I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

I'd restore the fintail before I did any of that. At least that way I'd get something cool after I went broke.

stickguy

screw the restore. Resto mod that bad boy. Keep the body stock, upgrade brakes/suspension, and swap in a modern drive train (can keep with the straight 6 even).

Probably cost about the same, but you would actually end up with something interesting, and potentially usable!

i see no problem with it since what you have is really just an old car, not anything particularly collectible (other than to you for sentimental value).

fintail

It's already not bad in terms of brakes and suspension - it was a very advanced car for the day. The old I6 isn't the fastest thing, but it's not bad either. It keeps up with modern traffic.

If I was going to resto-mod it, I'd go all out and put some kind of AMG unit in it - but the prices would start exploding with that. The car and engine are also pretty light, so I would need to watch the weight too.

fintail

Just drove by my window - 61 Mercury 4 door HT, black, looked like a nice original car. How many of those can be left?

Mr_Shiftright

Monterey hardtop, 1961? They only made about 9,200 of those, give or take, and with say an estimate 10% survival rate (optimistically), that's not many left...and if we exclude non-running and beaters, probably 200.

explorerx4

a Fintail fintail in the background.

fintail

Looks almost like the ebay one I posted in the other thread. Similar if not same color, same W110 (2 headlights) platform.

bhill2

Looks almost like the ebay one I posted in the other thread.

The same thing struck me. I actually looked at that one again just to check, but they are in different places.

uplanderguy

Gold '77 Caprice Classic sedan, nice paint, sitting evenly at all four corners, clean whitewalls, correct factory wheelcovers, spewing just a little bit of white exhaust on this cold day, and taking smartly off down the road after stopping at the stop sign right outside our house.

I always liked those cars. Super quiet, good mileage, roomy, and styling I think has stood the test of time.

texases

Followed a 944 into work this morning, 'Guards Red', looked to be in great shape. For some reason that combination will catch my eye every time, has since it first came out, almost bought one back then. And I've never found the 924 interesting. Amazing what some fender flares will do!

au1994

Amazing what some fender flares will do

and a better engine!

texases

Better engine, absolutely! But there are a handful of cars whose looks just grab (or grabbed) me. The 944 is one.

Mr_Shiftright

If the 944 is set up right, and is a turbo, and in the hands of a skilled driver, it will STILL give a 911 fits on a road course. Excellent braking and handling, really outstanding, even by modern measures.

fintail

Yeah, I bet that survival rate is very generous - IIRC early 60s Fords could rust pretty harshly.

With my old car, I know ~65K 220SEs were made from 1959-65. I don't know how many came to the US, maybe 30-40%? But they rust hard too, and they are stodgy sedans which are expensive to fix...roadworthy ones can't be too common anymore.

fintail

This morning in the rain saw a W126 300SE, an early 70s 911T, and a split bumper Camaro.

Mr_Shiftright

There does, however, seem to be a trend toward collecting and saving 4-door cars now, because they are affordable entry-level vehicles into the hobby and because you can carry people around in them comfortably.

fintail

And original cars too, due to the cost of restoration and the charm of patina. I don't mind...maybe someday a nice driver fintail will be worth more than 4-5K.

Mr_Shiftright

Well they will follow the Ponton pattern eventually.

berri

I think 4 doors and wagons kind of take us older guys back to being kids because that's what we actually tended to grow up in. Some of those 4 doord are decent looking as well, although I'm not so sure I could love the 61 Merc (both its styling and the fact that they became gussied up Ford's again that year).

bhill2

I think 4 doors and wagons kind of take us older guys back to being kids because that's what we actually tended to grow up in.

I think that's part of it. But I have to admit that there are some cars where I prefer the looks of the 4-door hardtop to the 2-door equivalent. A perfect example is the '59 Chevy, but I feel that way about most of the early GM products.

berri

I love those flat tops! They just seemed so modern and space age when they came out when I was young. I also thought the 55-56 GM 4 dr HT were exceptionally nicely done.

andre1969

I've always had a thing for 4-door hardtops. Only one I ever owned was a beat-on 1969 Bonneville that one of my cousins put through hell and back, before I bought it for $400, back in 1992. Piece of junk, to be honest, but I still miss that beast.

fintail

So, worth barely more? And W108s and family are worth even less.

Mr_Shiftright

yes, like that---the Pontons worth the most, then the fintails, then the W108s and 9s. (we're talking sedans I mean, not 6.3s or coupes necessarily--well there are no fintail coupes--no real ones I mean).

Someone should photoshop a fintail convertible. I have a friend who does this, so let me ask him. I guess he would model it after a 300b cabriolet B from the early 1950s.

fintail

I guess the old styling helps the Ponton.

There was that W112 300SE coupe I posted not long ago that some nut in Germany converted to a fintail - a cabrio would be like that.

lemko

I had a 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille four dour hardtop. It was awesome riding around in the summer with all four windows down and no pillar blocking my view. One benefit to a bad '70s fad was the large opera window cut into the huge blind C-pillar the 1971-73 Cadillac had. Visibility was greatly increased.

tjc78

Yesterday I saw a pristine, showroom looking 86ish Chrysler Fifth Ave in a really nice shade of blue and an 85 Pontiac Grand Prix also in pretty nice shape. I don't know why, but the Regal of the same vintage IMHO was much better looking.

andre1969

and an 85 Pontiac Grand Prix also in pretty nice shape. I don't know why, but the Regal of the same vintage IMHO was much better looking.

