I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

A 300SE LWB fintail with sunroof is pretty much the ultimate model. Sure the air suspension will eventually give problems and the engine likes fine tuning, but it's the pinnacle of 1961 technology. I think the use of wood is also relatively modern, not in the "old drawing room" British tradition - MB has never been about that, it must be very much an English ideal over all others. The more restrained use of wood adds some warmth but isn't overpowering - the interior is still very businesslike, save for the oddball instrument cluster that still attracts attention. It's a MB, not a Jag . I think the wood in my 220SE is just about ideal - not too much, and it is real, and with a natural finish - not the laminated stuff. You had a 220SE once, right?

I think fintails are finally being appreciated a little more today. They have been embraced in Europe for some time, but I do notice more interest on them on US ebay lately. Not big money of course, but not ignored. They might not ever exceed Ponton status or desirability, but it could be worse.

Mr_Shiftright

Fintails are odd ducks I guess. Like having a big nose, it's going to keep them from becoming movie stars----oh wait, there was Barbra Streisand.... :P

I don't know what kind of wood Benz used but it seems to have come from Home Depot.

No, I had a 200Sb, not an SE. I wish it were an SE. The Solex carbs can be devils.

fintail

Fintails have 4 doors as well....that and the odd looks will keep them affordable. Not a bad thing, really....for 5K or so it's as good of a vintage European car as any. I remember when I was a kid I didn't care for them, they were just too odd. But after I bought one, I can appreciate the engineering and how advanced the car was.

The wood on most of the dash of a fintail is a very thin veneer. The glovebox door is a thicker piece, and the ashtray is heavily laminated. On my higher line W111 car, the side windows and windshield are also framed in wood, and there are wood strips on the doors. The 300SE models had more wood on the doors, and wooden door panel caps like on a British car. I don't know what type it is either.

I don't know if I'd be able to tolerate my car with those dual carbs. The old FI system is so simple if it is maintained properly. I drove it just last Sunday...it had sat for 2 weeks...first turn of the key, without pumping the gas or anything, and it fired right up. It sometimes starts a little harder when hot, but never bad enough to make one open the hood.

Mr_Shiftright

Your contact point gap has to be very precise on those cars.

andys120

Your contact point gap has to be very precise on those cars.

Oh God, gapping the points was necessary on my ''66 TR-4A every 6-8weeks. Funny thing is I haven't done it since I sold the Triumph in '71. What a frustrating, finicky detail.

Somewhere in my garage is a set of gapping tools for points and plugs.

fintail

Luckily back in 2001 I had the car converted to electronic ignition. 1% less originality for 90% more ease of use, and not very expensive either. I remember the car used to get a little cranky in damp weather or when there were significant temperature changes - the electronic ignition cured that. I haven't touched the system since it was installed.

fezo

Somewhere in my garage is a set of gapping tools for points and plugs.

Me, too. Probably everyone else in here as well....

toomanyfumes

Yeah I have the point and plug gapping thing too.. Along with a cheap clip-on sun tach to set idle speed or whatever that I'll never use and can't bear to throw out.

andys120

Who's got a Unisyn to synchronize dual carbs? I'm not sure I still have mine. :P

oregonboy

My 1972 RX-2 had three sets of points and would consistently pit them in short order. I became very adept at filing and regapping them. :sick:

And yes, I'm sure that I have at least one set of feeler gauges somewhere in the garage.

fintail

People go nuts over these, some kind of obsessed cult

As if a 59 Pontiac hearse isn't weird enough...here's a European style 59 Pontiac hearse

fintail

This is a question to any UK posters here - where is a database to find vehicle history by registration number? I have seen many people on other venues post vehicle histories, and I'd like to know where they get this info. Here's an example:

The vehicle details for DLH 900T are:

Date of Liability 01 04 1986
Date of First Registration 20 11 1978
Year of Manufacture 1978
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 1981CC
CO2 Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type Petrol
Export Marker Not Applicable
Vehicle Status Unlicensed
Vehicle Colour BLUE

merckx

I do greatly admire the Fntail, and I really like the base models of the following generation. Beijg in the same shape,do these later cars typically command a higher price?

fintail

As far as I have seen, fintails have relatively similar prices no matter the model or year. Later highline cars are worth the most due to fuel injection in 220SE+ and improved brakes from 1963 onwards, but it's not a huge difference. An early or late W110 car will be worth essentially the same money, in the same condition.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh I don't know. If I were appraising the cars, I'd give a fairly healthy premium to the SE model. Maybe 50% higher. For later 60s Benz, (without fins) you're right, it doesn't matter so much because the lower line 4-doors are not collectible at this time.

fintail

I guess I am going by what I see on ebay or in classifieds...a good original survivor with no desperate needs seems to be worth around 4-5 grand, no matter the model.

