usually you don't spot anything unusual. i have trying to post ANYTHING for weeks. it's lame, but was behind a nice corsica lt today. at least i am on the board now.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I would have thought all 9000s would be in the junkyard by now. To spot one on the road is to witness the unflagging will of the human spirit to overcome adversity and disaster.
SPOTTED: Cadillac XLR --- first one I've seen here in California in months. Not impressive upon closer inspection.
On Saturdays in our local paper, they profile someone from the community, and they talk about what they drive and why...etc...
Today, a local radio personality (syndicated, so maybe more than local) was profiled.... He has an XLR. Said he was shopping for a Corvette and just liked the Caddy more..
Mustang Cobra: we were just talking about the other unfinished Mustang II with a 100hp V6 who's owner wants the same money. This one does look like it's in nice shape, but it's not a muscle car i'd be interested in anyways.
Baskin (Robbins) kit car thing..... uglier looking than most I've seen. Looks like it's based off a Ford Futura/ Mercury Zephyr? Could be #1 of 1 ever made, and i don't think it would have any more value.
Russian iron: I have a feeling you can buy them for a fraction of what they're listed for if you dig deep enough.
Old Volvo: neat. I only see the rusty ones left. Seems like most owners don't baby them so they look really used up.
Sammy Davis Caddy.... yeah hard to prove that he commissioned it.
Suburban... we looked at it a few months ago here. I remember the misalinged rear hatch.
High mileage Fintail: sometimes I want to buy a miled/kilometered up car just to see how long I can keep it going. I like this one a lot. The battered body gives it it's "charm", and just by looking at the seats, you know they have the typical older MB feel of vinyl on bouncy springs. I think it would be a neat vehicle to own in the cosmetic shape that it's in.
And yeah as Shifty says, that fintail has had some engine work over the years. The old school MB I6 seem to have high maintenance valvetrains. I have records for my fintail getting a valve job when it was 10 years old, I had to give it one (along with new rings and other fun stuff) in 1997, and it needs at least an adjustment again.
Probably it's due to the fact that adjusting the valves is critical and requires a special tool and so few owners did it once they bought a fintail cheap.
I did a lot of running around today, and saw a few oddballs here and there. First, I went past a house that, back in the 1980's, had a '57-58 Chrysler 300 hardtop under its carport, but as of late, had something under a tarp, and a late 70's LeSabre coupe in the driveway. Well, today the tarp was off, and I saw what I think was a full-sized 1965 Mercury convertible. It was red with a black top, and looked like it was in pretty nice shape. The LeSabre was still in the driveway, too. The 300, alas, has been gone for ages. Shame, because I imagine it would be worth quite a bit these days.
A bit later, an auto carrier semi ran a red light in front of me. It had a few fairly new Benzes on it, as well as a Ford 500, and oddly, a red 2nd-gen Corvair 4-door hardtop, which looked to be in nice shape.
I also saw not one, not two, but THREE Ford Mavericks today! One was a beat-up red 4-door sedan out in a rural area, and the other two were coupes.
Yesterday I saw a white '81-86 Monte Carlo, which looked like it had taken a mild hit at the right front. Looked like it was in nice shape, otherwise. I think I might have seen this one before, but I didn't remember it having damage.
For a couple minutes, I was also behind an '85-89 Aries 4-door sedan. I also spotted an '81-84 Maxima yesterday, so it must have been 80's day.
And another 80s relic today, a second gen Sirocco. Not a prized maintained relic or a tuned racer, but a car that looked like it had been on the road every day for the past 25 years
And another relic...a while ago a mid-late 70s Datsun 810 wagon drove down my street...I noticed it because the horn was stuck on. It actually looked to be in excellent condition, apart from the noise. When I was little my uncle had one identical to it, he was proud of it because he claimed it had the same engine as a Z-car.
and all the cars were gone the next day. today i saw an ad in the paper that the former customers could bring their cars to their buick dealership in the next town. i was curious if the chevy's were really gone or just moved over to the buick store(not). anyways i saw a 65 seafoam green 4 door bel air for sale(probably in running condition), a 56 crown vic(fancy chrome trim dividing the front and back for the roof), an amc eagle sx4(kind of faded looking), jag xj6 which looked like the only time it will ever move again is to be hauled away.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
The Crown Vic might be worth some money. The AMC Eagle is an odd duck---some people like 'em, if you don't mind the rather tepid acceleration and appetite for gasoline..... The shabby XJ6...well, we know that's doomed. Maybe somebody will want some parts off it.
