I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

Really, I don't think a police car needs 5 second 0-60 and 12-13 second quarter mile acceleration, with the advanced communications systems few can out run the "radio".

Yup, and that's why the majority of Mopar police cars these days are just 3.5's. The Hemi is great for bragging rights, but seriously, the 3.5 Charger does 0-60 in 8.64, the 1/4 mile in 16.68@87.27 mph, hits 100 in 22.74 seconds, makes it to 120 mph in .82 miles, and tops out at 137. That's just asking for trouble, especially when you take into account how poorly the cops are sometimes trained nowadays.

Is that 32v 4.6 V-8 the same one that was used in the Mark VIII? Didn't it have something like 290-300 hp?

Oh, here's the link to the MSP website, just in case anyone wants to check out the various test results (and also to let you know I'm not pulling these numbers out of my rear end. :P ) http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123--16274--,00.html

dieselone

Is that 32v 4.6 V-8 the same one that was used in the Mark VIII? Didn't it have something like 290-300 hp?

Well I don't know the exact roots of the 32v 4.6 used in the Marauder, the basic design probably goes back to the Mark VIII, but the Marauder's 4.6 was basically the same 4.6 used in the Mustang Bullet and Lincoln Aviator. I think it was good for around 302HP or something like that.

lemko

...I heard this was the worst police cruiser the CHP had:

Mr_Shiftright

60s American cars were geared very low, especially the muscle cars. They'd be lucky to hit 120 mph. You can have quick 0-60 or you can have high top speed--you can't have both in the same car in the 1960s. To say 60s cars are the object of continued hyperbole is an understatement.

omarman

So if that one could hit 133 mph, would it be conceivable the '69, with a 3.23:1, stronger engine, probably similar weight and aerodynamics, could make it to 147?

I really doubt it but anything is possible. I was just startled by the "147 mph" claim based on my own experiences with cars and tires and roads from that time and place.

But if anyone did drive that 1969 sedan to near 150 mph in the line of duty or otherwise then they are a real hero.

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe a 2.08 differential, running on the moon, yeah.

lemmer

Doesn't everyone know someone who says their best best friend in high school had a Chevelle with glass packs that could go 180 mph? I know many people with such claims.

andre1969

Doesn't everyone know someone who says their best best friend in high school had a Chevelle with glass packs that could go 180 mph? I know many people with such claims.

Oh I have one who was worse than that. Had a 1966 Plymouth Satellite with a 440 that he built up himself, and he put an ultra-tall ~2.00:1 axle in it, which enabled it to get up to such a high speed. He blew threw a speed trap on Route 3 in Maryland going north, but when the cops gave chase he did start slowing down. However, he was going SOOOO fast that it took him so long to slow down, that by the time he finally stopped he was just over the river into the next county. So the cop couldn't give him a ticket, but did give him a good talking to.

Yeah, I found it a little hard to believe 20 years ago, and I find it even sillier today.

I guess by his logic my old 2000 Intrepid would have topped out at 195 mph. After all, it had a ~6500 rpm redline, and at 60 was only pulling 2000 rpm. It would pull 3000 rpm @90, so it would stand to reason then, that it would do 6000 rpm @180 mph, and 6500 rpm would come up around 195 mph.

Gotta love that new math! :P

omarman

All black and well-kept but a bit loud chrome-tipped exhaust. Looked just like the 1971 Lincoln Continental Mark III on Wiki except for chrome rims.

martian

I was in the US Navy in the late 1970's-and I swear that most (if not all) of the cars I saw were AMC Matadors (or whatever the largest AMC models were). In particular, I remmeber seeing a Fleet Admiral's car (1 big stripe, three narrow stripes)-with the fringe in the rear window-what a junky car for an admiral to be riding in!
I think AMC was always the low bidder on contracts, which is why the Navy bought so many of them.

fintail

My uncle was in the Navy during that era..he actually bought a cheapo surplus car, I remember he had it when I was a very young child, maybe around 1981 or so. It was an AMC Hornet sedan, in some kind of drab grey-beige kind of color that had a definite military fleet look, blackwall tires and dog dish hubcaps of course.

fintail

Spotted a nice enough looking 77-79 Caprice wagon, and a few minutes later saw a nice looking 77-79 Caprice sport coupe, the "glass house" style. Also saw a mid 60s Beetle and a Lexus IS Sportcross.

fintail

Mr Priceyseller found another of these rare editions.I'd take it for 30K-ish out the door...but as I am not actually looking, I can make an insane price. He's way over retail either way. Looks like the interior got a dose of Armor-All or something similar...a big no-no for modern MB, so it needs to be cleaned again too.

texases

How about this, 2 years newer, for $50k?

fintail

Yeah resale of W211 E63s is falling fast now that the W212 is gaining steam. I've seen 07s for around 40K. That will continue, they will be super-sedan bargains.

