I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

texases

80s driving experience? Like my BIL's 1988-ish Licoln Town Car, the one with the (I hope) worn out shocks? I just drove it a few miles, 'floating' all the way...

ghulet

wondering if those '80s Town Cars have 'regular' suspensions or the dreaded, troublesome (and usually sagging) air suspensions of the Mark VII/VIII and Continentals?

My dream '70s Lincoln, probably more to sit in than to drive, would be a '78 or '79 Continental sedan, dark blue, turbine wheels, matching velour interior without the 'opera windows' (would that be the Signature or Cartier Edition?).

Mr_Shiftright

I would rather crawl through shards of broken glass than ever drive one of those things again. :P

Maybe we'll have a 70s vs. 80s demo derby. Winner take all.

kyfdx

My mother had a '72 Lincoln Coupe... that I learned to drive on... Very dark metallic brown, with a white vinyl roof... very stylish.. Really, really liked that car. It was huge inside, but had a low beltline and didn't seem all that big...

She traded it for a '76 Lincoln Coupe... Sort of burgundy with a matching full vinyl roof.. With the big bumpers, higher beltline and monochromatic look, it seemed like a real tank compared to the '72, though didn't seem much different, from behind the wheel.. 460 V-8 on both cars..

Oh yeah... white leather on both of them.. :surprise:

fintail

Your mother and my mother probably would have agreed about style and fashion...my mother with her white-on-white bloated T-Bird, it too with a 460, her "poor man's Lincoln" I think my dad called it - although it wasn't exactly cheap, itself. She had it up until 1983-84 or so I think. It didn't age well...no doubt the color scheme plus a couple kids didn't help.

On the 80s theme, I saw a 79-85 Eldo convertible today - a real convertible. It has to be the same one I have seen locally in the past - can't be too many of those around.

And on the topic of 70s vs 80s...I'll pick 80s and a nice MB W126, fantastic car and arguably the best car of the era.

tjc78

wondering if those '80s Town Cars have 'regular' suspensions or the dreaded, troublesome (and usually sagging) air suspensions of the Mark VII/VIII and Continentals?

My dream '70s Lincoln, probably more to sit in than to drive, would be a '78 or '79 Continental sedan, dark blue, turbine wheels, matching velour interior without the 'opera windows' (would that be the Signature or Cartier Edition?).

The 80s Town Cars only have an optional "load leveling" system. It wasn't that troublesome. I had it on my 89 Grand Marquis and never a problem

The 78 or 79 sedans never came in a Cartier or Signature edition. The Marks did. The model you are thinking of was the 79 only Collector's series.

ghulet

That's exactly the version I was picturing. Love the little electric vent windows (what a great idea that was), and the basic reason I like the 'later' versions better is that they don't have metal trim around the back window. And of course, the inside is big and comfy enough to live in. Thanks for the picture.

Maybe the load-leveling suspension is different than the one that came on the Continentals and '80s-90s Marks, because I swear 80% of those I see lately are either sagging, not 'level' and/or clearly have been replaced (like both the Mark VII and Mark VIII for sale in the earlier pictures). Crown Vics and Grand Marquis always seemed to have held up much better, at least in re their suspensions.

tjc78

The worst model for bad air suspension is the 88+ FWD (Taurus based) Continental. The 90s Town Cars and Marks don't seem as bad.

euphonium

The 1980, 351 V8, with 22,000 miles was totaled in a parking lot & it was great.

The '82, 302 V8 lasted 12 years & 125,000 with Zero problems with the Monroe air shocks that were installed. I would manually fill them up to 110 lbs to tow the boat.

Our present '94 with factory air shocks and 147,000 is great. Never an issue with the (air) shocks.

andre1969

if my experience with big mastodons is a bit different because they've been mainly Chrysler products? With their torsion bar front suspensions and leaf springs in the back, you'd usually get a firmer ride with less float and bounce. It wasn't as capable of giving you as much of a "luxury car" ride as coil springs and such, but maybe that wasn't necessarily a bad thing? I swear, my two '79 New Yorkers feel like they bounce around less than my 2000 Park Ave Ultra!