What is wrong with the Saab 9000? I always thought they were nice-looking, fun-to-drive cars. Well, at least until you had to repair them, which was quite frequently.
Also, I don't think older '80s or '90s Saabs will be a future collectible like, say, early '90s Mazda Miatas or RX-7s.
I can answer that question having owned two 9000 Turbos.
-The electrics were suspect, I recall having to replace numerous switches , particularly for power windows and an A/C compressor (ouch!). These are minor annoyances compared to the agita caused by the crappy transaxles and clutches on these cars
It was always a mystery to me that even though Saab had been making FWD transaxles longer than anyone except Citroen and DKW, they couldn't get them right, at least not on the 9000. I experienced leaking clutch slave cylinders, exploding clutch discs and bad transmission bearings, problems I've never had with most of the many manual shift cars I've owned including our '96 900S (Opel Vectra-based).
As for becoming collectibles, that's highly doubtful since very few four-doors have much value to collectors. The Turbos are fun to drive even if they have bags of understeer and torque steer. They're great highway cruisers and superb in bad weather but the only potentially collectible Saab would likely be the 900SPG which are sought after at least by Saab fanatics.
I had 3 Saab 900s, which are a bit different than the 9000s but just as troublesome from what I've heard. I recall Saabnet (who are, if anything, Saab lovers) reporting about an 8% failure rate on head gaskets. That's a LOT. I also had exploding slave cylinders, which is no fun because the slave cylinder is inside the bellhousing. The automatic transmissions totally suck--you'd be lucky to get 40K out of one--the transmissions are weak, the electrics glitchy, and the leather interiors of very sub-standard quality. The convertible top hardware cuts through the fabric (fun thing to do---look at Saab 900 convertibles for a hole right above the left rear window). The cars squeak and rattle like you wouldn't believe. Built by blind men IMO.
For the 9000s, I also recall their ignition coils burning out regularly due to poor design from oil leakage.
Actually a 900 5-door hatchback, if it had a different engine and transmission in it, (or ones that were highly modified and strengthened) would be a great car to own.
To be fair, Saab engine bottom-ends are pretty strong.
You can tell these cars will not be collectible by the paltry resale value they have right now.
Actually a 900 5-door hatchback, if it had a different engine and transmission in it, (or ones that were highly modified and strengthened) would be a great car to own.
Strangely, my girlfriend's renter has just such a car, only the transplant engine is an Isuzu V-6 diesel (!) He was short on details and I have only seen the car from the outside, so I don't know much about it, except that it has an automatic tranny... I think the original Saab unit.
well perhaps that automatic will survive longer with the pokey diesel engine.
that's kind of a neat rig, aside from the dreaded automatic. Those 5-doors are so spacious, you could move a piano in one, and they are still fun to drive. Quite a few people invest many thousands of dollars to buy an old 5-door and restore it with more modern 16V engine--even convert them from automatic to 5-speeds, with improved gear ratios (the transmission is chain and pulley driven, so you just change the pulleys, like a bicycle!). They'll spend $10K-$15K to get these "improved" 900s on the road again.
I had so much trouble with all 3 of mine. It was constant, relentless repairs on all three. Most demanding troublesome cars I ever owned, out of 100+ in my lifetime.
When I was much younger, I had a friend whose mom used to shuttle us back and forth between school, soccer practice, and the like. She had two Saab 900s- first an '82 Turbo, then an '89 900S. That was my first experience with Saabs and I can still remember my dad picking up my friend's mom from the Saab mechanics' shop on a constant basis (how about three times every two weeks?). Heck, even mid-80s Chevy Camaros (F-body) were ten times more reliable than 900s, even if they were never as well-built as Saabs.