For a concours car, a highline W111/2 car will bring a bit more than a 4cyl W110, you're right. I have seen European sellers asking well north of 20K for 220SE and 300SE cars...I have yet to see that for W110s.

Are fintails considered to be low tier "collectibles" now?

guss

The '59 Pontiac hearse would make a neat ice cream truck, just put hinges on the side glass.

Mr_Shiftright

Well people can ASK whatever they want, but if you are asking top dollar, you are much more likely to get it with an SE.

I think fintails are more like "special interest" cars, which means they have a following but aren't caught up in any kind of supply and demand equation. They are collectible in the sense that any nice old 60s car is collectible. Very few 60s cars are discarded these days unless they are complete wrecks.

So yeah, if nothing else, the sheer age of the fintails gives them some collectible status.

And as 50s Benzes creep up in value, so too will the 60s cars.

Don't know about the 70s and up, though. These are Benz's "mass-production" years and so you have a lot of them out there with not that many takers.

But a clean fintail is getting hard to find.

lemko

...spotted a red Suzuki Samauri at lunchtime today.

lemko

...these aren't going to be very collectible:



I had a chance to drive one about 20 years ago. The one I looked at was a 1977 model.

andys120

these aren't going to be very collectible:

Actually I think they are and will be collectible, as well any
big 1960s-70s Mercedes.

D-B was at the top of their game in those days,
their Grossers reflected their philosophy of
executing the best-engineered,most technically advanced
and safest cars in the world
regardless of cost.

A friend of mine was a Rolls/Jag/Mercedes repair specialist.
He once gave me back-to-back rides in a mid-70s 350 SE
and a Rolls Silver Shadow. The sports car like handling
of the big Merc vs. the limo-like handling of the Roller
left me with no doubt about which was the better and more desireable car.

kyfdx

The mid-'80s version... In pretty darn good shape..

I don't think I've seen a mid-'80s Thunderbird since the late '90s!

fintail

Other than the 6.9 for masochists and maybe the late diesel cars for diesel nuts, they don't have much demand so far. As the amount of truly good cars continues to dwindle, some will be saved, but these don't seem to be attracting a lot of demand yet. Probably mainly due to the clunky gigantic US spec park-bench sized bumpers and inane emissions equipment most of the ones here were saddled with. You can still get an excellent W116 for maybe 5K.

That one in the photo, with Euro bumpers, bundts, and Euro lights with wipers, is pretty sharp. I take it that's a 6.9.

lemko

Yes. It is a 6.9. I think another thing that hurt the US-spec models was the goofy round sealed-beam headlamps in place of the Euro flush-mounted lights.

fintail

Yeah, those don't help at all. The 70s were not the high point for MB products in the US market as the DOT/EPA junk left a mark - but that's the time they really established a foothold, with the durable diesels, imposing S-class, and glamorous SLs. All with the round lights replacing the Euro lights. The diesels are the only ones that can pull off that look.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't think any 70s Benzes will be saved except perhaps a few "survivor" 6.9s and SLs. The cars are simply not worth restoring. They have similar market value to a 70s Chevy Monte Carlo of the same era.

If they aren't even remotely collectible after 30 years, --c'mon---it's not going to happen IMO.

berri

I liked the older MB's better only because I think they looked more distinctive. Being behind some of the newer models, the rear ends are so cheap looking it could be a Hyundai. I mean they don't even put trim around the rear plastic lenses on some of them despite the big sticker prices.

boomchek

Being behind some of the newer models, the rear ends are so cheap looking it could be a Hyundai

I totally agree with you.

The worst styled modern Mercedes I believe is the current ML.
To me it looks like something a Kia or even Ssangyong would design,
with odd styling lines, angles, trim pieces, and swoops.
Totally opposite of Mercedes' understated but simple and elegant lines of the past.

Mr_Shiftright

I had to remove the photo you posted....way too big for the page. You'll have to get some photo-reduction software/freeware. Thanks.