Personally, I like it alot, but in general, that '81 restyle of the Grand Prix wasn't all that well-received. I remember some auto reviewer (might have been in one of my Consumer Guide auto encyclopedias) called it a confusing jumble of aero-modern and traditional-American.

The Regal was cleaner, and more upscale looking, and would get even better, IMO, for 1985, when that shovel-grille was replaced by a sleeker, more integrated one.

tjc78

I have always liked those Regals. There were a few of them in my family growing up. My Uncle had an 86 burgundy over burgundy Limited that I just loved. It was a V8 so I guess it was the Olds 307 by that time. Someone also had an older beige one, that was pretty beat up but kept on going.

lemko

I thought both the Olds Cutlass Supreme and Buick Regal coupes were beautiful. The Pontiac Grand Prix not so much, and those Grand Prix and Monte Carlos with the Baracuda-like rear windows were just plain weird.

andre1969

Yeah, that would be the Olds 307. I think Buick dropped V-8's entirely from the Regal lineup after 1980, with the exception of the Olds Diesel. For '81, I think they only had the 3.8, 4.1, or 3.8 turbo. I think it was 1985 that they finally brought back V-8 power, with the Olds 307.

For a few months, I had possession of my Mom's '86 Monte Carlo, which had a Chevy 305. Seemed a good balance of power and economy in a car that size. I'm sure the 307 was similar.

The only thing I never liked about the Regal was its strip speedometer, with those big numbers that seemed designed with Mr. Magoo in mind. But other than that, I thought it was a tastefully done car, both inside and out.

uplanderguy

I didn't like how the Regal instrument panel looked squarer/blockier than the other GM's like it. Outside, it was beautiful, stem-to-stern, I think.

I liked the '86 and later Monte Carlo LS, with the black-trimmed instrument panel, no body side moldings (too close to the lower bright trim IMHO), 305 V8, and those 'checkerboard' aluminum wheels. Never saw too many though. I had new '81 and '82 Montes, my parents had new '80 and '84 Montes (I loved their '84 with 305-4bbl.), and I put a deposit on a new '85 SS but decided I didn't want it and ordered a Celebrity Eurosport instead. In hindsight, some of the Monte SS decals, etc., looked kind-of Romper Room.

The Grand Prix I think had the best instrument panel of all four.

I think I liked the Cutlass Supreme the least of all four, overall.

ab348

I never cared for any iteration of that generation Monte Carlo. The styling never seemed to work right and the dash was too Malibu-ish. I disliked the black trim then and now (today it's called "piano black") as just too obviously plastic.

I don't think the Regal had a strip speedo. The IP had 3 square binnacles in front of the driver.

The GP was the only one of the 4 to divert significantly from the GM modular dash design in these cars. It had a much larger/wider IP section that included air vents and gage housings that the other brands did not have.

The Cutlass was to me almost as good-looking on the outside as the Regal. Its interior was a bit more generic and the controls were a bit delicate-looking, but within the confines of the corporate design they were forced to work with, it was fine.

andre1969

I don't think the Regal had a strip speedo. The IP had 3 square binnacles in front of the driver.

I think in 1978, when the downsized Regal/Century first came out, they had the three square cutouts. IIRC, didn't they have a silver background that made them harder to read?

At some point though, the Regal did go to a strip speedometer, with a small fuel gauge mounted below it. Not sure what year the change was made, but here's an '84.

fintail

That steering wheel and dash really says "grandma and grandpa" to me, somehow :shades:

andre1969

I actually like it, with the exception of that speedometer. One thing that I hated about all of those downsized GM intermediates though, was the position of the radio and climate controls, mounted low above the transmission hump. I think it looks okay, but unfortunately it robs a lot of room from the center spot of the front seat.

If, 3 across comfort is a big deal to you, I guess. Probably isn't, to most people.

fintail

That dash just kind of reminds me of a period Olds my grandma had, and style I associate with the "Golden Girls" crowd. But the Olds was different - steering wheel with the center hub and low bar across, plush semi-velvet velour.

ab348

Yeah, and that Olds steering wheel design was used on a lot of their cars in the '80s and seemed to be one of the few things that GM corporate allowed the divisions to have to distinguish themselves. In the case of Olds, it was that rather ugly steering wheel.

On the Regal IP: I found evidence that they still used the 3-square design with silver faces through '81. It must have changed in '82 or '83.