In contrast, my other friends' parents who owned Volvo 240s never had one bit of trouble with their cars. I guess 240s are built much stronger and use more reliable mechanicals than Saabs of that era. The only complaint my Volvo-loving friends had were that the cars were just a little too slow on the highway, and most of these were not turbos.
A little too slow? I had a Volvo 142 and if it were any slower it would have been going backwards! It got replaced with a Saab 99 which was a race car in comparison but not really all that fast. And, yes, it spent a lot of time in teh shop. Oddly this seemed more because of mechanics - including the dealership - that didn't know what they were doing. Once I found a guy who did know it got better.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Maybe in reliability and cost to repair dept it's a worst car. However a Saab is better engineered than a Trabant in terms of safetry, comfort, and technology.
But if you meant *mainstream* cars sold in America, yeah, older Saabs are certainly at or near the bottom of MY list at any rate, right down there with Land Rover, Kia and (gulp) VW.
I think the newer Saabs, year 2000 on up, are much better.
As for engineering, I don't know as I would call older Saabs the "best" engineering, but certainly eccentric. Putting the engine in backwards so that the drive belts face the firewall, and putting an ignition key in the floor.....well, not my idea of the best solution.
They did pioneer turbocharging for mass-produced sedans however, so let's give them credit for that.
My favorite Saabs are the old two-strokers. I love those things.
Many years ago, I knew a guy that owned a Saab 99. He was always fixing it. He showed me the tiny engine block on his garage bench when he was rebuilding it. When he drove it, the engine sounded like pop corn popping and the car left a big cloud of blue smoke. He seemed happy with his plight. I guess some guys just like to tinker and fix things, maybe an escape mechanism to be in the garage.
One thing about those old Saabs was durability. Recall that they were very popular with Fin and Swede rally drivers in European rally/races in the 60's. The cars would easily survive rollovers and when righted the driver would just continue on.
Yes very durable suspensions, although the 900 turbos ate front tires like you wouldn't believe. 10,000 miles tops.
The 95s and 96s had the two-stroke, then the 96 got the V-4 Taunus engine from Germany. The Saab 99 inherited what I think was originally a Triumph design, so you can predict how that turned out.
The 900 engine had a very sturdy bottom end, nearly bullet-proof, but the turbos suffered from severe head gasket maladies. The 9000 I think was a GM engine, wasn't it?
The killer is when it was running I loved that Saab. And I liked the ignition on the floor. Of course I'm eccentric (well, I don't have enough money to be eccentric so I'm crazy) so it makes sense.
My brother has an 02 Saab 9-3 with about 150K on it which he bought new and has had almost trouble with. Go figure.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
As I said, the post 2000 cars are much better. Had he bought a Saab 900 you'd be rescuing him frequently. A 9-3 is a good buy...they are practically free in the marketplace these days.
Yes the ignition in the floor is great for catching debris, jamming up and sending the Saab mechanic's children through private school.
key between the seats and in reach of a curious child, not a good thing. one of my kids turned the car off while my wife was driving. only once, though.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I can easily believe all these stories about how troublesome Saabs can be. The odd thing is that I still admire them when i see them on the road...especially the 9000. And although I hear from everybody how bullet-proof Accords are, I tried to buy one in 1993 and 2001....i just couldn't get interested in them.
The few times i've driven Saabs i've really enjoyed them. I hear so many stories about how troublesome so many European cars can be, yet these are the brands that i find most interesting...
Pope-Hartford -- I doubt even the low bid is real. This is after all a former bicycle manufacturer. Not a particularly successful car, it was only made for 10 years.
Comments
i have trying to post ANYTHING for weeks.
it's lame, but was behind a nice corsica lt today.
at least i am on the board now.
I hadn't seen one of those in many,many years....
i saw another 9000 today.
Malaise muscle
"not a kit car"...wouldn't be worse if it was
Fake 48 Caddy
Commie Fake Packard, same optimistic seller
Send it to Oz, they'd love it
Old timer
Preserved box
Chase the sun, watch for leaks
Gaining a small foothold
Neat little thing
Danny Devito, waterfall, Colombia
Optioned up
The word "Gran" is so 70s
Big blue
I don't buy those claims
Long
A more interesting type of "Suburban"
Miled up
Nice E55
the one i saw today had mass plates.
saab na headquarters used to be in orange ct.