Shifty

fintail

Here's an equivalent picture, US lights and gigantic lower bumpers that can be used for extra seating:



Strangely enough, the W116 was very popular in the toy car world, with models of it being made by Matchbox, Majorette, and Tomica.

Mr_Shiftright

Probably because these were the world's taxicabs (except for the USA), so people are very familiar with them all over the globe.

boomchek

Probably because these were the world's taxicabs

These and the W123 did duty as taxis. I think the W123 are the world's most recognizable Mercedes.



I'm curious to know which model from Mercedes had the highest production figures.

I found this site here and apparently there was almost 2.7 million W123s produced.

fintail

A taxi with the gas guzzling engines most of those came with would be a bad idea!

Although I think the Matchbox version was actually made in taxi form

fintail

I suspect that's the highest production model. It was made forever, in a million variants.

fintail

Now he's providing a pic

I like this era and style/size of car, although of course the price is a side effect of hard drug use

Probably one of the better surviving examples of this

Cool Caddy in uncommon colors

"car was a at one time owned by the Central Inteligents Agency"

Royal Mopar

Big old beast with some period charm

Nice looking tires (yes, wide whites were available on MB through model year 1964)

High end fintail, wrong seats Scarily enough, those door panels are the correct material.

Another small-engined Canuck

andys120

1980 Caddy Seville-, if you're going to make ownership claims of this sort you ought to spell the prior owner's name correctly. The car looks more like it was previously owned by a Rap or Hip-hop Star.

1958 Dodge 1/2 Ton- looks like it's set up to haul one or two horses, a nice alternative to trailing them.

dodgeboy1140

Just checking to see if there are any Crossfire owners from the Fredricksburg Va. area on line

boomchek

Tucker convertible. For some reason it's hard to swallow that this is an original unfinished factory prototype. With enough money you can get panels stamped in whatever shape you want, build a tubular space frame, and claim it to be an original, especially how the write up is set up that "no records exist" because it's a top secret project.

I may be wrong but I don't think this is an investement I would make with such claims.

Wouldn't it be less expensive to buy an exisiting mint condition Tucker for $1,000,000, and (yikes) chop the top off? Let's say the conversion would cost you another $1 mill, so you're in it for $2 mill not $5 mill.

Caddy owned by Central Inteligents Agency. Did those "Gents" sell you the car?
It looks like a limo that a south american drug lord would drive in a 80s movie, that gets blown up at the end.

Mr_Shiftright

I've been called to research enough lawsuits on "claims" of this type to take them with a 55-gallon drum of salt. I research one "rare vintage race car" sold by a very prestigious auction house that turned out to have a) body tub from a newer car b) wrong engine and c) two VIN numbers on the same car.

Swell. That really worked out great for everyone.

boomchek

I guess it shows that there's a lot of people with too much money and not enough brains that either believe extraordinary claims, or just assume that everything a seller says is hunkydory.

Mr_Shiftright

Sometimes the seller actually believes what he is saying---the problem is that often it's based on hearsay, or on a bizarre form of extrapolation.

xrunner2

Mercedes sedans were driven by the bad guys in a number of James Bond movies. Did Mercedes pay for this, who knows.

fintail

MB sedans are bad guy cars in endless amounts of movies. I doubt it was officially sanctioned by MB, but I have never heard them complain about the exposure.

Mr_Shiftright

I did read that MB would not supply cars to any movie that cast the cars in a bad light.

andys120

Ronin and thinking , "That's a switch, the bad guys are driving Audi's instead of Mercs"



Citroens make great bad guy cars too>

boomchek

But in Ronin the bad/good guys also drove the Benz 6.9 SEL.

bumpy

...at the grocery store today. Had the usual early-90s clear-coat-on-the-roof-died paint splotching.

explorerx4

so what was in the case?

andre1969

while driving around, I saw a 1964 or 1965 Ford Falcon 2-door hardtop. Sort of a medium blue with a white roof. Looked like a decent daily driver. No beauty queen, but still serviceable.

I also went to the junkyard with a friend, who needed to get a new right side mirror for his truck. Unfortunately, they actually had one in the office, so we didn't get a chance to go exploring among the wrecks. Heck, that's most of the fun.

It had been so long since I'd been in a junkyard, I almost forgot about how they smell...the combination of oil and grease and other various fluids. Almost erotic! :shades:

boomchek

I don't remember actually.

I think it was a contract for Mercedes and Chrysler to become one. :P