit and look at it, quite frankly. And it's a better investment than stocks right now. :P

fintail

The cheapo car I saw was one of the dirtiest and most neglected modern cars I have seen. It looked like it had been parked in a damp ravine for 10 years. I have to wonder how it got to be in such a condition. It would have looked at home at davidsfarm on youtube.

I remember back around 2003 or so a local dealer had an 88 560SL, same color combo as my W126, 70K one owner miles, pristine (even by my standards), for 14K. I seriously thought about it, as it would have been a fun one to have as it matched my other car. It sold pretty fast, in a few days.

I like the looks of those old BMWs and other period German bikes. Very pure designs. I'm still a bit too chicken to ride anything given the lack of local driving skill, but I can see keeping it around just to admire it. There will always be demand for them too, as you mention, there are worse investments.

lemko

Shifty says it might run a long time? As the owner of a 1988 Buick myself, I guarantee it will run a long time!

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah but you are (as mighty as you are) only a database of one. Statistically relevant but not conclusive. :P You might go broke warrantying ALL '88 Buicks. Be careful!

andys120

I dunno about 1988 Buicks but my MIL' s '00 LeSabre feels more "used up" @ 40K miles than my '00 528i feels @ 110K.

hpmctorque

Did your MIL's LeSabre really deteriorate that rapidly, or is your evaluation influenced by your bias against Buicks (or perhaps your MIL, which could be understandable)?

andys120

I haven't always been biased against Buicks, I remember fondly a couple that I drove back inthe 60s. Back then Buicks were like BMWs, well made and with a certain class that separated them from ordinary cars are now but modern Buicks are
indistinguishable from Chevies.

Don't get me wrong , that LeSabre still has a lot of miles left in it but it feels tired compared to my Bimmer at the same age and almost four times the miles.

imidazol97

Two cars that are very different in characteristics.

I would guess the tires on the leSabre are the standard General tires and mostly worn at 40K... Fresh Michelins like Harmonys would make a big difference. Sixteen inch wheels with Michelins would help even more.

andre1969

If that 2000 LeSabre is a base model, it could just be that the car is vague and wallowy in the way it handles, and that makes it feel worn out, compared to something that's tighter, like a BMW.

A few years back, I test drove a used 2000 LeSabre. At the time, it was only a couple years old, and probably only had around 30,000 miles. It didn't feel worn out, because, well, I'm used to cars like that! But it did have a sort of vagueness to it, for lack of a better word, in how it felt connected to the road, and how it handled and such. It was almost as if GM took a modern car, but somehow programmed it to feel like a much bigger car, older car. Almost like they were going for that old feel, where they tried their hardest to completely isolate the driver from the outside world.

Similarly, I drove my grandmother's cousin's '89 Coupe DeVille once. That thing felt every bit as vague and wallowy as the big old RWD cars it replaced. It made me wonder, at first, if they were going to go through that much effort to downsize the cars, then why make them feel just like the old mastodons they were replacing? But I guess a lot of people moved grudgingly into those shrunken cars, so to compensate perhaps GM tried to make them feel like the bigger cars they replaced, in ride and handling?

Like Imidazol97 mentioned though, their handling can be improved, with the right options. I think the 2000 LeSabre had smallish 15x6 wheels, and tires that were around 215/70/R15? The Limited model came with bigger wheels and better tires, and a stiffer suspension.

Funny though, a few years back, my Dad actually made a similar comment about his 2003 Regal, saying that it started feeling like it was getting tired and worn out. I don't see how that's possible though, because he doesn't drive it enough to wear it out! It had around 19,500 miles on it when he got it in late 2003, and I think he's only up to around 50,000 miles now! Maybe it just needed new tires or an alignment or something. It's also just a base model, the LS, which also has 15x6 wheels, and I think 205/70/R15 tires.

Dad's Regal isn't a horrible handling car, I guess. I'd put it about at the level of my '76 LeMans, which has been upgraded a bit. Still, I guess that's kinda sad that I'm comparing it to a car 27 years older, and saying handling hasn't improved!