I have a friend who used to have two 1978 Mark V's. One was a junkier, high-mileage car that had a lot of mechanical work done to it. He doesn't have it anymore, but does still have a low-mileage, pristine example. I remember riding in the back seat of the junkier one once, and it was bouncy enough that I suddenly understood how people can get sea-sick in these things. But the nicer one doesn't bounce and wallow nearly as bad, although it still feels a lot worse than any Mopar I've owned, or any of my old Pontiacs. Maybe part of the Mark V's problem is the relatively choppy wheelbase? 230" or so on a 120.4" wheelbase leaves a lot of overhang, both front and rear, so maybe that would make it pitch fore/aft more than a car with a larger wheelbase:length ratio?

As for air shocks, a guy here at work back in the 1990's had one of those Fairmont-based Continental sedans with air shocks. He bought it used, fairly cheap, in 1993, and got rid of it when the air shocks failed, in less than a year. He said it was too cost-prohibitive to fix.

Mr_Shiftright

If we observe how these big land yachts are driven, it's pretty obvious that the drivers have adapted to the car's good and bad behavior. You just don't see these cars driven "in the sporting manner", because they can't be, without the "hippo on ice" effect.

Driving down a mountain on curvy narrow two-lanes, with a semi next to you----no fun at all, take it from me. :surprise:

But along the boardwalk where I live, on a sunny day, top down, 30 mph, watching the young lads and ladies playing volleyball----priceless!

omarman

You just don't see these cars driven "in the sporting manner", because they can't be, without the "hippo on ice" effect.

Found an old link to a youtube video of guys having fun with a Grand Marquis at a racetrack. Driven in the sporting manner, it just seems to go slow but look like it's going way too fast all at the same time.

Mr_Shiftright

That car's got a little "push" as they say in NASCAR.

So you can imagine what a 70s Lincoln would look like---in the grass, mostly--or the brakes on fire.

"over--sprung and under-tired" was what we used to call it.

fintail

Spotted this morning - Volvo 1800ES and a two tone brown ca. 1981-83 Cressida.

boomchek

The worst model for bad air suspension is the 88+ FWD (Taurus based) Continental. The 90s Town Cars and Marks don't seem as bad.

You mean like this:

tjc78

Oh yeah... being a Lincoln fan this is the equivalent of the Cadillac Cimarron (ok, maybe not quite as bad). Also, just after you fix the air suspension, you can save up for the head gasket repair on the 3.8 V6 you'll need soon.

bhill2

You're bringing back traumatic memories, Shifty. Have you ever driven the 128 from the 101 out to Mendocino? I did it one time in a '78 Tbird - at night - when we were trying to make a dinner appointment. I still get flashbacks.

Mr_Shiftright

Yikes! That would be terrifying, like the crazies who drive Lemans at night at 180 mph!

Obscure Sightings At British Auto Repair shop:

Triumph GT6---once wittily described as the "world's best worst car".

Triumph Herald --the British librarian's car.

texases

Memories - my wife and I drove the 128 on a foggy night years ago, in a rental Merkur XR4ti, trying to get to our hotel. She didn't enjoy that one bit, I can't imagine how she'd have felt in a '78 TBird!

andre1969

I still remember one of the first times I saw one of those Taurus-based Continentals, out on the DC Beltway. I was riding in my '69 Dart GT with my Dad, and came up on it. At first, from the rear, I thought it was a Plymouth Acclaim or Dodge Spirit! And my Dad commented that it looked like it could fit in the trunk of my Dart!

Kinda odd, since they're really not THAT small of a car. I just looked up some stats on it, and it was on a 109.1" wb and a fairly impressive 205.1" long overall! But just something about the styling made it look more petite than it was, I guess.

How were the later 1996-ish V-8 Continentals, in comparison? I know they were still Taurus-based, but I thought they were pretty nice looking.

texases

It must have something to do with the rounded 'doughboy' styling. Who'd think the Catera was longer than a CTS? Not me, but it is (if you can find one).

boomchek

I'm reading the Sports Car Market magazines you gave me Fintail (thanks I'm enjoying them), and in a lot of the auction listings there are a couple abbreviations that I'm not sure what they mean. Maybe you or Shifty know?

They are SF and BF.