I just like that certain CLS special edition, although I don't think I'd want a supercharged car...I believe MB/AMG moved away from those engines for a reason.

That E63 looks pretty nice...it apparently has the performance package, which was an $8500 option and gave it a higher limited speed and limited slip among other niceties. I think it's a fairly rare option package too. The car appears to have pretty much everything but parktronic. Would have stickered at nearly 100K when new. Too bad about the colors though...I don't know if I want another dark colored car again, it's a chore to keep it looking good.

boomchek

Are you itching to get rid of your E55? So many temptations out there!

fintail

I'm not really itching...the E55 has been as perfect as a W210 can be, it looks almost like new, it's a color that I would have to work to find again, and it drives very nicely...but I always like to see what's on the market.

So many temptations indeed, as the cars depreciate so much...C63s also catch my eye. But, they aren't free...and that's what keeps me in line. I'm getting cheaper as I get older. E55 will get new brakes in June, that expense will probably put me back in line :shades:

6 months worth of those E63 payments could pay for an awesome few week European trip too...that also helps keep me grounded.

andre1969

NASA bought a lot of Hornets and Matadors back in the 1970's, too. I remember seeing a big book that had pictures of the exteriors of all the buildings on our center, which was published in the early 1980's. Plenty AMC's parked out in front of the buildings, in the reserved gov't car spaces. In more recent years, those spots were filled with Celebrities, Achievas, and a Corsica or two. Most recently though, we've gotten a couple of Fusion hybrids. And security is driving around in a fleet of Chevy Traverses. I know there's at least 3 of them, because there was one time I saw them all at once.

martian

One of the world's (and France's) strangest marques. I think they went bust ca. 1955 or so.
Anyway, were they sold in the USA? I love the "Art Deco" look of their cars-modern and stylish-yet extravagant.
I remember seein one car-it had fender skirts on the front wheels too!
Truly a classic make-too bad it hasn't been revived.

lemko

Pardon my ignorance, but why is Armor-All bad for a modern M-B?

euphonium

The more expensive sedans have minimal leg room in the back seat. Hardly enough space for three step children you don't like.

fintail

MB recommends against glossy dash surfaces in factory literature, I think the materials are even treated to not be used with it. In the modern MB I have owned, I simply use water and a microfiber cloth, or maybe a spray of Meguiars interior detailer - which doesn't leave a residue.

fintail

Get an S-class or a 7er - plenty of room back there.

A Jag XJ on the other hand has historically been painfully tight.

boomchek

A close friend is contemplating getting an 07 750Li. It's an ex california car and is priced at around $45k here. They sold for $120k new in Canada. I told him all the usualt stuff to get it checked out, carfaxed, inspected, and not to drive away if there is any warning light lit up on the dash. It's at a used car dealer too and not a BMW store, so that's why it's priced cheaper, but also a bit risky imo. I told him to get a good 3 year warranty with it.

tjc78

or maybe a spray of Meguiars interior detailer

I just recently started using that stuff, I like it alot.

fintail

Yeah, that's a gamble, but if the car checks out and holds up, not the worst deal. Spend a few grand on a warranty for sure...if you're going in that deep, do it right.

Just be prepared for it to be worth 20K at most in another 4 years.

fintail

That stuff works nicely on buttons and switchgear too, and on the overlaminated wood found in my E55. Meguiars makes some good products.

bhill2

NASA bought a lot of Hornets and Matadors back in the 1970's, too.