Mr_Shiftright

Well the BMW build quality and assembly would be a whole lot better, regardless of whether the two cars matched in reliability. If you take, say, a 1988 BMW 7 series, it will just outlast any other car by just sitting there and refusing to bio-degrade. The chrome, upholstery, paint, rubber--it's all better stuff---which is why it costs more (oddly enough) :P

Of course, the most neglected BMW would deteriorate a lot faster than the most beloved and cared for Buick. You can only take this 'build quality" thing so far.

imidazol97

Those General tires that are specified for original equipment on the regular LeSabre are for _easy____ rolling____ and are very forgiving in their sidewalls. I had then on two previous leSabres. They lose crispness quickly and develop a middle-age spread sort of. Add that to bushings that are meant to give a smooth ride on tar strips and the car becomes heavy feeling.

Add a real fuel system cleaner like Techron to the tank at full strength, have the throttle body cleaned to remove the gunk that puffs back and can clog the space between butterfly and the wall and even stick, clean the MAF and IAC. And remember that computers adapt to how the car is driven, so clear the computer and reset the block learn or take the car on a long good drive and drive it like you stole it.

I saw a classic car in perfect condition. An Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo. I am not sure of the year but this was showcare perfect. In the Walmart parking lot!!!

Mr_Shiftright

Here's a guy bought himself a Trofeo for $200 bucks and it runs great!

http://www.cbtgarage.com/trofeo/trofeo.htm

I love the dashboard. Reminds me of what an 8-track stereo deck made in the Netherlands might have looked like.

ghulet

I saw today (waiting for a bus, you notice 'things' moreso than while driving):

-a Merkur Scorpio (black, of course; the first I've seen in probably 2-3 years)
-an early '70s Toyota Corona sedan (with bench seat, so I assume column shift automatic)
-a VW Quantum 5 GL automatic (sitting on a busy street with several parking tickets)

hpmctorque

Sure, being an '80s beater we can agree that this Trofeo has deficiencies, but it's also got appealing aspects. Examples would include the combination of compact dimensions and the FE3 suspension, for good handling, easily obtainable parts, and unique styling. It also represents a storied brand. Finally, it's historically significant because this generation of GM luxury coupes is the last of a series of GM's downsizing effort, an exercise that began with the very successful '77 large bodies. One could do much worse. I think it's an interesting car.

andre1969

I always liked those shrunken Toronados, although I prefer the last few years, where they stuck about a foot on the back of the car to make it look more substantial. The car had a sleek, futuristic, youthful look to it. I always thought it came off better than the Riviera, which looked too much like a Somerset Regal, while the Eldorado/Seville just looked too dainty.

Those cars were the designed for an alternate future, one that never came to be. A future with scarce, $3.00/gal gas, and a market that would still embrace the personal luxury coupe. Well, okay, we eventually got the $3/gal gas, and then some! But it hasn't gotten scarce (yet) since the early 80's. And coupes sort of went the way of the 8-track.

They were actually pretty fuel-efficient, too. The EPA sticker for a 1986 Toronado was 19/30. In contrast, the 1985 model, which used a 307 V-8, was 17/22.

As for replacement parts, generic stuff like the engine, tranny, suspension components, etc, would be easy to find, but good luck if that digital display shorts out, or if some unique part in the interior breaks! It's something that you could probably keep running forever, if you're willing to put up with an interior that may grow increasingly less-than-perfect over time.

lemko

Also, a 1988 BMW 7-Series would be a money pit. I hardly need to spend anything on my 1988 Buick Park Ave. One repair on that Bimmer could eat up 5 year's worth of maintenance and repairs on my Buick.

michaellno

-an early '70s Toyota Corona sedan (with bench seat, so I assume column shift automatic)

Now, don't be dissing on the Toyota .. that was exactly the type of car I learned to drive in!

My folks bought a '73 Corona ... brown with brown vinyl interior. Yes, it was a bench seat and had a column shift automatic. I think it had a 2.0L 4-banger, but no idea how many HP.

We had it until 1981 or so, when the car was totaled in an accident while I was driving it to school one morning.

andre1969

That's interesting, that they'd put a bench seat in something that small. I guess it would make sense in an economy car though, as a single bench would be lighter, and less expensive, than two buckets.

michaellno

What I don't remember is if there were three seat belts up front .. I guess there had to be in 1973, right?

It was not a very large car, but it did everything our family needed. I don't think we took any long trips in it, just mainly errand running and, when I got my license in 1979, back and forth to school on the days my mom didn't need it.

The Corona was the last new car my folks bought until they got their Hyundai Sonata in 2003. Between the Corona and Sonata were a series of used cars - 1 MB and 2 Toyotas.