Our family's '78 Grand Lemans had silver-faced instruments. They looked really great, especially at night. But they were awful to read, especially at night. I think they switched to white on black the next year, but Buick held out longer. My '79 Park Avenue had silver faced instruments and they seemed OK, better than I remember the Pontiac as being. I loved this IP design:

fintail

This is what I remember of the Olds, the wheel with the flat bottom spokes. IIRC the 86 Seville and maybe Eldo also had a similar wheel. Odd looking:



The silver gauges in that Pontiac must have tried to look precise or something...different. Huge clock too.

fintail

Oddballs today - 240Z in weathered survivor condition, orange Vega wagon with railroad tie bumpers - so 74 or after I guess, and a 63 Dart/Valiant 2 door post that looked really clean.

berri

Boy, those dashboard pix put it in perspective. I thought the full sized late 70's early 80's big Buicks and Pontiacs were the classiest lookers, but for some reason, the Olds 88 with that cheapo strip speedometer seemed to outsell them. Maybe the strip was easier on the old geaser eyes than the round speedo on the Buick and the square one on the big Pontiac - just kidding!

fintail

I think the Ciera also had a long strip speedometer. Must have been for people with "older" tastes...I remember my 66 Galaxie had a strip speedometer too.

uplanderguy

I also liked the '83-85 Monte Carlo instrument panel, when they replaced the '82's shiny, bright, knotty-looking plastic woodgrain, chrome surrounds and red-background "Monte Carlo" nameplate, with dark, non-shiny plastic wood, gold surrounds, and gold background on the nameplate. In '85 they took the look too far IMO when they replaced the chromed glove compartment knob with black plastic though.

lemko

I had a 1979 Buick Park Avenue with the 403 V-8! The dashboard was gray and the seats were "Oyster" leather - a very light gray that looks white. I loved those silver instruments! It made the instrument panel look really upscale. My car way Charcoal Gray Firemist with a silver top and the 15" Buick factory chrome wheels. Good God, I miss that car! I totalled it in an accident one rainy night when the car spun out from under me and hit a utility pole.

tjc78

That does sound like a really nice color combo. I wouldn't throw it out of my driveway!

uplanderguy

Lemko, I think the big Buick instrument panels of '77 and later were by far the best of the big GM's...even Cadillac. I clearly remember "Oyster" being introduced as a '79 interior color...very plush. I seem to remember it lasting into '80, then disappearing...sigh.

fintail

I remember my friend's 83 Monte had an inoffensive interior. His 85 SS was/is black with red interior, so any black plastic would blend in with the look of the car. The main issue with those cars, IMO, was build quality - the frameless doors caused perception issues, especially when closing with the window down.

andre1969

Lemko, I think the big Buick instrument panels of '77 and later were by far the best of the big GM's...even Cadillac.

I think it looked good, but it had its flaws. First, as far as I know, at least, you could never get any sort of optional instrumentation on it. You got a speedo, fuel gauge, and idiot lights for everything else. I also never liked that clock mounted on the passenger side. By 1985, when my grandmother got her LeSabre, the clock was digital and incorporated into the radio, so the overall look was cleaner, IMO. And the gauges went to a black face, which I thought looked better.

Another problem was that the glovebox was really tiny. On the plus side, the padding was made out of a high-quality material that almost looked leather-like, and never cracked. I don't know if they started off using that material in '77, or if they switched at some point. I've seen it used on some other cars as well. Mopar's '79-81 R-bodies used a similar material, and think the Grand Prix might have, as well. Chevies tended to use the stuff that cracked easily. I think my '82 Cutlass Supreme also had the nicer padding. At least, I don't remember it cracking. My '80 Malibu and '86 Monte both cracked, though.

I think my favorite of those GM B-body dashes is the Pontiac. It had a place for optional gauges, and a decent sized glovebox. And I liked the way they blended the HVAC ducts into the blackout trim. I remember the Olds dash offered a gauge package with temp, oil pressure, and amps, but the gauges were mounted down low, well below the strip speedometer. And with Chevy, I've seen packages where you'd get temp and amps, or temp and a vacuum "fuel economy" gauge, but I don't think I've ever seen a package where they gave you temp, amps, and oil pressure. Even on copcars, I think the oil pressure gauge was an obvious add-on. For 1991 though, I think you could finally get a proper oil pressure gauge.

I think the Buick dash is my second favorite, though. While it does have its flaws, I think it scores high for looks.

uplanderguy

After the Buick, I like the Caprice dash best, next (although hate the Impala dash). I like that gloss black panel outlined in gold pinstripe above the glovebox. The glovebox on those cars was really tiny, too. You're right, even the optional gauges on the Caprice weren't very much as far as information goes.

About the A-bodies, I do think the Grand Prix and LeMans had the best dashes, but I will say, on the Chevy and Buick, where the area above the radio and climate control controls were located was pushed back towards the windshield, you do get an aura of spaciousness, even though it's wasted space.

ab348

My '79 Park Avenue had the 403 as well. Great car, though big - enormous by today's standards.

One thing about the dash design was that at night, not only did you have the clock illuminated over on the passenger side, adding some light to an area that usually is a black hole, but you also had some little floodlights under the top edge of the padding that washed the entire dash with gentle light.

I also owned a '78 Olds Delta and the dash design of that was totally in the opposite direction, almost haphazard in design. Aside from the strip speedo, you had the cruise switch on the dash near the center of the car, next to the rear defog switch. The plastic wood looked pretty cheap and it was a decal that did not age well.

I have a gage setup for one of those in a box in my basement somewhere.