Usually they are with a number attached:

"23 bids, sf 88, bf 324, Cond: 2, SOLD At $15000."
"37 bids, sf 58, bf 83, Cond: 6, SOLD at $280"

So what does sf and bf stand for? Thanks in advance!

tjc78

How were the later 1996-ish V-8 Continentals, in comparison? I know they were still Taurus-based, but I thought they were pretty nice looking

I almost bought a one year old one before I bought my new 1998 Olds 88. It had alot of neat features like the adjustable air suspension and the dash was all electronic but looked analog.

I remember it riding like a typical Lincoln on the "soft" setting, it was quick (for it's day) and had a little torque steer having 260 HP through the front wheels.

I ended up in the Olds because it was cheaper even brand new, better gas mileage and I thought it would be more reliable.

Mr_Shiftright

That's from eBay.

SF--seller's feedback

BF--buyer's feedback

It means the number of comments made by others. A good thing to know.

boomchek

Ahh thanks. I'm familiar with ebay but not with these abbreviations in a car magazine. Thanks!

lemko

I had a coworker who bought a new white 1991 Continental. I was already familiar with some of the horror stories of these cars, but didn't want to rain on his parade as he was proudly showing off his new possession. Within the next two years he experienced the dreaded head gasket problem, a faulty transmission, and, weirdest of all, all the chrome trim on the interior was peeling with a vengeance. He soon dumped the car for a 1994 Thunderbird V-8 which turned out to be rather trouble-free. Heck, I remember around the time I bought my 1994 Cadillac DeVille, my Dad was looking at the car ads and said, "How about a Lincoln Continental?" I exclaimed, "NOOOO!!!!" My Dad was dumbfounded at my response, "What's wrong with those?" I guess he was thinking of the legendary 1960s Continentals and not the Taurus-based abomination that was the then-current car.

lemko

My wife who was then still my girlfriend wanted a Catera in "Wedgewood Blue." I'm glad she passed on it and bought an Impala instead. The Catera would've given her a very bad impression of Cadillac and she'd deem me an idiot for repeatedly buying them. The Caddy that zigs? I guess the ad exec who green-lighted that campaign is still living under a highway overpass. What a super-stupid slogan! Don't even get me started about the cartoon bird.

lemko

Air suspension was a bad idea in the 1950s and it hasn't improved much since. I recall two girls I worked with at a second part-time job who drove a late 1980s Continental Mark VII with a bad air suspension. It looked like a poorly executed low-rider. Sad thing is these girls were making nowhere near the money they'd need to fix that air suspension or have the car converted over to conventional springs.

andre1969

The real estate agent that sold my condo had one of those Continentals, now that I think back on it. It was sagging really badly in the back. It also had some customized-looking wheels that stuck out way too far, and overly-tinted windows that overall, gave the impression of something you'd see roaming the streets in the 'hood. Yet she was this sweet, petite, woman of late 50's/early 60's vintage. She looked really strange getting out of that car.

It was pretty troublesome and she finally gave up on it in late 2004, soon after my condo sold. She replaced it with, of all things, a Kia Amanti!

tjc78

I don't feel the need for air suspension either unless you carry lots of weight. My Grandfather with his 89 GM, 93 TC, 98 TC, and current 04 GM has been very lucky with the air suspensions. No trouble at all. The problems really begin when the bags start to leak you must get them replaced. If you don't the compressor constantly runs and it burns out and you have to replace that too.

fintail

The Catera was kind of a German Caprice - although it could be loaded up, it was often found in very basic form in that market and seen as a fleet car, and was also 3-4 years old by the time it arrived here. Just a bad idea from the start. And knowing how this business climate works, the suit who came up with that ad campaign probably received a corner office and a $10M bonus :sick:

The closest thing to it now is the Insignia, aka new Regal, a much better idea.

hpmctorque

I agree that the W126 was the best car of the era. I would also add that, while Mercedes has made some nice subsequent models, no other model has been as appealing, versus the competition, as the W126 in its day. My opinions, of course.

merckx

It's really a great car to drive for an afternoon...It has all the quaities one associates with the premium German sedans. It has nice,firm steering and a snubbed down suspension...very little float. My 2001 hasn't given me many problems(only 64,000 miles on the clock,though), but it's mind blowing how many problems tthese cars are known for. i can't comprehend how one fairly expensive car could have so mny,many problem areas....