I think the government in general bought AMC's a lot. In the late 70's I was working on a Department of Energy project at the Hanford Washington site trying to figure out what to do with about a bazillion gallons of liquid-ish nuclear waste. They had, I think, all AMC stuff; mostly Hornets. That is, except for the olive drab army surplus Jeeps they had for bouncing around the reservation (which was in the middle of a desert). We were given one for this purpose; referred to it as the Green Limousine. It was a lot more fun to drive than the Hornets.

fintail

Decent "Barn Find"

Mr_Shiftright

You could probably *make* an entirely new 300SL for what it would cost to restore that one!

fintail

Probably enough spare body parts in that pile to make one, too

lemko

I got some of that stuff too.

lemko

The Post Office Department bought hundreds of 1967 AMC Ambassadors as postal vehicles. They must've been the nicest postal vehicles ever.

andre1969

This got posted in my Mopar club...interesting little futuristic, sci-fi-ish story written in 1973, taking place in 1982:

http://www.mgexperience.net/article/nice-drive.html

Kinda interesting how, in a way, this story predicted a world of hulking 6000lb acronym-named vehicles that that couldn't handle or brake worth a crap, and can be a menace in the wrong hands...

Mr_Shiftright

Those cars are *so* butchered up. I'm not seein' much more than a VIN plate. Even though you have plenty of room to do a restoration, with an ultimate value of allegedly some hundreds of thousands of dollars---nonetheless, when you are done, you have a "bitsa" 300SL made up of many fabricated and/or unrelated 300SL parts, and repro parts, giving you a car that will soon acquire a reputation as a [non-permissible content removed]. Since these are are regularly tracked by VIN by collectors, it won't be able to hide what it is whenever it comes into the marketplace.

euphonium

Bringing it back from too far. :sick:

boomchek

Good story, thanks for posting it Andre. Except that it predicted things about 20 years too early.

Now we have huge SUVs at hands of people who can't drive and aren't paying attention to anytrhing around them. Plus with all the radar cruise controls and blind spot systems, some drivers don't even need to pay attention.

boomchek

Did old collector cars like these Gullwings have VIN tags on all body panels like some modern vehicles do, or can experts just tell if a part is reproduced?

lemko

...on Oxford Avenue near St. Vincent in NE Philly: gold 1967 Pontiac LeMans two-door hardtop.

fintail

But wouldn't the weird history of these cars, from the "Cuba hoard" or something, be worth something to someone, and explain that they aren't as untouched as normal cars?

I'd think there is at least a lot of parts that could be used there...look at all those gullwing doors! I bet something like that could be turned into a nice coffee table or something too :shades:

fintail

I don't believe the body panels of period MB had any kind of marking to tie them together. I think a repro panel could be spotted...but an old replacement, maybe not.

boomchek

Modern post 2000 Hondas (and other makes) have VIN tags on every body panel and all door jambs. So if a vehicle had an accident where a panel was replaced by non original, or original with different VIN, or repainted, you'd be able to tell by looking at/for the VIN tag.

Mr_Shiftright

the 300SL club has every part of every year of these cars completely documented. They could probably tell you if a 1956 model had a 1958 radio knob on it.

All bodies are stamped in various places and I think most body panels are coded as well.

Also, these are tubular space-frame cars, so anything that's been chopped is going to have to be reconstructed from scratch.

Restoring one of these cars is a formidable job.

Then you have to find an engine and trans and rebuild those. That's not cheap. You might sneak one out of a 300 sedan of that era and buy all the FI parts separately.

fintail

Yeah I think MB went that route with at least some panels starting in the 80s - I remember my W126 trunklid had a VIN tag.

boomchek

Restoring one of these cars is a formidable job.

Plus I don't think that Bob's Towing and Import Repairs can do the job.

How many restoration shops out there would actually know how to tackle a job like this? Very few I think.

explorerx4

the engine picture is a V8, maybe an SBC? wouldn't be too original in a gullwing.

Mr_Shiftright

You mean the number who CAN restore it or the number who TRY and screw it up? :P

I think any high end place could do the paintwork and upholstery but mechanical restoration or frame work needs beaucoup special tools and jigs.

I also can't imagine the cost of major trim pieces, like the front grille---I think you can part out a 190SL for one of those actually.

fintail

I noticed that too...too many wires in that engine. I wonder what it is running, probably an old Chevy 348 or something from the period. That might be another problem with those cars, having been in Cuba means they were repaired with whatever was available, being correct was not an option. A similar thing happened to the cars stolen from Europe by the Soviets and pressed into service there...they have lots of weird fixes and updates.

Mr_Shiftright

Old story. Americans get all hot about "valuable classics" that are "preserved" in Cuba, and then they go there and are totally appalled at the cars and what happened to them.

The fixes are ingenious although not elegant, but there was no restraint for the sake of history. These cars were being used for everyday work.

kyfdx

Old Mustang... with vinyl roof... somewhere in the '71-73 range..

'60s era VW bus/camper... had the louvered windows on the sides..