I guy I know has one, his 17y/o drives it.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
SPOTTED: Cadillac XLR --- first one I've seen here in California in months. Not impressive upon closer inspection.
It's the same car as a Corvette only the Corvette has a nicer interior which is odd since the Corvette doesn't have a really nice interior.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
On Saturdays in our local paper, they profile someone from the community, and they talk about what they drive and why...etc...
Today, a local radio personality (syndicated, so maybe more than local) was profiled.... He has an XLR. Said he was shopping for a Corvette and just liked the Caddy more..
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Baskin (Robbins) kit car thing..... uglier looking than most I've seen. Looks like it's based off a Ford Futura/ Mercury Zephyr? Could be #1 of 1 ever made, and i don't think it would have any more value.
Russian iron: I have a feeling you can buy them for a fraction of what they're listed for if you dig deep enough.
Old Volvo: neat. I only see the rusty ones left. Seems like most owners don't baby them so they look really used up.
Sammy Davis Caddy.... yeah hard to prove that he commissioned it.
Suburban... we looked at it a few months ago here. I remember the misalinged rear hatch.
High mileage Fintail: sometimes I want to buy a miled/kilometered up car just to see how long I can keep it going. I like this one a lot. The battered body gives it it's "charm", and just by looking at the seats, you know they have the typical older MB feel of vinyl on bouncy springs. I think it would be a neat vehicle to own in the cosmetic shape that it's in.
E55, looks just like your Fintail.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
And yeah as Shifty says, that fintail has had some engine work over the years. The old school MB I6 seem to have high maintenance valvetrains. I have records for my fintail getting a valve job when it was 10 years old, I had to give it one (along with new rings and other fun stuff) in 1997, and it needs at least an adjustment again.
A bit later, an auto carrier semi ran a red light in front of me. It had a few fairly new Benzes on it, as well as a Ford 500, and oddly, a red 2nd-gen Corvair 4-door hardtop, which looked to be in nice shape.
I also saw not one, not two, but THREE Ford Mavericks today! One was a beat-up red 4-door sedan out in a rural area, and the other two were coupes.
Yesterday I saw a white '81-86 Monte Carlo, which looked like it had taken a mild hit at the right front. Looked like it was in nice shape, otherwise. I think I might have seen this one before, but I didn't remember it having damage.
For a couple minutes, I was also behind an '85-89 Aries 4-door sedan. I also spotted an '81-84 Maxima yesterday, so it must have been 80's day.
i was curious if the chevy's were really gone or just moved over to the buick store(not).
anyways i saw a 65 seafoam green 4 door bel air for sale(probably in running condition), a 56 crown vic(fancy chrome trim dividing the front and back for the roof), an amc eagle sx4(kind of faded looking), jag xj6 which looked like the only time it will ever move again is to be hauled away.
Also, I don't think older '80s or '90s Saabs will be a future collectible like, say, early '90s Mazda Miatas or RX-7s.
-The electrics were suspect, I recall having to replace numerous switches , particularly for power windows and an A/C compressor (ouch!). These are minor annoyances compared to the agita caused by the crappy transaxles and clutches on these cars
It was always a mystery to me that even though Saab had been making FWD transaxles longer than anyone except Citroen and DKW, they couldn't get them right, at least not on the 9000.
I experienced leaking clutch slave cylinders, exploding clutch discs and bad transmission bearings, problems I've never had with most of the many manual
shift cars I've owned including our '96 900S (Opel Vectra-based).
As for becoming collectibles, that's highly doubtful since very few four-doors have much value to collectors. The Turbos are fun to drive even if they have bags of understeer and torque steer. They're great highway cruisers and superb in bad weather but the only potentially collectible Saab would likely be the 900SPG which are sought after at least by Saab fanatics.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
For the 9000s, I also recall their ignition coils burning out regularly due to poor design from oil leakage.