Of course, my dad had his '70 Chevy pick up the whole time.

hpmctorque

"...but good luck if that digital display shorts out..."

Someone who knows what they're doing can resolder the broken connection, and repair those digital dashes. At least, that was my experience with my '88 300 ZX. A friend of mine removed the faulty component that wiped out the temp gauge and some less important readout, resoldered the connection, then reinstalled the component, and the dash was as good as new. The whole repair took about 90 minutes. That was five years ago, and it's still working perfectly.

Mr_Shiftright

It's an "interesting car" to some, but not to the vast majority of car collectors. That's why they're worth $200 when they aren't running. In relative terms they are more interesting than most things GM built in the late 1980s, I will grant you that. But in absolute terms, it's just another car destined for the wrecking yard--not because they are bad, or lack merit, but because they are not worth fixing. Cruel market place economics.

Lemko, don't pinch the nose of the devil, please. You and I can be a victim of massive auto repairs costs just like the poor sucker who buys an old German luxury car. We cross our fingers but we never know.

Actually--surprisingly-- the 80s BMW 7 Series cars aren't known to be money pits. They are very, *very* good cars, and IMHO, the best car BMW ever made, ever, in all its history (in terms of reliability and durability I mean). It's one of the few old European cars I actually recommend buying cheaply, if you can find a nice one. Others on my list are the old fintails, the Benz 300SD, and the volvo 122. I have complete faith in these cars to perform steadily on modern roads for years and years.

Sometimes an automaker "gets it mostly right".

magnette

Just come back from Wales, again - last trip to move furniture etc, so I was driving a rented Ford Transit van this time - plenty of visibility, but a bit awkward when parking - mainly due to the lack of rearward visibility - I'm not used to driving vans, and find the lack of an interior rear view mirror a bit of a problem, especially reversing.

Anyway - spotted a few old or unusual cars on the road.

Riley RMA 1 1/2 litre
MG TC Midget
Ford Anglia 105E
Austin Healey - an early 3000
VW type 3 fastback - 1600 - we don't see those any more, but this one looked like somebody's daily drive, as I passed it just now on the motorway.
Also saw a pre-war light truck - I think it was a Bedford, but it could have been something else - basically Bedfords of that era were very close copied of Chevrolet trucks built here, as Bedford was of course the British GM commercial division - I think the first ones were actually sold as British Buick, or something - I'm not very sure of trucks....

Mr_Shiftright

Gee you could have filmed a WWII movie! Very few people here would ever know that the Bedford model you saw was pre-war and that the TC actually slightly postwar. Of course you WOULD have to explain the VW in the film about wartime London. Well you could say it was DROPPED there. :P

kyfdx

They had one of those Transit vans at our local car show, last month.... Aren't they made in Turkey? It's a pretty cool little truck.

The salesman at the show said they are on their way here.... 4-cylinder and 5-speed transmission on the one at the show. He said we won't get the diesel, because of emission regulations...

magnette

They make Transits all over the place - including England, I think, although I am not sure whether that is just assembling German or Spanish ones, or something...
This one was a five speed Turbo diesel, and although it wasn't a sports car, it certainly could keep up with the traffic - I saw 90 on the clock on the way down (empty)

magnette

I have to admit the MG TC could even have been a TB - they look the same to me, but as the TB was only made for a short time thanks to the outbreak of WW2, I think it was more likely to have been a TC.

fintail

Do you see both the W116 and W126 300SD as equally good?

How about the W123 diesels, which are still soldiering on everywhere?

What's the good old 7er, the 735?

fintail

A friend of mine's ex-gf's father bought her a one owner very clean low mileage 91 Trofeo when she had yet another at-fault accident and totalled her Accord. This was in 2004 or 2005 I think. He had paid something like 2 grand for it, which seemed like a decent deal given the condition and the amenities of the car - it was loaded. It was the larger downsized model, but it too had a goofy high tech dashboard. She was livid about this, as she wanted another Honda. If I was on the parental dole and that car was bought for me, I would be very pleased...a unique and should-be reliable car. Some people... The only drawback was the color combo that a lot of those seemed to have, burgundy on burgundy.

fintail

Most people would think the Riley was prewar, too.

I've always liked the 105E with its extroverted period styling, light years ahead of what it replaced.

I love MGTCs and the prewar cars, but I fear I am too tall (and big) to fit in one properly.

andys120

What's the good old 7er, the 735?