ghulet

.....a '64 RHD Bentley sedan was just given away on 'The Price is Right'. Wondering what the average schmo (the guy who won it was probably 30-ish) is gonna be able to do with THAT thing. I mean, beautiful car and all, I wouldn't turn it down necessarily, but you'd definitely have to own a garage and/or have a lot of patience trying to sell it......eek. Anyone want to guess whether or not that was Drew Carey's personal car he just wanted to get rid of?

texases

I'd sure worry about what value they put on it for tax purposes - if it was too high, you could end up paying as much income tax as you might get selling it, especially if you make a few expensive repairs/maintenance :sick:

Mr_Shiftright

If you could even find anybody to buy a RHD Bentley S3 Saloon, and it was in good shape, you'd be lucky to get $15,000 for it. I'd take it, but I wouldn't drive it 5 inches, and I'd sell it as fast and cheaply as possible to the first warm body with cash.

fintail

I think I remember they gave away an 64-66 T-Bird on there a few months ago...but yeah, I'd be looking to get rid of that Bentley as soon as I could. A money pit is not a great prize. However, if it was a LHD RR SCIII, maybe it would be more tolerable...certainly worth more.

Mr_Shiftright

It'd be worth a bit more but no more tolerable. These are really difficult cars to keep up with. They break down constantly and every time it's a knee-knocking, eye-rattling repair bill.

Best thing to do with one of these is sit in it while in the garage and play music or have lunch with the kids. Some might say to use it for weddings but bottom line is you really want the bride to get there. :P

I flipped a low miles RHD Corniche coupe some years back and I'm so glad I decided not to hold onto it. It went to the UK and lost its transmission within 4000 miles. Ironically, the transmission was American.

The Germans really brought RR and Bentley back into credibility.

tjc78

Another poster on the CCBA boards has a 64 Rolls and was quoted $5100 to rebuild the power steering box. I could buy a nice old land yacht for that!

Mr_Shiftright

How about $8000 for a brake job? (assuming there are no real problems). :P

tjc78

Why is that? Are the parts that rare and expensive? Is there that much extra labor? Completely insane, IMO.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, expensive parts, and *very* complex system using Citroen patents to form a suspension/braking system that works all together, driven by hydraulic pumps run off the engine. There are not that many qualified people to work on these things, especially the older ones, so they get to charge for their expertise. There's no aftermarket, there's no online help, there's no ALLDATA.

I have a friend who works on them. He is also a trained and multi-degreed engineer and has a complete machine and fabrication shop as well, to make parts that are not available. I've seen $30,000 repair bills, and this does not include cosmetics of any kind.

To give you an idea of how grim it can get, when you contact one of the *few* sources for Bentley / Rolls parts, Tony Handler Inc, and you click on "parts", you get a page that says "Please state your parts inquiry" and they'll get back to you with a quote. I'm surprised a butler doesn't announce you......

tjc78

Thanks for the explanation!

boomchek

It was pretty troublesome and she finally gave up on it in late 2004, soon after my condo sold. She replaced it with, of all things, a Kia Amanti!

Some people have no taste when it comes to buying cars! :surprise:

Mr_Shiftright

They have lovely interiors though. I think if you bought one of the older ones that was completely gone through by the previous owner, and you religiously brought it in for service 2 or 3 times a year, and you crossed your fingers, and you had a shop you knew and trusted, you might be okay.

But it's no car for a rookie, is my point.

They are I guess a kind of grand, luxurious, clumsy sofa-like vestigial reminder of past glories of the Empire.

The new Bentleys are way cool, however.

merckx

I think the new Spur sedan is a particularly handsome car....and the convertable is also really sharp.

texases

"The new Bentleys are way cool, however."

I'd like to have heard the conversations between the German engineers when they first were brought in to look over the RR and Bentley operations. Strangers in a strange land... :surprise:

boomchek

So do you think that the newer Bentleys like the 98 and up Arnage are more reliable, or are you talking about Bentleys of the past 5 years or so?

The 98-00 Aranges can be had for around $50k already, and I always fancied one in dark green.

lemko

I kind of like it becasue it reminds me a bit of the 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS I once owned. Is the Silver Seraph decently reliable or is it so troublesome it would make a die-hard atheist fall on his knees and repent his sins?

hpmctorque

"I would also add that, while Mercedes has made some nice subsequent models, no other model has been as appealing, versus the competition, as the W126 in its day."

On second thought, I hold the W124, for its class, in the same high regard as the W126.