Actually a 900 5-door hatchback, if it had a different engine and transmission in it, (or ones that were highly modified and strengthened) would be a great car to own.
To be fair, Saab engine bottom-ends are pretty strong.
You can tell these cars will not be collectible by the paltry resale value they have right now.
Strangely, my girlfriend's renter has just such a car, only the transplant engine is an Isuzu V-6 diesel (!) He was short on details and I have only seen the car from the outside, so I don't know much about it, except that it has an automatic tranny... I think the original Saab unit.
that's kind of a neat rig, aside from the dreaded automatic. Those 5-doors are so spacious, you could move a piano in one, and they are still fun to drive. Quite a few people invest many thousands of dollars to buy an old 5-door and restore it with more modern 16V engine--even convert them from automatic to 5-speeds, with improved gear ratios (the transmission is chain and pulley driven, so you just change the pulleys, like a bicycle!). They'll spend $10K-$15K to get these "improved" 900s on the road again.
I had so much trouble with all 3 of mine. It was constant, relentless repairs on all three. Most demanding troublesome cars I ever owned, out of 100+ in my lifetime.
When I was much younger, I had a friend whose mom used to shuttle us back and forth between school, soccer practice, and the like. She had two Saab 900s- first an '82 Turbo, then an '89 900S. That was my first experience with Saabs and I can still remember my dad picking up my friend's mom from the Saab mechanics' shop on a constant basis (how about three times every two weeks?). Heck, even mid-80s Chevy Camaros (F-body) were ten times more reliable than 900s, even if they were never as well-built as Saabs.
In contrast, my other friends' parents who owned Volvo 240s never had one bit of trouble with their cars. I guess 240s are built much stronger and use more reliable mechanicals than Saabs of that era. The only complaint my Volvo-loving friends had were that the cars were just a little too slow on the highway, and most of these were not turbos.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
But if you meant *mainstream* cars sold in America, yeah, older Saabs are certainly at or near the bottom of MY list at any rate, right down there with Land Rover, Kia and (gulp) VW.
I think the newer Saabs, year 2000 on up, are much better.
As for engineering, I don't know as I would call older Saabs the "best" engineering, but certainly eccentric. Putting the engine in backwards so that the drive belts face the firewall, and putting an ignition key in the floor.....well, not my idea of the best solution.
They did pioneer turbocharging for mass-produced sedans however, so let's give them credit for that.
My favorite Saabs are the old two-strokers. I love those things.
One thing about those old Saabs was durability. Recall that they were very popular with Fin and Swede rally drivers in European rally/races in the 60's. The cars would easily survive rollovers and when righted the driver would just continue on.
The 95s and 96s had the two-stroke, then the 96 got the V-4 Taunus engine from Germany. The Saab 99 inherited what I think was originally a Triumph design, so you can predict how that turned out.
The 900 engine had a very sturdy bottom end, nearly bullet-proof, but the turbos suffered from severe head gasket maladies. The 9000 I think was a GM engine, wasn't it?
My brother has an 02 Saab 9-3 with about 150K on it which he bought new and has had almost trouble with. Go figure.
Yes the ignition in the floor is great for catching debris, jamming up and sending the Saab mechanic's children through private school.
one of my kids turned the car off while my wife was driving.
only once, though.
The few times i've driven Saabs i've really enjoyed them.
I hear so many stories about how troublesome so many European cars can be, yet these are the brands that i find most interesting...
A post. It seems like everyone disappeared.
I saw a Chevy Citation 5-Dr hatchback in a mall parking lot in WA.
I have to assume that it drove there under its own power.
It was beige, with a beige interior..
:P
Collection of compact cars
Dashing old beast, price is a little silly
Old time fender bender
Early one
I could see Shifty in this
These all survived it seems...I actually don't mind the color on it
"FAST AND FURIOUS"
Bustle
Fancy Volare
Sense of humor
Like a CHiPS flashback
Another top of the line fintail
This survived pretty well
Early slushbox survivor
It's so restrained and elegant
Lemko's next hooptie
Pope-Hartford -- I doubt even the low bid is real. This is after all a former bicycle manufacturer. Not a particularly successful car, it was only made for 10 years.