I think Shifty must've been referring to the 740i/E32. I don't think the 735i ever came to the US and the V12 powerplant in the 750i was problematic.

Based on the number I see still on the road in apparently good condition I'd say the
E34 Five Series was a particularly sturdy Bimmer. Likewise the E30 Three Series ('84-'91), so beloved by Propellerheads.

boomchek

I remember there was the 735i and735iL versions of the E32 at least in Canada. They had BMW's 3.5L inline 6.

kyfdx

733i up until 1985, I think....

Then, 735i from '86 on...

Mr_Shiftright

BMW 735 --Yep the US model I was thinking of was the 735 with I believe the M30 engine? GREAT CAR! I had a couple of them--one sold to a guy in Lake Tahoe 6 years ago and he's still driving it 24/7. I put that car in good order, though. Never heard a bad word about these from people who started with a good one.

MGTC -- yes it is hard to tell them from earlier Midgets unless you are an MG freak. I can *barely* drive a TC with my shoes off and wearing thin pants. They are such fun to drive--equal to the other most funnest cars in the world, an original Mini Cooper or a 1275 Bugeye Sprite that's been breathed upon a tad.

TROFEO -- yes, the dreaded electronic dash. They blitzed themselves with regularity but as you say, if you're clever you might be able to hit the back of the circuit board with a soldering iron and get lucky---or buy an aftermarket gauge pak and a wind gauge. :P

300SD -- any model is great except the ones that had the dreaded oxidizer or whatever they called it. Some kind of trap device that mostly trapped dollar bills.

300D -- sturdy, great cars but way too freakin' slow to be safe on modern roads. For the blind and elderly perhaps in benign rural settings populated by Buddhist monks.

lemmer

What is a decent 735i worth these days?

Mr_Shiftright

nothing. Dirt. Okay seriously? A nice clean ready to roll needs nothing driver $2500--$3000. One with dents, rust, bad paint, slipping trans, oil burning? Take it to the wrecker.

lemmer

there is one in my local paper -

BMW 735i, '92, Cienna red, tan leather, 1 owner, 127k mi, gar. kept, CD, auto, loaded. $4,900 OBO

oregonboy

There are still a few out there

Low miles, cracked windshield, $1,500

Shifty's right, with issues they're worthless (priced $500 too high)

Bad Taste Alert !!! The $7,000 735i
Gucci 735i

oregonboy

That sounds like the top of the market

Mr_Shiftright

Gucci BMW -- might be fun for local car freak shows. You'd get a lot of looks for $7K, also the scorn, bile and ill wishes of the BMW purists. (which would also be FUN! :P )

85 BMW 735 -- doesn't look like a bad deal to me. I'd offer $1250 for it. These are such a nice ride on the highway!! And you can get 20 mpg on long trips. Again, watch for substandard German climate control and those metric TRX tires, which are crazy-expensive. And no, you can't use TRX wheels for regular normal size tires.

fintail

Ooh, that 85 E23 looks just like the McFly's car (Biff is waxing it) at the end of Back to the Future.

oregonboy

Biff; "Just finishing the second coat."

fintail

Now Biff, don't con me!

boomchek

There's plenty locally:

735 iL

735 iL

parts junk car 1

parts junk car 2

750 iL

Newer 740 but well looked after

Mr_Shiftright

Boy talk about depreciation!

Still to be able to own a $95,000 car for under $10K (and realistically, if you offered him $8K he'd take it) is pretty amazing.

I'm not keen on miled-up 735s that "look okay, we need to get rid of it". Uh-uh.

A nice one or two owner car that looks decent inside and out is what you want.

What's nice about these 735s is that they handle great. They don't feel like boats. A 560SEL for instance, feels much bigger and heavier---you don't want to fling it around, but a 735 you can be...well...frisky at least. With the 560SEL, you fling the big girl around and her skirts go up---very improper behavior!

boomchek

With the 560SEL, you fling the big girl around and her skirts go up-

You mean the 80s AMG skirts? :P

fintail

And those are Canadian dollars, so think 20% off sale :shades:

I remember my W126 wasn't a terrible handler, especially for its mass. It had a very nice ride and was extremely comfortable on the highway. I think numb steering is the biggest handling complaint for those cars. Of course, MB handling has never been as taut as BMW, and has never tried.